A reporter imbedded with a Marine Corp group was with them when they found weapons grade plutonium inside and underground lab that no one knew existed. Big time!

Link, or station?

This a according to initial test. This place has been where the radiation has been way up there. This report is from a newspaper writer from Pittsburgh. The site was found by information by informants that have not been allowed to talk to inspectors.

Foxs news, now.

FOX is reporting it. They say POSSIBLE weapons grade plutonium. Remember, we've heard this type of thing before.

Tarkus

Originally posted by GrantDawg
Foxs news, now.

OK, thanks!

Nothing from the Iraqi Information Minister yet, I will keep him monitered.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83821,00.html

This is the Foxnews link. It is too early to tell, but the info at the bottom of the story makes it seem unlikely to be a smoking gun.

Originally posted by John Galt
[It is too early to tell, but the info at the bottom of the story makes it seem unlikely to be a smoking gun.
I guess that'd make your day huh?

Tarkus

Originally posted by Tarkus
I guess that'd make your day huh?

Tarkus

I'm not picking on Tarkus but it is really starting to piss me off that whenever someone on this board says something that another person disagrees with, the person making the original comment is made out to be some Hitler or Stalin. Give it a rest.

Originally posted by John Galt
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83821,00.html

This is the Foxnews link. It is too early to tell, but the info at the bottom of the story makes it seem unlikely to be a smoking gun.

The bottom of that article seems pretty damming.

"The Marines should be particularly careful because of those high readings," he told the paper. "Three hours at levels like that and people begin to vomit. That leads me to wonder, if the readings are accurate, whether radioactive material was deliberately left there to expose people to dangerous levels.

"You couldn't do scientific work in levels like that. You would die."

Didn't the guy that was in charge of the nuclear facility in Iraq before he fled say that there was plutonium that was hidden from that reactor?

Originally posted by ice4277
I'm not picking on Tarkus but it is really starting to piss me off that whenever someone on this board says something that another person disagrees with, the person making the original comment is made out to be some Hitler or Stalin. Give it a rest.
I'd hate to see your post if you WERE picking on me. :D

Tarkus

dola,

They just reported a second test that confirmed the first findings. Whatever it is, there's something very radioactive down there.

Tarkus

Originally posted by Tarkus
I guess that'd make your day huh?

Tarkus

Everytime I post on a political thread, you post a snide remark that adds nothing to the thread and is directed only at me. This has followed a series of profanity laced personal attacks and a couple very nasty PM's. I've asked you many times to go away and stop trolling. I'd just "ignore" you except that you continue to post things about me and not just to me. Go away!

Originally posted by Tarkus
dola,

They just reported a second test that confirmed the first findings. Whatever it is, there's something very radioactive down there.

Tarkus

Maybe it's an alien space ship. With the aliens still inside.

Originally posted by Drake
Maybe it's an alien space ship. With the aliens still inside.

Or Marie Curie's Spleen.

Originally posted by Drake
Maybe it's an alien space ship. With the aliens still inside.

Or the car from Repo Man.

Originally posted by Drake
Maybe it's an alien space ship. With the aliens still inside.


Lies! Lies and propaganda spread by the liberal human press! :mad:

Good Lord, I'm beating Fox News!

I've had a link to the original story at camedwards.com (http://www.camedwards.com) since shortly after 6 a.m.

yay for me :)

Maybe it's a Colossal Squid. Radioactivity would explain how it became "colossal" (as well as "formidable").

(Ksyrup, begin giggling HERE)

Originally posted by John Galt
Everytime I post on a political thread, you post a snide remark that adds nothing to the thread and is directed only at me. This has followed a series of profanity laced personal attacks and a couple very nasty PM's. I've asked you many times to go away and stop trolling. I'd just "ignore" you except that you continue to post things about me and not just to me. Go away!
I just love it when my posts get the desired affect.

Tarkus

P.S. I don't know if you've noticed but I've stayed away from the political discussions recently. I think most regulars here are aware of my views as I am of theirs. Repeating the same thing over and over isn't going to change many peoples minds once they established their viewpoints. But each and every one of your posts are so predictable I just can't help but respond with a snide remark. Maybe if just once you'd post something out of character I'd stop.

Originally posted by WSUCougar
Maybe it's a Colossal Squid. Radioactivity would explain how it became "colossal" (as well as "formidable").

