This is clearly an off-season topic so the Hot Stove League begins.

Reds are actively trying to trade Brandon Phillips who has apparently become a real problem.

The Real McCoy | www.daytondailynews.com (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2013/10/19/for_sale_sign_on_phillips_neck.html/)

The leading rumor seems to be Atlanta ... but I have an incredibly tough time seeing that happening. The Braves historically shun players who have any personality at all, much less a personality as volatile as Phillips.

Maybe it's a different clubhouse with Chipper gone though, might be willing to acquire a player that doesn't hunt, dip or mudbog.

LA is already looking at locking up Kershaw. Good for them. I was thinking 5/6yr deal, but this seems to blow that idea out of the water.

Clayton Kershaw offered deal in $300M range by Los Angeles Dodgers, source says - ESPN Los Angeles (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/9849972/clayton-kershaw-offered-deal-300m-range-los-angeles-dodgers-source-says)

The Los Angeles Dodgers offered left-hander Clayton Kershaw essentially a lifetime contract in the range of $300 million -- "an A-Rod deal" -- earlier this season, according to a source with knowledge of its scope and structure.

I saw that yesterday and $300M seems insane for any player, but especially a pitcher. I hope Uncle Neddy does it because if LA actually spent their money wisely, the rest of baseball could be in trouble.

SI

I predict the Royals will lock in some mediocre talent for too much, trade too many prospects for players not worth what they gave away, and pat themselves on the back for it

The only unexpected part is which names to plug into the mad lib. Do they sign Cruz to a stupid deal to get a "run producer" or do they do something like trade for Phillips or Kinsler, not realizing that those guys aren't worth the salary they will be making for the life of the contract? Do they overpay to keep Ervin Santana and buy high after the smart buy low last offseason? Do they tender players like Luke Hochevar and Emilio Bonifacio despite the fact that they won't be worth their arbitration salaries?

It's now "will Dayton screw things up" but "how"

SI

I predict that LA brings in some more offensive punch, trades Either, signs a new 2b, and 3b, and locks up Kershaw.

I predict that LA brings in some more offensive punch, trades Either, signs a new 2b, and 3b, and locks up Kershaw.

Even more concerning, god tends to send plagues in sets of ten. This would just be the first...

This is clearly an off-season topic so the Hot Stove League begins.

Reds are actively trying to trade Brandon Phillips who has apparently become a real problem.

The Real McCoy | www.daytondailynews.com (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2013/10/19/for_sale_sign_on_phillips_neck.html/)

The Reds have to make some difficult choices. As is they need to somehow improve while losing their second best hitter. There isn't any help for 2014 in the minors and at best the Reds will have 10 mil to spend. The only way to improve is to trade pieces of the lineup and hope the production plus savings improve the team.

This will be Jocketty's most difficult off-season.

Reports coming out that Tim Lincecum will test the free agent market. Local stations claiming that this is just posturing and negotiations, but I have a sad feeling that Timmy will be pitching in a different uniform next year.

Apparently the Giants offered him a two year deal, and he didn't like that idea. I'm assuming it's going to take 3+ years at around $45M total to get him.

I saw that yesterday and $300M seems insane for any player, but especially a pitcher. I hope Uncle Neddy does it because if LA actually spent their money wisely, the rest of baseball could be in trouble.

SI

The dodgers are printing money at this point and Kershaw needs to be signed. Not sure this constitutes unwise.

The dodgers are printing money at this point and Kershaw needs to be signed. Not sure this constitutes unwise.

I think he is referring to the ease at which they are spending money at this point. As in, if they went for more value picks and improved all the areas with that money, instead of spending wildly here and there.

Clearly the massive salary that they took on over the last year and a half will not continue. The team needed names that would put butts back in the seats and put some marks in the W column. They achieved that, and then some.

I think that they will move more toward the value picks here and there, while not being afraid to spend the big money to bring in the guys, more like the Yankees have done in the past. I wouldn't expect them to just blow money out the window to just grab the biggest names that happen to be available.

The leading rumor seems to be Atlanta ... but I have an incredibly tough time seeing that happening. The Braves historically shun players who have any personality at all, much less a personality as volatile as Phillips.

Maybe it's a different clubhouse with Chipper gone though, might be willing to acquire a player that doesn't hunt, dip or mudbog.

Wouldn't that guarantee the exit of McCann? Maybe that is the case anyway but there is no way Phillips and McCann co-exist in Turner Field much less the Braves clubhouse.

Wouldn't that guarantee the exit of McCann? Maybe that is the case anyway but there is no way Phillips and McCann co-exist in Turner Field much less the Braves clubhouse.

i didnt think the braves were even considering McCann at this point...

I think he is referring to the ease at which they are spending money at this point. As in, if they went for more value picks and improved all the areas with that money, instead of spending wildly here and there.

Clearly the massive salary that they took on over the last year and a half will not continue. The team needed names that would put butts back in the seats and put some marks in the W column. They achieved that, and then some.

I think that they will move more toward the value picks here and there, while not being afraid to spend the big money to bring in the guys, more like the Yankees have done in the past. I wouldn't expect them to just blow money out the window to just grab the biggest names that happen to be available.

Well, I cant think of one big name signing that they'll be making in this offseason. Cano is possibly, but unless he learns to play third and takes half as many years, it's probably not a match

i didnt think the braves were even considering McCann at this point...

I believe they might give it lip service but that's about it. I don't expect him to be back.

I don't expect the Dodgers to be big players in free agency this year. They're not going to give Cano ten years, and if the contract is 5 years, I expect the Yankees to win that bid anyway.

OTOH, there's talks of trading for Price and I think that's just as unrealistic. The farm doesn't have the pieces to be a big player in the trade market right now, either. Lock up Kershaw. You've then got Kershaw, Greinke and Ryu for sure in the rotation with Billingsley and Beckett coming back. If you don't trust either one of them to be ready to go for Opening Day, either retain Nolasco or see about Tanaka in international free agency. Stephen Fife is also a #5 starter option who could give the Dodgers solid innings without being an eight figure salary.

Offensively, the issues are going to be 2B and 3B. If you can get a cromulent 2B bat without breaking the bank, you can try to retain Uribe for defense (or find another glove-first 3B type). I'm not looking for All-Star offensive production. Just...not an offensive liability.

Not sure the Dodgers should be looking to trade away OFs at this point. Crawford, Kemp and Ethier all have health-related question marks.

If you move one, you remove one of those question marks, but then you still have to find offense to slot in there for when one of the other two misses time in 2014 (as you have to assume one or both will, and then hope you get lucky and they DON'T).

The Dodgers should sign Arroyo. He'd be a great 4th starter for them.

Cardinals need a SS and a CFer. A LH SP would be nice as well.
I imagine they will sign Beltran to a one year deal.

Cards have lots of trade bait. Young pitchers that need to be moved. SP Lynn will probably be traded.

I do believe the Dodgers are trying to sign that Cuban 2B, but who knows if he can make the transition.

NATS need... a manager, and a 5th starter.

I have no idea what the Phillies will do this off-season. . .except continue their descent into mediocrity.

Which is as it should be.

2008 must still sting, huh?

Fuck the Phillies. That's all I'm sayin'. :)

Fuck the Phillies. That's all I'm sayin'. :)

+1

The Yankees have a lot of money coming off the books so I expect them to make a splash. If A-Rod is suspended for all of 2014 then that's another $27 million for them to spend. Besides re-signing Cano I think they'll go after McCann and if they can't get Granderson back for cheap they'll try to get Beltran. They desperately need a C and RF. Probably need a SP as well. They want to get under $189 million but will still have a lot to spend.

Mets won't do anything with the money they have. I'm done.

Jimmy L is stepping down.

Reports coming out that Tim Lincecum will test the free agent market. Local stations claiming that this is just posturing and negotiations, but I have a sad feeling that Timmy will be pitching in a different uniform next year.

Apparently the Giants offered him a two year deal, and he didn't like that idea. I'm assuming it's going to take 3+ years at around $45M total to get him.

COME TO BOSTON TIMMAH!!!!!!

LA is already looking at locking up Kershaw. Good for them. I was thinking 5/6yr deal, but this seems to blow that idea out of the water.

Clayton Kershaw offered deal in $300M range by Los Angeles Dodgers, source says - ESPN Los Angeles (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/9849972/clayton-kershaw-offered-deal-300m-range-los-angeles-dodgers-source-says)

Did they learn nothing from the Giants Zito-deal?

Jimmy L is stepping down.

Thank God.

Did they learn nothing from the Giants Zito-deal?

Kershaw is like vastly better than Zito ever was.

Thank God.

Yes, because the Tigers had so much success before he got here. Clearly, he was the problem.

When was the last time the Tigers made it to the post-season before Leyland was managing? Last time they made it to the ALCS? The World Series?

Yes, because the Tigers had so much success before he got here. Clearly, he was the problem.

When was the last time the Tigers made it to the post-season before Leyland was managing? Last time they made it to the ALCS? The World Series?

It's all because of Leyland? Not Verlander, Cabrera, etc?

Interestingly enough, Detroit is Leyland's first managerial job where he's had a winning record.

Yes, because the Tigers had so much success before he got here. Clearly, he was the problem.

When was the last time the Tigers made it to the post-season before Leyland was managing? Last time they made it to the ALCS? The World Series?

How many games has Leyland thrown away because of his stubborn, old-fashioined, bone-headed moves and non-moves? A hell of a lot more than he's won.

He was given it all to win, and he didn't do everything he could have with it. If the Tigers weren't in the AL Central, the Tigers would have been lucky to make the playoffs after '06.

How many games has Leyland thrown away because of his stubborn, old-fashioined, bone-headed moves and non-moves? A hell of a lot more than he's won.

He was given it all to win, and he didn't do everything he could have with it. If the Tigers weren't in the AL Central, the Tigers would have been lucky to make the playoffs after '06.

He's easily the best manager the Tigers have had since Sparky Anderson.

While it's possible whoever replaces Leyland will be an upgrade, I think it's unlikely.

He took far too much blame for losses and never much credit for wins. I believe he played a large role in the Tigers' success these past few years.

He took far too much blame for losses and never much credit for wins. I believe he played a large role in the Tigers' success these past few years.

If he had a mediocre roster, I would agree with you; however, he was given all the tools and players anyone could have wanted, and he was just ok.

Anyway, we'll just have to disagree.

Kershaw is like vastly better than Zito ever was.

Still. How often have ginormous "lifetime deals" to pitchers ever worked out?

The next one will be the first.

Too much risk.

