Just got back from seeing this movie, and I think it will probably end up going into my top 5 movies of all time. Excellent storyline, acting, and action sequences, and the direction and setting were superb as well. One of Tom Cruise's best acting jobs. I was choked up for the last half hour or so, very intense. I definitely recommend it.

Any thoughts?

Tom Cruise is the only thing stoping me from really wanting to see it.

Never understood not looking past the actor, just accepting the character and enjoying a movie. People always have to judge the movie before it's even done. I try not to think about the movie until I have seen the whole movie, and then when it's done, I decide if I liked it. Spend too much time in the theater hating an actor in the film (not the character, the actor) or nitpicking at things, and whatdya know, you missed something important or you didn't get the full impact.

But then I have found I am in the minority in my ability to just ignore it and enjoy the sensory output and storyline of the movie. C'est la vie.

As for the Last Samurai, I read it is a shameless combination of at least three Best of the Year Films in the past decade or so (my guess, Dances With Wolves, Braveheart and Gladiator), but that it does pull it off very well. I'll probably catch this some time this weekend.

CR

Originally posted by Chief Rum
As for the Last Samurai, I read it is a shameless combination of at least three Best of the Year Films in the past decade or so (my guess, Dances With Wolves, Braveheart and Gladiator), but that it does pull it off very well. I'll probably catch this some time this weekend.

CR

This would tend to be an accurate description, but by no means does it feel like a knockoff.

I know what you mean CR, but form some reason I always "Type Cast" Cruise. I don't know why but for some reason it seems to stick out to me.

That may just be a quirk you have with Cruise, I guess. Not much you can do about that.

I hate Meryl Streep. It's hard for me to look past her to the character she is trying to play. I need other stuff to occupy my mind so that I can ignore her. Fortunately, she is usually ion movies I don't have any desire to see (i.e. chick flicks).

Last Is aw with her in it was Adaptation, and there was a lot of other stuff going for that movie so that I could generally ignore her being in it. :)

Too bad about you and Cruise. The guy picks some good movies to be in.

CR

I also enjoyed this movie, it wasn't that predictable either which I liked

I guess I would have to consider myself a Tom Cruise fan. I mean come on. Legend, Rainman, Far and Away, A Few Good Men, Cocktail, Minority Report. I really like all of these movies. Looking forward to seeing his newest.

Originally posted by FargoFreez aka fof playa
I guess I would have to consider myself a Tom Cruise fan. I mean come on. Legend, Rainman, Far and Away, A Few Good Men, Cocktail, Minority Report. I really like all of these movies. Looking forward to seeing his newest.

L. Ron Hubbard called. He said the alien overlords are very pleased with you.

Saw it. Loved it.

I like Tom Cruise

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
I lick Tom Cruise

:eek:

I am not a huge Tom Cruise fan but I do give him credit for trying a lot of different roles and characters. Sometimes he bombs but there are a lot of times he does pretty good in my opinion.

Denzel Washington and Tom Hanks are my favorites in that aspect.

Tom Cruise annoys me because he has shown in films like 'Magnolia' that he really can act but then he never follows it up and just makes popcorn film after popcorn film. Of course I'm sure that he gets paid heaps of money but then, exactly how much more money can he ever need?

He really can act, dammit he just needs to take more risks with the roles that he takes...

Until recently, I assumed I was gay. I like most Tom Cruise movies. I like Brad Pitt movies. But I was really constipated and when it finally came out it hurt bad. I am over that now.

I just saw this tonight. Very good movie, maybe the best I have seen yet this year (although I am hoping ROTK is even better, of course).

Sure, it had the spirit of movies like Gladiator, Braveheart and Dances With Wolves in it, so it wasn't entirely original. But I think this movie stands on its own very well, with its own feel.

The battle scenes are terrific, and some of the individual fight stuff is great, too. It's also very emotional at times (emotional done in the right way, IMO, not overly sappy).

I highly recommend checking this one out.

CR

Dear God, am I the only one here who thought this was a terrible movie?

It was flawed but OK leading up to the final scenes, but they so blew it there that the movie lost all credibility with me.

Pretty good action/combat sequences, some good acting (more by Ken Watanabe, Cruise isn't too annoying), but some really contrived bits to propel the story along and one of the worst endings I've ever seen.

I won't reveal the end to those that may wish to see the movie, but I can't believe that those that have already posted didn't find it absurd.

Believe it. Not everyone thinks like you. :)

To each their own. I thought it was pretty darn good.

CR

Originally posted by Chief Rum
(although I am hoping ROTK is even better, of course).Are. You. Saying. There. Is. Going. To. Be. An. ROTK. Movie?

Don't kid because I'm a fatman and my heart can't take that. :D

Originally posted by Chief Rum
Believe it. Not everyone thinks like you. :)

To each their own. I thought it was pretty darn good.