(Ksyrup, begin giggling HERE)
Oooooh. Good point.

I switch my vote to Colossal Squid.

I've got it! That's where they hid the Red October!

Tarkus

Originally posted by Tarkus
I just love it when my posts get the desired affect.

Tarkus

P.S. I don't know if you've noticed but I've stayed away from the political discussions recently. I think most regulars here are aware of my views as I am of theirs. Repeating the same thing over and over isn't going to change many peoples minds once they established their viewpoints. But each and every one of your posts are so predictable I just can't help but respond with a snide remark. Maybe if just once you'd post something out of character I'd stop.

You have trolled me on several threads, personally attacked me in many ways, and when I confront you with those facts for the 3rd or 4th time, your only response is to say that was your intent.

People may get pissed off by my beliefs, but I don't go about the trolling and personal attack behavior that you express pride in. This is probably the 10th or so time you have trolled me or personally attacked me (all within the last couple months) with an array of profanity. This is just ridiculous and uncalled for on this board! Go away and leave me alone!

John words say no, but his eyes say yes.

Originally posted by Tarkus
I just love it when my posts get the desired affect.Oh, so you WANTED three days' suspension for intentional trolling then??? I hope so, because that's what you just got.

Originally posted by SkyDog
Oh, so you WANTED three days' suspension for intentional trolling then??? I hope so, because that's what you just got.

boo-yah

Tarkus made a critical mistake - he failed to woo the French/Russian/German lobby of the FOFC board.

SD, just give peace a chance!

Dammit. First rule of the shared annoy John Galt account (known to the forum as "Tarkus") was to keep out of trouble. Who screwed the pooch?

Originally posted by SkyDog
Oh, so you WANTED three days' suspension for intentional trolling then??? I hope so, because that's what you just got.

Wow, for the first time ever, I'm in agreeance ;) with Skydog that free speech should be repressed.

Oh, and they've confirmed its weapons grade plutonium, or plutonium, because those are 2 completely different things (had physics last term, and according to the professor and the book they are). <--Honest question/statement. Any radioactive stuff is horrible, regardless of it can be used for weapons or not.

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Wow, for the first time ever, I'm in agreeance ;) with Skydog that free speech should be repressed.

Oh, and they've confirmed its weapons grade plutonium, or plutonium, because those are 2 completely different things (had physics last term, and according to the professor and the book they are). <--Honest question/statement. Any radioactive stuff is horrible, regardless of it can be used for weapons or not.

They are, and my understanding is the two test says weapons grade. The thing I'm hearing is this is shocking even the Pentagon, because they did not think he would have weapons-grade. It may not end up being that level, but any plutonium is a breach.

I'm pretty sure its just pesticide-grade plutonium

Originally posted by User #2735
I'm pretty sure its just pesticide-grade plutonium

I'd hate to see the cockroach that required nukes. Then again, we had a little carpenter ant problem last year that had me considering wiping out the whole neighborhood. I wonder how many ants a MOAB would take out?

Originally posted by scooper
I'd hate to see the cockroach that required nukes. Then again, we had a little carpenter ant problem last year that had me considering wiping out the whole neighborhood. I wonder how many ants a MOAB would take out?

200,000 is what I've read in the literature.

Originally posted by Hammer755
200,000 is what I've read in the literature.

Darn. I'm sure we had half a million.

Originally posted by scooper
Darn. I'm sure we had half a million.

Just use 3 then.

Originally posted by John Galt
You have trolled me on several threads, personally attacked me in many ways, and when I confront you with those facts for the 3rd or 4th time, your only response is to say that was your intent.

People may get pissed off by my beliefs, but I don't go about the trolling and personal attack behavior that you express pride in. This is probably the 10th or so time you have trolled me or personally attacked me (all within the last couple months) with an array of profanity. This is just ridiculous and uncalled for on this board! Go away and leave me alone!

John is absolutely right. Tarkus was out of line. I may be on the other side of the isle from John, but his comments were exactly correct in this case. I too am skeptical about this find. Everything to date has been discredited.

There will be plenty of time to interview scientist etc and find the caches of stuff that is there.

I think an even bigger question is raised here. Where did saddam get weapons grade plutionium. From what Ive read, it takes three sepreate facilities to create weapons grade pultonium.