The Sabathia deal has worked out pretty damned well for the Yankees - even with his below par season this year.

If he had a mediocre roster, I would agree with you; however, he was given all the tools and players anyone could have wanted, and he was just ok.

Anyway, we'll just have to disagree.
So making it to the ALCS is just ok?

So making it to the ALCS is just ok?

With this roster? Yes. Barely.

Scioscia makes stupid decisions all the time, and he is stubborn as hell. He overvalues defensive ability behind the plate at the cost of offensive ability. He plays too many punch and judy hitters over more powerful hitters (when he has them). The Angels have not won the AL West since 2009 and have missed the playoffs four years running, which is maddening for a team with this payroll.

All that said, no way in hell would I consider firing Scioscia.

You Detroit fans will miss Jim Leyland if you don't get an absolute stud to replace him.

The odds of any MLB team winning any playoff series have to be right around 50%, maybe bumped up slightly due to starting pitching and home field advantage. (It looks like the Red Sox were very slight Vegas favorites in the ALCS). It seems like a lot of evaluation of managers is based on these series coin flips. Unless there's some glaring decision you can point too (like maybe Grady Little in '03), I don't think you can really blame a manager for almost any playoff series loss.

He's easily the best manager the Tigers have had since Sparky Anderson.

While it's possible whoever replaces Leyland will be an upgrade, I think it's unlikely.

He took far too much blame for losses and never much credit for wins. I believe he played a large role in the Tigers' success these past few years.

I tend to agree with Schmidty here. Leyland did not do near enough with the talent and payroll that he had at his disposal. With an owner like Illitch, who put so much into this team to win a world series, Leyland was ultimately a failure in Detroit. Getting blown out in 2 world series and winning a mediocre AL central is just not good enough.

Now, who comes in to take over a loaded team with some bullpen issues and a bloated contract for a bloated player (Fielder)? It looks to be a great gig despite those issues, but who will it be?

Scioscia makes stupid decisions all the time, and he is stubborn as hell. He overvalues defensive ability behind the plate at the cost of offensive ability. He plays too many punch and judy hitters over more powerful hitters (when he has them). The Angels have not won the AL West since 2009 and have missed the playoffs four years running, which is maddening for a team with this payroll.

All that said, no way in hell would I consider firing Scioscia.

You Detroit fans will miss Jim Leyland if you don't get an absolute stud to replace him.

I'd love to have Scioscia back in Dodger blue. That's where he belongs anyway.

The odds of any MLB team winning any playoff series have to be right around 50%, maybe bumped up slightly due to starting pitching and home field advantage. (It looks like the Red Sox were very slight Vegas favorites in the ALCS). It seems like a lot of evaluation of managers is based on these series coin flips. Unless there's some glaring decision you can point too (like maybe Grady Little in '03), I don't think you can really blame a manager for almost any playoff series loss.

FUCKING GRADY LITTLE!!!!

Dodgers lock up Cuban infielder.

Los Angeles Dodgers reach deal with Cuban infield prospect Alexander Guerrero | MLB.com: News (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers-reach-deal-with-cuban-infield-prospect-alexander-guerrero?ymd=20131021&content_id=63202616&vkey=news_mlb)

dola

Mattingly goes public over frustrations dealing with contract status after team source says he will be back. Maybe they'll have second thoughts now?

Don Mattingly of Los Angeles Dodgers uncertain of return despite option - ESPN Los Angeles (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/9859713/don-mattingly-los-angeles-dodgers-uncertain-return-option)

ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Let him go manage someone else.

Still. How often have ginormous "lifetime deals" to pitchers ever worked out?

The next one will be the first.

Too much risk.

How many three..err..two time Cy Young winners have come across FA when they are 26?

Yes, they don't "work" but it's not like long contracts have been around since 1920

How many three..err..two time Cy Young winners

Damn right.

Bryan Price to be named Reds manager. Ok.

ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Let him go manage someone else.

You know this just means that Dusty Baker will be the new Dodgers manager, right? Be careful what you wish for...

I saw that yesterday and $300M seems insane for any player, but especially a pitcher. I hope Uncle Neddy does it because if LA actually spent their money wisely, the rest of baseball could be in trouble. They never said how it was structured. If it was truly set up as a "lifetime" deal, like 15 year contract and a lot of deferred money it makes more sense for Kershaw to go for like a 7 year contract that tops $200 mil and potentially makes him a free agent again at 33. If they're willing to pay Ethier $17m and Grienke $24.5m/year, Kershaw is probably worth $30m/year to LA.Dodgers lock up Cuban infielder.

Los Angeles Dodgers reach deal with Cuban infield prospect Alexander Guerrero | MLB.com: News (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers-reach-deal-with-cuban-infield-prospect-alexander-guerrero?ymd=20131021&content_id=63202616&vkey=news_mlb)

If Guerrero's getting $8m/year, I find it crazy the market for Abreu wasn't higher. And Robinson Cano can't be happy that deal got finalized - he'll probably still get the Yankees to bid against themselves like they did with A-Rod, but there's really no plausible big-market suitor at this point. (Maybe the Cubs if the owners feel the need to make a splash? Or Detroit if Illitch wants to completely mortgage the future?)COME TO BOSTON TIMMAH!!!!!!
Why? He's got a ERA close to 5 over the last 2 years pitching in the NL West, and we've got all 6 starters coming back, plus good AAA depth with Workman+De La Rosa (if they don't keep them in the bullpen)/Webster/Ranaudo/Wright/Barnes/Owens.

Red Sox basically have 4 free agents, and I think all of them will get Qualifying Offers (a.k.a. the option to sign a 1-yr contract for around $14m, Sox get a supplemental 1st round pick if they sign elsewhere.) Joel Hanrahan's also gonna be an FA, so I wouldn't mind signing him on an incentive-laden deal - just please no more trades for closers.

- Ellsbury CF - love the guy when healthy, but he's gone and JBJ will take over. JBJ won't be as good as healthy Ellsbury, but for the $15-$20m/y savings you take the trade off. The big questions for teams chasing him is whether you think he's injury-prone or just missed 1.5 of the last 4 years due to fluke injuries (Beltre running into him, etc), and whether any of that power comes back (32 HR's in 2010 is literally half his career total).

- Napoli 1B - I was hoping for Jose Dariel Abreu here, who I think will be a legit 30-35 HR bat, but now we might as well re-sign Napoli on a 1-2 year deal. Other options are having a Nava/Carp platoon, or trading for someone (how down is SF on Brandon Belt?)

- Saltalamacchia C - Had an unsustainably high BABIP this year and his OBP will crater next year imo. If he signs the QO it's not the worst thing in the world because McCann is probably the only clearly better catcher out there, but I don't want him on a long-term deal and won't be sad if he signs elsewhere.

- Drew SS - Xander will be starting from Day 1 next year. Offer Drew the QO and make it clear he'll be in a platoon with Bogaerts/WMB, and I think he'll walk because he wants to be a starter, so we get that extra 1st round pick. On the off chance he does take the short-term money, we have great coverage at SS/3B and we can just trade him in spring training/early in the season if he's complaining.

The four FAs are Ellsbury, Naps, Salt and Drew?

No way they all get qualifying. Only Ellsbury is likely to get one, and certainly only Ellsbury deserves one. Those others are all under $10 M/year players.

Napoli will certainly get one. Salty will most likely because I think they'd prefer 1/14 for him over a long term contract. Drew will be interesting because a QO will kill his market.

If an average player is going to get around 14/year in the upcoming market then Napoli will definitely get one.

If you think those are all sub-10M players I think you might be reading the market wrong.

Fangraphs did their free agent crowdsourcing project: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-crowd-the-top-47-free-agents/

Predictions are:
Ellsbury 6/112
Salty 4/44
Napoli 3/39
Drew 3/33

Napoli will certainly get one. Salty will most likely because I think they'd prefer 1/14 for him over a long term contract. Drew will be interesting because a QO will kill his market.

If an average player is going to get around 14/year in the upcoming market then Napoli will definitely get one.

If you think those are all sub-10M players I think you might be reading the market wrong.

I think you might be reading your franchise wrong actually. It's not about average player salary, it's about relative worth. You're saying the Red Sox are willing to pay $56 M to those four players next year, at minimum, including a player with a young player ready to replace him in Drew, and a 1B/DH (he's not a C) who's only real attribute is he has some power in Napoli. And when you consider Ellsbury is more likely to nab a deal in the $18-20 M range, you're looking at $60 M next year for those four players.

Salt you might get that because he is a legit C with hitting ability, but even that, I don't think he is so much better than you could get signing a bargain basement guy for much cheaper, like $6 or $7 M.

I am pretty certain Ellsbury is the only guy in that group who will be over $14 M per year, even for one year.

Fangraphs did their free agent crowdsourcing project: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-crowd-the-top-47-free-agents/

Predictions are:
Ellsbury 6/112
Salty 4/44
Napoli 3/39
Drew 3/33

Only Ellsbury there projects to $14 M plus.

Do I see those players getting those deals from someone? Sure. But not the Red Sox. The Red Sox aren't going to want to offer $14 M to Drew for even 1 year when Bogarts is ready to go. There's too much risk Drew will actually accept the offer. And the Red Sox can replace Napoli and Salt with roughly comparable ability players for less than $14 M for one year or those deals above. They won't spend that money on those players, nor will they risk having those players return at $14 M in 2014 when that money is best spent elsewhere.

Ellsbury is gone, the QO is academic.

I guess we'll agree to disagree, but I think a large number of teams would love Napoli at 1/14. He's not a C - he didn't play a single inning at C. He was, however, a surprisingly good 1B in the field who hits.

Who is this bargain basement C or 1B we'd get for half the amount? We've got the money easily to fit both Nap and Salty on QO and they represent a much smaller risk than the guys below.

Catchers

Henry Blanco (42)
John Buck (33)
Hector Gimenez (31)
Ramon Hernandez (38)
Brian McCann (30)
Jose Molina (38)
Dioner Navarro (30)
Wil Nieves (36)
Miguel Olivo (35)
Brayan Pena (32)
A.J. Pierzynski (37)
Humberto Quintero (34)
Guillermo Quiroz (32)
Carlos Ruiz (35)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (29)
Kelly Shoppach (34)
Geovany Soto (31)
Kurt Suzuki (30) - $8.5MM club option with a $650K buyout
Taylor Teagarden (30)
Yorvit Torrealba (35)

First basemen

Jeff Baker (33)
Yuniesky Betancourt (32)
Corey Hart (32)
Paul Konerko (38)
Casey Kotchman (31)
Brandon Laird (26)
Adam Lind (30) - $7MM club option with a $2MM buyout
James Loney (30)
Casey McGehee (31)
Kendrys Morales (30)
Justin Morneau (33)
Mike Napoli (32)
Lyle Overbay (37)
Carlos Pena (36)
Mark Reynolds (30)
Kevin Youkilis (35)

Only Ellsbury there projects to $14 M plus.


