http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2882380

As a Dane this is very disappointing but unfortunately not a huge surprise. I was one of the 100.000 gathered in the centre of Copenhagen when he came home from France and was celebrated like a hero.

I see no way he can stay on as the manager for CSC. There is no way they will let him near the Tour de France after this.

The Top-3 (Riis, Jan Ullrich and Richard Virenque) from the 1996 ride is now all taken for doping and #4 Laurent Dufaux was another rider from the notorious Festina team.

That old Saturday Night Live skit about the all drug Olympics might just be the way to go.

Everyone take whatever you want and may the best freak of nature win.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2882380

As a Dane this is very disappointing but unfortunately not a huge surprise. I was one of the 100.000 gathered in the centre of Copenhagen when he came home from France and was celebrated like a hero.

I see no way he can stay on as the manager for CSC. There is no way they will let him near the Tour de France after this.

The Top-3 (Riis, Jan Ullrich and Richard Virenque) from the 1996 ride is now all taken for doping and #4 Laurent Dufaux was another rider from the notorious Festina team.


So does anyone think Lance was clean? If Landis was doing something, and the guys who came before him were doing something, does anyone thing Lance could've done it 7 straight?

What's with all the athletes admitting drug use? Riis? Giambi?

So does anyone think Lance was clean? If Landis was doing something, and the guys who came before him were doing something, does anyone thing Lance could've done it 7 straight?

I don't know how you can't at least have a doubt at this point.

So does anyone think Lance was clean?
Yes. Lots of people. And don't bother bringing common sense into it, they don't want to hear it. They will go ALL CAPS on you if you try to argue otherwise.

So does anyone think Lance was clean? If Landis was doing something, and the guys who came before him were doing something, does anyone thing Lance could've done it 7 straight?

HE HAD CANCER! WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?!?

lol

Of course he did. Just like Roger Clemens. When people have their heroes identified though, there isn't a whole lot you can do to change their minds.

As I see it cycling has three choices:

1) Go with albionmoonlight's suggestion above and just let everyone take whatever they want (the humorous option)

2) Have drug tests after every single leg of every race, mandatory lifetime bans for positive tests and set up an independent, multi-national testing lab so neither the Euros or the Yanks can moan when one of their riders gets fingered

3) Do nothing and continue their inevitable slide to becoming the most irrelevant joke sport on the planet.

I know what I would do, but then if ALL the riders are dirty, maybe that isn't an option.

As for Lance, who knows. I certainly hope not. It could be a case of tainted by association, which would be really sad if he was legit.

3) Do nothing and continue their inevitable slide to becoming the most irrelevant joke sport on the planet.

I thought we already established this to be Figure Skating..

That old Saturday Night Live skit about the all drug Olympics might just be the way to go.

Everyone take whatever you want and may the best freak of nature win.

I'm pretty sure in the future we will look back with amazement that athletic organizations and fans actually cared about what substances athletes took.

It will be looked back on as the equivalent of say, if the first baseball players who trained year-round were considered "cheating".

So far, as NorthwoodDK pointed out, it appears that the two teams that are impacted by this are Festina and CSC. Doping was obviously widespread on these two teams, but that doesn't necessarily infer that the other 18+ teams in the Tour were systematically doping.

And Telekom - Riis, Zabel, Ullrich and one other guy who was just a grunt spring immediately to mind...

Unless there's solid evidence that Armstrong used PED, then I don't think it's fair to definitively say he's a cheater. Speculation is okay, but to simply say, "He did it" is wrong.

Unless there's solid evidence that Armstrong used PED, then I don't think it's fair to definitively say he's a cheater. Speculation is okay, but to simply say, "He did it" is wrong.

He failed at least one test (the EPO test that was later matched to him). He's been accused by two former employee, by a former teammate, and a former doctor, as well as many, many people who would not necessarily have direct knowledge. He was the most dominant competitor by far in a dirty sport during perhaps it's dirtiest era.

There are holes that can be poked in each of the above, and Armstrong is very good at using lawsuits and public relations terms like "witch hunt" to poke holes in any accusation. So in that sense it's all circumstantial. But as we've seen in other sports, drug-use evidence is always circumstantial because even a positive test can be denied. Short of a confession or a video tape of him injecting (which he'd just claim was doctored), I'm not sure what kind of solid evidence you want to see.

Let's put it this way: there's far, far more evidence of Armstrong's drug use than, say, Sammy Sosa. But Sosa isn't some kind of national hero, so when someone claims he was clean we all just roll our eyes and wonder what kind of fantasy world they're living in.

That old Saturday Night Live skit about the all drug Olympics might just be the way to go.

