ESPN just reported that Marty is gone. Nothing online that I've seen as of yet.

Something weird must've happened. No reason to endorse the guy, watch all the other coaching positions get filled (one of which was with Cameron), only to fire Marty now.

Chargers fire Schottenheimer
Despite an early exit from the playoffs, the Chargers announced in January that Marty Schottenheimer would return as coach. That's not the case anymore. ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported on Monday that the team had fired the coach.


Espn.com NFL tab

Man, don't be messing with me. This better not be true.

What it must be like to be an NFL coach. He should go to the NFC.

Well that's odd.

Ping: Jerry Angelo.

Fire Lovie, Hire Marty.

Well that's odd.

Doesn't surprise me as odd. The Chargers have been making stupid moves for years. Unless they already have somebody in the wings, this is a really bad move because they waited too long. Must have been another GM/coach conflict that never resolved itself.

Doesn't surprise me as odd. The Chargers have been making stupid moves for years. Unless they already have somebody in the wings, this is a really bad move because they waited too long. Must have been another GM/coach conflict that never resolved itself.

Well, Cam Cameron was certainly somebody "waiting in the wings." Manusky was probably a couple years away, but he's in SF now (yes!). Not sure what else is there.

*sigh*

Here we go again :mad: :(

Ping: Jerry Angelo.

Fire Lovie, Hire Marty.

Fine, then we will take Lovie.

I think the timing has to do with a bit of the animosity between Smith & Marty...

Smith waited until there were no openings left in the league, then says "Good luck finding a job."

There are more potential coaches left than openings... I kinda feel sorry for Marty.

He sucks in the playoffs and you just lost both coordinators... the timing is good as any. Back up the truck and see if Cowher feels like taking in a little sun.

Fine, then we will take Lovie.

All yours!

I think the timing has to do with a bit of the animosity between Smith & Marty...

Smith waited until there were no openings left in the league, then says "Good luck finding a job."

There are more potential coaches left than openings... I kinda feel sorry for Marty.

Well he still has a year on his deal, so he gets paid. He'll have his pick of jobs next year, right behind Cowher.

This makes no sense. I understand the conflict between coach and GM. But fire him now? After why not two weeks, when you knew your DC was interviewing for another job?

Holy. Cow.

http://www.maxwellfootballclub.org/content/awards/neale/1998/green.jpg

I guess Ron Rivera will have another chance to interview for a head coaching job. :)

Well, Cam Cameron was certainly somebody "waiting in the wings." Manusky was probably a couple years away, but he's in SF now (yes!). Not sure what else is there.

Man, while I am not sold on Cam Cameron as head coach. I am scared because we did that with another good offensive coordinator that just bomber. Remember Kevin Gilbride. Plus we will have to get a defensive coordinator.

Stupidest most moronic move of the decade.


Poor Chargers, doomed to fizzle iinsdtead of bloom.

You know what? I'm fresh off a 31-0 victory in IHOF. For the right amount of compensation, I'd be willing to take over.

I think the timing has to do with a bit of the animosity between Smith & Marty...

Smith waited until there were no openings left in the league, then says "Good luck finding a job."

There are more potential coaches left than openings... I kinda feel sorry for Marty.

I can actually believe this to be the case. The ownership has always let crap fester and has never tried to mediate any of the public battles on the team over the years.

Once again, the GM wins in San Diego and I am convinced now that the team will go down because of an over zealot GM who thinks that any move he makes is good. I really hope I am wrong in this matter, but I can't help but have flashbacks to what occured a decade ago.

Well he still has a year on his deal, so he gets paid. He'll have his pick of jobs next year, right behind Cowher.

To go from having a legitimate shot at erasing the label of being a playoff failure and win it all next year to sitting out a year and just making money... that's got to hurt.

For the record, I'm talking about Marty, but that description can also be applied to the Chargers, as they are now TOAST!

:eek:

What a nutso move.

More to the story:


Sources close to Marty Schottenheimer and the San Diego Chargers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=sdg) said the coach was fired by the team Monday, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported.
Schottenheimer and Chargers general manager A.J. Smith have been having disagreements over staffing after losing a number of assistants. Dean Spanos, the team president, told Schottenheimer on Monday that it wasn't going to work between him and Smith.
Three days after the Chargers melted down in a stunning 24-21 playoff loss to New England, Spanos decided that bringing Schottenheimer back for the final year of his contract gave San Diego its best chance to win.
Schottenheimer, though, declined the team's offer of a one-year extension for 2008 worth $4.5 million, with a $1 million buyout.
"Right now, I wasn't comfortable accepting it," Schottenheimer told the Associated Press shortly after the season. He would have earned more than $3 million in 2007.
With a regular-season record of 200-126-1 with Cleveland, Kansas City, Washington and San Diego, Schottenheimer is the most successful coach never to have reached the Super Bowl.

dola....