Right, but the idea is the QO is a premium on a one year deal. Like the franchise tag.

Ellsbury is gone, the QO is academic.

I guess we'll agree to disagree, but I think a large number of teams would love Napoli at 1/14. He's not a C - he didn't play a single inning at C. He was, however, a surprisingly good 1B in the field who hits.

Who is this bargain basement C or 1B we'd get for half the amount? We've got the money easily to fit both Nap and Salty on QO and they represent a much smaller risk than the guys below.

Catchers

Henry Blanco (42)
John Buck (33)
Hector Gimenez (31)
Ramon Hernandez (38)
Brian McCann (30)
Jose Molina (38)
Dioner Navarro (30)
Wil Nieves (36)
Miguel Olivo (35)
Brayan Pena (32)
A.J. Pierzynski (37)
Humberto Quintero (34)
Guillermo Quiroz (32)
Carlos Ruiz (35)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (29)
Kelly Shoppach (34)
Geovany Soto (31)
Kurt Suzuki (30) - $8.5MM club option with a $650K buyout
Taylor Teagarden (30)
Yorvit Torrealba (35)

First basemen

Jeff Baker (33)
Yuniesky Betancourt (32)
Corey Hart (32)
Paul Konerko (38)
Casey Kotchman (31)
Brandon Laird (26)
Adam Lind (30) - $7MM club option with a $2MM buyout
James Loney (30)
Casey McGehee (31)
Kendrys Morales (30)
Justin Morneau (33)
Mike Napoli (32)
Lyle Overbay (37)
Carlos Pena (36)
Mark Reynolds (30)
Kevin Youkilis (35)

I see quite a few players there who could be signed and provide roughly comparable production for less money than the QO to Napoli or Salt.

Right, but the idea is the QO is a premium on a one year deal. Like the franchise tag.

Yes, and there is risk in that. The risk that those players will accept those offers rather than test the market.

The Red Sox would be foolish to make those offers when they could fill those positions for less. I am actually stunned you think they would offer Drew $14 M when they have Bogaerts ready to go. The Red Sox are not a foolishly run organization. Giving Drew that money is akin to the crazy money they handed out to Lackey and Crawford a few years ago, when they were trying to keep up with the Yankees.

I'm certain they will make the offer to Ellsbury, and I could see them talking themselves into it on Salt. I am pretty certain they will not make those offers to Naps and Drew.

Keep in mind, I am not saying this just on this situation but also based on last year, the first year with this system. There weren't too many QOs extended, except for completely obvious multi-year FA candidates.

Fangraphs did their free agent crowdsourcing project: FanGraphs Crowd: The Top 47 Free Agents | FanGraphs Baseball (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/fangraphs-crowd-the-top-47-free-agents/)

Predictions are:
Ellsbury 6/112
Salty 4/44
Napoli 3/39
Drew 3/33

I think FG's crowdsourcing is way low on the pitching side.

4/15 for Garza and 4/10-12 for Jimenez, Santana, Lincecum, and Nolasco- I'll take the over on at least 4 of the 5.

SI

Other than Drew the Sox would love to have any of them back on a one year deal at 14M, so I think they all get it. I don't see the half-priced candidates you do. Maybe Hart, maybe Ruiz, but those are risks that could be easily avoided with QOs to the guys we already have.

I'm certain they will make the offer to Ellsbury, and I could see them talking themselves into it on Salt. I am pretty certain they will not make those offers to Naps and Drew.

Keep in mind, I am not saying this just on this situation but also based on last year, the first year with this system. There weren't too many QOs extended, except for completely obvious multi-year FA candidates.
...
I see quite a few players there who could be signed and provide roughly comparable production for less money than the QO to Napoli or Salt.First, you're off on Napoli and Salty. I don't love watching either bat because of the high K%, but Napoli was basically tied for 5th in WAR among 1st basemen (with Belt/Encarnacion, after Davis/Votto/Golschmidt/Freeman) and actually had the best defensive numbers of any qualifying 1B, and Salty was tied with McCann and Lucroy for 6th best batting catcher (after Mauer/Molina/Castro/Posey), while being generally regarded as being marginally above average defensively. I wouldn't put money on Salty repeating those numbers, but Napoli's are pretty much right in line with career stats.

Napoli is a long-term risk due to the hip, but considering the Red Sox were willing to go 3/$39m before the hip came up, I think they'd have no problem doing 2/$26 structured the same way they renegotiated the contract ($5m base, $8m in easily reachable Games Played incentives), and would easily be willing to take the risk of a 1-year deal. No question he gets offered the QO, and 90% chance he comes back here on it or a 2-3 year deal with GP/PA incentives (10% chance some GM goes crazy and offers him 4/$50+ and he's gone.) James Loney was the only other FA 1B that came close to his numbers last year, and he was horrible in Boston, which plays into my lack of trust in him. Guys like Morneau, Konerko, Reynolds and Morales are demonstrably worse hitters than Napoli right now, and Corey Hart is coming off missing a whole season.

Salty I have much less trust in going forward (I think he's all power, no OBP, and had an outlier season), but I still think he's a very good bet to put up 2-2.5 WAR, the pitchers like him, and the Red Sox FO has shown a willingness to overpay a catcher like that. Again, no question Salty gets the QO, and I think the Red Sox try to sign him for something like 4/$40m before he hits FA. If he leaves, McCann is really the only thing close to a sure thing next season, and he'll probably get a 5-6 year contract (likely from the Yankees) that looks terrible by year 3.Yes, and there is risk in that. The risk that those players will accept those offers rather than test the market.

The Red Sox would be foolish to make those offers when they could fill those positions for less. I am actually stunned you think they would offer Drew $14 M when they have Bogaerts ready to go. The Red Sox are not a foolishly run organization. Giving Drew that money is akin to the crazy money they handed out to Lackey and Crawford a few years ago, when they were trying to keep up with the Yankees.

Drew is the one that's 50/50. Drew, again, is a guy I don't love to watch hit, but he basically finished tied for 5th in WAR among shortstops (although there were more SS close to him than 1B/C close to Napoli/Salty), after Tulo, Desmond, and then Simmons/Escobar who are up there solely on D. I think they do offer it to him under the assumption that he'll turn it down because he values being a starter more than a few million. Even if he doesn't we can afford to carry him at that number or trade him in ST/early in the season when some teams SS goes down.

A 1-year contract is nothing like the Crawford and Lackey deals (and the Lackey one will actually work out if he pitches near this season's numbers because we got an extra year at league minimum tacked on in 2015 when he missed 2012 with the labrum.) Starting around Cherington took over and it appeared the Red Sox had been/were getting burned by long-term deals, and really pursued last offseason/last August after the Nick Punto trade, the Red Sox have shown a clear willingness to overpay players up to $13m/y on short-term deals. Victorino, Napoli, Dempster, Drew were all looked at as overpays, but even the one that didn't work out in our favor (Dempster) is a small speed bump, since he's someone we can probably trade because he's only got 1 year left on his contract. Right now, Pedroia ($13-14m) and Buchholz (team options for 2016/17 at $13m) are the only 2 players signed past 2015, and the only others signed for even 2 years are Victorino ($13m) and Lackey (league minimum). Compare that to the Angels who have $106m committed to 5 players for 2016, or the Yankees who have $69m committed to A-Rod/Tex/CC in 2016.

Team-building wise the Red Sox budget about $160-$170m for MLB salaries right now. I kind of ballpark it into 15 slots of $10m each - 9 fielding positions, bench, 5 starters and then $15m for relievers. We've got 5 spots covered by minsal pre-arb players (SS Bogaerts, 3B WMB, LF Nava, CF JBJ, SP4 Doubront), and the Red Sox philosophy now is to take that $45m in savings and spread it out to the other 10 positions so you can pay guys $13-14m at most every slot instead of throwing most of the extra at 1-2 $20m+ players. I don't think that's some kind of hard and fast rule where they wouldn't drop huge $ on a player entering his prime like Pedro/Kershaw/Price/Xander if he develops into a 25+ HR guy, but it seems to be a lot smarter to go for those shorter deals than try to sign the 30+ players that make it to free agency to long term, high $ deals. But they have absolutely no problem paying $13-$14m on 1/2 year deals, even at the expense of signing the same player to a 4/5 year deal at $10/$11m.

(and the Lackey one will actually work out if he pitches near this season's numbers because we got an extra year at league minimum tacked on in 2015 when he missed 2012 with the labrum.)

I can't wait to see that one play out if Lackey has another good year. I imagine he'd hold out and not play for the minimum, and try to negotiate a multi-year deal.

That was a condition built into his contract? Interesting.

Rumor has it that the Brewers and Royals could get into a major bidding war for Yuniesky Betancourt. Current rumblings have the Brewers offering a six year contract with the Royals unwilling to go less than eight years.

That was a condition built into his contract? Interesting.Yeah, although it was only if he spent close to a full season on the DL due to the labrum they had diagnosed as being weak during the physical. If he had some other injury it wouldn't have gone into effect.I can't wait to see that one play out if Lackey has another good year. I imagine he'd hold out and not play for the minimum, and try to negotiate a multi-year deal.

Yeah, I imagine they'd re-negotiate too, but as long as that discount is built into the new extension the Red Sox come out ahead. Something like 2/16 or 3/27 would be pretty good for both sides under those circumstances.

I think FG's crowdsourcing is way low on the pitching side.

4/15 for Garza and 4/10-12 for Jimenez, Santana, Lincecum, and Nolasco- I'll take the over on at least 4 of the 5.

SI

You've already got one over, well over. Salaries are gonna be ridiculous this offseason.

2 years 35M for Timmy..... I was figuring he would get 2 years 6M...so clearly I know nothing. but that's an insane amount of money for a guy who cant actually start. (sub 0 WAR last 2 seasons)

That's a lot of weed for that scratch.

Trey Hillman, Los Angeles Dodgers bench coach and friend of Don Mattingly, fired - ESPN Los Angeles (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/9863222/trey-hillman-los-angeles-dodgers-bench-coach-friend-don-mattingly-fired)

Trey Hillman, Los Angeles Dodgers bench coach and friend of Don Mattingly, fired - ESPN Los Angeles (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/9863222/trey-hillman-los-angeles-dodgers-bench-coach-friend-don-mattingly-fired)

Oh, Trey. You never should have left the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters

SI

I'd put even money on Girardi to the Cubs and Mattingly to the Yankees at this point.

