Poll to follow.

Hey, I'm honest with my answer. Maybe a fine... that's it.

Execution

HOF ban and lifetime suspension. he should also have to repay all
His playoff bonuses and those wins vacated. His mvp
Awards should also be stripped.

But a 1 game suspension would suffice.

Force him to play for the Jets.

- Jets fan.

He will be lucky to find a job as a trout farmer after the NFL's through with him.

He's tarnished from here on out, but if he gets anything more than a fine I'll be stunned.

Give him the ol' William Wallace.

The Tom Brady lynch mob is collecting their pitch forks and will be out in full force today.

IMO this just strengthens Eli Mannings legacy, Brady can't beat him even when he cheats and lies about it!

I was going to pick 3 game suspension but there is no choice to match that.

He should have to visit the White House.

Give him the ol' William Wallace.

Yes! YES!!!

I can see him bravely crying out "Deflation.... DEFLATION!!!" as he is torn apart.

I'm disappointed that there's no "Flogging with a Trout" option. Absent that choice, I say 4 games -- 2 for cheating and 2 more for lying about it to investigators.

Season long.

The Tom Brady lynch mob is collecting their pitch forks and will be out in full force today.

IMO this just strengthens Eli Mannings legacy, Brady can't beat him even when he cheats and lies about it!

i think Lathum wins the thread with this

Tom has to watch Eli bang Giselle.

:D :D :D Tom has to watch Eli bang Giselle.

Tom has to watch Eli bang Giselle.

He already made Tom his bitch twice, may as well do the same for his wife.

Finally she'll get to be with someone who has properly-inflated balls.

There is a whole bunch of win here between Lathum's and cartman's posts :D

Hey Gisele, who spanked your husband TWICE in the superbowl and is now going to spank you? This guy is, thats who!


<a href="http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/Lathum/media/eli_zpsddu8wezf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w536/Lathum/eli_zpsddu8wezf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo eli_zpsddu8wezf.jpg"/></a>

As I said when this was first going down, the punishment should probably depend on how serious the NFL is about the rule. If it ain't no thang, slap him on the wrist since a rule WAS broken, and change the rule afterward.

If the NFL still considers this an integrity-of-equipment issue and is serious about deterrence, come down with both feet, to the extent that 'more probable than not' allows, in whatever form that takes.

to the extent that 'more probable than not' allows, in whatever form that takes.

I think this is the ultimate question. Any leniency that would have been shown due to seriousness of the rule was thrown out the window when Brady started lying.

More probably than not, they've shown that Brady prefers footballs at a lower inflation level and communicated that to the equipment managers.

What they haven't shown is that Brady asked for footballs below 12.5 psi. And, even though "everyone else does it" is a terrible excuse, they haven't shown any ability to determine what percentage of the footballs comply, period.

In fact, it seems these guys were somewhat used to receiving footballs from the referees that didn't comply in the first place. If they had the impression that the NFL didn't care whether they were underinflated or overinflated, there was reason for that impression. Taking a little air out if the referees added too much might seem like part of their job.

It's up to the referee, before each play, to determine whether the football he spots is a legal football.

I'd imagine we'll see a rules change for next season. A suspension seems overboard.

Says the unbiased Michigan fan. ;)

The correct punishment is to give the Patriots referees that actually do check the balls.

And then inflate them to 18 psi and coat them in vaseline.

He needs to get the QB death penalty, which means playing for the Browns.

Castrate him, then send him to the Browns.

Castrate him, then send him to the Browns.

And I thought I was cruel.

He cheated. He knew it.

What's so complicated??? I don't even hate the Pats, but come on.





(I am admitting that I have not read anything in this thread, so there is that)

Wow, our Euro contingent are big softies! ;)

He cheated. He knew it.

What's so complicated??? I don't even hate the Pats, but come on.

I'm in favor of Brady being punished, but not as what this is -- selective outrage. If they punish him they need to be punishing a lot of other people doing it and they aren't even thinking about doing that. I'll never defend cheating but it's just ridiculous IMO to get exercised about this and pretend the NFL cares about cheating. It's like all the Michigan fans(I say this as a Wolverine) who got all self-righteous about the sweater vest when he got caught.

As I said in previous discussions, it's stuff like this that makes me root more for teams like New England(the Lebron James effect in basketball, etc.) The selectiveness of the response, which has all the appearance of being largely envy-driven, makes me just want them to succeed more.

I'm in favor of Brady being punished, but not as what this is -- selective outrage. If they punish him they need to be punishing a lot of other people doing it and they aren't even thinking about doing that. I'll never defend cheating but it's just ridiculous IMO to get exercised about this and pretend the NFL cares about cheating. It's like all the Michigan fans(I say this as a Wolverine) who got all self-righteous about the sweater vest when he got caught.

As I said in previous discussions, it's stuff like this that makes me root more for teams like New England(the Lebron James effect in basketball, etc.) The selectiveness of the response, which has all the appearance of being largely envy-driven, makes me just want them to succeed more.

Who else has been caught deflating balls?

A number of people have come out and said it is common practice. The Phil Simms conversation with Aaron Rodgers where he said he tries to overinflate the balls. Nobody cared. In my opinion, there is plainly and simply no good reason to care about it when Brady did it since nobody cared when Simms reported Rodgers tried to do it.

I'm disgusted with Brady's lack of integrity here, I just don't buy for a second that it is in any way unique.

So who else has been caught with deflated balls?

As far as I know, nobody. I don't think that's close to the most relevant question though.

I'm not sure what the most relevant question is at the moment, but it's hard to claim selective outrage when afaik only Tom Brady has been the only one caught with deflated balls.

As far as I know, nobody. I don't think that's close to the most relevant question though.

I am a Miami Dolphins fan and I love to watch Brady play.

I think the NFL has an issue if they just brush this under the rug. This is a league that has made tremendous leaps in popularity due to fantasy football, so much so that I believe rule changes for more offense are a direct result of that popularity. But, I think that could be damaged if people believe that cheating occurs on a regular basis and that there in no ramifications for that cheating.

A number of people have come out and said it is common practice. The Phil Simms conversation with Aaron Rodgers where he said he tries to overinflate the balls. Nobody cared. In my opinion, there is plainly and simply no good reason to care about it when Brady did it since nobody cared when Simms reported Rodgers tried to do it.

I'm disgusted with Brady's lack of integrity here, I just don't buy for a second that it is in any way unique.

Isn't the same thing said about most of these "scandals"? We know that bounties were placed on the heads of players and no one cared until Buddy Ryan put a bounty on a kicker. Then, we stopped caring until the bounty was placed on Brett Favre. I know people have issues with the deflated balls/ bounties comparisons so how about this one. We know in baseball that pitchers will deface the baseball if they get the chance yet, when a specific pitcher is caught, that pitcher is the big cheat.

Brady is not unique. Neither was Yankees pitcher Michael Pineda. They just got caught.

Report: Brady suspension will be announced next week | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/09/report-brady-suspension-will-be-announced-next-week/)

Brady isn't getting hammered for the crime, he is getting hammered for the way he acted after, and rightfully so.

Brady isn't getting hammered for the crime, he is getting hammered for the way he acted after, and rightfully so.

+1


(FWIW, it feels great to just post "+1".)

Know what would be interesting? Say the suspension is decided to be 1 game - it should be for 1 playoff game, not a regular season game.

Know what would be interesting? Say the suspension is decided to be 1 game - it should be for 1 playoff game, not a regular season game.

I'm on the suspend Brady and make it hurt (not one or two games. If you are going to suspend someone for texting for four games, this deserves that as well) That said, no, not the playoffs.

The comments I've seen everywhere truly amuse me. (and I'm sure MY comments amuse others as well)

Stuff like:

More probable than not is not a smoking gun. (yeah, it is, read the report)
It's so small it doesn't even matter (OK, then why did he do it and why is he lying about it?)

They won the game by 40, he dominated the second half with inflated footballs - Anyone who thinks Brady is going to become Mark Sanchez with fully inflated balls is a true hater. But you can't say cheating is ok as long as you win by 40. Lying about it is ok if it didn't make a difference in the game? Ummmmm. . . hell no. Just no.

It was a sting operation - You don't have to worry about a sting operation if you don't cheat. It's pretty simple.

The NFL won't do anything, it's the Patriots - Give me a break. They could have swept this under the rug had they chose to. Given Kraft his apology and wiped it clean. The NFL is not in bed with the Patriots. That's utterly ridiculous.



Brady lied and Brady cheated. I don't know how anyone can argue the points if you read the report. Fine and suspend him and put this to bed. Make it crystal clear to the Patriots that there is no more chances. Nothing funny with injury reports, nothing funny with video cameras, nothing funny with footballs. Stick within the rules of the game or the next time you will truly see a hammer of epic proportions. Enough of the garbage.

A number of people have come out and said it is common practice. The Phil Simms conversation with Aaron Rodgers where he said he tries to overinflate the balls. Nobody cared. In my opinion, there is plainly and simply no good reason to care about it when Brady did it since nobody cared when Simms reported Rodgers tried to do it.

I'm disgusted with Brady's lack of integrity here, I just don't buy for a second that it is in any way unique.

Rodgers didn't say he tries to over inflate the balls.

Rodgers didn't say he tries to over inflate the balls.

He does say that they push the limit on inflation, and sometimes try to go over a little to see what the refs will let them get away with. And that's fair enough - it's the officials job to throw those balls out, and if they don't then you get to play with them.

But there's certainly nothing to suggest Rodgers conspired to over-inflate the balls after the officials had judged them to be properly inflated.

If I was a Pats fan I'd be really worried that random Rog was going to make him sit an entire season.

Wow, our Euro contingent are big softies! ;)I think you're misreading my answer to the poll. The NFL's suspensions are the softest in the world of sports. Almost everywhere, a doping penalty is 1 or 2 years, the NFL suspends player for just a month for the same misbehavior. Playing around with balls hardness, it's just not important enough of an issue to get me worked up about and in comparison of other violations, it should be punished as such, with a 'much a do about nothing'. Admittedly punishing the biggest name in the game is a signal that the NFL technically disapproves of this behavior, in the end it feels to me that Tom Brady will be scapegoated for something that's most likely done by the majority in the business.

He did the crime; he should do the time.