So yes, a GM/coach conflict as most would have predicted and the owner siding with the GM yet again.

Has there even been a more successful team in the regular season, just completely fall apart in terms of the playoffs and its coaching staff in a space of a month?

heard this on the radio. surprised the hell outa me. at least for the timing.

And here is a statement released on the Chargers site:


Today I made an extremely difficult decision: Marty Schottenheimer is no longer the head coach of the San Diego Chargers.

This decision was so hard because Marty has been both a friend and valued coach of our team. But my first obligation is always to do what is in the best interest of our fans and the entire Charger organization. I must take whatever steps are necessary to deliver a Super Bowl trophy to San Diego. Events of the last month have now convinced me that it is not possible for our organization to function at a championship level under the current structure. On the contrary, and in the plainest possible language, we have a dysfunctional situation here. Today I am resolving that situation once and for all.

My decision means that our organization will be obligated to pay the last year of Marty Schottenheimer’s contract and will begin an intense search for a new head coach at this relatively late date, but these are sacrifices that I believe are necessary to give the Chargers the best possible chance to win on the field this season.

Our fans deserve to know what changed for me over the last month. When I decided to move ahead with Marty Schottenheimer in mid-January, I did so with the expectation that the core of his fine coaching staff would remain intact. Unfortunately, that did not prove to be the case, and the process of dealing with these coaching changes convinced me that we simply could not move forward with such dysfunction between our head coach and general manager. In short, this entire process over the last month convinced me beyond any doubt that I had to act to change this untenable situation and create an environment where everyone at Charger Park would be pulling in the same direction and working at a championship level. I expect exactly that from our entire Charger organization in 2007.

You know what? I'm fresh off a 31-0 victory in IHOF. For the right amount of compensation, I'd be willing to take over.

Let me place some calls.

Wow...SD has no class. Maybe Eli was right. If you're going to fire the guy fire him...that's just crap.

So, essentially, Smith only really liked the coordinators and not Marty. Now that the coordinators are gone, it's see you time. Even if they do well on the coaching search, you have to think that just with the adjustments that have to be made in any coaching takeover, a completely new staff really makes it difficult for SD to challenge for the SB. Too bad for them. Good for the rest of the AFC. From Pats fans everywhere: Thank you AJ Smith.

Aw, screw it. Baseball is just around the corner.

Pete Carroll, the time is now!

What a dick move by the GM...let Marty hang out to dry while all the other coaching vacancies get filled, then fire him. Total dick move.

http://www.maxwellfootballclub.org/content/awards/neale/1998/green.jpg

As I briefed through this thread to catch up - I thought this was Apollo Creed.

I would like to fire the ownership. I wish it were possible. They have ruined so many chances for the Chargers to have a great team for as long as the Spanos were the owners.

So who's left besides Denny Green?

As I briefed through this thread to catch up - I thought this was Apollo Creed.

Nah, that's Action Jackson.

This former Bengal coach is still out there.

http://www.jesuslist.com/blog/images/sam-wyche.jpeg

or

http://www.cincypost.com/2002/12/31/12-31-2002_050031.jpg

or

http://bengals.enquirer.com/img/photos/081797coslet_380x402.jpg

I would not be surprised to see Mike Sherman replacing Marty.

Here is a bit more from John Clayton

Everyone around San Diego and the National Football League knew the Marty Schottenheimer-A.J. Smith relationship was destined to explode. The Chargers had a ticking time bomb of discontent that finally blew up Monday night when the coach was fired.

Schottenheimer couldn't get along with general manager Smith and vice versa. Such problems exist in the NFL, but these situations are usually not as well publicized as this spat. Smith and Schottenheimer co-existed in the coach's first year in San Diego in 2002. In 2003, the relationship started to deteriorate. Schottenheimer made recommendations that year on personnel matters, and Smith disagreed. By 2005, Smith was working around Schottenheimer on personnel matters and even some coaching decisions. By March of 2006, the two didn't speak.


Despite those problems, the Chargers went 14-2 last season with 15 players who were either selected to the Pro Bowl or were named as alternates. Now, with 31 coaching staffs mostly filled and most organizations shifting their attention to free agency, Smith and the Chargers are scrambling to find a head coach and a staff.

