Based under the argument is Troy Aikman a deserving Hall of Famer..

Is Troy Aikman overrated?

His #s are hardly HOF worthy in my opinion, and even though he has acknowledge it, he benefited from one of the best OL's ever, the all team leading rusher, a stout D and a playmaking WR.

On the other hand perhaps he was the glue that kept that team together, and without him some of those superbowls didn't happen.

So today the question is, is Troy Aikman overrated?

As an Eagles fan, I'm sworn to forever hate him...overrated or not.

As an Giants fan, I'm sworn to forever hate him...overrated or not.

.

He never HAD to put up monster numbers. I have no doubt he could have put up impressive stats if he had been in that type of offense...

At first thought, my reaction was, are you nuts? Then I looked at the numbers, and maybe you have a point. His TD/Int ratio wasn't very good for era he played in. Then again, I'd be willing to be that there are lot of occasions where Aikman handed the ball off to Smith for a TD run, where someone like Elway or Young would have been tossing a short pass for the score.

I think football stats are harder to interpret than baseball stats - most of them are like the RBI in baseball - heavily contextual and dependent on the performance of other players.

So I'm still going to say no. I think there are a few other contemporary QBs who would have had similar success with the Cowboys, but I don't think the Cowboys would have won three Super Bowls if they had a decent but not great QB. One, maybe, but not three.

At first thought, my reaction was, are you nuts? Then I looked at the numbers, and maybe you have a point. His TD/Int ratio wasn't very good for era he played in. Then again, I'd be willing to be that there are lot of occasions where Aikman handed the ball off to Smith for a TD run, where someone like Elway or Young would have been tossing a short pass for the score.

I think football stats are harder to interpret than baseball stats - most of them are like the RBI in baseball - heavily contextual and dependent on the performance of other players.

So I'm still going to say no. I think there are a few other contemporary QBs who would have had similar success with the Cowboys, but I don't think the Cowboys would have won three Super Bowls if they had a decent but not great QB. One, maybe, but not three.

Well said and basically agree with everything clintl said and FWIW I'm not a Cowboy fan. I'm a Rams fan and have too many bad memories from the playoffs in the '70s:(

He played the way the team needed him to to win and three SB wins is a big part of him being Hall worthy. It doesn't take a great QB to win a SB (Dilfer, Hostettler come to mind) but winning three IMHO tells you something about Aikman.

Watching him, I always thought he was very good. Not at the level of Brett Favre or John Elway, but better than somebody like Drew Bledsoe.

I don't ever remember him winning a big game on his own

I don't ever remember him winning a big game on his own

Well it was pretty much all Aikman in Superbowl XXVII. Is that not big enough for you?

hes good and HOF worthy, but any cowboy fan will tell you Staubach is the man

He's a tough call but I think he's actually underrated simply because he had so many good players around him that nobody really realized how good he was. If he was playing for a lesser team, he would have stood out more for how good he actually was. He's definitely not the top tier but he's a HOFer.

Another good choice, DTR. Football is so much more subjective, tho. Baseball arguments eventually come down to stats guys versus fans whereas football arguments are almost always in nebulous territory since football stats, well, suck.

SI

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

Unlike Michael Irvin, I always had trouble hating Emmit and Troy. And I'm a 49er fan, hating the Cowboys is one of my favorite football pastimes. I think that it's tough to say that Troy Aikman is overrated. If people are saying he's a top 5 QB all-time, then yeah, that's overrated. But Aikman is definitely HoF worthy in my mind.

Well it was pretty much all Aikman in Superbowl XXVII. Is that not big enough for you?

I'm sorry, but most superbowls are very hazey to me

If anything, I thogh he was underrated

If anything, I thogh he was underrated

6 Pro Bowls and a 1st ballot Hall of Fame INduction. If you find him underrated , what more do you feel he deserves?

Seeing as people (that i know) always seem to list him in the top 10 qbs ever, then I have to say hes over rated. There is no way he in top 10 qb material.

For one, he may have been the most accurate quarterback ever. Just like K0ruptr is saying, many don't want to include him as a top ten QB. That's why I feel he's underrated. Also, I think because he was a Cowboy, some others (Cowboy haters) have a tendency to write him off as a top 10 QB.