I think you're misreading my answer to the poll. The NFL's suspensions are the softest in the world of sports. Almost everywhere, a doping penalty is 1 or 2 years, the NFL suspends player for just a month for the same misbehavior. Playing around with balls hardness, it's just not important enough of an issue to get me worked up about and in comparison of other violations, it should be punished as such, with a 'much a do about nothing'. Admittedly punishing the biggest name in the game is a signal that the NFL technically disapproves of this behavior, in the end it feels to me that Tom Brady will be scapegoated for something that's most likely done by the majority in the business.

+1

Doping is 4 games and represents both a competitive advantage and a player safety issue. How under-inflating the ball could garner an equal or larger suspension is confusing to me.

He did the crime; he should do the time.

MIJB makes a very fair point - people think Brady's offense deserves a worse punishment than taking PEDs?

Punishment should be for the dishonesty.

Just for deflating balls? That's worth a small fine. Dishonesty is worth a couple games

MIJB makes a very fair point - people think Brady's offense deserves a worse punishment than taking PEDs?

For actively lying and potentially hindering the investigation? Yes. I hope the transcript from the investigation comes out, so we can see if he changed his tune after his presser or if he kept shrugging his shoulders.

+1

Doping is 4 games and represents both a competitive advantage and a player safety issue. How under-inflating the ball could garner an equal or larger suspension is confusing to me.

They're both integrity-of-the-game issues, or at least, the rules exist nominally because of that notion. Whether you believe over- or under-inflation of the ball actually does impact the integrity of the game any longer (now that each quarterback has their own set of game-use balls) is another matter.

If the NFL still believes that that rule has a tangible impact on the integrity of the game, it should absolutely come down on Brady as hard as it would on a PED offender.

If the NFL does not so believe, and chooses to fine him, that's okay too, but it should change the rule going forward if that's the case.

the coverup is always worse than the crime.

They're both integrity-of-the-game issues, or at least, the rules exist nominally because of that notion. Whether you believe over- or under-inflation of the ball actually does impact the integrity of the game any longer (now that each quarterback has their own set of game-use balls) is another matter.

If the NFL still believes that that rule has a tangible impact on the integrity of the game, it should absolutely come down on Brady as hard as it would on a PED offender.

If the NFL does not so believe, and chooses to fine him, that's okay too, but it should change the rule going forward if that's the case.

PEDs aren't exclusively an integrity-of-the-game issue, though. There is also the player health/safety element.

As for the lying, well, players lie about taking PEDs before and after getting caught all the time, so again I'm confused by why this is such a big deal (comparatively).

Mike Reiss has it right:

Quick-hit thoughts around the New England Patriots - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4781318/quick-hit-thoughts-around-the-patriots)

Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing? Add in comments from Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers about his preference for overinflated footballs, and this New York Times story on Eli Manning and his football preparation, and it just seems we've gone off the rails here.

One more interesting read (again, I'm a homer), but there's some holes in the story, including the fact that the referee can't remember which gauge he used at halftime, because there was two, that was almost a half PSI difference between the two needles reading before the game. He thinks he used the high reading one pregame (and the low one at halftime), and the Wells Report disregards this and uses supposition to say it was the other one.

Wells report disregards Anderson’s “best recollection” on a key piece of evidence | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/wells-report-disregards-andersons-best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/)

Where's that picture of the Iraqi Information Minister?

As an outsider to this, and I hate to side with Pats fans, but cant the NFL just refine the rules and move on? I vioted no punishment, btw.

I see a one game suspension and FOFC getting it 'right' as that's the most popular answer.

I voted fine: I think the whole thing is completely overblown, but there is a rule and it has been broken, so minimum punishment, slap on the wrists, draw up a new procedure or new rules, move on.

4 game suspension handed down, plus $1 million fine and loss of two draft picks, one of them a #1.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/11/tom-brady-suspended-four-games-for-his-role-in-deflategate/

4 game suspension handed down, plus $1 million fine and loss of two draft picks, one of them a #1.

Bob Kraft is still waiting for his apology.


But I was right on the 4 game suspension!

The league was careful to note that the punishment was for the violation itself but also the “failure to cooperate in the subsequent investigation,” and that Brady’s suspension was for “conduct detrimental to the integrity of the NFL.”

Seems fair.

Hot damn, that's pretty stiff. I know it's tricky business to try and equate these suspensions, but that seems a little egregious compared to all the off-season action. It gets murky because the NFL shouldn't be responsible for the punishment in criminal cases, and someone who directly subverts their process of investigation, and possibly effects "the sanctity of the game", IS someone who should be punished to the utmost of their abilities...but it's still hard to try and equate/understand how the NFL handles punishment.

On the one hand, it seems fair to punish the Patriots beyond what may seem reasonable, because of their previous actions, but on the other hand Tom Brady wasn't the one recording practices or responsible for the injury report, and it seems like he's being personally punished further for the past actions of the organization.

I could see this quickly turning into another example of where the NFL/Goodell's rush to appeal to public opinion ends up working against them, as some folks who were 100% supportive of punishing Brady & the Patriots end up questioning the process/results rather than supporting, because it all seems so arbitrary and random.

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

You mean just like there wasn't going to be any suspension at all?

I heard the balls were deflated but haven't paid any attention really. 4 games is a shock, didn't even know he did anything wrong. Could someone post a time line or some diagrams of what happened?

Fire Goddell please! No more No Fun League or stupid punishments like this one...

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

Yeah, the integrity of the game is public outrage. the suspension is always made with the idea the appeal will grand them something.

In this case, it'll be tough because the language of the suspension talks about not only the violation, but the fact Brady didn't cooperate. At most, Brady will get this to two games, but I'm not even convinced he will be able to do that.

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

Somebody with more knowledge than I fill me in. Kraft can't appeal but Brady can but can he just appeal the suspension or can his appeal cover more than just the games

The NFL is saying the deflation took place after the referee certified the footballs. I could see Brady getting a couple of games for that even if he didn't want them below 12.5 psi (I can't imagine why he would - he has huge hands).

I didn't see the first-rounder coming. The letter refers to Spygate. Sorta like the NCAA and institutional control.

Having lived in the area for several years, I can imagine how this is going over in Patriot Nation. Shaughnessy is probably popping champagne. Sports Radio has, more probable than not, self-combusted.

Boom goes the dynamite!

Brady may participate in the offseason, training camp and preseason games, but pending appeal, will miss games against the Steelers, Bills, Jaguars and Cowboys.

......

This is an OUTRAGE! The absolute most his suspension should be is 3 games. That 4th one is just absurd!!!

......

This is an OUTRAGE! The absolute most his suspension should be is 3 games. That 4th one is just absurd!!!

The 5th game is against... The Colts

I like it. :)

the 4-games is w/o pay...anyone know what that means in terms of Brady's contract?

Having lived in the area for several years, I can imagine how this is going over in Patriot Nation. Shaughnessy is probably popping champagne. Sports Radio has, more probable than not, self-combusted.

It has in Maine at least.

the 4-games is w/o pay...anyone know what that means in terms of Brady's contract?

His new contract was for $8 mil next season, so $2 mil.

I love that Goodell claims this effects the integrity of the league. The league has integrity left at this point?

The suspension seems fair to me. I think first offender PED users get 4 games and this seems similar to that especially when you consider the fact he didn't cooperate with the investigation.

The penalty on the Patriots seems overly harsh though. Based on what I read this whole thing seemed to be between Brady and two locker room attendants. I am a Colts fan though so I do get enjoyment from the Patriots getting penalized so heavily.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rnqQhUdXgvI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I voted season long, but really a career ban is appropriate. They should forfeit all superbowls and the Raiders should be named winners of the tuck game and given an extra super bowl trophy.

Really, I think 2-4 is appropriate. If he was honest about it, I would have been ok with just a fine, but I think he deserves a few games for thinking he is too cool for school.

Honestly surprised I was right with 4-8. I think it gets appealed down to 2, but I could see the 4 sticking. Imagine the hype going into the Colts-Pats game?

And Dad wants to sell all our night home games this year (90 minute drive that late is wearing him down). Don't think we'll have a problem moving them.

Really, I think 2-4 is appropriate. If he was honest about it, I would have been ok with just a fine, but I think he deserves a few games for thinking he is too cool for school.

The penalty on the Patriots seems overly harsh though. Based on what I read this whole thing seemed to be between Brady and two locker room attendants.

Those sum up my feelings.

What better Patriots fans defending goldenboy or MBBF defending Royals...

What better Patriots fans defending goldenboy or MBBF defending Royals/Mizzou/Sony/ghosts/etc...

fixed

Meanwhile, in Belichek's mind, "Haha, suckers, I get 4 good looks at Giroppalo. *snicker*"

......

This is an OUTRAGE! The absolute most his suspension should be is 3 games. That 4th one is just absurd!!!

LOL!

It would be tough to overturn it on appeal. They specifically state that the evidence is that this has been going on for some time rather than a single game, combined with the Spygate scandal which is why I think the punishment looks so harsh.

Seems a tad excessive to me, but I think they did that on purpose because it's going to be appealed and reduced if they go to an arbitrator outside the NFL's appeals process. And if Brady does go that route, he's going to be asked to hand over his phone and computer again so they can check his emails, callls, and texts. Why bother appealing if you aren't willing to do that?

In the end, I think it will be reduced to 2 or 3 games suspended. If the Patriots can appeal, they will get one of the draft picks, probably not the first rounder back, and a smaller fine. If the two locker room attendants did this under Brady's orders, then they need to get their jobs back-probably suspended the same time as Brady.

I don't understand this whole cell phone thing. Why should a guy have to turn over or provide a private investigator with his personal private cell phone communications? And he's essentially suspended for not doing it? Where does the line end... can the NFL demand to search private residences or vehicles as well and would a refusal be considered conduct detrimental to the league? Perhaps it's an American vs. Canadian thing but is the reasonable expectation of privacy really that low?

I don't buy the employer argument either, considering the Pats are his employer. But furthermore, if I understand correctly, it's a private cell phone and not one issued by his team or the NFL.

He is not bound to hand them over. Its a private organization though, they can penalize as they see fit (barring the NFLPA, I'd imagine) and at this point it would only serve to prove innocence, I suppose.

At least we no longer have to worry about the optics of Goodell going to Kraft's parties!