According to sources, the final straw in Schottenheimer's surprise ending came down to how he was handling his coaching staff. The staff was being raided. Wade Phillips (Dallas Cowboys) and Cam Cameron (Miami Dolphins) were given head coaching jobs. Nothing could have been done to stop that. Teams can't block an assistant from interviewing for a head coaching job, but they can stop an assistant under contract from interviewing for a non-head coaching job.

The final conflict came down to whether or not to let assistants interview. Sources indicate Smith denied permission for tight ends coach Rob Chudzinski to interview for the Cleveland Browns offensive coordinator job, but Schottenheimer felt it was a good opportunity and wanted to allow it. Schottenheimer also let linebackers coach Greg Manusky interview and accept the 49ers defensive coordinator job. Against Smith's wishes, Schottenheimer let assistant strength and conditioning coach Matt Schiotz go with Cameron to Miami.

The Chargers were down five key assistants. After San Diego's playoff loss to the Patriots, Chargers owner Dean Spanos spent three days trying to decide whether to keep Schottenheimer, who was entering the final year of his contract. He offered him a one-year extension at $4.5 million. Schottenheimer wanted more security than that and said no. Spanos decided to stay with Schottenheimer, who has 200 regular-season wins, knowing he had one of the most talented coaching staffs in the NFL.

The landscape changed for Spanos after the departure of the five coaches, including two coordinators. Schottenheimer and Smith weren't going to get along. Without the assistants, Schottenheimer apparently wasn't as appealing to Spanos.

"When I decided to move ahead with Marty Schottenheimer in mid-January, I did so with the expectation that the core of his fine coaching staff would remain intact," Spanos said. "Unfortunately, that did not prove to be the case and the process of dealing with these coaching changes convinced me that we simply could not move forward with such dysfunction between our head coach and general manager. In short, this entire process over the last month convinced me beyond any doubt that I had to act to change this untenable situation and create an environment where everyone at Charger Park would be pulling in the same direction and working at a championship level. I expect exactly that from our entire Charger organization in 2007."


Spanos has been through this before. General manager Bobby Beathard didn't get along with coach Bobby Ross after they went to a Super Bowl. It's a shame, but these things do happen.

Schottenheimer is one of the great turnaround coaches in the history of the league. He's been successful in every stop as a head coach. Smith has quickly proven to be one of the shrewdest personnel minds in the game. When Eli Manning balked at coming to San Diego, Spanos traded him to the Giants and ended up with three Pro Bowl players -- Shawne Merriman, Luis Castillo and Nate Kaeding.

Spanos tried to squeeze one more season out of this strained relationship. "In the plainest possible language, we have a dysfunctional situation here," Spanos said in his statement.

Cameron and Phillips, in Spanos' eyes, kept the dysfunctional ship sailing in the right direction. Their departures, along with the other assistants, changed the dynamics.

Cameron and Phillips would have been candidates to replace Schottenheimer had he been fired, but those options are gone.

Smith is putting a list together and has to move quickly. No doubt, he will put in a call to Chicago to talk to Ron Rivera, the Bears defensive coordinator. After that, the search will be wide open. Don't expect Bill Cowher's name to surface here. He's one of Marty's best friends.

Spanos will pay Schottenheimer $4 million not to coach this year. It's not out of the question for him to surface in 2008 following a 2007 season that should have eight to 10 coaching changes.

The Chargers had been sitting on an uncertain powder keg. The loss of the assistants lit a fuse. Now, the Chargers are scrambling to repair the damage in the coaching offices.

Wow...SD has no class. Maybe Eli was right. If you're going to fire the guy fire him...that's just crap.
Beat me to it. Eli apparently was right. This was classless and stupid. It's always classless to fire someone and trash the guy at the same time, more so when the reason you cite is a difference of opinion. Spanos and Smith act like they know it all and Mary knows jackshit. Last I checked, all three of them have won the same number of Super Bowls, except Marty's been a consistent winner for 20 years.

It's stupid in the sense that they have now told the next head coach that he better not have an opinion because it's not welcomed -- it's Smith's way or the highway. They created the situation for all the coordinators and assistants to leave by basically saying that Marty only had one year to go and was gone -- why stick around and wait to get fired? You know none of them wanted the head coach job, because it's clear that the next head coach will be Art Howe to Smith's Billy Beane -- a yes man with no balls.