1. Reactor to produce plutonium
2. Facility to collect the plutonium from spent fuel rods
3. faclilty to take the plutonium and refine it into weapons grade.

I dont think Iraq had the capablilty to even produce the plutonium. So where was he getting the stuff from?

Also from what ive gathered. 100 pounds is enough material to construct a nuclear bomb. I would imagine that saddam has enough smart people to construct a device if he had enough material.

iraq couldn't even defend their own country. how the heck were they going to make a nuc-ul-ar bomb? they probably just got it for a laugh, so that when all the nuts dictators get together for their annual game of golf saddam didn't feel left out...

kim jong il: i gots me some prime weapons grade plutonium back home. i bought it off some crazy russki scientist out in siberia. he got me a great deal. 20% off if i bought in bulk

that israeli guy i forget the name of: ooh mama, tell me about it. you gotta get some of that stuff Saddam, it is HOTT.

saddam: but guys guys, i already do! it's just sitting in a bunker under a palace right now. the scientists go downt here every couple of days and poke it with sticks.

robert mugabe: well, i have a lot of farms. is that any good?

that is totally off base. We are talking about Apples and pears here. Just because they dont have the technology and manpower and GNP to compete with us on a military level, does not mean that they could not build a bomb. The A-bomb is difficult to build, but not as difficult to build as some might think. If they have enough material to build one, then it is very plausible, that they were trying to build one.

Some of the stupid ass remarks in this thread are the very reason the war discussions around here are starting to turn ugly.

Originally posted by couriers
Some of the stupid ass remarks in this thread are the very reason the war discussions around here are starting to turn ugly.

Mind if I, without turning things ugly, disagree?

The very reason the discussions here (and pretty much everywhere else) are turning ugly (IMO) is because the current situation has pretty much blown the lid off the fact that liberals & conservatives don't generally like each other worth a damn and we're generally tired of pretending otherwise.

Or, put another way ... this is what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real.

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Mind if I, without turning things ugly, disagree?

The very reason the discussions here (and pretty much everywhere else) are turning ugly (IMO) is because the current situation has pretty much blown the lid off the fact that liberals & conservatives don't generally like each other worth a damn and we're generally tired of pretending otherwise.

Or, put another way ... this is what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real.

I agree with every word that you have just said. However, I find it hard to believe that when someone is trolling for a negative response that it can be considered anything other than a stupid ass statement. It would be hard to argue that someone trolling is just being real unless that person is a real ass. Unfortunately, as of late I have seen more stupid ass comments made by individuals who are obviously just trying to invoke negative responses. This is not a hard thing to accomplish when a topic as serious as war is at hand. People need to learn to discuss their positions with some respect to the opposite side of the table instead of relying on off the wall remarks that do nothing toward helping their cause. If being real means to disregard commons sense surrounding another person’s feelings then people should learn to keep their mouths shut for a change.

couriers,
I think you may be wrapping two things into one here, leaving me split about agreeing with you & disagreeing with you.

On the issue of trolling, that sort of by definition includes stupid ass statements. Stupid ass and true trolling go together like white and rice, pb & j, the Bengals and losing, etc, etc. So we're pretty much on the same page there, moreso than I originally thought perhaps because I didn't previous notice the focus on trolling activities.

Where we part company is right about here ... People need to learn to discuss their positions with some respect to the opposite side of the table. That's the area I alluding to earlier I think. Ham-handed and ineffectual as the efforts are at times, I think what we're seeing in that area is simply the reality that there's a lot of people on opposite sides of this (and other) issues that not only have the slightest respect for each other but are virtually consumed by contempt for each other. And I don't believe having that exposed, rather than wasting time & energy trying to hide it, is really a bad thing. Especially if the level of contempt has risen to the point that it's simply impossible to hide, why expend the energy on an effort doomed to failure?

I imagine we can both live with having (what appears to be) different "life philosophies" about the trend and whether it's good/bad/neutral, I've just kinda found it interesting to delve into the subject a little more and get a chance to roll the changing rules around in my head for a bit.

Looks like this is starting to look like another case of mistaken identity.