Regarding the reasonableness of the cell phone issue, I certainly wouldn't hand over my phone in such an investigation if I had any choice. But, it sounds like Brady could have cooperated without physically surrendering his phone. Here's the relevant portion of the Wells report (pg. 21):

Similarly, although Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady's counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady's telephone or other electronic devices.

Brady refused to allow a review of his electronic materials, even one that was curated and supervised by his own counsel. Considering that the text and phone records of the other Patriots employees were already in hand, and that Bob Kraft had pledged that the Patriots organization would fully cooperate with the NFL's investigation, Brady's refusal to cooperate on this matter could fairly be described as peculiar.

I felt that since deflate-gate took place in the playoffs, the penalty should have been in the playoffs too. My bet was on a four-game suspension, but I though a better penalty would have been a two-game postseason suspension.

Brady will be 38 this season. Suspend him for two playoff games, and more than likely you're ensuring Brady won't be playing for a Super Bowl in the next two seasons. He might as well retire, since he probably wouldn't play a playoff game until he's 40.

This penalty actually probably helps Brady to a degree. He's going to get a four-week vacation during the season, which should keep him fresh for the playoffs. The Patriots are good enough to scuffle along for four weeks, and once they are in the tournament anything can happen, especially with a rested Brady.

Brady been texting with a side bitch, has some nudes she sent him and some nasty sexts about things on there. Doesn't want this to get out into the open, lest he turn into the next Tiger Woods. It's all about to come crashing down, pinball wizard.

Many Pats' fans posts online seem to focus on the deflation and not the fact that the Pats are repeat offenders who didn't exactly cooperate this time around. Punishment is well deserved though I still think it gets reduced when Kraft starts threatening law suits or something.

Count me amongst the folks who think this would've all blown over with a minor fine had Brady simply said, "yeah, I asked 'em to make sure the balls were at the low end of the allowable range - really didn't think it was a big deal. Didn't mean to break any rules. Sorry, don't blame the equipment guys, that was my bad."

But he didn't, so here we are.

Many Pats' fans posts online seem to focus on the deflation and not the fact that the Pats are repeat offenders who didn't exactly cooperate this time around. Punishment is well deserved though I still think it gets reduced when Kraft starts threatening law suits or something.

I think it gets muddy for folks (including myself) because I understand why the Patriots should be punished for another incident of a member of their organization ignoring the rules, but conversely I don't think Tom Brady's individual punishment should have anything to do with past organizational actions. The Patriots may be repeat offenders, and the organization should be punished accordingly, but I don't see how that should carry over to an individual player's punishment. Are individual Saints players subject to harsher discipline because of bountygate? Should each successive Seahawk to test positive for Adderall (har har) get a longer suspension because of the example that came before?

I don't have a problem with the lost pick or organizational fine, but it feels like the length of Brady's suspension was leveled as a punishment for him individually AND as a team punishment....which doesn't necessarily seem fair to the individual player, and feels like more of the arbitrary posturing that has filled up this off-season.

No, the length of Brady's suspension was for his attempts at deflating balls AND not cooperating with the investigation and lying about his involvement to the media.

The repeat offender thing is relevant for the $1mil fine and loss of draft picks.

Let's face it - this is USC all over again. A successful program that plays on the edge of the rules, is pretty much universally hated and when caught with their hand in the cookie jar thumbs their nose at the allegations and goes on the offensive while predicting there's nothing the league can do to them. That obviously rubs Goodell the wrong way but there's absolutely no way you can justify this IMO.

Put it this way, I'm a Bolts fan and they got a 25k fine for altering the balls, lying about it and refusing to turn over evidence a few years ago. Is there more mitigating circumstance here, sure. Is there enough to make that a million bucks, a first and a fourth and a 4 game suspension for somebody they have no actual evidence of wrongdoing? Hmmm...

No, the length of Brady's suspension was for his attempts at deflating balls AND not cooperating with the investigation and lying about his involvement to the media.

The repeat offender thing is relevant for the $1mil fine and loss of draft picks.

Exactly. Kraft is making himself look like a complete fool right now. The agent for Brady and his father can be idiotic, but one is blood, the other is paid.

I find it amazing that he hasn't said one word about the locker room guys getting suspended. Why not? If their text messages are accurate, Brady is guilty as hell. If they were deflating the footballs at all, Brady is guilty as hell. Is Kraft really trying to assert that this entire thing was based on two equipment managers acting alone without Tom Brady being involved? Does he think we are all idiots?

Either you say the entire thing is BS and fight for all of your guys or you admit that your organization has once again cheated and admit that you have a problem. I have had a large amount of respect for Kraft over the years. That is slipping away pretty quickly now.

No, the length of Brady's suspension was for his attempts at deflating balls AND not cooperating with the investigation and lying about his involvement to the media.

The repeat offender thing is relevant for the $1mil fine and loss of draft picks.

This. If he cooperated, it's a much lesser punishment (if any) for Brady, IMO.

This is the dumbest thing in the history of football and almost certainly what we will point to in the future when we look back on what led to the end of the NFL.

And if you go through my posts, you'll see I hate the Pats.

This is the dumbest thing in the history of football and almost certainly what we will point to in the future when we look back on what led to the end of the NFL.

And if you go through my posts, you'll see I hate the Pats.

This is the dumbest post in the history of internet posts and almost certainly what we will point to in the future when we look back on what led to the end of the internet.


Overreact much? With stupid rule change proposals and injury concerns this will not even be a mention, nor will it have anything at all to do with the end of the NFL. Teams and players who feel they are above following the rules are the problem, not punishment of said parties.

I understand Brady didn't cooperate, but would YOU hand over your personal cellphone to an independent investigation?

It's one thing if you're being subpoenaed. But every other NFL 'scandal' in the past year has been rife with leaks coming from the NFL front office. I'd tell 'em to get bent too. I wouldn't trust the bastards.

Count me amongst the folks who think this would've all blown over with a minor fine had Brady simply said, "yeah, I asked 'em to make sure the balls were at the low end of the allowable range - really didn't think it was a big deal. Didn't mean to break any rules. Sorry, don't blame the equipment guys, that was my bad."

But he didn't, so here we are.

1000% agree.

Let's face it - this is USC all over again. A successful program that plays on the edge of the rules, is pretty much universally hated and when caught with their hand in the cookie jar thumbs their nose at the allegations and goes on the offensive while predicting there's nothing the league can do to them. That obviously rubs Goodell the wrong way but there's absolutely no way you can justify this IMO.

Put it this way, I'm a Bolts fan and they got a 25k fine for altering the balls, lying about it and refusing to turn over evidence a few years ago. Is there more mitigating circumstance here, sure. Is there enough to make that a million bucks, a first and a fourth and a 4 game suspension for somebody they have no actual evidence of wrongdoing? Hmmm...

This is about Goodell and Kraft and power.

I think the more Brady fights this, the more he tarnishes his legacy. I'm with the people who think this would've blown over quickly if he'd just admitted he was involved and misunderstood the rules.

I understand Brady didn't cooperate, but would YOU hand over your personal cellphone to an independent investigation?

It's one thing if you're being subpoenaed. But every other NFL 'scandal' in the past year has been rife with leaks coming from the NFL front office. I'd tell 'em to get bent too. I wouldn't trust the bastards.

I would. Especially after the NFL offered to let my lawyer preside over the process.

The NFL should have a system where anybody employed by an NFL or team has no right to privacy and the league can get a warrant to search anything in possession of a player or employee. Then they can get to the bottom of anything!

I understand Brady didn't cooperate, but would YOU hand over your personal cellphone to an independent investigation?

It's one thing if you're being subpoenaed. But every other NFL 'scandal' in the past year has been rife with leaks coming from the NFL front office. I'd tell 'em to get bent too. I wouldn't trust the bastards.
Yeah no way in hell am I just handing my cell phone over if I'm Tom Brady.

Dude probably has at least 20 naked pics of Giselle and at least 5 joke pics from Brett Favre of his junk. Plus all the banter with Peyton and trash talk from Eli. No f'n way.

I thought the suspension would be about 2 games and I guess it still might be if he appeals.

I'm fine with the suspension. I like anything that creates a bit of chaos or hurts any NFL team that is not the Lions or Browns. Those are the only two teams I really like and they do a fine enough job fucking their own shit up, so they really don't need any assistance from the NFL.

When it comes to picking favorite NFL teams, I'm pretty much the worst. :(

This is the dumbest thing in the history of football and almost certainly what we will point to in the future when we look back on what led to the end of the NFL.

And if you go through my posts, you'll see I hate the Pats.

1) This isn't leading to the end of the NFL. Hell, even with the concussion issues and people pissed off at Goodal, the NFL is still ridiculously popular.

2) In ten years, we'll look back at this the same way. Those of us who think the rules are the rules and anyone who cheats to get around them deserve to be struck down will think the suspension is fair. Those who think "it wasn't that big of a deal" will think it's ridiculous. Time isn't going to change much on this one. I felt it was a huge deal when it first got out and I still think it's a huge deal.


I also agree with the post that Brady is ruining his legacy the more he fights it. Not in Boston of course, but outside of it where everyone can see very clearly he has been lying for a long time. God, I can't stand Keith Olberman at all. . . and he was spot on with his comments on it. As I said above, ditto for Kraft. Stop standing up for a guilty man. Just stop. The evidence is overwhelming, give it up.

If Jimmy G looks remotely promising in a couple games next year, even Boston will slowly start looking past Brady. And unlike Bledsoe, he did it to his own dumb self.

If it wasn't for the super bowl, Brady's finest performance in years, we'd probably already be hearing about the upside of seeing Garopollo play.

Really, I don't know how Goodell can win with these punishments. He gives barely anything to Ray Rice, feels the hatred of the world and then attempts to make amends. He then has to deal with this situation and then everyone screams that the sentence doesn't compare favorably to a person who beats his wife. How can he win here?

People are making comparisons to a mistake Goodell made in the past - they need to compare this punishment to the post-Ray Rice/Adrian Peterson outrage sentence.

Really, I don't know how Goodell can win with these punishments. He gives barely anything to Ray Rice, feels the hatred of the world and then attempts to make amends. He then has to deal with this situation and then everyone screams that the sentence doesn't compare favorably to a person who beats his wife. How can he win here?

People are making comparisons to a mistake Goodell made in the past - they need to compare this punishment to the post-Ray Rice/Adrian Peterson outrage sentence.