Everyone take whatever you want and may the best freak of nature win.

Ummm, is that not we have already, at least for the Summer Games? We know safely assume that there is 100& usage in track/field, cycling, wrestling, weightlifting, gymnastics - plus a few others I can't think of. Don't know about swimming though.

He failed at least one test (the EPO test that was later matched to him). He's been accused by two former employee, by a former teammate, and a former doctor, as well as many, many people who would not necessarily have direct knowledge. He was the most dominant competitor by far in a dirty sport during perhaps it's dirtiest era.

There are holes that can be poked in each of the above, and Armstrong is very good at using lawsuits and public relations terms like "witch hunt" to poke holes in any accusation. So in that sense it's all circumstantial. But as we've seen in other sports, drug-use evidence is always circumstantial because even a positive test can be denied. Short of a confession or a video tape of him injecting (which he'd just claim was doctored), I'm not sure what kind of solid evidence you want to see.

Let's put it this way: there's far, far more evidence of Armstrong's drug use than, say, Sammy Sosa. But Sosa isn't some kind of national hero, so when someone claims he was clean we all just roll our eyes and wonder what kind of fantasy world they're living in.

You just hate him because he's American, you dirty canuck.

You just hate him because he's American, you dirty canuck.
Not really. I'm just fiercely, fiercely pro-cancer.

Ummm, is that not we have already, at least for the Summer Games? We know safely assume that there is 100& usage in track/field, cycling, wrestling, weightlifting, gymnastics - plus a few others I can't think of. Don't know about swimming though.You forgot baseball. And hockey. And basketball. And soccer. And tennis. And any other sport. because if 7 riders of the same team (Telekom 1996) say they used drugs and all got it from the same person, that makes all cyclist and other sports people around the world cheaters.

Not really. I'm just fiercely, fiercely pro-cancer.

Mutated cells got us here, I can't believe we are turning against them now!

You forgot baseball. And hockey. And basketball. And soccer. And tennis. And any other sport. because if 7 riders of the same team (Telekom 1996) say they used drugs and all got it from the same person, that makes all cyclist and other sports people around the world cheaters.

Euro-denial.

Euro-denial.
Is that the same Bucc that once taught me that not all Americans are the same?

Is that the same Bucc that once taught me that not all Americans are the same?

Oops. How about Dutch-denial? :)

You got me there. :D

I think they should ban Tommy John Surgery, Ibuprofin, whatever the hell they did to Curt Schilling in the playoffs a couple of years back, Wade Boggs' chicken dinners and polio shots.

Too much is made of this. Leave HGhiambi alone. Leave Big Head Barry alone. Leave all those cyclists alone. If you really care so much, lock everyone in a room 365 days a year, feed everyone exactly the same thing, and only let them out to compete. Otherwise, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for this witch hunt.

I have to admit, I do get some satisfaction out of the American cyclists dominating a sport France loves, but America couldn't care less about. It makes up for that soccer tournament America is so bad in every four years.

I think they should ban Tommy John Surgery, Ibuprofin, whatever the hell they did to Curt Schilling in the playoffs a couple of years back, Wade Boggs' chicken dinners and polio shots.
Big difference between those things and performance enhancers that give a short-term advantage but are likely to cause long-term damage. When people feel like they (or their kids) can't compete in a sport at any sort of high level and still live past 50, then your sport isn't going to be around very long.

(And yes, the dangers of steroids are probably grossly exagerated in the current debate. I think the point still holds.)

And tennis.
Not women's tennis. A few years back 2 Sisters on the women's tennis circuit made it known that they would never allow themselves to be tested by any individual tournament or tennis organization. Men's tennis had random drug testing, but women's tennis had no testing of any kind.

Carl Lewis did pretty much the same thing with Track & Field, only competing at non-tested events.


Can your employer give you random drug tests for no reason? I am pretty sure the legal answer is "NO".


Pro Athletes just need to start saying "No".... "Just say No, to drug testing":)

Not women's tennis. A few years back 2 Sisters on the women's tennis circuit made it known that they would never allow themselves to be tested by any individual tournament or tennis organization. Men's tennis had random drug testing, but women's tennis had no testing of any kind.

Carl Lewis did pretty much the same thing with Track & Field, only competing at non-tested events.


Can your employer give you random drug tests for no reason? I am pretty sure the legal answer is "NO".


Pro Athletes just need to start saying "No".... "Just say No, to drug testing":)

The leagues, associations, and employers have a bit of leverage to apply though. "Oh so you refuse to be tested... You won't be collecting your pay checks until you change your mind." As long as maintaining the "integrity" of the sport/league is considered grounds for drug testing, the players don't have much choice. Nor do I believe they should.