CR

The end didn't bother you at all?

I don't expect that everyone will agree with my opinion - I'm just a little surprised that I'm the first one to say it wasn't good. I'd be curious to see what QS thinks - he and I tend to have similar taste in movies from what I've seen...

I'm guessing QS would say "$35", but that's just an estimate. :D

Originally posted by Bee
I'm guessing QS would say "$35", but that's just an estimate. :D
LOL

Definitely not 2/3...

Originally posted by FargoFreez aka fof playa
I guess I would have to consider myself a Tom Cruise fan. I mean come on. Legend, Rainman, Far and Away, A Few Good Men, Cocktail, Minority Report. I really like all of these movies. Looking forward to seeing his newest.

Call yourself a Tom Cruise fan? How can you list Cruise's best movies and not mention Top Gun? Pathetic. Shame on you! Shame!

I have not seen this move yet, but I want to. Maybe this weekend.

Originally posted by FargoFreez aka fof playa
I guess I would have to consider myself a Tom Cruise fan. I mean come on. Legend, Rainman, Far and Away, A Few Good Men, Cocktail, Minority Report. I really like all of these movies. Looking forward to seeing his newest.

COCKTAIL?!?!? Good God man, I had to sneak this video out via a yard sale under my wife's nose and pretend like we had lost it. Yuck yuck yuck.

Originally posted by dawgfan
The end didn't bother you at all?

I don't expect that everyone will agree with my opinion - I'm just a little surprised that I'm the first one to say it wasn't good. I'd be curious to see what QS thinks - he and I tend to have similar taste in movies from what I've seen...

It's difficult for me to respond about questions regarding the ending because I'm not entirely sure how you felt about it. You didn't really get more specific except to say you didn't like it.

SPOILERS!!!

READ THE FOLLOWING AT YOUR OWN RISK IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE!

I thought most fo the ending fit well within the context of the movie. Looking back on it, I see a lot of "Hollywood-izing"-- Cruise lives, the "legend-making" with the voice over at the end, Cruise being allowed to appear before the Emperor alive after bearing arms against him, the Emperor finally accepting Cruise's words at the end, when he refused to listen (or have the strength to follow his convictions) to Katsumoto on a number of occasions.

In the end, that brings down the quality of the end a bit.

That said, when I was in the theater, I thought that it felt right. We knew the samurai didn't make it--after all, you don't see samurai walking around now, and there weren't any during the World Wars either. Hell, the movie title lets us know how this one ends--"The LAST Samurai". :) So how it ends on battle field, I wasn't surprised. I could also look at the machine gun ending it as a symbol of modern technology overcoming past tradition, and seeing that as sad (a message the Emperor later openly states in his response to Allgran near the end). Katsumoto also died as he wanted to die, with honor on the field of battle, and given an honorable death as the price for the shame of defeat. It is also fitting that Cruise lived--as he said earlier, he's not a samurai or Japanese.

I thought the ending battle scene was very emotional and well done. I won't argue with you if you think that should have been the end of the movie right there. I will admit that I kinbda wanted Katsumoto to be shoving a sword into Allgren's gut at the same time. Dyting together as samurai (regardless of Cruise's background) would have been entirely appropriate there.

I won't bag on the film for taking the opportunity to show that the Emperor learned something from those actions of the samurai, or that Omura needed to be put down in some way, though. I don't know if that makes for a realistic ending, but it certainyl makes for a more satisfying one. If I want a history lesson, I'll watch the History Channel. ;) In the theater I want to be entertained, and I was.

CR

I knew the name of an alcoholic drink wasn't the title of the movie where Tom Cruise was a fighter pilot. Gosh, how'd I screw up that one?

Errrrrr...okay, so I'm pretty much defenseless here. Though I do have a thing for Elisabeth Shue.

SPOILERS!

Here are my problems with the movie:

- From the start, this was a by-the-numbers hollywood movie with not much subtlety to the story. Every element to the story was predictable, and much of the movie borrowed liberally from previous films. About halfway through the movie I was thinking of it as "Dances with Sushi".

- The 'bad guys' in the film - the Japanese rail baron pushing for a modernized Japanese army and society, the American military leader with no morals - had no real depth; they were cardboard characters.

- The special effects I thought were rather crude given the current state of the art. Probably not a big deal to a lot of people, but my buddy that saw the film with me and knows very little about computer graphics saw the same things I did (I'm a 3D animator with great familiarity with how CGI works): poorly done matte paintings, unconvincing composite shots incorporating real footage with CGI backgrounds, the stitching scene where the outline of the plastic prosthesis wound was clearly visible, etc.