I think he's a deserving Hall of Famer and not overrated. Then again, I live a long way from Dallas, where that sort of hype would be coming from.

You really need to add an "appropriately rated" option to these polls.

I thought Emmit Smith was overrated b/c Dallas had a great O-Line and QB and Passing Game? Next someone is going to tell me that the offensive line was overrated because the running back and QB were so great... People need to make up their minds about who the mediocre player was on the Cowboys that was benefiting from the rest of the superstars during that dynasty.

You really need to add an "appropriately rated" option to these polls.

Original post gives a simple criterion. Essentially the question is "Is Troy Aikman a deserving Hall of Famer?"

If you think he is, then he is not overrated for the purpose of this poll. If you think he is not, then he is overrated.

For one, he may have been the most accurate quarterback ever.

Hardly. If he were all that accurate, he would have a better completion percentage and fewer interceptions.

Joe Montana, for example, threw for 676 more passes for 7600 more yards than Aikman did, and had fewer interceptions. (He also had a significantly higher yards per pass attempt average).

Steve Young threw 566 fewer passes, but passed for more yards, more touchdowns, and his Int rate was much better than Aikman's (2.57% of Young's passes were intercepted, compared to 2.99% of Aikman's).

And if you're going to make the argument that Montana's and Young's numbers are better because they mostly threw short passes, that doesn't fly either. Both Montana and Young have a significantly higher yards per completion average than Aikman does, too.

Aikman is one of the toughest modern-era QBs to assign a "value" to. He was a good QB on an unbelievably talented offensive team. But because, during his peak years, he never had to play with anything but that exceptional offensive team, you never really got to see what Troy in his prime would have been like when charged with carrying a football team on his shoulders. My impression of him is that he would have gotten the job done, but I don't know if that opinion can be quantified.

This said, I voted "overrated." I believe he is a deserving HOFer, but I think that many put him in the elite class of all-time QBs, and I don't think he earned his way there. I think he could have, but the numbers don't indicate that he did.

I think he's the best NFL color analyst on TV right now. Clear, concise and insightful.

Based under the argument is Troy Aikman a deserving Hall of Famer..

Is Troy Aikman overrated?

This said, I voted "overrated." I believe he is a deserving HOFer...

:confused:

I always thought Emmitt Smith was the overrated one. Very durable, but just a "good" RB for me, not special.

I thought Emmit Smith was overrated b/c Dallas had a great O-Line and QB and Passing Game? Next someone is going to tell me that the offensive line was overrated because the running back and QB were so great... People need to make up their minds about who the mediocre player was on the Cowboys that was benefiting from the rest of the superstars during that dynasty.

QFT

I'm a Giants fan and am obligated to hate him, but that doesn't mean I have to misevalutate his ability. Aikman is definitely not overrated.

Aikman is one of the toughest modern-era QBs to assign a "value" to. He was a good QB on an unbelievably talented offensive team. But because, during his peak years, he never had to play with anything but that exceptional offensive team, you never really got to see what Troy in his prime would have been like when charged with carrying a football team on his shoulders. My impression of him is that he would have gotten the job done, but I don't know if that opinion can be quantified.


I agree. His prime years were mostly spent on the great Dallas teams and he retired after 12 years so there's not much of a body of work outside of teams that were Super Bowl contenders.

I don't see him as a top 5 QB, but I think he was a great, HoF-worthy QB. However, its really hard to defend against those that feel he's overrated. It basically comes down to Super Bowl wins (which is a weak argument for a player) and projecting what he would have done outside of Dallas. His stats are very good, but not on the same level as a few other HoF QBs.

For those that think he's top-5ish, let me know who he's better than out of these guys:

Unitas
Marino
Montana
Young
Elway
Manning
Favre
Brady

I'd put him behind those guys and more on the same level as a Jim Kelly.

If he played a bit longer, I think he'd move ahead of Elway at least, and right now I'd probably rank him even or slightly ahead of Brady.

If he played a bit longer, I think he'd move ahead of Elway at least, and right now I'd probably rank him even or slightly ahead of Brady.