Goodell didn't say a damn thing and let the situation fester for months. He made his own bed. He could have disarmed the entire situation if he didn't want it to get to this point, he's a coward.

Goodell didn't say a damn thing and let the situation fester for months. He made his own bed. He could have disarmed the entire situation if he didn't want it to get to this point, he's a coward.

The same could be said of Brady.

But wouldn't people be screaming if there was no official report for Goodell to use to substantiate his sentence? If he had immediately made a ruling wouldn't there be outrage over the lack of due process?

I'm not a Goodell fan, but all the "Goodell sucks!" just seems like a narrative to me.

I agree, I've said the same of Brady. I'm just not giving Goodell a pass, he handled it awfully and put his own dumb self in an easily foreseeable situation.

I think relative to the Ray Rice type situations, Goodell has handled this one okay. He let the evidence come in and then levied a punishment based on the violation, subsequent lies, and then the refusal to cooperate with the investigation.

As far as Rice and the other wife beaters/drunk drivers/gun incidents, those should be insta-suspensions without pay during the investigation stage, and then, upon being found guilty, lifetime bans.

I just hate Goodell for everything he does at this point. He is not consistent in his rulings. He sticks his nose where it doesnt need to be. And lastly he changes a lot of what is good about the NFL and takes stances based on his own personal agenda. I dont really care a whole lot about this Patriots thing and Im fine with the 1 million slap on the wrist for the Pats but I dont think it was worthy of losing a #1 pick and a 4 game Tom Brady suspension. If the Footballs were a game changer, somone(refs, Colts, Coaches) would have noticed something wasnt right. NFL just needs to tighten their own polices and take care of it themselves. I doubt Tom Brady told the equipment people to break the rules.

I think relative to the Ray Rice type situations, Goodell has handled this one okay. He let the evidence come in and then levied a punishment based on the violation, subsequent lies, and then the refusal to cooperate with the investigation.

Sort of. He let the evidence come in, sat on it awhile, released it to gauge public reaction, and then levied a punishment based on the tone of the public outcry. That's not exactly leadership at its finest.

Sort of. He let the evidence come in, sat on it awhile, released it to gauge public reaction, and then levied a punishment based on the tone of the public outcry. That's not exactly leadership at its finest.

I'd bet every dollar I had that if he came out with the punishment alongside the release of the report, there would also be people bashing him for that approach.

I'm not feeling sorry for the man making $44MM annually, and it's come to this because he's handled things poorly in the past, so he's made his own bed, but he absolutely cannot win everyone over with anything he does.

If the Footballs were a game changer, somone(refs, Colts, Coaches) would have noticed something wasnt right. NFL just needs to tighten their own polices and take care of it themselves. I doubt Tom Brady told the equipment people to break the rules.

If it isn't a game changer then why do it? And if you don't think Brady ordered the code red I have a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge for sale.

Tail wagging the dog, for sure, but I think i'd be a little gun shy (which is probably why I'm not commissioner) if I was him. I mean, no one cared about Ray Rice (and everyone seemed ok with Goodell's response) until there was video.

He gets paid handsomely for what he does, but he's never going to be satisfy a fan base as capricious as the NFL's.

IAnd if you don't think Brady ordered the code red I have a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge for sale.

Absolutely. You can't tell me Brady didn't mention to the equipment guys how he wanted his game balls.

"OMG, God's gift to quarterbacking just told me how he wants his balls inflated - YES SIR!" Just an example of a star getting his way and throwing the guys who do it for him under the bus.

If it isn't a game changer then why do it? And if you don't think Brady ordered the code red I have a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge for sale.

His personal preference is lower inflated balls. I played QB in high school. We started a game with the other teams football. I chucked it 8 feet over the wide open WR on first play of the game. If you practice with a football a certain way you will notice something not right instantly. Tom Brady has likely been playing with deflated balls for the past 15 years and nothing was previously said. He ordered the balls the way he was used to. He didnt order the balls to be deflated so he could cheat the other team. He ordered them deflated because that is what he was used to and comfortable with.

I LOL at people who get all up in arms about Goodell.

Football is pretty freaking awesome. Fantasy, betting, daily fantasy, accesability to games, the NFL Network etc...the guy in the commishoner behind all that growth.

Who gives a rats ass about the way he handles suspension, etc...maybe if the players weren't such creeps he wouldn't be in that situation.

His personal preference is lower inflated balls. I played QB in high school. We started a game with the other teams football. I chucked it 8 feet over the wide open WR on first play of the game. If you practice with a football a certain way you will notice something not right instantly. Tom Brady has likely been playing with deflated balls for the past 15 years and nothing was previously said. He ordered the balls the way he was used to. He didnt order the balls to be deflated so he could cheat the other team. He ordered them deflated because that is what he was used to and comfortable with.

So what you are saying is he has been playing with the footballs that way for 15 years and the refs never noticed it when they were inspected prior to the game?

If you think this was a sting or a set up we can agree to disagree.

So what you are saying is he has been playing with the footballs that way for 15 years and the refs never noticed it when they were inspected prior to the game?

If you think this was a sting or a set up we can agree to disagree.

Id guess Tom Brady with all of the success he has had would want the balls set the exact same way he had always had them. I doubt he wouldnt have enough confidence in his own ability that he asked for it trying to hurt the Colts per say. If the balls were set different then what he was used to by a lot his throws would have been inaccurate that game. He probably has smart people figuring out how the balls would inflate/deflate during the game to best set the balls up for him. It was a cold day so maybe they deflated as the game went on. It probably has been going on for years. Who really knows?

It was a cold day so maybe they deflated as the game went on. It probably has been going on for years. Who really knows?

Colts balls were all spec, and it probably has been going on for years, hence the harsh punishment.

I doubt Tom Brady told the equipment people to break the rules.There's plenty of room to argue that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. However, the quoted statement is just...dumb. "The Deflater" (as he called himself) was deflating balls after the refs inspected them. His own text messages make that pretty clear. The report was in legal-speak ("at least generally aware"). But just plain common sense should tell you that there's no way that equipment handlers on ANY NFL team (let alone the freakin' Patriots under Tom Brady) would pull something like without the direction/approval of the QB.

OK. I wasn't crazy. Very beginning. Less than 15 seconds in.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/t0fgJ3NQEew" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There's plenty of room to argue that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. However, the quoted statement is just...dumb. "The Deflater" (as he called himself) was deflating balls after the refs inspected them. His own text messages make that pretty clear. The report was in legal-speak ("at least generally aware"). But just plain common sense should tell you that there's no way that equipment handlers on ANY NFL team (let alone the freakin' Patriots under Tom Brady) would pull something like without the direction/approval of the QB.

NEVER said he didnt order them to deflate. I said he never order them to "cheat". He probably just said fellas do what you usually do. You know how I want it done.

NEVER said he didnt order them to deflate. I said he never order them to "cheat". He probably just said fellas do what you usually do. You know how I want it done.

lol.

So plausable deniability then?

Did he wink at them when he said it for effect?

lol.

So plausable deniability then?

Did he wink at them when he said it for effect?

This is all speculation by everyone so its kind of a pointless discussion. I doubt he thought it was a big deal since hes been doing it for years. So no I dont think he thought he was cheating or really doing anything wrong since in all likelihood nothing was ever said about it previously.

lol.

So plausable deniability then?

Did he wink at them when he said it for effect?

I'm sure if Tom Brady winked at me, I would go all gooey inside.

NEVER said he didnt order them to deflate. I said he never order them to "cheat". He probably just said fellas do what you usually do. You know how I want it done.Oh, so he didn't use the word "cheat" and that makes it ok then?

Or is the argument that he wanted them deflated to the bottom of the legal limit? That doesn't hold water either. If he wanted them legal, he'd have had them offered up to the refs near the bottom of the limit.

Brady wanted the balls down to an illegal number. I don't get why that's so hard to accept. It's not like this is the first instance of a Hall Of Fame level player doctoring a ball...

lol.

So plausable deniability then?

Did he wink at them when he said it for effect?

I don't know why you are being difficult on this. I didn't even know it was up to debate whether or not he has been playing with balls at a low inflation level for his entire career. That's kind of a no brainer. I also think it's likely he yelled at the guys constantly whenever he didn't like them and basically said "Get the fucking balls to where I want them" and didn't say/ask how.

All irrelevant to anything though. I'm not so sure it's plausible deniability as much as he seriously didn't care what the method was as long as he got the result he wanted and didn't understand it would be such a big deal if word got out.

None of the above is any defense for anything, especially playing dumb and saying he's never heard of MacMillan. He certainly knew who he was and while the methods may not have been at the forefront of his mind before the Colts game, once the shit hit the fan he had a damn good idea what was going on. He denied he knew anything and is rightfully being dragged through the mud.


So yeah, this isn't a court of law, plausible deniability doesn't mean shit.

I love watching the contortions of the people trying to justify the cheating.

Oh, so he didn't use the word "cheat" and that makes it ok then?

Or is the argument that he wanted them deflated to the bottom of the legal limit? That doesn't hold water either. If he wanted them legal, he'd have had them offered up to the refs near the bottom of the limit.

Brady wanted the balls down to an illegal number. I don't get why that's so hard to accept. It's not like this is the first instance of a Hall Of Fame level player doctoring a ball...

Is it ok to me? I dont really care. I think he has used this same process for years and its too late to take away his career because of it. Is it ok to you? Doesnt sound like it.

Again, I think he just told them to do what they normally do.

As for you final paragraph. Since it was never enforced he probably just thought it was a grey area that would never actually be enforced. Kind of like the travel in the NBA. I guess the NFL chose to take a stand on it now and make an example out of Tom Brady because the public got knowledge of the situation.

This is all speculation by everyone so its kind of a pointless discussion. I doubt he thought it was a big deal since hes been doing it for years. So no I dont think he thought he was cheating or really doing anything wrong since in all likelihood nothing was ever said about it previously.

So why not just say that and be done with it?

People who don't think they are cheating generally defend their actions when accused of cheating.

I love watching the contortions of the people trying to justify the cheating.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone ever do that. Maybe the early bullshit "it didn't effect the outcome of the Colts game" arguments, but those died away pretty quickly.