This puts the Chargers in the same category as Dan Snyder with no class. You just don't treat somebody as good as Marty that way. Criticize him for not winning the big one, but no way can ever say that Marty didn't represent his organization well. He never embarrassed his team like some coaches have, and he always won ball games.

The unfortunate thing about the knock on Marty is that he's ripped for not winning a Super Bowl, but I think that by and large he accomplished more with his teams than he had a right to. The Browns imploded after he left, the Chiefs haven't been the same since he left -- I wouldn't be surprised if San Diego missed the playoffs next year. I think Marty has consistently taken good teams and made them nearly great, but I don't think he's ever had a great team. This is a man who won games with Bernie Kosar, Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono. In all fairness to his Browns teams, I think his two teams with the best chance to win the Super Bowl were the '93 Chiefs with Montana (lost AFC title game to Bills) and this year's Chargers team. Even those teams had liabilities, but Marty minimized them and maximized his strengths -- like great coaches do.

I really hope the Chargers win three games next year. What a couple of clowns.

The final conflict came down to whether or not to let assistants interview. Sources indicate Smith denied permission for tight ends coach Rob Chudzinski to interview for the Cleveland Browns offensive coordinator job, but Schottenheimer felt it was a good opportunity and wanted to allow it. Schottenheimer also let linebackers coach Greg Manusky interview and accept the 49ers defensive coordinator job. Against Smith's wishes, Schottenheimer let assistant strength and conditioning coach Matt Schiotz go with Cameron to Miami.

That paragraph from the article says it all for me. Marty's a class act and Smith and Spanos are asshats.

Couldn't really agree more with what's been said. I don't like Marty one bit, but when you put him at lame duck status, it's only right for him to allow his assistents to look for better jobs rather than be screwed in a year. It's classy of Marty to stand up for the guys he went to war with.

It's also a dirtbag thing to do for the Chargers. God, I hate saying Eli was right, but when you look at a move like this, how pathetic can you get? I think, despite my feelings toward Marty, that he was destined to be the third Super Bowl winner in a row to rid himself of the "can't win the big one" tag. The team is loaded and was going to go far again next season.

It's a shame a class act like LT is stuck with such a bush league ownership as the Chargers.

I want to see Jim Mora, Sr. hired... Just to see a reporter ask him right off the bat about how far the team can go in the playoffs!

Wow... this must suck for San Diego fans. 14-2, lose a playoff game you should have won, and then lose your top five coaches.

What scares me more than anything is that this good group of player are going to implode. When most of these guys near the end of their contracts, they are most likely going to leave and that is sad. The only coaches left out there are Ron Rivera and Mike Singletary and both would still have to find a staff if hired. At least with Marty, he had the rep and connections to find people, but the newbies aren't going to have that luxury.

I called them scumbags over their treatment of Drew Brees, so I can't say this is all that shocking to me.

The only way they can remedy this situation is by hiring Denny Green.

Doesn't Mike Martz have some history in the San Diego area?

It looks like the Raiders no longer have a lock on "worst head coaching job" in the league.

Yep, agree with all that's been said. What's even better is they are going to have a problem attracting candidates (similar to the Raiders). Who wants to be head coach knowing you have to be a yes man (your opinions on personnel will fall on deaf ears) and won't even be allowed to make decision on letting assistants interview. And who would want to come as an assistant knowing the team may not let you interview for better jobs?

Doesn't Mike Martz have some history in the San Diego area?

He has a house and boat in San Diego.


For what it's worth, Adam Schefter is reporting that possible candidates include Martz, Mariucci, Sherman, Turner, Lofton, Singletary. He's saying the Chargers will have particular interest in fthe first 3 since they are still drawing checks from their prior teams who fired them -- this will allow them to get these guys on the cheap since they still have to pay Schottenheimer. If he's right, this is how you're going to make head coaching decisions????:rolleyes:

The best part is that the combine is a week away and there's a chance they won't have a head coach or any coordinators in attendance. Hell, they may not even know what offense/defense they're playing in order to judge the right guys.

Not a surprise as everyone knew about the conflict between AJ and Marty. What's funny is some of you guys were ripping on Marty after the loss to NE, and now are calling him a class act.

Chargers still have the talent, and I think any coach would choose to coach them over the Raiders.

Maybe Parcells ain't so tired and ready to retire after all? :)

BTW, it amazes me that in an offseason that included moronic moves by both the Raiders (well, the continuing oddyssey there) and the Cowboys, that someone can still manage tot op their owners for stupidest, low-class move. Congrats, Spanos and Smith!