No, and no. Elway's claim to greatness (one of them, anyway) was his ability to seemingly will his team to victory, often late in the game when his coaching staff ran out of answers, and just let him fling the ball. Obviously, he never one a SB until Shanahan/Davis, but he was a first ballot HOFer even before the back-to-back (plus SB MVP in XXXIII).

Brady? Has already accomplished more than Troy, and with a clearly less talented supporting cast.

Troy is definitely deserving to be in the hall, but Atocep's list (Unitas, Marino, Montana, Young, Elway, Manning, Favre, Brady) is a good one, in terms of clearly superior QBs. I might even add Tarkenton, for different reasons.

I always thought Emmitt Smith was the overrated one. Very durable, but just a "good" RB for me, not special.

"

DeToxRox, is there any other Texas hero you want to take a shot at?

Perhaps Sam Houston?

I agree. His prime years were mostly spent on the great Dallas teams and he retired after 12 years so there's not much of a body of work outside of teams that were Super Bowl contenders.

I don't see him as a top 5 QB, but I think he was a great, HoF-worthy QB. However, its really hard to defend against those that feel he's overrated. It basically comes down to Super Bowl wins (which is a weak argument for a player) and projecting what he would have done outside of Dallas. His stats are very good, but not on the same level as a few other HoF QBs.

For those that think he's top-5ish, let me know who he's better than out of these guys:

Unitas
Marino
Montana
Young
Elway
Manning
Favre
Brady

I'd put him behind those guys and more on the same level as a Jim Kelly.

I'm going to play devil's advocate....how can Young go up there but not Aikman? I'm not sure who I would put up there out of those two.

DeToxRox, is there any other Texas hero you want to take a shot at?

Perhaps Sam Houston?

Hah, don't worry, the next one is a shot at our friends in the Big Apple, and it's not Jeter.

Atocep, that's a good list but I would definitely add Graham to it. Personally, I would add a couple of QBs in place of Favre and Young but it can go either way.

Atocep, that's a good list but I would definitely add Graham to it. Personally, I would add a couple of QBs in place of Favre and Young but it can go either way.

Graham and Tarkenton weren't forgotten, more that most people write them off in any discussion of all-time greats (especially Graham). Those were just guys that most can relate to now. Unitas, for whatever reason, is the one older QB that no one really argues about.

I thought Emmit Smith was overrated b/c Dallas had a great O-Line and QB and Passing Game? Next someone is going to tell me that the offensive line was overrated because the running back and QB were so great... People need to make up their minds about who the mediocre player was on the Cowboys that was benefiting from the rest of the superstars during that dynasty.

Much as I hate to admit it, that is a great quote.

SI

I'm going to play devil's advocate....how can Young go up there but not Aikman? I'm not sure who I would put up there out of those two.

Right here

Steve Young threw 566 fewer passes, but passed for more yards, more touchdowns, and his Int rate was much better than Aikman's (2.57% of Young's passes were intercepted, compared to 2.99% of Aikman's).

And if you're going to make the argument that Montana's and Young's numbers are better because they mostly threw short passes, that doesn't fly either. Both Montana and Young have a significantly higher yards per completion average than Aikman does, too.

Thats why it makes it hard to argue that he isn't overrated. You have to project what you think he would have done in a more QB friendly offense because other QBs have the numbers.

DeToxRox, is there any other Texas hero you want to take a shot at?

Perhaps Sam Houston?

That one could get quite ugly, actually. Ol' Sam certainly was no saint...

No, and no. Elway's claim to greatness (one of them, anyway) was his ability to seemingly will his team to victory, often late in the game when his coaching staff ran out of answers, and just let him fling the ball. Obviously, he never one a SB until Shanahan/Davis, but he was a first ballot HOFer even before the back-to-back (plus SB MVP in XXXIII).

Brady? Has already accomplished more than Troy, and with a clearly less talented supporting cast.

Troy is definitely deserving to be in the hall, but Atocep's list (Unitas, Marino, Montana, Young, Elway, Manning, Favre, Brady) is a good one, in terms of clearly superior QBs. I might even add Tarkenton, for different reasons.


where then would you rank Staubach?