- The sequence that put Cruise in the hands of the samurai was hard to swallow. Could there have been any worse a strategy for the novice modern Japanese army to confront the renegade samurai than to start the engagement in the middle of a forest with poor visibility exacerbated by foggy conditions? This completely undermined the concept that Cruise and his superior were worth hiring to improve the Japanese military - at the least it made them look stupid. To top it off, you had Cruise fighting off multiple samurai with extremely skillful hand to hand combat, beating these samurai at their own game. Skill with a gun I can understand, skill with a blade to a certain extent, but he looked like a martial arts master.

Even with all that, I was prepared to moderately enjoy the movie until the last few scenes. The battle sequences were well done, right up there with Braveheart and Two Towers. Then came the final scenes:

- Despite multiple gunfire wounds and savage blows suffered at the hands of their enemies, Cruise and Watanabe charge into a gauntlet of gatling gun fire, taking many more hits. Watanabe and Cruise are finally knocked off their horses, and despite no orders from their superiors the Japanese army ceases firing on them as they lay on the ground. Watanabe at least honors his philosophies by having Cruise assist him in committing seppuku on the battlefield. Seeing this, the Japanese army then refuses orders from the rail baron/general to fire on Cruise, and instead they all bow toward him.

- Next thing we see is the Emporer about to sign a treaty with the Americans. In comes Cruise, limping slightly to deliver Watanabe's sword to the Emporer, a former student of Watanabe. The rail baron looks surprised, but doesn't have his men force Cruise out of the room. Then Cruise delivers the incredibly cheesy line to the Emporer, regarding his question about Watanabe ("Tell me how he died?"): "I'll tell you how he lived!" Ah yes, right - the westerner Cruise is going to tell the Emporer, a former student of Watanabe, how the samurai lived. So what was the deal here - did the Japanese army just walk off and leave their enemy Cruise there in the battlefield? Did they bring him back with them and nurse him to health? Did they not keep him under lock and key to prevent him from interfering with their business?

- Last thing we see is Cruise returning to the samurai village, where it's implied that he will be welcomed back and consumate his relationship with the beautiful widow of the samurai he killed. Ah yes, I'm sure this samurai village will welcome the westerner back with open arms, the only survivor of their village who were fighting for their freedom. Where is the giri, the honor? Everyone else died fighting for what they believed in or commited suicide in shame of defeat, but here comes the foreigner back to the village. Cruise had shown enough honor and understanding of their culture in his 6 months of captivity that the widow sends him off in her dead husband's samurai armor, and here he returns as the only survivor?

This to me completely ruined the whole movie. It was tenuous for me up to this point anyway, but such a complete betrayal to what the spirit of the movie was and such a blatant pandering to "hollywood ending" ethos was intolerable. Had Cruise died on the battle field, it would've been different - he'd have had his redemption and he would've honored the culture he'd come to understand and respect. But no, instead we had to have a bullshit happy ending that just screamed hollwood producer interference and/or test screening revision.

SPOLIERS!

See, you're doing exactly what I am not capable of. Judging a movie even as you watch it, watching for flaws without looking at the whole thing.

I never understood that approach. Maybe I am just less discerning than others. I go into a movie to be entertained. I don't look for flaws. I watch the story unfold, enjoy the sensory experience of the movie, and then after it's all done, I look back and ask myself if I had a good time watching that film. That is how I judge a film. And on that scale, I think most people will be plenty entertained. I also think most people view movies this way.

There are few films that can't be torn apart in much the same way you did above. I agree with most of what you put up there (although your memory is fuzzy on the last battle scene--the guns stopped firing because the second in command under Omura defied his superior by ordering the guns to stop).

I'm not saying your approach to movie watching is wrong, but I am simply not capable of it. And I don't want to be. I would much rather enjoy something for what it gives me and in its entirety, than to pick at flaws and judge it even as I am supposed to be experiencing it.

I cared about the characters. I enjoyed the story. The acting and well-crafted emotional scenes and exciting battle scenes make the whole movie, plot holes be damned. :) SO by my thinking, the movie makers on this one did a pretty good job.

I'm not going to tell you how to watch a movie. I don't know that my way is any better than anyone else's. But my suspicion is that you are very harsh on movies. And I would recommend you give shutting off the brain a try in a movie and just enjoy the experience. I think you will find you have a much more enjoyable time at the theater. Of course, that might not be possible--some things just can't be shut off. But I highly recommend it.

CR

I think what you're talking about is the ability to suspend disbelief - the willingness to take a movie at face value and go along for the ride. In addition to this is the fact that most people carry some level of expectation into a movie - if they know something about it, from positive to negative, it will usually impact the impression they have in watching the movie. If a person carries high expectations into a movie, the viewer is more liable to feel let down, while those watching with low expectations are more apt to be pleasantly surprised.