I think most of the discussion is around just how much of an infraction it is and how much of a penalty is deserved. Some say its black and white, some say its a scale. I don't see people saying "It's ok because...." or arguing for zero penalties.

I think he has used this same process for years and its too late to take away his career because of it. He could have only used it after the rule change that he helped create. Before that, the home team provided the balls. So, no, he has not used the same process throughout his career.

I don't know why you are being difficult on this.



How exactly am I being difficult?

Calling someone out who is being so blatantly obtuse about the whole incident?

So why not just say that and be done with it?

People who don't think they are cheating generally defend their actions when accused of cheating.

He thought it would blow over immediately, no one would doubt him and he'd come out look innocent. He was really really wrong. He underestimated the situation drastically.

Again, that's no defense. It was a stupid strategy on his part and he deserves what he gets for strolling up the that podium and straight lying.

He could have only used it after the rule change that he helped create. Before that, the home team provided the balls. So, no, he has not used the same process throughout his career.

But he is a future HOF quarterback probably in the top 5 of all time that has had a certain amount of success with the balls being a certain way. How is deflating them to a level that he is not familiar with going to help him in any way? Doctoring a baseball to get better movement or whatever is a clear advantage to the pitcher. Doctoring a football for 1 game to a level you are not familiar with I cant wrap my head around when you are top 5 playing with a football you are used to. The only logic in my head says hes been doing it this way for years. Its not like the footballs are going to effect the Colts playing defense. It was only going to effect Tom Brady throwing the football and maybe the WRs catching the football a bit.

If you think this was a sting or a set up we can agree to disagree.Believe what you want on the rest*, but this absolutely was a sting. Goodell etc was told by Grigson of his concerns about the Pats before the game, and let the first half of the NFL Semifinal be played with what he thought were illegal balls so he could catch the Patriots in the act instead of talking to the Patriots or putting in a fail safe system like having someone test the balls on the sideline during the anthem. But he's all about The Integrity Of The Game.

* Imo, its abundantly clear that Brady was demanding balls at least near the NFL minimum, and has been for years. Whether he wanted them lower than 12.5 or whether those balls were even below 12.5 is completely inconclusive. The pressure gauge Walt Anderson thought he used before the game put them right in the expected range if they'd been 12.5 before the game, but the Wells report concluded he was wrong and he'd used the other gauge whose findings more strongly support tampering.

I actually don't care about the suspension - like y'all said, 4 game look at Garoppollo - but of course I hope the Patriots take this to an arbitrator or sue the NFL to get the picks back. Unless Roger Goodell wants to voluntarily hand over his text and email records.

How exactly am I being difficult?

Calling someone out who is being so blatantly obtuse about the whole incident?

Arguing about whether or not Brady always liked his balls at the same level? Thinking its ridiculous that Brady didn't just yell at the peons to get the fucking balls right and instead sat down with them and planned this shit out?

Even arguing it is silly, since it's irrelevant. But it certainly doesn't take a homer to think that Brady isn't digging down in the weeds and masterminding a conspiracy. He just wants his fucking balls right and he wants his fucking balls boys to make it fucking happen, he doesn't care how.

Adding copious fucks because that's how I picture Brady conversing with them :D.

And again, none of this is any defense. It's just discussion points to get some insight into what went on, either way I don't think it should impact any penalty. Once it hit the news Brady knew immediately what was likely happening, he could have just come out and said all this but instead acted like Tom Brady's shit don't stink and I'll come out of this sparkling gold.

Brady and the Pats had two options:

1. Admit Brady directed the attendants to deflate the balls, but do it in a smart manner that doesn't make it seem like cheating. Something like "Hey, the refs usually inflate the balls to 13 PSI and I like them at 12.5. So, I asked the attendants to reduce it down to the legal min of 12.5. Since it was still in the allowed range, I didn't think it was against the rules. My bad".

2. Completely stonewall everything. Don't have Brady provide any copies of emails or texts requested (the investigator didn't ask for the phone, just copies of the transcripts in question). Don't let the league talk to the attendants after the texts are found (which the Pats refused). At the end, give them the least amount of access to information as possible and hope they just don't have enough evidence to make anything stick.

IMO, option 1 gets Brady a 1-2 game suspension and the team a small fine (and maybe a 5th round pick). Option 2 has a much better best case (no penalty at all due to lack of evidence), but also a more draconian worst case (the 4 games and 1st round pick). Belichick and Kraft have routinely acted like they are above the law and given the middle finger to the league one too many times. The prudent course of action was option 1, but Belichick and Kraft were too proud to take that route and wanted full vindication. They gambled and lost.

I also see a lot of people comparing this to the Chargers incident in 2012. There is a key difference. What the Chargers did (rub the balls with a "sticky" towel) was not against the rules specifically. But, because the Chargers didn't fully cooperate with the refs investigation of the towels, they were fine $20K. Here's the league's finding:
Following a review of the San Diego Chargers use of towels that included an adhesive substance in an October 15 game against the Denver Broncos, the NFL has determined that the club did not violate a competitive rule by use of the towels.

However, NFL game officials are charged with protecting the integrity and competitive fairness of the games and club staff members, like players and coaches, have a clear obligation to cooperate in this effort and comply with the direction of game officials. As a result of the failure of club staff to follow the directive of a game official to immediately surrender the towels when directed to do so, and to attempt to conceal the towels, the Chargers have been fined $20,000.

In fact, after the investigation, the league instituted a rule to prevent "use of towels or other products that contain any type of adhesive substance". So, in theory, if a team did the same thing now - their penalty would be more severe. What Brady and the Pats attendants did directly violated a rule, they tried to cover it up and eventually stonewalled the investigation. I'm guessing that's the exact recipe to get the most severe penalty possible. Had they not broken an actual rule or provided the emails/texts or allowed more access to Brady/McNally, the penalty would have been less.

I also don't understand why it matters whether or not it was a sting. Proving the league is so incompetent they let half a playoff game get played with illegal balls after being tipped ahead of time? Sure. However not relevant to whether a rule was broken and what a penalty should be.

I'm so stick of hearing the locals toss around the "sting" word.

How is deflating them to a level that he is not familiar with going to help him in any way? I find it a little odd that the fumble numbers have been posted a lot and I haven't seen anything about Brady's passing numbers. They have been significantly better since the rule change went into effect. *shurg*

While it's worth some debate, certainly more than those fumbles stats, Brady went from Reche Caldwell to Randy Moss and then Rob Gronkowski. It's not like the numbers increased in a vaccum. Without those 2 guys in the lineup his numbers go down dramatically.

I find it a little odd that the fumble numbers have been posted a lot and I haven't seen anything about Brady's passing numbers. They have been significantly better since the rule change went into effect. *shurg*

He's also been a better road QB, which is interesting.

Brady and the Pats had two options:

1. Admit Brady directed the attendants to deflate the balls, but do it in a smart manner that doesn't make it seem like cheating. Something like "Hey, the refs usually inflate the balls to 13 PSI and I like them at 12.5. So, I asked the attendants to reduce it down to the legal min of 12.5. Since it was still in the allowed range, I didn't think it was against the rules. My bad".

...

IMO, option 1 gets Brady a 1-2 game suspension and the team a small fine (and maybe a 5th round pick).

Given that it was the Patriots, and the golden boy Tom Brady, I'd be really skeptical if everything that happened post-initial inspection ever sees the light of day if Brady first cops to a very generic "I like the balls on the low end, the equipment guys know that, and if they went too far or used an inaccurate gauge that's on us and I apologize etc". No suspension and the latter half of your discipline above if so. It was the complete denial and Belichick's science lesson that fueled this further.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone ever do that. Maybe the early bullshit "it didn't effect the outcome of the Colts game" arguments, but those died away pretty quickly.

I think most of the discussion is around just how much of an infraction it is and how much of a penalty is deserved. Some say its black and white, some say its a scale. I don't see people saying "It's ok because...." or arguing for zero penalties.

So, for example, you haven't heard anyone use the "everyone does it" defense and link to the list of NFL teams caught cheating in one way or another. A New Englander's guide to labeling every other NFL team a cheat | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/a-new-englanders-guide-to-labeling-every-other-nfl-team-a-cheat-135901897.html)

Or posts like this on Facebook:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t446/KodosForPrez/Untitled_zps6iur1zdk.png (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/KodosForPrez/media/Untitled_zps6iur1zdk.png.html)

Yeah, Court of Public Opinion strikes again. The suspension's not going to stand under appeal.

Mike Reiss has it right:

Quick-hit thoughts around the New England Patriots - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4781318/quick-hit-thoughts-around-the-patriots)

Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing? Add in comments from Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers about his preference for overinflated footballs, and this New York Times story on Eli Manning and his football preparation, and it just seems we've gone off the rails here.

He's also been a better road QB, which is interesting.
Does that matter since the rule change, though? Now both the home and away teams get to provide their own balls.

So, for example, you haven't heard anyone use the "everyone does it" defense and link to the list of NFL teams caught cheating in one way or another. A New Englander's guide to labeling every other NFL team a cheat | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/a-new-englanders-guide-to-labeling-every-other-nfl-team-a-cheat-135901897.html)

Or posts like this on Facebook:

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t446/KodosForPrez/Untitled_zps6iur1zdk.png (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/KodosForPrez/media/Untitled_zps6iur1zdk.png.html)



Not as a reason to forgive the offense altogether.

The point that picture seems to be making is that all those penalties were similar, despite there being a difference in severity.

You seem to be saying there is a large contingent of people stating "It's not cheating because everyone does it". I've seen(and the lying aside, believe) it's less severe because everyone does it and has been overlooked to this point. But that is different than saying it's not cheating and no penalty is deserved.

It's like a person who is caught speeding who tells the cop "Why don't you spend time going after the real criminals?" Trying to justify why your offense doesn't matter instead of owning up to your own offense. It's saying my violation of the rules shouldn't manner because there have been worse violations by others.

Jeff, you've actually been one of the more level-headed NE fans on this thing. You've said that Tom deserves to be punished for the lying, which is more than most NE fans will admit.

CB Asa Jackson from the Ravens got 8 games because a team doc didn't turn in the proper paperwork related to his first PED offense. Hard to justify that 8-game offense being "more severe" than the lower penalties for rape and domestic violence that have been handed out. Yet, competitive balance in professional sports is paramount to a league succeeding. If you participate in something that is deemed to have impacted that, it will probably be subjected to a higher penalty than an off-the-field event in certain situations. That's why Pete Rose is banned for life for gambling on baseball while other baseball players (like Ty Cobb, Orlando Cepeda, Darryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden) who have done some pretty awful things off the field are still allowed.