Can the Dodgers just buy..er...trade for a manager?

I'd put even money on Girardi to the Cubs and Mattingly to the Yankees at this point.

Didn't Girardi already sign a contract with the Yankees?

Didn't Girardi already sign a contract with the Yankees?

Two weeks ago.

I should have gone to SportsDigs.

Guy on local sportstalk (Lance McAlister, 700WLW) thinks Reds should offer Arroyo 1 yr/14M to get QO and he would reject it. I find it hard to believe Arroyo would reject that contract.

Guy on local sportstalk (Lance McAlister, 700WLW) thinks Reds should offer Arroyo 1 yr/14M to get QO and he would reject it. I find it hard to believe Arroyo would reject that contract.

Isn't Arroyo considered a pretty solid pitcher? He may get more elsewhere or has he been hurt?

I don't pay as close attention to baseball as I use to.

Guy on local sportstalk (Lance McAlister, 700WLW) thinks Reds should offer Arroyo 1 yr/14M to get QO and he would reject it. I find it hard to believe Arroyo would reject that contract.

He might, which makes it almost impossible to offer, but after the crazy Lincecum contract I'm not sure he couldn't find better. He's all but a guarantee of 200 innings slightly above league average. I could see someone offering 2/20.

Is this $14MM standard qualifying offer for every player new or have I just been asleep at the wheel?

It changes every year, was 13.3 last year. Last year they scrapped the A and B designations and just made it one offer for any player.

SIAP, but Buster Olney tweeted yesterday that the Royals are shopping Billy Butler. Contract is $8M next year with a $12M option in 2015.

That's a trade that I could get behind. As much as I love Country Breakfast, he really hurts our flexibility from a lineup perspective.

It changes every year, was 13.3 last year. Last year they scrapped the A and B designations and just made it one offer for any player.

Ah, that's what I was thinking of. Thanks.

If the Cardinals want Beltran, I bet he signs with them.

Heyman - Red Sox to make QO to Drew, Napoli, Ellsbury, maybe Salty (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24166267/red-sox-plan-to-make-qualifying-offers-to-napoli-drew)

Of course, not everything Heyman goes with is right, but this doesn't surprise.

I know this is super old news, thread-wise, but if you are the Reds, you HAVE to make a QO to Arroyo. Even if he accepts it, and is terrible, you can hide him as the long man for a single year... he seems to struggle more when teams see him 2-3 times in a game anyway.

Too risky to just lose that compensatory draft pick if he walks anyway. Plus if you keep him, it allows the team to shop Homer Bailey.

Heyman - Red Sox to make QO to Drew, Napoli, Ellsbury, maybe Salty (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24166267/red-sox-plan-to-make-qualifying-offers-to-napoli-drew)

Of course, not everything Heyman goes with is right, but this doesn't surprise.Heyman's biggest problem has always been his willingness to be used by certain agents (a.k.a. Boras) as a mouthpiece. Like when the 2B Guerrero was being shopped around and he reported the Red Sox and Rangers were bidding when clearly both have 2B locked up long-term. But in this case nobody gains anything by pretending to offer a QO, so I doubt any source is playing him.

I'd still offer Salty the QO even with Ross supplanting him as the starting catcher during the WS. Still makes too much sense as the platoon-mate next year if they can get him on a 1-yr overpay since they're completely unwilling to trust Lavarnway behind the plate, and even under a best-case scenario the real catching prospects (Vasquez, Swihart) are minimum 1 year away. Worst thing we could do is sign any catcher (including Salty and Brian McCann) to a long-term contract.

FYI, timeline is that until 5pm ET on Monday, November 4th, teams may tender a QO, which is a guaranteed one-year, $14.1mm deal for 2014. The free agent can start negotiating with other teams at that point and has until 5pm ET on Monday, November 11th to accept a QO. Any player who accepts is considered signed for 2014. If a player declines a QO, his former team becomes eligible for compensation if the player signs a Major League contract with another Major League team before the 2014 draft. General Manager meetings are then November 11-13th.

Talking about Agents spin - According to Boras, Stephen Drew went to the eye doctor before Game 6, got some new contact lenses and homered and hit the ball hard 3 times. You hear that opposing GM's? Well worth the 1st round pick and a multi-year contract!

Preliminary odds from Bovada (why not?)

Los Angeles Dodgers 7/1
Detroit Tigers 9/1
Boston Red Sox 10/1
St. Louis Cardinals 10/1
Washington Nationals 10/1
Los Angeles Angels 14/1
Atlanta Braves 16/1
Cincinnati Reds 16/1
New York Yankees 16/1
Oakland Athletics 16/1
Tampa Bay Rays 16/1
Texas Rangers 16/1
San Francisco Giants 18/1
Cleveland Indians 20/1
Baltimore Orioles 25/1
Pittsburgh Pirates 25/1
Toronto Blue Jays 25/1
Kansas City Royals 33/1
Philadelphia Phillies 33/1
Arizona Diamondbacks 40/1
Chicago White Sox 50/1
Milwaukee Brewers 50/1
Seattle Mariners 50/1
Chicago Cubs 66/1
Colorado Rockies 66/1
San Diego Padres 66/1
Minnesota Twins 75/1
New York Mets 75/1
Miami Marlins 200/1
Houston Astros 250/1

Preliminary instinct - some of the top teams seem a little low, the Nationals are overrated, and if I had to pick a longshot I kind of like Arizona - they have enough young pitching that if it gels they could make a run imo.

One of these years, someone is going to turn on the money making Death Star that is the Cubs, now that they have a competent front office, and someone will cash in on those odds.

SI

Tough to get excited about a coaching hire when your initial reaction is "Wait, who?"

One of these years, someone is going to turn on the money making Death Star that is the Cubs, now that they have a competent front office, and someone will cash in on those odds.

SI

They aren't as big of cash register lately as they have been. Attendance has been dropping pretty much every year since the Ricketts bought them, and they're leveraged out the ass right now.

Granted, all it will take is a winning season (or even a glimmer of competent play) and they'll go right back to printing money.

They aren't as big of cash register lately as they have been. Attendance has been dropping pretty much every year since the Ricketts bought them, and they're leveraged out the ass right now.

Granted, all it will take is a winning season (or even a glimmer of competent play) and they'll go right back to printing money.

I went to a game at Wriggly last year, and was shocked how packed it was, considering how awful they are. I also realized what a horrible game day experience it is, due to the stone age stadium.

I know this is super old news, thread-wise, but if you are the Reds, you HAVE to make a QO to Arroyo. Even if he accepts it, and is terrible, you can hide him as the long man for a single year... he seems to struggle more when teams see him 2-3 times in a game anyway.

Too risky to just lose that compensatory draft pick if he walks anyway. Plus if you keep him, it allows the team to shop Homer Bailey.

The Reds did not make a QO to Arroyo. I am a little surprised, but after reading some analysis can totally understand why they did not.

So glad. That price is way above his market.

Gammons and Heyman hinting that Drew will not accept the QO. Napoli is shopping around the Sox multi-year deal, so he will not accept the QO. Ellsbury obviously will not accept the QO.

Reds basically just told everyone that catcher Ryan Hanigan is available by signing Brayan Pena. No way they are dumping Mesoraco. Hanigan's year was terrible, but he is still pretty cheap and is an awesome pitcher's and defensive catcher.

Maybe Hanigan and Phillips in a package to someone?

Maybe Hanigan and Phillips in a package to someone?

They REALLY need an outfielder.

Damn, #4 SPs wanting bank....

From FoxSports.com (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/free-agency-ervin-santana-ricky-nolasco-matt-garza-ubaldo-jimenez-sticker-shock-110713)
"Free-agent right-hander Ervin Santana is seeking more than $100 million on a five-year deal, and righty Ricky Nolasco $80 million over the same term, according to major league sources."

Guys are going to get PAID this offseason. Much more money coming into the game combined with significant restrictions as to how much you can spend (outside of free agency) means free agents are going to make out like gangbusters.

Guys are going to get PAID this offseason. Much more money coming into the game combined with significant restrictions as to how much you can spend (outside of free agency) means free agents are going to make out like gangbusters.

Good. Since the Angels will more or less sit out the offseason, free agents wise, I would rather teams blow up their payrolls right now.

Hopefully Dipoto is blowing up phones with trade offers to get more pitching.

Good. Since the Angels will more or less sit out the offseason, free agents wise, I would rather teams blow up their payrolls right now.

Hopefully Dipoto is blowing up phones with trade offers to get more pitching.How does Ryan Dempster for only 1 year at $13 million sound? I still think that was an insane deal, but somebody's gonna jump on that in a trade instead of overpaying on a multi-year contract.

Reds basically just told everyone that catcher Ryan Hanigan is available by signing Brayan Pena. No way they are dumping Mesoraco. Hanigan's year was terrible, but he is still pretty cheap and is an awesome pitcher's and defensive catcher.

Maybe Hanigan and Phillips in a package to someone?

It's a mistake to get rid of Hanigan in my opinion. Pitchers love him and he was unbelievably unlucky last year with his BABIP. The only thing might be his wrist injury if its bad.

How does Ryan Dempster for only 1 year at $13 million sound? I still think that was an insane deal, but somebody's gonna jump on that in a trade instead of overpaying on a multi-year contract.

Unless we're trading salary back, I don't see it. Dipoto is looking for price controlled pitching over at least a two year period and probably longer.

Plus, our best tradeable pieces-- Trumbo, Kendrick, Bourjos-- don't matchup with their needs too well.

The Braves are leaving Turner Field to move to a new stadium on the northwest side of town in Cobb County in 2017.

Atlanta Braves leaving Turner Field, relocating to Cobb County in 2017 - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9959440/atlanta-braves-leaving-turner-field-relocating-cobb-county-2017)

Local coverage of the Braves new stadium story.

Braves plan to build new stadium in Cobb | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/baseball/braves-plan-to-build-new-stadium-in-cobb/nbpNQ/)

man, Turner Field is a fairly new stadium, ain't it?

man, Turner Field is a fairly new stadium, ain't it?

Yep, built for the '96 Olympics.

That a little disappointing as I find Turner Field to be a bit underrated. Its tv presence is fairly bland as there's not much iconic around the outfield. But within the stadium, it struck me as more ballpark than mall, which is kindof rare in the newer stadiums- there's a lot of brick and it feels more "classical".