Atomic Energy Agency thinks this is a known stockpile of low grade uranium. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&e=10&u=/ap/20030410/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_nuclear_find_4)

Jon: I think it is important that we go through the motions of polite and civil discussion. It forces us to treat each other as equals rather than viewing our ideological opposites as enemies or traitors. The lack of civil discussion in our country today is appalling. Both the right and the left are far too comfortable demonizing their opponents.

Manners are important even when you don't necessarily believe what you are doing. They help keep people from attacking each other, both verbally and physically. While being polite won't necessarily do any good, it can't ever do any harm.

I honestly think it's just the effect of the internet. The anonymity and the lack of ability to detect sarcasm and the intended attitude of what people are saying.

Also, I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I have a few friends who will do most anything to inject levity in a serious conversation. It's usually funny. Here, it's trolling and being a stupid ass.

Also, I don't think the fact that the discussion gets so heated is such a bad sign or antyhing. I mean,it's annoying. And the anonymity of the internet takes it to levels it would never approach in real life. But really, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that liberals and conservatives hate each other. Aren't any of you married to someone who is politically opposite? My parents are polar opposites of each other politically, and my girlfriend and I are total opposites politically and we discuss it all the time espicially recently b/c of the war, but it doesn't mean we hate each other... we jsut see things differently.

When I read a non-war related post I know I don't think twice about what the person making the post has said in war related posts when I reply.

Originally posted by Bee
Looks like this is starting to look like another case of mistaken identity.

quote from the original article
The Marine radiation detectors go "off the charts" a few hundred meters outside the nuclear compound ... "I went to the off-site storage buildings, and the rad detector went off the charts" ... "Three hours at levels like that and people begin to vomit"

quote from the new article
Tuwaitha contains 1.8 tons of low-grade enriched uranium and several tons of natural and depleted uranium.

The above two quotes are not compatible with each other because the theory that this is low-grade material approved by the IAEA doesn't wash. If the Geiger counter was ticking fast enough to make the Marines skedaddle, whatever was in there was highly radioactive. That means either contaminated material, spent fuel rods, or fissionable plutonium or uranium. And I can't think why Iraq would be in possession of contaminated material or spent rods. If whatever's in there isn't garbage, it's probably weapons-grade. I'll also note that the 'expert' (singular) not only declined to be named, he declined to name his organization. On this, the whole article is based. Way to be credible, AP.

Well, this should be interesting. I have David Albright, the former IAEA inspector quoted in the original story, coming on the program tomorrow morning.

I'll be sure to ask him about what we've been discussing, and I'll report back his response.

I also have Kelly Motz, the editor of IraqWatch coming on to discuss the same thing.

Originally posted by CamEdwards
Well, this should be interesting. I have David Albright, the former IAEA inspector quoted in the original story, coming on the program tomorrow morning. The story says his name is David Kay :D

Ask him whether it's likely that a team of Marine Engineers would knowingly break IAEA seals like the anonymous "expert" in the story alleges they did....or would they actually have the common sense to see "DANGER, DANGER, WILL ROBINSON" and know that this was a location that had previously been inspected.

uh, I think he said 'former' inspector, sir :)

Originally posted by User #2735
The story says his name is David Kay :D

Ask him whether it's likely that a team of Marine Engineers would knowingly break IAEA seals like the anonymous "expert" in the story alleges they did....or would they actually have the common sense to see "DANGER, DANGER, WILL ROBINSON" and know that this was a location that had previously been inspected.

An engineer with common sense would be highly unlikely. :D

Originally posted by Bee
An engineer with common sense would be highly unlikely. :D

Hey now!!! :p

Okay, so here's the deal:

David Albright, who was with the IAEA Action Team and inspected Al-Tuwaitha back in 1996, says it seems like the biggest concern now is not what we find there, but what we DON'T.

The thinking now is that the UN seals weren't broken by Marines, but were broken sometime between when the Republican Guard left the compound and the Marines arrived. There are signs of looting throughout the complex, and the concern is that someone might have taken some of the uranium. While what we've found so far doesn't appear to be weapons grade, it could still be used to make a dirty bomb.

Kelly Motz with IraqWatch said she's not really concerned about the dirty bomb, and in fact seemed kind of nonplussed about the whole thing.

Meanwhile, the latest from the reporter quotes a couple of former workers at the complex telling the Marines "we will show you what we wouldn't show the inspectors".

Looks like a wait and see kind of thing now.