It's like a person who is caught speeding who tells the cop "Why don't you spend time going after the real criminals?" Trying to justify why your offense doesn't matter instead of owning up to your own offense. It's saying my violation of the rules shouldn't manner because there have been worse violations by others.

Honestly we are in agreement. I guess I just haven't seen a lot of what you've been seeing.

It's like a person who is caught speeding who tells the cop "Why don't you spend time going after the real criminals?" Trying to justify why your offense doesn't matter instead of owning up to your own offense. It's saying my violation of the rules shouldn't manner because there have been worse violations by others.

Yes, but what if you got the same punishment for speeding as people get for real crimes.

I'm pretty sure the punishment Brady got isn't akin to the year+ bans that Peterson, Darryl Washington, Greg Hardy and Rice got.

I love the irony of Tom's, "study the rule book" quote, especially if the defense is that he liked the balls at a certain PSI, but didn't necessarily tell anyone to cheat.

Study the rulebook was for the wacky eligible receiver plays they ran against the Ravens after they started crying they were illegal. According to the rulebook, at the time, they were indeed not illegal.

Had nothing to do with the balls.

Does that matter since the rule change, though? Now both the home and away teams get to provide their own balls.

I may be wrong but I believe only the home team has ball boys / attendants at games so it's not like this Patriot ball boy would ever be on the road. So at most I think this could only take place at home. Would be interesting to see a stats comparison.

It's also interesting that the NFL feels that under inflation is a big enough deal to carry out a huge investigation and warrant a fairly severe suspension but not big enough to address before the Colts playoff game.

Everyone saying that Brady should have just confessed in an 'oops, my bad' kind of way from the beginning is forgetting the timing of things. If he'd have done that the NFL would still have needed to punish him, and the likely result would have been missing the Super Bowl. As bad as he looks through all this, they aren't taking away his ring so ultimately he may still have played that right in his eyes.

Study the rulebook was for the wacky eligible receiver plays they ran against the Ravens after they started crying they were illegal. According to the rulebook, at the time, they were indeed not illegal.

Had nothing to do with the balls.

Exactly my point. Calling the Ravens out for not knowing the rulebook when the irony is that he was breaking the rules "possibly" the entire time.

Yes, but what if you got the same punishment for speeding as people get for real crimes.

My argument is that the real crimes aren't punished enough.

Yet, competitive balance in professional sports is paramount to a league succeeding. If you participate in something that is deemed to have impacted that, it will probably be subjected to a higher penalty than an off-the-field event in certain situations. Bingo. I think that's what the "deflating balls is worse than domestic violence" crowd is missing here. The hard reality is that cheating is a greater threat to the product's success than having a woman-batterer on the field. (I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying it's a business decision.)

I get what you are saying Ben. We are getting into what, if any, expectation there is for the NFL to enforce good morales and human decency. Or if it really is just a zero sum game around what impacts what happens on the field. If the expectation is the NFL worries about whats on the field and the law worries about what's off it, why penalize Rice/Peterson/etc at all?

Reminds me of investors asking Zuckerburg and Cook why they waste so much money on green initiatives and both of them basically said "Because it's the right thing to do, if it's 100% about the money with you then maybe you shouldn't invest with us".

Not trying really to apply this to Brady specifically, it's just an interesting take worth discussing.

FOZ?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Patriots supporters have arrived at the league office. Chanting &quot;Free Brady...&quot; <a href="http://t.co/KErSZzqDlp">pic.twitter.com/KErSZzqDlp</a></p>&mdash; Tiffany Blackmon (@tiffblackmon) <a href="https://twitter.com/tiffblackmon/status/598190935122509826">May 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Just heard the best take yet on Francesca. Apparently the media, angry at the lack of diversity on the Patriots, has framed the team and their white QB.

FOZ?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Patriots supporters have arrived at the league office. Chanting &quot;Free Brady...&quot; <a href="http://t.co/KErSZzqDlp">pic.twitter.com/KErSZzqDlp</a></p>&mdash; Tiffany Blackmon (@tiffblackmon) <a href="https://twitter.com/tiffblackmon/status/598190935122509826">May 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They're the guys from Barstool Sports.

Everyone saying that Brady should have just confessed in an 'oops, my bad' kind of way from the beginning is forgetting the timing of things. If he'd have done that the NFL would still have needed to punish him, and the likely result would have been missing the Super Bowl. As bad as he looks through all this, they aren't taking away his ring so ultimately he may still have played that right in his eyes.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying when Wells began his investigation (well after the SB), Brady should have cooperated and said what I quoted above. I don't think the league was that upset that Brady and the Pats didn't immediately setup a session with Wells in the week prior to the SB. Heck, I don't even think Wells was commissioned yet anyway.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Apparently the Patriots fans protesting in front of NFL HQ is a Barstool stunt, so now I'm doubly in favor of gassing them.</p>&mdash; Mike Tunison (@xmasape) <a href="https://twitter.com/xmasape/status/598197596977557504">May 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

For all you butt-hurt Pat fans, help pay the fine!

Patriots GOFUNDME (http://www.gofundme.com/NewEnglandPatriots)

Since it was never enforced he probably just thought it was a grey area that would never actually be enforced. Kind of like the travel in the NBA. I guess the NFL chose to take a stand on it now and make an example out of Tom Brady because the public got knowledge of the situation.

This. To the NBA example we can add the fact that there is holding on every play in the NFL, it's just a question of which ones are bad enough that they decide to call them(a situation begging for bias). The refusal to ban chop blocks since it would require a change in the game, etc.,(we could go on and on with examples here) and the argument is that we are supposed to believe these people care about the integrity of the game? Really??

This isn't justifying cheating. I'm against cheating but at the same time cheating happens all the time in every professional sport. That's why you need a consistency in what you are going to enforce and what you aren't going to. The only problem I have here is the NFL suddenly deciding to care about something it didn't care about before and then the mostly fake outrage over the apparent fact that Brady et al. cheated and lied, as if similar things aren't going on at every single freaking pro sporting event. Tim Duncan's 'moving picks', every single NBA post player re: allowable contact, the hand checking stuff, dribbling rules that nobody wants to consistently enforce, throwing at batters in baseball, football examples already given, various similar items in hockey like the stuff the Lightning were complaining about against the Wings -- this stuff is all over the place.

Honestly, the 'integrity of the game' argument is so absurd in my opinion that it makes me want to throw up. I don't see how a thinking person can buy it.

For all you butt-hurt Pat fans, help pay the fine!

Patriots GOFUNDME (http://www.gofundme.com/NewEnglandPatriots)

Ridiculous. The one part of the punishment that will have zero effect on the Pats they are raising money for. LOL!

Which makes for an interesting question. What do you suppose the dollar amount would be to Craft on paying cash for a #1 pick or paying cash to not have Brady suspended for 4 games would be?

I think the biggest potential pitfall for the Patriots is that they have to prepare two quarterbacks for the regular season. I don't think the 1st round pick hurts all that much. That is simply money they will be able to spend in free agency.

I could definitely see the Patriots giving the league the finger by trading at some point this year for a 2016 1st-rounder. :lol:

Man they are going to be pissed off once on the field. Feel sorry for the weaker teams on their schedule as they are gonna get handed some serious ass whoopins especially when Brady is back.

Man they are goo a be pushed once on the field .

I don't speak Gaelic.

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is that the Dolphins and Jets are in a way punished by this too, as the second of the four games Brady will miss is against the Bills. A one game ban wouldn't as adversely affect the competitive balance in the division.

I could see four games becoming two on appeal, but don't think think that it'll get dropped to the one game only, so somehow Rex Ryan ihas benefitted more than most out of this??!

I predict the Pats start off the year 4-0.

17-1 :p

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is that the Dolphins and Jets are in a way punished by this too, as the second of the four games Brady will miss is against the Bills. A one game ban wouldn't as adversely affect the competitive balance in the division.

I could see four games becoming two on appeal, but don't think think that it'll get dropped to the one game only, so somehow Rex Ryan ihas benefitted more than most out of this??!

I agree with your general point, but in this specific instance, it fails on two facts: A) It's the Bills; and B) they're the Jets and Dolphins.

Shutdown Corner spits truth:

Five reasons why the NFL got the deflate-gate punishment dead wrong | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/five-reasons-why-the-nfl-got-the-deflate-gate-punishment-dead-wrong-233900364.html)

In the second paragraph of the NFL's statement on the punishment, it says "the failure to cooperate in the subsequent investigation" was a reason for the harsh penalty. Again, this is the NFL using an easily digestible phrase that people can parrot but doesn't hold up if you have read the report. In fact, the line "the Patriots provided substantial cooperation throughout the investigation" appears in Wells' report. Page 23, if you're interested.

The Patriots did cooperate. They turned over text message records of employees, security tapes, secured interviews with dozens of their employees. "The failure to cooperate" is the NFL's pandering at its worst. The "failure to cooperate" is this: The Patriots say McNally was made available for four interviews but the investigators were turned down when a fifth interview was requested. Brady met with investigators, answered all their questions, but refused to provide text messages and emails. That's it. That's the extent of "failure to cooperate." There are no other examples of any lack of Patriots cooperation in the report.

edit: And I'm amused by the GoFundMe, even as someone who thinks the punishment was absolute idiotic bullshit (as I've made abundantly clear), I'm pretty sure Kraft can afford to pay it.

Shutdown Corner spits truth:

Is that what they're calling the white sticky substance dribbling out of their mouths now?

Never heard that one before, slang is always changing I guess.

Pats should just sign Vick. Guaranteed wk 1 win vs Pittsburgh.

Shutdown Corner spits truth:

Five reasons why the NFL got the deflate-gate punishment dead wrong | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/five-reasons-why-the-nfl-got-the-deflate-gate-punishment-dead-wrong-233900364.html)
Basically, the Pats completely cooperated when they didn't think there was any evidence that Brady did anything wrong. However, once they found out about the texts from McNally, they pulled all support for the investigation and started stonewalling.