I have no problem watching movies and suspending disbelief. You are correct that many movies have plot holes and flaws that under vigorous examination don't hold up well. Still, if the vision of the movie is executed successfully, I usually don't mind the flaws so much. Gladiator was a great example of this for me - it was also a very hollywood-esque movie with a story line that had flaws, but it worked for me. The movie had a lot of things working for it - beautiful cinematography, a consistent, epic vision and direction with that hadn't been seen in hollywood in years and a command-the-screen performance from Russell Crowe. If I wanted to poke holes in it I could, but the movie succeed in that I bought into the vision. I think it's a great movie. The Last Samurai could've been that kind of movie for me, but it had too many flaws for me to ever fully buy into it. The ending (to me) was so bad that it turned it from a moderately enjoyable movie into a really bad one.

I enjoy movies immensely, and I don't go into a movie looking for flaws. If however there are obvious flaws in the movie, I can't help but notice them, especially if the vision of the movie isn't winning me over. While I love movies, I don't love them indiscriminately - if I'm watching a bad film (IMO) I'm not going to try and fool myself into thinking it's good.

What surprised me about this thread isn't that there were people that enjoyed the movie - it was that EVERYONE that had posted thus far enjoyed it. My friend and I both thought it was bad, and most of the reviews I've read have tabbed it as mediocre, with many of them citing the same things I have as the reasons why the movie didn't work or wasn't better. I guess I wasn't expecting that I'd be the only one to post here who didn't like it.

I certainly respect why enjoyed the film, and that's great - as the saying goes, your milage may vary. It just didn't work for me.

I would agree that I didn't care too much for the ending. It was pretty Hollywood formula. I also don't forsee any cinematography Oscars I actually cracked up when they showed the boat sailing into Okinawa harbor. I haven't seen such horrible, well whatever it is called when an actor is superimposed in front of a false background, since some of the crap in Hoffa. I think they should be embarrassed by those scenes, and should just have started the Japan portion of the movie upon disembarking from the ship. I too thought it was funny that a guy who could kill several sword wielding Samurai, armed only with a makeshift spear, would later be unable to defend himself against a guy with a wooden stick. Then again, he was drunk at the time so I guess it could be argued that the bottle helped him assume the clarity of mind he later found through the ways of the Samurai. Something else that should have bothered me more, but I have apparently become numb to, is the portrayal of the U.S. Cavalry as evil, heartless indian murderers. He also pretty much calls Custer an arrogant fool. Arrogant probably can't be argued, but the fool part is pretty much contradictory to a pretty distinguished career. Custer knew his enemy, He just didn't know there were so many of them.


Oh all in all, I'd have to say I did enjoy the movie. Ken Watanabe(sp?) was fantastic, and I didn't really let the Hollywood happy ending diminish a pretty solid two plus hours of entertainment.

Originally posted by Glengoyne
Oh all in all, I'd have to say I did enjoy the movie. Ken Watanabe(sp?) was fantastic, and I didn't really let the Hollywood happy ending diminish a pretty solid two plus hours of entertainment.

I think the above sentence by Glengoyne suits my view of the movie to a tee. I saw problems with the ending, too (as I intimated earlier), and that gave me a vague sense of disappointment with the ending. But I also felt like the end was just extra scenes after the real ending, on the battlefield. The only reason I saw for the ending beyond that was wrapping up loosing ends (showing the Emperor coming to understand the importance of the ways of the samurai, dealing with Omura, provding an end for Cruise, even if unsatisfactory).

All that couldn't take away from the fact that I had seen some pretty thrilling battles and sword fights and seen some very emotional and powerful scenes, and that the story made me care for what happened to the characters and appreciate the people in that village (including Cruise), authentic samurai reconstucrion or not.

dawgfan, you are essentially right that I am talking about suspension of disblief, and I am glad you feel you can do that with most movies. I think it would be a shame if you weren't able to enjoy movies as I do.

I enjoyed The Gladiator a lot as well. I know you'll disagree, but I would put Gladiator on par with The Last Samurai (or vice versa, whatever). I don't think Gladiator was best picture worthy (and I'm not sure Last Samurai is either, regardelss of ROTK being out there), but Gladiator won in a relatively weak year for Hollywood. My opinion of that, though, didn't take away from the fact that I was very impressed with how they did the Roman army and the gladiator fights, and that I enjoyed the acting all around (really, all the main people, Crowe, Phoenix, Nielsen, the guy who played Aurelius, the fellow gladiators, Holm as the senator--I thought they all did exceptional work), and I loved the underlying revenge story and the end (despite the "downer" ending).

I seem to be even less discerning then you and Glengoyne, though. For instance, I don't notice false backgrounds, bad CGI, or fake wounds being stitched up. I don't look for that stuff, and my mind doesn't tell me if it sees something odd, unless it is absolutely blatant. I would suppose that helps me to immerse myself into the story even further than you guys can.

Lucky me, I guess. :)

CR