Any word on retractable roof?

SI

I like going to Turner Field, I can cut behind I-20 and sneak in and out pretty quickly. It was a fun stadium with a nice little ambiance. Granted, you don't want to be walking along a few blocks from there, but whatever. I-75 and I-285 is one of the worst congested areas, especially around 6-7pm when somebody would be traveling to the game. It will make traffic in that area absolutely unbearable and probably make me never want to go.

On the upside, I would imagine a lot of fans go there from Cobb County so it should be fine for some. At least it's the taxpayers of Cobb County that are getting stuck with some of it.

Any word on retractable roof?

Open-air (according to the now expanded comments from the team)

The Braves officials said the stadium will be open-air and will seat approximately 41,000 to 42,000 people, almost 10,000 fewer than Turner Field. Schiller said the team plans to sell naming rights to the new stadium.

“We expect that by having (fewer) seats it to be an intimate arrangement for our fans and provide a number of experiences that will be different than what fans are currently used to at Turner Field,” Schiller said.

Here's an interesting assertion that I hadn't heard much about until now
Turner Field would need about $150 million in infrastructure work, including replacement of seats, upgrading lighting and plumbing, etc., to remain viable. “And that’s nothing that is going to enhance our fan experience, which is very important to us,” he said. He said enhancing the fan experience would cost “upward of an additional $200 million.”

Damn, #4 SPs wanting bank....

From FoxSports.com (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/free-agency-ervin-santana-ricky-nolasco-matt-garza-ubaldo-jimenez-sticker-shock-110713)

Anyone that pays Santana or Nolasco close to 100 million is insane. Santana has a good year every 5 years and Nolasco while effective most of the time isnt a dominate pitcher. Id offer them each 1 year 10 million. Take it or leave it.

Anyone that pays Santana or Nolasco close to 100 million is insane. Santana has a good year every 5 years and Nolasco while effective most of the time isnt a dominate pitcher. Id offer them each 1 year 10 million. Take it or leave it.

There will be someone that pays Nolasco 3 and Santana 4 years, starting at probably $10-$12M. If you offer each 1 year 10M, then they will leave it. Heck, Santana already got a qualifying offer of 1/$13M and is going to turn it down if he hasn't already.

EDIT: $80-$100M, probably not. But if you told me 5/$70M for Santana, I'd nod my head and say "yeah, sounds like what someone is going to pay".

SI

There will be someone that pays Nolasco 3 and Santana 4 years, starting at probably $10-$12M. If you offer each 1 year 10M, then they will leave it. Heck, Santana already got a qualifying offer of 1/$13M and is going to turn it down if he hasn't already.

EDIT: $80-$100M, probably not. But if you told me 5/$70M for Santana, I'd nod my head and say "yeah, sounds like what someone is going to pay".

SI

Yes, I know they will get close to what they want. Just kind of seems ridiculous to me to go that direction. These free agent pitchers rarely come anywhere close to the value paid for their contract.

Of course if I was Santana or Nolasco Id ask for the same because GMs are crazy and desperate enough to pay it.

A lot of these free agent deals are known loss leaders where you won't get value paid. But if you're a team in the 85-90 win range and a closing window where you think that extra pitcher will get you into the playoffs or win games in the playoffs, $4-5M/WAR is out the window. What's a marginal win worth?

SI

A lot of these free agent deals are known loss leaders where you won't get value paid. But if you're a team in the 85-90 win range and a closing window where you think that extra pitcher will get you into the playoffs or win games in the playoffs, $4-5M/WAR is out the window. What's a marginal win worth?

SI

Maybe that is where the "crazy" part comes in. Too many GMs overrate their teams and feel they are a 85 win team at the time:)

I think these 2 send up serious red flags and maybe that is more of my case in this particular situation.

Santana has been just awful recently until last year(contract year). His slider had more bite on it than it previously did but he is still basically a 2 pitch pitcher. Now Nolasco reminds me of someone like Kyle Lohse who you can get a much cheaper version for 10 million per year less.

I think the #1 pitcher in this free agent pool is Garza. At least he has been somewhat consistent and has above average stuff.

Sure, but only 1 team will get Garza and more than 1 team "needs" pitching

SI

Here's at least part of the story behind the Braves move or why (if taxpayers don't revolt over it at least) it's certainly not going to hurt them.

The heat map for ticket buyers is rather large, so I'll spoiler tag it to avoid a giant blob in the thread

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2013/11/11/ec/74/heat-map_1.jpg

I was only in the area where the new stadium is going for around a week, but while I was there the traffic was horrendous. I know ATL traffic is known as being horrible, but weren't there quite a few options for getting to Turner Field besides your own car?

Minnesota Twins moving Joe Mauer to first base - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9960329/minnesota-twins-moving-joe-mauer-first-base)

playing Mauer at 1B basically kills any value he has.... at least on the field.

I was only in the area where the new stadium is going for around a week, but while I was there the traffic was horrendous. I know ATL traffic is known as being horrible, but weren't there quite a few options for getting to Turner Field besides your own car?

Yeah, but most involved being in a hearse by the time you get there.

I've only been to Turner Field twice, and both times it was conference related, so they took us in buses from downtown to the park.

I usually took Marta to Five Points and hopped a shuttle from there. I imagine either CCT or Marta will try something similar, but the shuttles will not be able to avoid the horrendous traffic. I wonder if this is a roundabout way to force rail expansion into Cobb.

I wonder if this is a roundabout way to force rail expansion into Cobb.

I pondered that but would think the pushback might be the last thing a lot of politicians would want. I'd be shocked if that were raised verymuch until at least after another election cycle.

God forbid we try and remove cars from the highways. JUST ADD MOAR LANES!!1! LOVE THE NEW 400-85 SOON TO BE SPAGHETTI JUNCTION II!!!

I like going to Turner Field, I can cut behind I-20 and sneak in and out pretty quickly. It was a fun stadium with a nice little ambiance. Granted, you don't want to be walking along a few blocks from there, but whatever. I-75 and I-285 is one of the worst congested areas, especially around 6-7pm when somebody would be traveling to the game. It will make traffic in that area absolutely unbearable and probably make me never want to go.

On the upside, I would imagine a lot of fans go there from Cobb County so it should be fine for some. At least it's the taxpayers of Cobb County that are getting stuck with some of it.

I went to one game at Turner Field. As with most stadiums, I got there early and walked around the entire thing. Figured there would be lots of sports bars and shops and etc. . .

Ummm, good lord, nothing,. OK, found one bar/grill place that was ok to hang out at for a few minutes. I was unimpressed. I liked the stadium more when I was in it and it did have a good feel. That said, it is in the bottom grouping of stadiums I have visited. (I've been to 16 so far)

The heat map for ticket buyers is rather large, so I'll spoiler tag it to avoid a giant blob in the thread

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2013/11/11/ec/74/heat-map_1.jpg

As someone who lives in the 30152 section of that map (slightly north of the E in NEW STADIUM), I'm pretty happy about the whole thing. Yes, traffic is bad around Cumberland, but it's still better than where Turner Field is located downtown. It'll mean more attendance from the Cobb County crowd for sure, but they're going to lose those people who may just go to the games straight after work downtown...I don't know how it'll affect those coming from Gwinnett or Alpharetta. I'm going to guess that they went through the process of figuring all those things out prior to selecting this location, but then again, probably not.

They're going to spend $450 million dollars in public funds to build the new Braves stadium.

That really pisses me off.

I saw 450 out of 650. No way in hell it comes in under 1 billion and the government will make up the difference.

I went to school for 14 years very close to the new stadium location and I just dont get it. Traffic there is already a nightmare, theres no mass transit options anywhere near it, and Im not sure theres even a ton of land to work with. i Havent lived there in 10+ years, though I happen to be in Atlanta right now, so maybe ive missed something huge that makes this make sense.

It makes sense in that they will likely own a chunk of the land around the stadium, the whole mixed use thing could be a big money maker for somebody. Right now, the stadium is in the middle of the hood and most people can't get out of there fast enough. As was mentioned earlier, other than Harold's BBQ (if it's even still there) there is poo for food in the area. But the traffic thing is just awful. I play in a baseball league around here, and there is a midweek night league as well. The games are in Cobb County up 75 by Windy Hill. It takes me over an hour to drive about 10 miles up 75 from the connector. I can only imagine what having a big stadium will do, though the good news is that most of the ticketholders look like they come from North of there.

I went to school for 14 years very close to the new stadium location and I just dont get it. Traffic there is already a nightmare, theres no mass transit options anywhere near it, and Im not sure theres even a ton of land to work with. i Havent lived there in 10+ years, though I happen to be in Atlanta right now, so maybe ive missed something huge that makes this make sense.

Getting out of the cesspool area they're currently in -- or even an area perceived as a cesspool by an enormous chunk of their ticket buyers -- makes as much sense as anything. I can't imagine watching the socio-political hoops the Falcons had to jump through hurt the decision to move either.

As for land, the amount the team mentioned is 60 acres.

what's with the 30269 zip code? it's like a baseball island down there

what's with the 30269 zip code? it's like a baseball island down there

Peachtree City. $90,240 avg income per household.

what's with the 30269 zip code? it's like a baseball island down there

I had to look it up, and then I laughed: that's Peachtree City.

Median home value around $250k (roughly double the state average), median HHI around double the state average as well. Typical resident is mid-40's, white, with 1-2 teenagers still at home. Pretty much a perfect storm for Braves fans. Home of about a dozen major industries (some even HQ'ed there) including Cooper Lighting, Panasonic Automotive, TDK, Avery Dennison, and NCR.

Drop Dead Diva films there, as did some early scenes of The Walking Dead

It's also the golf cart capital of the world :)

Peachtree City has a system of golf cart paths which spider across the town and provide a secondary means of access to almost any destination within city limits. These multi-use paths stretch for more than ninety miles throughout the city. Many places of business have specially designated golf cart parking spaces and the Peachtree City Police Department has several golf carts that patrol[4] along the paths. Over 9,000 households own a golf cart, more than any other city in the world, and use them as an extra vehicle for local transportation. Children aged twelve or over may operate a cart on Peachtree City cart paths with a parent, grandparent or guardian in the front seat. Unaccompanied fifteen-year-olds with valid Georgia Learner's Permits are allowed to operate golf carts alone. Students at McIntosh High School are even encouraged to drive their golf carts to school because of limited car parking

I gots a few friends in the PTC, it's another world.