Brady has hired an attorney with a history of beating the NFL like a rented mule in court. (he had hired him previously, to end the 2011 lockout, also was hired by the NFLPA to stop the lockout TV fund that the NFL tried to pull that year.)

It Is What It Is » Report: Tom Brady hires NFL nemesis Jeffrey Kessler to fight his suspension (http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/05/12/reports-tom-brady-hires-nfl-nemesis-jeffrey-kessler-to-fight-his-suspension/)

And best case, what does Brady get? Couple game reduction and still looks like a choad. Probably even more of one.

Lawyer better be able to dig something up that convinces the public that he is 100% innocent, otherwise dumb move.

The Pats have signed a free agent QB named Tim Grady to play the first four games of next season.

http://www.fofc-bbcf.com/timgrady.jpg

The Pats have signed a free agent QB named Tim Grady to play the first four games of next season.

http://www.fofc-bbcf.com/timgrady.jpg

:lol:

pftcommenter has molten lahva flowing from his poars on this one;

Patriots fans should be suspended for the first four games for acting like a bunch of sissies (http://uproxx.com/ksk/2015/05/patriots-fans-should-be-suspended-for-the-first-four-games-for-acting-like-a-bunch-of-sissies/)

Man, that was painful to read. Iz like OMG wurst grammer I of like evar scene

Man, that was painful to read. Iz like OMG wurst grammer I of like evar scene
*paneful

Man, that was painful to read. Iz like OMG wurst grammer I of like evar scene

The way some people care more about spelling then telling smh

Basically, the Pats completely cooperated when they didn't think there was any evidence that Brady did anything wrong. However, once they found out about the texts from McNally, they pulled all support for the investigation and started stonewalling.

This, this, more this and this.

The article was a trainwreck of misinformation. The last two points were clearly misrepresented beyond belief. As was mentioned, the Pats made the attendant available for interviews until the text messages came back. Then they went, uh oh, no more and pulled the rug out. Brady didn't cooperate with the text messages ever.

And I'm beyond sick of people stating the report didn't prove Tom Brady knew. The only way it doesn't show it is if you have no comprehension of how evidence or how investigations work.

Let me put it this way. If I decide to a rob a bank with two of my best friends and my two idiot friends decide to text each other back and forth about it and my involvement in it, I hope to God I get some complete idiot like the writer of this article on my jury.

They mention him by name, they talk about signed merch, they joke about going to ESPN. These guys were NOT doing this garbage on their own. The text messages are the smoking gun and there is no way around it.

Hell, the best Brady's agent can come up with is that it was a sting operation and the NFL was out to get him. (Note: he's not saying Brady didn't do it, he's saying the NFL should have warned him before so Brady would have not done it) That guy gets paid to spew that nonsense, how in the hell does a rational adult believe it?

nd I'm beyond sick of people stating the report didn't prove Tom Brady knew. The only way it doesn't show it is if you have no comprehension of how evidence or how investigations work.

I mostly agree, but when the NFL's own findings say 'probable' -- there's a reason it says probable not definitely. But little doubt in my mind that he's guilty as charged, my only issue is with the punishment and inconsistency.

I mostly agree, but when the NFL's own findings say 'probable' -- there's a reason it says probable not definitely. But little doubt in my mind that he's guilty as charged, my only issue is with the punishment and inconsistency.

But it's just wording. Like the "theory" of evolution

The guy was wording it like how he would convict in a civil trial. The wording means Brady would be convicted. I personally read the report and find it beyond a reasonable doubt. Not because I hate Brady or the Patriots, but because it's obvious what those texts mean and it would take a daft idiot to think these guys were acting on their own.

But it's just wording. Like the "theory" of evolution

The guy was wording it like how he would convict in a civil trial. The wording means Brady would be convicted. I personally read the report and find it beyond a reasonable doubt. Not because I hate Brady or the Patriots, but because it's obvious what those texts mean and it would take a daft idiot to think these guys were acting on their own.

You bring up an interesting point here, as I realize I've kind of been looking at this through the lens of a criminal case, and the evidence against Brady doesn't meet my definition of beyond a reasonable doubt....but it's certainly well past the 50% "balance of probability" necessary for a civil judgment, and I think it could certainly be argued that the process & penalties are closer to civil rather than criminal. Is there a defined standard of proof/guilt the NFL uses in these type of investigations?

The NFL's standard for wrongdoing is in fact "more probable than not," which is why that phrase was so heavily used in the Wells report. Wells was indicating that Brady met the NFL's standard.

Unfortunately that language has led to a fair bit of confusion with many thinking that phrase is much more flimsy or equivocal than it really is.

The NFL's standard for wrongdoing is in fact "more probable than not," which is why that phrase was so heavily used in the Wells report. Wells was indicating that Brady met the NFL's standard.

Unfortunately that language has led to a fair bit of confusion with many thinking that phrase is much more flimsy or equivocal than it really is.

Interesting. I will admit that pretty much changes my take entirely. I was bristling under the idea of Brady's guilt being "beyond a doubt", but I have no argument with the idea that he was more likely guilty than not.

It's slightly sad, but not at all unsurprising that folks struggle with the idea of "more probable than not", and the distinction between civil and criminal law, considering how litigious we are as a country. I was pretty much ignorant & confused on the whole subject, until a few long, forced bouts of jury duty.

That's the same burden of proof used in most civil proceedings. For example, in my many cases I've adjudicated across bunches of colleges, more probable than not results in a sanction.

Pats' Ballghazi Defense: "The Deflator" Was Just Trying To Lose Weight (http://deadspin.com/pats-ballghazi-defense-the-deflator-was-just-trying-1704476913?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)

Pats' Ballghazi Defense: "The Deflator" Was Just Trying To Lose Weight (http://deadspin.com/pats-ballghazi-defense-the-deflator-was-just-trying-1704476913?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)

Probably opened themselves up to a lawsuit since the team already suspended them.

I want to talk to the 10% of respondents in the poll who don't think Brady or the Patriots cheated yet still agree with the NFL's penalty.

I read the entire response from the Patriots, including the discussion of gas law and gauges. I'm still not convinced McNally deflated the footballs after they were checked.

So far, all we have are suspicious text messages, a really awkward press conference, 1:40 of bathroom time and the assumption that the Referee used one gauge for Colts footballs and the other gauge for Patriots footballs and doesn't remember doing that.

Is that enough to suspend a guy for four games and take away draft picks?

I read the entire response from the Patriots, including the discussion of gas law and gauges. I'm still not convinced McNally deflated the footballs after they were checked.

So far, all we have are suspicious text messages, a really awkward press conference, 1:40 of bathroom time and the assumption that the Referee used one gauge for Colts footballs and the other gauge for Patriots footballs and doesn't remember doing that.

Is that enough to suspend a guy for four games and take away draft picks?

What was the guy going to go to ESPN about? Losing weight? the referee? The colts?

This one statement cannot be ignored and only has one answer by anybody looking at this situation with an ounce of common sense.

I read the entire response from the Patriots, including the discussion of gas law and gauges. I'm still not convinced McNally deflated the footballs after they were checked.

So far, all we have are suspicious text messages, a really awkward press conference, 1:40 of bathroom time and the assumption that the Referee used one gauge for Colts footballs and the other gauge for Patriots footballs and doesn't remember doing that.

Is that enough to suspend a guy for four games and take away draft picks?
Heh. Suspicious!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Text message exchange between two Pats employees about Tom Brady &amp; getting his footballs ready. Damn. <a href="http://t.co/oGBksapACj">pic.twitter.com/oGBksapACj</a></p>&mdash; Jimmy Traina (@JimmyTraina) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimmyTraina/status/596001419762634752">May 6, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What was the guy going to go to ESPN about? Losing weight? the referee? The colts?

This one statement cannot be ignored and only has one answer by anybody looking at this situation with an ounce of common sense.

I'm assuming he thought he was going to look so handsome after he lost weight , that he was simply promising to not quit and host Sports Center.

If the weight loss thing is what we did get, I'm dying to know which excuses didn't make the cut after the 72 hour huddle session they went through.

If the weight loss thing is what we did get, I'm dying to know which excuses didn't make the cut after the 72 hour huddle session they went through.:D

I don't know. I've read way too many of their text messages. They don't make a lot of sense from any perspective.

If Wells had proven the footballs were deflated by someone, I'd be inclined to agree that so much idiocy probably added up to cheating. But that doesn't explain the facts of the case.

I don't know. I've read way too many of their text messages. They don't make a lot of sense from any perspective.

If Wells had proven the footballs were deflated by someone, I'd be inclined to agree that so much idiocy probably added up to cheating. But that doesn't explain the facts of the case.

If the pats did nothing wrong then why did they suspend the 2 equipment guys?

I don't know. I thought the league had banned them, not the team. Was there an additional suspension?

The Patriots fired the guys they’re passionately defending today | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/the-patriots-fired-the-guys-theyre-passionately-defending-today/)

Does "indefinite suspension" = fired? Either way, it was the Patriots acting here, not the league.

If the pats did nothing wrong then why did they suspend the 2 equipment guys?

That is the big question and one I'd like to seen asked of Robert Kraft.

On the other hand, if those two were in on a scheme with Brady, Kraft should want to keep them employed with the club (and under his thumb).

Maybe Kraft is losing his marbles? Because suspending and then firing two people who did nothing wrong doesn't make much sense.

If the pats did nothing wrong then why did they suspend the 2 equipment guys?

forget about what they are talking about. their texts were incredibly unprofessional and disrespectful. Whether they prove anything or not, I think most teams would have done the same.

I thought for sure the play here was "The NFL referees provide wildly different PSI footballs, including some near 16 PSI above the league maximum, and Tom Brady asked our equipment managers to maintain them uniformly at the league minimum 12.5 PSI. According to the PSI gauge referee Walt Anderson thought he used they were right in the expected range during the Colts game once atmospheric conditions were taken into account. There is zero evidence that Tom Brady knowingly encouraged any rule breaking, and zero evidence that the organization was involved. The fact that Roger Goodell allowed the AFC Championship game to be played instead of instituting a fail-safe system, and the Wells Report concluding that Anderson used the gauge he specifically recalled not using points to a pre-determined outcome that will doubtlessly be reduced or eliminated by an independent arbitrator.

Also, we fired those nitwits because when asked to do their job and they suspected it might be illegal they extorted the player instead of voicing their concerns to Bill Belichick or Scott Pioli."