Much as I hate to admit it, that is a great quote.

SI

Ditto.




It basically comes down to Super Bowl wins (which is a weak argument for a player)

In what world ? Super Bowls are all that matters. Especially when judging a QB's career. Remind me not to hire you as my coach. :p

I always thought Emmitt Smith was the overrated one. Very durable, but just a "good" RB for me, not special.

wtf?

wtf?

No wtfage... His career had the fortunate circumstance to have a high quality offensive line and a great passing game to keep people from keying in on him. Oh and an iron durability, but yeah, as far as an actual runner? Good, but nowhere near the level of elite.

No wtfage... His career had the fortunate circumstance to have a high quality offensive line and a great passing game to keep people from keying in on him. Oh and an iron durability, but yeah, as far as an actual runner? Good, but nowhere near the level of elite.

uh, yeah.

maybe powerpuff league has different standards but you sir are no nfl fan. i've seen nfl fans and you are not an nfl fan.

Izulde is getting close to becoming the first person on my ignore list... ;)

where then would you rank Staubach?


Interesting that you ask. Staubach was my freakin HERO when I was a little guy. In all honesty, I'd place him slightly ahead of Aikman. Less talent without question, but Roger had everything else -- the will to win, the scrambling, the clutch 3rd downs, and he played without question a larger role in the Cowboys' success.

Though I'd still take anyone else on that list ahead of Staubach, including Fran and Young.

Without question, I should proof read even the quickest of posts before submitting. Unquestionably, and without question.

uh, yeah.

maybe powerpuff league has different standards but you sir are no nfl fan. i've seen nfl fans and you are not an nfl fan.

Why? Because I don't drink the E. Smith Kool-Aid? I'm not the only one who considers him overrated, just so you know.

Izulde is getting close to becoming the first person on my ignore list... ;)

:D I don't consider Aikman overrated, FWIW.

In what world ? Super Bowls are all that matters. Especially when judging a QB's career. Remind me not to hire you as my coach. :p

Got it, Jim Plunkett is a far better QB than Dan Marino. I'm sure that opinion is widely held since, you know, Super Bowls are all that matter when judging a QB's career.

Got it, Jim Plunkett is a far better QB than Dan Marino. I'm sure that opinion is widely held since, you know, Super Bowls are all that matter when judging a QB's career.

Dan Marino....bah!

No wtfage... His career had the fortunate circumstance to have a high quality offensive line and a great passing game to keep people from keying in on him. Oh and an iron durability, but yeah, as far as an actual runner? Good, but nowhere near the level of elite.



I think his durability, and therefore the coehesion he brought to the Cowboys running game was a big asset but his down for down running skills were really nothing special. Some people get blinded by stats and make assumptions I think.

First, a disclaimer. I don't consider Emmitt Smith the greatest runner ever.

But you guys, as many do, are seriously selling him short. Durability is a big deal for a running back. And it seems like most people that don't appreciate Smith don't realize how many tackles he broke and how many defenders he made miss inside the tackle box. Fans are starstruck by making guys miss in the open field. But Smith turned 2 yard gains into 4 yard gains countless times. 3 yard gains into 5 yard gains and so forth.

He certainly benefited from being in a system that fit his skill set. But so did pretty much every hugely successful quarterback in NFL history along with many of the successful running backs.

His running style wasn't flashy but it was definitely something special. You just had to pay more attention.

First, a disclaimer. I don't consider Emmitt Smith the greatest runner ever.

But you guys, as many do, are seriously selling him short. Durability is a big deal for a running back. And it seems like most people that don't appreciate Smith don't realize how many tackles he broke and how many defenders he made miss inside the tackle box. Fans are starstruck by making guys miss in the open field. But Smith turned 2 yard gains into 4 yard gains countless times. 3 yard gains into 5 yard gains and so forth.

He certainly benefited from being in a system that fit his skill set. But so did pretty much every hugely successful quarterback in NFL history along with many of the successful running backs.

His running style wasn't flashy but it was definitely something special. You just had to pay more attention.

+1

He's no Manning.