Minnesota Twins moving Joe Mauer to first base - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9960329/minnesota-twins-moving-joe-mauer-first-base)

playing Mauer at 1B basically kills any value he has.... at least on the field.

Mauer is gonna get ripped int he offseason and hit 35+ homers next year.

Unless we're trading salary back, I don't see it. Dipoto is looking for price controlled pitching over at least a two year period and probably longer.

Plus, our best tradeable pieces-- Trumbo, Kendrick, Bourjos-- don't matchup with their needs too well.Yeah, that was mostly a throwaway comment since we have 6 starters under contract right now and are rumored to be interested in Tim Hudson too. Trumbo might actually be a fit if Napoli leaves - we'll be looking for some more power at 1B, which is why I hated not going after Abreu harder, even if the timing would have been awkward as hell. Wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for a Trumbo, Ike Davis, Pablo Sandoval, Joe Mauer if any of those teams are undervaluing them on the trade market.Minnesota Twins moving Joe Mauer to first base - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9960329/minnesota-twins-moving-joe-mauer-first-base)

playing Mauer at 1B basically kills any value he has.... at least on the field.Huh? It drops him down from MVP candidate to all-star level, and it does mean that he probably won't provide surplus value vs. his contract, but ignoring the money a .404 OBP is fantastic, even if he doesn't have quite the power people like to associate with 1B sluggers. Even assuming no increase in offensive output his OPS would've been 6th among all 1B, and he'll probably be above-average in the field.

Not too surprisingly, all 13 qualifying offers were declined. I still think we should have offered Salty one - even Kendrys Morales turned $14.1 million down.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYzXKNICQAAmWFr.jpg

I get all of those references except the trash can one. (well, and the racist statue ... I never really thought Aaron was THAT racist)

edit to add: What might have been better was to add kiosks with "UGA Recruiting Updates" or something along those lines.

I play in a baseball league around here, and there is a midweek night league as well. The games are in Cobb County up 75 by Windy Hill. It takes me over an hour to drive about 10 miles up 75 from the connector. I can only imagine what having a big stadium will do, though the good news is that most of the ticketholders look like they come from North of there.

That's basically what I see and wonder what in the Hell were they thinking? Traffic was already God awful around that area and now it'll be even worse. I mean the connector may be bad, but 285 is the Devil's Highway and it's going to have to be the way of choice for people from Gwinnett and even some areas of Fulton.

Frankly I thought the Braves Shuttle to MARTA was fantastic way to get to games and leave them quickly (I just used MARTA this Sunday to see the Falcons get pummeled and it was a breeze [no pun intended - Atlanta people will get that]). I think this move makes it unlikely that I'll ever see a Braves game after 2017 (I live in the Decatur area - there is no way that even on a weekend I'll drive all that way for a baseball game; I can count on one hand the number of times I've been at Cobb Galleria or Cumberland Mall area and I don't think I've ever been to Marietta).

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been at Cobb Galleria or Cumberland Mall area and I don't think I've ever been to Marietta).

But there's a lot of people in Kennesaw (or Woodstock or Canton) who could say the same thing about Decatur.

But there's a lot of people in Kennesaw (or Woodstock or Canton) who could say the same thing about Decatur.


Well besides the fact that I was born in Decatur, we moved to East Cobb County when I was 7. From that point on what Jon says is pretty accurate. Getting to our part of town from Atlanta is just as painful as getting to Atlanta from Cobb County was. I still remember all of the debates over years and years and years on why they didn't want to extend Marta to Cobb County, and ended up starting up the CCT instead primarily because they didn't want to make it easier for "Atlanta type of people" to get in to Cobb (you can infer whatever that means, plenty of people did back then at the time.. from talking about homeless to racist type thoughts to whatever).

Honestly though, getting to Windy Hill from East Cobb or Woodstock even was not the easiest thing ever at least back when I lived there growing up.

But there's a lot of people in Kennesaw (or Woodstock or Canton) who could say the same thing about Decatur.

Which misses the point ;). They aren't putting the Braves in Decatur. Downtown was a good central point - esp since it was on MARTA. Folks from Kennesaw could drive to Perimeter station (if they wanted - though Kennesaw folks are a bit screwed due to Cobb not wanting crime *ahem* black people *ahem* by building a MARTA line to Marietta).

First data point is in, Marlon Byrd gets 2/16 from the Phillies.

First data point is in, Marlon Byrd gets 2/16 from the Phillies.

Didnt he get released a couple of years ago? You know I just find if funny that teams will pay this much for guys like Byrd. Is someone in triple A with any sign of potential making the $500k really a much worse scenario?

I think the actually stars are worth the $20 million/year they get but these guys league average or barely above getting $8-12 million I dont really grasp. Im actually have a hard time calling Myrd league average because for the most part of his career he has been below league average.

Folks from Kennesaw could drive to Perimeter station (if they wanted - though Kennesaw folks are a bit screwed due to Cobb not wanting crime *ahem* black people *ahem* by building a MARTA line to Marietta).

You say that as though Kennesaw folks aren't on board with the decision to keep the comically inept MARTA out of Cobb County. If anything, I'd say the presence of Town Center Mall makes them even less likely to want it.

It is sad though that one of the best parts of attending Braves games when I was younger was the frantic drive through Techwood in pitch dark night after the games were done. You always had that feeling if you stopped at all for any traffic light or stop sign, your game would be over.

The one game I went to at Turner Field, we took a wrong turn off the interstate and ended up giving a dollar to a guy wandering around and having to talk my way out of someone else who was wanting me to give him money also.

It was a great area of town.

It is sad though that one of the best parts of attending Braves games when I was younger was the frantic drive through Techwood in pitch dark night after the games were done. You always had that feeling if you stopped at all for any traffic light or stop sign, your game would be over.

LOL, 'cause I know what you mean.

As I've mentioned, my Dad & I were there "the night Sid slid". Driving home afterwards we headed up Northside Dr, and the celebratory gunfire opened up just as we got to a traffic light. Decided to just run that one ;)

You say that as though Kennesaw folks aren't on board with the decision to keep the comically inept MARTA out of Cobb County. If anything, I'd say the presence of Town Center Mall makes them even less likely to want it.

You are missing the point, again. I'm talking about Kennesaw residents being able to use MARTA for a downtown stadium, the same as people from Decatur, or Gwinnett.

However, with it being in Cobb, people from Kennesaw may have it easier, but people from Gwinnett won't (saying nothing of people from Decatur).

First data point is in, Marlon Byrd gets 2/16 from the Phillies.

I have no words.

Actually, I have many words, none of them good.

It is sad though that one of the best parts of attending Braves games when I was younger was the frantic drive through Techwood in pitch dark night after the games were done. You always had that feeling if you stopped at all for any traffic light or stop sign, your game would be over.
Oh yeah...in the days before GPS (or cell phones) going to a Braves game was like playing Russian Roulette. If you weren't a frequent spectator, it always felt like the police turned half the streets turned into one way routes around the stadium and it was never the same configuration twice. One wrong turn and suddenly you were going down a dark, deserted street with bars on every window.

...and am I missing something in regards to the discussion about public transportation? There is no MARTA line that goes to the Ted, right? Aren't the options either walking or the Braves shuttle from Five Points? I don't see how that is going to be any different with the new location since there's a MARTA to CCT Transfer station at the Galleria. Wouldn't people just go there instead of Five Points? I'm sure the Braves will have their Shuttles going from there and/or from the nearest train stop.

Didnt he get released a couple of years ago? You know I just find if funny that teams will pay this much for guys like Byrd. Is someone in triple A with any sign of potential making the $500k really a much worse scenario?Got released by the Red Sox and suspended for PED's last June.

You don't think it's worth $8 million a year to see if he finally turned that corner at age 35 and can maintain the stats from his career year? :lol:

However, with it being in Cobb, people from Kennesaw may have it easier, but people from Gwinnett won't (saying nothing of people from Decatur).

The Atlanta metro area is not, and likely will never be, a mass transit market. We drive, that's what we do. The number of people discouraged from attending by the lack of MARTA (or any other system) pales in comparison to the numbers who will be encouraged to go because they no longer have to deal with downtown.

...and am I missing something in regards to the discussion about public transportation? There is no MARTA line that goes to the Ted, right? Aren't the options either walking or the Braves shuttle from Five Points? I don't see how that is going to be any different with the new location since there's a MARTA to CCT Transfer station at the Galleria. Wouldn't people just go there instead of Five Points? I'm sure the Braves will have their Shuttles going from there and/or from the nearest train stop.

Braves Shuttle is MARTA run, and its a 1.5 mile ride (you can walk from 5pts to Turner on a nice day). MARTA to CCT Transfer at Galleria? Where does that bus run from to get to the Galleria? The closest MARTA train stop to the 75 & 285 crossing is 8 miles away (Buckhead Station). That's quite a different in running a shuttle - less than 2 miles compared to 8 miles.

I mean Gwinnett would be infinitely smarter since MARTA trains actually go right up to the Gwinnett border.

Here:
http://itsmarta.com/IMAGES/rail/RailMap030210-interactive.jpg

The new Braves stadium is up in the NorthWest corner (where 75 and 285 meet)

I think the most interesting thing, though, is Cobb County is notoriously anti-tax. Asking the residents for $450 million may not go over that smoothly.

Didnt he get released a couple of years ago? You know I just find if funny that teams will pay this much for guys like Byrd. Is someone in triple A with any sign of potential making the $500k really a much worse scenario?

I think the actually stars are worth the $20 million/year they get but these guys league average or barely above getting $8-12 million I dont really grasp. Im actually have a hard time calling Myrd league average because for the most part of his career he has been below league average.

It seems the 50 games he was suspended for steroids was worth it to his bank account. Is there any legitimate reason someone wouldn't just take a shot at it in their mid-30's if it meant hanging on for 1-2 more years?

Carlos Ruiz reportedly has a 2/20 offer on the table.

Sox should have offered Salty the QO.

Carlos Ruiz reportedly has a 2/20 offer on the table.

Sox should have offered Salty the QO.

Seriously.

Got released by the Red Sox and suspended for PED's last June.

You don't think it's worth $8 million a year to see if he finally turned that corner at age 35 and can maintain the stats from his career year? :lol:

Ladies and gentlemen, Ruben Amaro, Jr.

He's Dayton Moore with a bigger wallet (see also: the late Omar Minaya)

SI

I find myself slipping a little further away from the Phillies every year. Since Harry died the games aren't fun to watch or listen to, the team has been a stagnant mess and the front office appears to have almost no direction. Unless this is designed to make Brown a major chip in a deal for Price (which even then I'm not sold on, because how the hell would that team score), it's just more of the same treadmill.