I haven't read anything beyond that deadspin excerpt, but no idea what the Patriots or Jim G are talking about. The funny thing is I'm convinced Brady conspired with the equipment guys to do something illegal but I'm not convinced the balls were actually illegal.

Reports are saying Goodell is going to hear the appeal himself.

Reports are saying Goodell is going to hear the appeal himself.Hahaha this is surreal. At this point I hope we go to CAS or sue the NFL in federal court.

I love how Mike Florio blogs about stuff like this and manages to advocate for every single outcome simultaneously in an attempt to pretend to appear to be neutral. When in reality he's just a clickbait hack lawyer.

Reports are saying Goodell is going to hear the appeal himself.

Cue Judge Dredd...I am the Lawr!

Hahaha this is surreal. At this point I hope we go to CAS or sue the NFL in federal court.

The Player's Union wanted every penny they could get and collectively bargained that he could hear appeals himself, so there should be no complaints about this.

It would take 24 teams to oust Roger. I can think of 6(prob the 3teams that want to move to LA, prob Minnesota and obviously NO and NE). Any others?

The Player's Union wanted every penny they could get and collectively bargained that he could hear appeals himself, so there should be no complaints about this.I'm thinking more than Patriots than Brady, although Brady could sue post-appeal, as both Vilma and Peterson did (and has a much better chance of winning). The Patriots pursuing legal action (or pushing for a congressional hearing) would be unprecedented in the U.S., but we've seen European teams take things to CAS often recently. At this point it'd just be the next illogical step for this drama to take.

Deflategate: What are Brady's, Patriots' options for fighting back? - NFL - SI.com (http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/12/deflategate-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-legal-options?page=2&devicetype=phone)

Yeah have fun with that. It's amazing that some Pats fans could read that pile of horseshit the team just spewed, with the "deflate = weight loss" being the most impossibly blazing red flag imaginable, and not apply any common sense as to what happened. I give credit to those Pats fans who are not blinded by team loyalty.

But for the rest of you, keep fucking that chicken. One day hopefully for your own benefit you'll come to your senses.

But for the rest of you, keep fucking that chicken



Generally, the South has cornered the market on animal-based regional sayings. But this one is new to me. According to Urban Dictionary, it is an NYC thing. Wonder if it's spread anywhere else.

I love language.



Back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .

Generally, the South has cornered the market on animal-based regional sayings. But this one is new to me. According to Urban Dictionary, it is an NYC thing. Wonder if it's spread anywhere else.

I love language.





I've only read it on this board previously. I like it though.

Generally, the South has cornered the market on animal-based regional sayings. But this one is new to me. According to Urban Dictionary, it is an NYC thing. Wonder if it's spread anywhere else.

I love language.



Back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .

I didn't realize it was only an NYC saying, as I thought it got a lot of internet play back when it happened. But it was definitely the great Ernie Anastos that uttered the phrase on NY network news and I know about 3 anchors by name, so was memorable even before his gaffe.

Patriots Reveal Jaguars Caught Colts Ball Boys With Ball Needles On Sideline | New England Patriots | NESN.com (http://nesn.com/2015/05/patriots-told-wells-that-jaguars-caught-colts-ballboys-with-ball-needles-on-sideline/)

It's time for Goodell to drop the hammer on Andrew Luck and the Colts.

“Evidence was also provided that Indianapolis ball boys, in a prior season, had been seen by Jacksonville personnel with ball needles hidden under their long sleeves,” the Patriots wrote in “The Wells Report in Context.”

“Once the game starts, neither team is allowed to gauge the footballs, pump them, or the like. That is solely the province of the referee, who is to be the ‘sole judge’ of whether footballs comply,” the Patriots wrote. “The Colts, with advance concerns about psi, did not take the issue to the referee. They took the matter into their own hands and had an intern gauge the football. (pg. 63) This conduct was in violation of Rule 2. Nowhere does the Report identify this conduct as a violation of the Rule.”

Well, I'd say that the Wells Report isn't about the Colts or any other team. Using "well everyone else is doing it", is a pretty weak defense.

The Patriots are sending a ton of mixed signals here. We didn't do anything wrong yet suspend then fire the two equipment people involved and pulling out "well everyone else is doing it" seem like odd actions/statements from a team that believes it did nothing wrong.

Yeah have fun with that. It's amazing that some Pats fans could read that pile of horseshit the team just spewed, with the "deflate = weight loss" being the most impossibly blazing red flag imaginable, and not apply any common sense as to what happened. I give credit to those Pats fans who are not blinded by team loyalty.

But for the rest of you, keep fucking that chicken. One day hopefully for your own benefit you'll come to your senses.Like I said, I have no idea why the Patriots are using that as their defense, and think Brady clearly conspired with the 2 guys to at least lower ball pressure to the league minimum (the ball boys doing this on their own is about as likely as Troy Vincent deciding the Patriots punishment with no input from Goodell). But I also see no evidence the Patriots played with illegally inflated balls in that Colts game - the balls were right in the expected range according to the gauge Walt Anderson thought he used. It doesn't matter how bad the cover up is if there was no initial crime.

Fwiw, I got the KFTC reference. It's in the vernacular up here!

Like I said, I have no idea why the Patriots are using that as their defenseIs it possible that it's merely to keep the die-hards in the fold? ("We know that a good majority of our fanbase will buy anything at this point, so let's just feed 'em something.") I'm not necessarily saying that's the thought process, but as bizarre as some parts of the rebuttal are, I'm not sure I'd be surprised by anything right now...

The Player's Union wanted every penny they could get and collectively bargained that he could hear appeals himself, so there should be no complaints about this.It's also in the CBA that only the Commissioner can impose penalties for "conduct detrimental to the league" and can't delegate that authority to anyone (a.k.a. Vincent). Goodell's also going to be called as a witness, which kind of necessitates a 3rd party according to the legal system, which supersedes any CBA.

Is it possible that it's merely to keep the die-hards in the fold? ("We know that a good majority of our fanbase will buy anything at this point, so let's just feed 'em something.") I'm not necessarily saying that's the thought process, but as bizarre as some parts of the rebuttal are, I'm not sure I'd be surprised by anything right now...I wouldn't even be surprised at this point if that specific claim (that McNally referred to himself as the deflator for weight loss reasons) turned out to be true. It just sounds so dumb, and the Patriots/lawyers had to know how the public would perceive it. Or maybe Kraft is going senile.

Btw, the extraneous texts included in that report that show how big idiots those two are or when they're talking about their wives is 100% why I'm in Brady's camp on not turning over his cell phone. Embarrassing things unrelated to the case would have been included in the report or leaked without a doubt.

The Patriots fired the guys they’re passionately defending today | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/the-patriots-fired-the-guys-theyre-passionately-defending-today/)

Does "indefinite suspension" = fired? Either way, it was the Patriots acting here, not the league.

I'm still on indefinite suspension from three jobs.

I wouldn't even be surprised at this point if that specific claim (that McNally referred to himself as the deflator for weight loss reasons) turned out to be true. It just sounds so dumb, and the Patriots/lawyers had to know how the public would perceive it. Or maybe Kraft is going senile.

Btw, the extraneous texts included in that report that show how big idiots those two are or when they're talking about their wives is 100% why I'm in Brady's camp on not turning over his cell phone. Embarrassing things unrelated to the case would have been included in the report or leaked without a doubt.

Except they didn't ask him to turn over his phone.

The kitchen sink defense isn't very useful for public consumption. Just looks like grasping at anything, everything. But that's what you do in court.

I'm more interested in the physics. If the NFL is going to implement these unprecedented penalties, they need to show that the footballs were altered after the inspection. That part of the defense is more compelling. Is their citing of ideal gas law accurate?

Is their citing of ideal gas law accurate?
Bill Nye the Science Guy was quick to debunk Belichick. So, no, it can't be accurate. It was all over the news back in January that it could not be atmospheric conditions. The only explanation was tampering.

I agree with BishopMVP that the very obvious rebuttal was to go with the angle that the officials frequently over-inflate the game balls. I believe there were even reports along these lines when this first came out following the Colts game and this is also supported by the text messages and that McNally merely checks the balls and insures that they have not been overinflated. This is supported by the evidence from the testing completed at half time with the Logo Gauge, which is the gauge that Walt Anderson himself stated he believed that he used.

Bill Nye the Science Guy was quick to debunk Belichick. So, no, it can't be accurate. It was all over the news back in January that it could not be atmospheric conditions. The only explanation was tampering.

The report does make reference to accepting the Ideal Gas Law and states that the balls should have been between 11.32 and 11.52 PSI at half time.

According
to Exponent, based on the most likely pressure and temperature values for the Patriots game balls
on the day of the AFC Championship Game (i.e., a starting pressure of 12.5 psi, a starting
temperature of between 67 and 71 degrees and a final temperature of 48 degrees), the Ideal Gas
Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end
of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. Most of the
individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range
predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

The emphasis in bold is mine and an interesting statement. Going off the Logo Gauge, eight of the Patriots 11 balls were within the 11.32 to 11.52 range and the eleven balls averaged an 11.49 PSI. I think that strongly contradicts the statement that most of the balls were lower than the predicted range, unless you describe 3 of 11 as "most." The Logo Gauge is the one that Walt Anderson believed that he used to measure the balls with before the game.

Funnily, the Wells Report credits Anderson's recollection of the ball inflation levels from before the game (none of which were recorded) but then basically says that he was mistaken when he believed that he used the Logo Gauge and says that he probably used the Non-Logo Gauge. The report quite often seems to pick and choose which pieces of information it wants to use and believe. Even taking an average of the 22 readings of the eleven balls using the Logo and Non-Logo Gauge, the average is 11.30, which is .02 psi below the predicted range.

Bill Nye the Science Guy was quick to debunk Belichick. So, no, it can't be accurate. It was all over the news back in January that it could not be atmospheric conditions. The only explanation was tampering.

Bill Nye Says 'Give A F**k' About Climate Change Instead Of Deflategate (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/27/bill-nye-deflategate-climate-change_n_6559778.html)

That wasn't very professional. It might be correct, but it didn't seem like a serious attempt to discuss the physics.

The gauge thing bothers me. So does the idea that someone would risk getting caught removing .2 lb psi, assuming the referee was mistaken in his recollection of which gauge he used.