I think the most interesting thing, though, is Cobb County is notoriously anti-tax. Asking the residents for $450 million may not go over that smoothly.

One of two things almost certainly have to be true:

a) this IS a done deal (as the Braves as basically indicated) and it's never going before the taxpayers for a vote

or

b) the Braves are insanely full of shit

Cobb County GOP chiar:

“It is absolutely necessary the (transportation) solution is all about moving cars in and around Cobb and surrounding counties from our north and east where most Braves fans travel from, and not moving people into Cobb by rail from Atlanta."

Carlos Ruiz reportedly has a 2/20 offer on the table.

Sox should have offered Salty the QO.Yup - it's year 2 of the new system with all the crazy TV money coming into the game. You can't be surprised at the contract numbers being thrown around. Fwiw, I actually wouldn't mind Ruiz at that number (although rumor has it that the Phils, not Boston offered him that) - every catcher will end up looking like/being an overpay, so I'm much more concerned with length than dollars. Ruiz for 2 looks much better than Salty for 3-4, McCann for 5-6, or, god forbid, AJ Pierzynski for any amount of time.

Also, they got the overall vote correct imo (Francona winning), but in this year's installment of what the hell is going on with some people at the BBWAA, Asuka Iinuma Brown of something called the Jiji Press voted for Bob Melvin, Joe Maddon and Buck Showalter on his AL Manager of the Year ballot. :lol:

Cobb County GOP chiar:

"Noooooooo, keep those black people outta here!" ;)

"Noooooooo, keep those black people outta here!" ;)

Thugs is thugs. Nobody wants to import 'em, regardless of color.

Phillies are in talks to acquire Jose Bautista. Dom Brown is the centerpiece of that deal.

I really think the franchise is attempting to piss me off into just cheering for the Red Sox, or find another NL team. I just don't get it.

One of two things almost certainly have to be true:

a) this IS a done deal (as the Braves as basically indicated) and it's never going before the taxpayers for a vote

or

b) the Braves are insanely full of shit

I was wondering if this was actually "B", just some really aggressive posturing to get the investment they want done at Turner Field. But it sounds to me like the city itself is more than willing to move on from having the Braves there, so now they're going to have to figure this Cobb shit out.

I do think Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed has played it well. If it is just a shit filled negotiating posture, Reed has said, y'all can go for $450mil. That is just a ridiculous amount of money. I think if the Braves even asked for $200mil, that perhaps some sort of deal could have been reached with the City of Atlanta, but not this much.

It means the Braves have got to get a deal done with Cobb, and one does wonder how they are going to make it happen while sidestepping a taxpayer vote.

Phillies are in talks to acquire Jose Bautista. Dom Brown is the centerpiece of that deal.

I really think the franchise is attempting to piss me off into just cheering for the Red Sox, or find another NL team. I just don't get it.

So they are wanting to trade a young, team controlled outfielder in his prime years for an aging, expensive player on the downside of his career with a large contract? Considering the numbers they put up last year were very similar other than Brown not being able to play defense this would seem like an awful 1 for 1 trade.

Maybe the Phils felt after last year they had some room to get even older and wanted to take full advantage?

Oh and in other news. The Twins still havent learned their lesson. They are reportedly offering Bronson Arroyo 24 million/2 years.

I've obviously been out of the loop. The fact that the Braves want a new stadium is hysterical. Someone needs to tell Ted to go fuck himself.

I've obviously been out of the loop. The fact that the Braves want a new stadium is hysterical. Someone needs to tell Ted to go fuck himself.

Someone hasn't heard the news that, um, TED DOESN'T OWN THE TEAM.


Ted Turner's comment on Braves move | The Buzz | www.accessatlanta.com (http://www.accessatlanta.com/weblogs/buzz/2013/nov/11/ted-turners-comment-braves-move/)

So, what's he saying about his former team's decision to quit Turner Field for Cobb? Not much. Here's a statement:

“It is my understanding that the Atlanta Braves announced their plan to move from Turner Field to a new stadium in Cobb County. When Time Warner merged with AOL in 2001, the Atlanta Braves were part of the merger package, and later acquired by Liberty Media Corporation. I am no longer part of the company and have not been involved in the decision making since 2001. I just hope the Braves will be happy in their new location and continue their winning ways.”

I mean, you can still tell Ted to go fuck himself, but should probably pick a different reason.

Someone hasn't heard the news that, um, TED DOESN'T OWN THE TEAM.


Ted Turner's comment on Braves move | The Buzz | www.accessatlanta.com (http://www.accessatlanta.com/weblogs/buzz/2013/nov/11/ted-turners-comment-braves-move/)

He's just stuck in the timeframe when Sony was winning console wars.

LOL!

Though if Ted was running the team, there is likely no way they would move from downtown.

Someone hasn't heard the news that, um, TED DOESN'T OWN THE TEAM.

Ted Turner's comment on Braves move | The Buzz | www.accessatlanta.com (http://www.accessatlanta.com/weblogs/buzz/2013/nov/11/ted-turners-comment-braves-move/)

LOL. Not so much. So tell whoever's in charge to go fuck themselves. I don't care if it was a retrofit, 20 years ain't going to cut it.

I mean we could, but Liberty Media really isn't going to care ;).

I mean we could, but Liberty Media really isn't going to care ;).

So wait...are you saying the F*uck comcast (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=61467) thread was probably in vain?

Shocking ;)

That ticket density map for the Braves actually makes this decision look worse, not better. It's not like the new stadium is centered among ticket buyers. It's more centered than previously, but with far worse public transportation options. There are many more centered areas that had rail access.

I live in one of the high density areas (30341) and used MARTA about 99% of the time I went to the games. It is doubtful I will be making that nightmarish trip towards 285/75 (which is already about an hour during rush hour) and dealing with about 40,000 extra people in the area.

He's Dayton Moore with a bigger wallet (see also: the late Omar Minaya)

SI

The late Omar Minaya?

That ticket density map for the Braves actually makes this decision look worse, not better. It's not like the new stadium is centered among ticket buyers. It's more centered than previously, but with far worse public transportation options. There are many more centered areas that had rail access.


I've never been to the area, but I think the move seems odd.

The late Omar Minaya?

He won (lost?) The Contest (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scott-podsednik-dayton-moore-and-the-contest/) so he's dead to me

SI

That ticket density map for the Braves actually makes this decision look worse, not better. It's not like the new stadium is centered among ticket buyers. It's more centered than previously, but with far worse public transportation options. There are many more centered areas that had rail access.

What seems to be getting overlooked repeatedly is "rail access ... which is not a priority for many of their core customers"

The other thing that hasn't gotten enough play in this story perhaps is the likely price jump for tickets which seems to accompany a lot of new stadiums. That's going to make hitting the high income customers (such as those in Cobb, Gwinnett, etc) even more critical for the Braves going forward. It'll be even more of a "Lexus Lot" crowd, not a take-Marta crowd.

Oh and in other news. The Twins still havent learned their lesson. They are reportedly offering Bronson Arroyo 24 million/2 years.

Dammit. If only the Reds knew they could have put the QO on him to get a pick.

What seems to be getting overlooked repeatedly is "rail access ... which is not a priority for many of their core customers"

The other thing that hasn't gotten enough play in this story perhaps is the likely price jump for tickets which seems to accompany a lot of new stadiums. That's going to make hitting the high income customers (such as those in Cobb, Gwinnett, etc) even more critical for the Braves going forward. It'll be even more of a "Lexus Lot" crowd, not a take-Marta crowd.

I think the issue is that the high income folks from Gwinnett or North Fulton (like John's Creek) may balk on 285 traffic. But yes, the prices are going to jump, which is a shame because the Braves had very affordable tickets.

Incidentally, MARTA becomes a less & less popular option each year Bucking National Trend, Atlanta's Public Transit Ridership Declines (http://www.governing.com/news/local/mct-marta-ridership-declines.html)

Since 2001 MARTA showed ridership losses on trains for eight years and on buses for 10 -- far worse than comparable cities or transit systems

Tim Hudson to the Giants, 2 years $23M with a full no-trade clause.

As mediocre as this move is, rather excited about it. One of the better options for this team in this FA class. Still need one more SP, an OF and a middle reliever. Hopefully the Giants don't try to play min-sal roulette on LF again.

Tim Lincecum to the Giants, 2 years $23M with a full no-trade clause.

As mediocre as this move is, rather excited about it. One of the better options for this team in this FA class. Still need one more SP, an OF and a middle reliever. Hopefully the Giants don't try to play min-sal roulette on LF again.

I think you mean Tim Hudson. :)

Also, didn't see this posted, but the Phillies just gave Carlos Ruiz buckets of cash. Three years, $26 million. Skip Schumaker signed with the Reds for two years.

Shumaker is a Jockety guy.

Article in our local sports page about the Cards and Orioles. It is just a "what if" type thing I think.
But, JJ Hardy for Sgelby Miller.

The Os young kid coming back from knee surgery and Hardy in his walk year. Miller is a stud. But the Cards go 7 deep in SPs. And there is no SS on the roster to speak of. Could be a developing story. But the Os have stated they arent actively trading Hardy.

Shumaker is a Jockety guy.

Article in our local sports page about the Cards and Orioles. It is just a "what if" type thing I think.
But, JJ Hardy for Sgelby Miller.

The Os young kid coming back from knee surgery and Hardy in his walk year. Miller is a stud. But the Cards go 7 deep in SPs. And there is no SS on the roster to speak of. Could be a developing story. But the Os have stated they arent actively trading Hardy.
I would want more than Hardy for Miller. Hardy is 31 and makes $8 mil in his final year. It's not like he is a great hitter or defender (.306 OBP with 25 HR) and is a 3-3.5 WAR guy. They could take that $8 mil and get a 3 WAR SS like Peralta and keep Miller. They control Miller for 5 years at a dirt cheap price.

It's not like he is a great hitter or defender

I would want more than Hardy, but Hardy is a pretty great player - 6th best SS offensively last season, 4th best defensively according to Fangraphs.

What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker?

What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker?

For when we trade BP.

If he starts at second base for the Reds next season, you might as well pack up the season now.

I would want more than Hardy, but Hardy is a pretty great player - 6th best SS offensively last season, 4th best defensively according to Fangraphs.
Yeah, I guess it was a pretty weak SS crop last season as Hardy's 3.4 WAR did earn him a tie of 6th. The 8th best was Alexei Ramirez (3.1 WAR) and then it got pretty ugly (the 10th was Brandon Crawford and his 2.2 WAR). What worries me is his age (31), injury history and FA status after the season. If they could get a solid prospect with him I might bite, but Miller is such a bargain and a performer. I would think they could find a capable SS in FA. Don't forget, with Carp, Beltran and Westbrook coming off the books - the Cards will have over $30 mil in available payroll.

What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker?

2 years at 2.5 mil per?

The Reds are paying @18 mil next year for:

Ludwick
Broxton
Hannahan
Shumaker
Pena
Ondrusek

What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker?

I like his flexibility as a utility guy but if he's a starter, it's trouble.

I think you mean Tim Hudson. :)

Yes, good catch. Too many Timmys. :)

Schumaker is a clubhouse guy. And he can play all 3 OF spots and 2B. BP gets hurt every year and Schumaker is a nice fill in for a short period of time.
That is a great signing by the Reds.

Schumaker is a clubhouse guy. And he can play all 3 OF spots and 2B. BP gets hurt every year and Schumaker is a nice fill in for a short period of time.
That is a great signing by the Reds.

His OPS was .665. Your definition of great isn't the same as mine.

His OPS was .665. Your definition of great isn't the same as mine.

Again, he is a clubhouse guy. That can play defense. He will hit 250 off the bench. Sure, you dont want him playing 150 games. But you need a fill in and you want to spend money other places then on a back up OF AND a back up mid INF, you sign Schumaker for 2.5 mil a year and spend your money elsewhere.
Again, maybe I misspoke saying he is a great player. But he is a great signing and a great player for the Reds.

The bench consists of Shumaker, Hannahan, Heisey, Pena and one to be named later.

No power. No speed. No +defenders. No youth.

I've been very happy with Walt, but his obsession with two year contracts for replacement level players is maddening.

Yeah, I guess it was a pretty weak SS crop last season as Hardy's 3.4 WAR did earn him a tie of 6th. The 8th best was Alexei Ramirez (3.1 WAR) and then it got pretty ugly (the 10th was Brandon Crawford and his 2.2 WAR). What worries me is his age (31), injury history and FA status after the season. If they could get a solid prospect with him I might bite, but Miller is such a bargain and a performer. I would think they could find a capable SS in FA. Don't forget, with Carp, Beltran and Westbrook coming off the books - the Cards will have over $30 mil in available payroll.FA's gross this year. Stephen Drew and Johnny Peralta are pretty much the two clear upgrades available, and Drew costs a 1st round pick (not that every one hits, but that's how the Cards got Miller 2 years ago). After that, it's taking a chance on a name like Rafa Furcal or Clint Barmes.

Overall, I wouldn't do Miller for Hardy straight up, but it's basically another Wil Myers for James Shields trade. A wash (or even a "win" for the Cards if Miller was going to come out of the bullpen) in year one-two, and the potential for a huge Orioles win down the road if Miller stays healthy and develops into a top 2-3 starter.

So...

Texas and Detroit are talking about a trade involving Fielder and Kinsler....

dola

Tigers To Acquire Prince Fielder For Ian Kinsler: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/tigers-to-acquire-prince-fielder-for-ian-kinsler.html)

Deal is done. WOW.

Edit: The headline is backward, but the post is correct.

So...

Texas and Detroit are talking about a trade involving Fielder and Kinsler....

Heyman has it as a done deal.

Good deal for Detroit. Upgrades 2nd base, at least defensively, and clears a ton of payroll. Perhaps this means Dombrowski will try to re-sign Scherzer now. They also have Miggy to think about after next year.

I think it's a trade that works for both teams TBH.

I think it's a trade that works for both teams TBH.

True.

I am somewhat surprised that Detroit was able to unload that massive contract though. I am sure there is money included in this deal to help offset Fielder's contract.

True.

I am somewhat surprised that Detroit was able to unload that massive contract though. I am sure there is money included in this deal to help offset Fielder's contract.

Yeah, I can't see this as anything but a clear win for Detroit unless there is a ton more going back Texas's way. That Fielder contract is going to be terrible sooner rather than later.

Dombroksi won Exec of the Year

Yeah, I can't see this as anything but a clear win for Detroit unless there is a ton more going back Texas's way. That Fielder contract is going to be terrible sooner rather than later.

$30 million

IMO, it's a win for the Rangers.

Whoa... what a deal! I do think its a win-win, but Texas gets a bit of a better deal on it.

Detroit can move Miggy back to first base now and can get a decent fielder to play the hot corner. This was a perfect trade for Detroit. Kinsler may not look the best in traditional categories but he puts up a nice OBP and is known as a great baserunner.

He also was injured the early part of last season which I believe zapped his power production for the season. Shoulder injury if I remember correctly.

Texas is probably getting a guy that will hit 40 homers in that stadium and needed to find a home for Profar.

I cant think of a more perfect trade where both sides accomplished a lot.

Love trades like this

Detroit gives Texas 30 million in cash. Essentially paying Prince 138 million over 7 years. With getting Kinsler and his 64 million off the payroll the financials in this arent as bad as one might think.

With the Rangers in win now mode I am guessing they would have gladly paid a bat of Prince's caliber 138 million over 7 years if he were a Free Agent this year.

Not saying they wont regret it in 3-4 years but I doubt they are looking that far ahead.

EDIT
Actually the monetary value of this trade is pretty fair as well.

Kinsler is 31 years old and will be paid 16.5 million per year(including buyout) until he is 35 years old. Prince is 29 years old and will be paid appx 19.8 million per year(what the rangers are paying) until he is 36 years old. If you consider that you are getting the 2 years of Prince playing at closer to peak years I dont think this is really all that unfair at all.

Should be one of them rare trades where both teams improve from it the following year.

Dombroksi won Exec of the Year

To be fair, he did sign Fielder to begin with ;)

That said, I have this general impression that Dombrowski is somewhat underrated. But I want to see his transaction and payroll history. He doesn't work in the uber rich area but he's always had a pretty good payroll, especially since Illitch has been wanting to buy a World Series before he dies.

SI

Local radio here in KC reporting that the Royals will have an announcement at 4:00 PM CST. Rumor is that they've signed Carlos Beltran to come back to the Royals.

Local radio here in KC reporting that the Royals will have an announcement at 4:00 PM CST. Rumor is that they've signed Carlos Beltran to come back to the Royals.

Or a 4 year, $32 million deal for Jason Vargas.

Or a 4 year, $32 million deal for Jason Vargas.

:banghead:

4 years for a guy that's past thirty and has a career high year ERA+ of 104. Wow. I hope this turns out to be another stupid Royals decision and not a marker of what new TV money is going to do to contracts going forward.

4 years for a guy that's past thirty and has a career high year ERA+ of 104. Wow. I hope this turns out to be another stupid Royals decision and not a marker of what new TV money is going to do to contracts going forward.

Don't worry, the eventual Beltran signing will make it all worth it.

Somebody before talked about all the money out there this off-season, but even last season, I felt like pretty much every signing was greeted with the "that's too much money" criticism. But if almost every free agent contract is for too much money, then we probably need to re-evaluate how much "too much" is, and just accept that this is what these guys cost. Unless my perception on that criticism is off.

I'd say that's fair value in terms of annual payout for Jason Vargas... but why go four years on him?

Local radio here in KC reporting that the Royals will have an announcement at 4:00 PM CST. Rumor is that they've signed Carlos Beltran to come back to the Royals.

YOU! THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT! :mad:

SI

I blame DeLoss Dodds.

I heard Beltran was going to do the coin flip at the next Chiefs game.

Somebody before talked about all the money out there this off-season, but even last season, I felt like pretty much every signing was greeted with the "that's too much money" criticism. But if almost every free agent contract is for too much money, then we probably need to re-evaluate how much "too much" is, and just accept that this is what these guys cost. Unless my perception on that criticism is off.

What I'm wondering is when did we start having press conferences for signing #5 starters?

I'd say that's fair value in terms of annual payout for Jason Vargas... but why go four years on him?

Because everyone else was offering him 3, and when you can win the war for Vargas, you effing do it.

4 years for a guy that's past thirty and has a career high year ERA+ of 104. Wow. I hope this turns out to be another stupid Royals decision and not a marker of what new TV money is going to do to contracts going forward.If he had pitched in any playoff game over the last 4 years, he probably would have gotten $12 million/year.

If he had pitched in any playoff game over the last 4 years, he probably would have gotten $12 million/year.

Imagine if one of them games would have been a shutout. Add another 3k/per.

Imagine if one of them games would have been a shutout. Add another 3k/per.Yeah, I was kinda being facetious, but I was actually pretty shocked at how respectable his stats are over the last 4 years. An ERA slightly under 4.00, but 200 IP each year and doing it in the AL? That's better than a #5 starter, or his complete lack of name recognition. That's Bronson Arroyo, except Arroyo's been doing it on a contending team and Vargas has done so in complete anonymity.

Chris Young, 1-yr $7.5m from the Mets. That's actually a pretty good deal for both sides.

Breaking news, Red Sox acquire Burke Badenhop from the Brewers. I think this one will eclipse the Fielder/Kinsler deal as the offseason blockbuster.

Maybe in ESPN coverage

SI

I meant to bring this up the other day and forgot.

The Angels have hired for two new positions which I will be very curious to see how they work out. They hired Rick Eckstein (David's brother and former hitting coach for the Nats) as their player information coach and Nick Francona (Terry;s son) as their coordinator of MLB intelligence.

These are new positions that will devise scouting plans against upcoming teams, among other things.

This tells me the organization is leaning more toward Dipoto's way, rather than Scioscia.

Yeah, I was kinda being facetious, but I was actually pretty shocked at how respectable his stats are over the last 4 years. An ERA slightly under 4.00, but 200 IP each year and doing it in the AL? That's better than a #5 starter, or his complete lack of name recognition. That's Bronson Arroyo, except Arroyo's been doing it on a contending team and Vargas has done so in complete anonymity.



He's pitched in some great ballparks for a flyball pitcher that doesn't strike out a lot hitters. His ERA on the road over that span is over 5.

I hate to see Kinsler go, but from all accounts he didn't want to move from 2B to make room for Profar. This also should allow Andrus to move to the lead-off spot. That makes for an interesting top of the order, which likely will be:

Andrus
Rios
Fielder
Adrian Beltre

There's rumor out that the Cards are trading Freese to the Angels for Bourjos.

There's rumor out that the Cards are trading Freese to the Angels for Bourjos.

Per MLB Trade Rumors, the two teams have been talking about Freese and OF depth. I must admit, though, I was hoping it would not be Bourjos shipped out.