Not a surprise as everyone knew about the conflict between AJ and Marty. What's funny is some of you guys were ripping on Marty after the loss to NE, and now are calling him a class act.

Chargers still have the talent, and I think any coach would choose to coach them over the Raiders.

Nobody ripped on Marty for not being a class act. He was ripped on because of some poor game decision. You can lose a game and still have class (just not LT, ok, I'm kidding there).

Now, had Smith and Spanos recognized the poor decision making, they would have fired him right away after the season (and that would have been fine and fair to Marty). However, to wait now, is just classless and bad decision making. Then when you find out they were only keeping Marty because of his other staff shows just how stupid and clueless they are in terms of running the organization. Then you find out that Smith and Marty haven't been speaking for almost a year, and it makes Spanos decision to keep Marty bewildering. With that said, I will readily admit that Smith has been good at talent evaluation (but there's more to his job than just that).

The irony here for me? The Chargers are upset that Marty allowed his assistants to interview for other job. Now? The Chargers are going to go after other teams' assistant coaches in order to fill the holes in their coaching staff. I wonder if it would be wrong for other teams to deny their assistant coaches the opportunity to interview for those jobs.

Man, a year ago Gregg Williams was considered a top head coaching canidate....now since his defense shits the bed this year, nobody even interviewed him.

And it wouldn't suprise me to see the Chargers forget to interview a minority canidate...it would just be all too fitting for the asshats.

Nobody ripped on Marty for not being a class act. He was ripped on because of some poor game decision. You can lose a game and still have class (just not LT, ok, I'm kidding there).

Now, had Smith and Spanos recognized the poor decision making, they would have fired him right away after the season (and that would have been fine and fair to Marty). However, to wait now, is just classless and bad decision making. Then when you find out they were only keeping Marty because of his other staff shows just how stupid and clueless they are in terms of running the organization. Then you find out that Smith and Marty haven't been speaking for almost a year, and it makes Spanos decision to keep Marty bewildering. With that said, I will readily admit that Smith has been good at talent evaluation (but there's more to his job than just that).

I don't agree. Let him go, get a new head coach and let the new coach bring in his own assistants. They backed Marty too early, and are now taking some PR hits. Hopefully the next guy isn't so conservative.

If they make this move back two days after the playoff game, fine. If they make this move after Cam Cameron was hired, fine. But to make the move now is just silly. If the assistants were so important, why wait until they were all gone to fire the guy who you hold responsible for letting leave? Now you are a week before the combine and you have no coaching staff in place.

Thank you Chargers for making the Raiders look.........not so bad.

What better Raiders with coaches or Chargers without coaches?

I don't agree. Let him go, get a new head coach and let the new coach bring in his own assistants. They backed Marty too early, and are now taking some PR hits. Hopefully the next guy isn't so conservative.


Good lord.

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle things. Sometimes the area between the two is difficult to see. Other times it's easily seen.

This is one of the easy times Fouts. The Chargers had plenty of time to decide on how they were going to handle the Marty situation after the playoff loss. If they wanted to fire Marty, you do it right there. You don't wait until every other head coaching position is filled, then fire Marty and screw the guy over. Now Marty has no chance to be an NFL coach this year. It's a disgusting way to the situation. Class organizations don't do things like that.

This feud between him and the GM didn't suddenly pop up. It's been around forever. This is just a pathetic move and I'll be saying that if they go 16-0 with a Super Bowl title next year. You don't treat people that way, especially people who have been loyal to your organization for a number of years.

What stuns me most is the fact you can't figure out the difference between a "class act" and a "bad playoff coach." The two aren't the same anymore than a great playoff coach and a class act are tied together. Winning and losing doesn't make you a good person. I don't think anyone here ever bashed Marty the person (and I doubt anyone will ever do so after the reports coming out of SD today) We bashed Marty the playoff coach.

If the Chargers wanted to replace Marty the bad playoff coach, I'm good with it. They didn't have to screw over Marty the person in the process.

I think that Martz is a bad head coach--a great offensive coordinator, but a bad head coach.

But I would love to see what he could do with that San Diego offense.

Heard this on Mike and Mike this morning...

I haven' t heard anyone anywhere that thinks this move makes sense. As others have said, it's not getting rid of Marty that is all THAT bad, it's the way and timing of it. If you're going to do it, do it after the playoff loss. They have really put this team in a bad spot.

He has a house and boat in San Diego.

So he is Mike Martz, millionaire. He has a mansion and a yacht.

Heard this on Mike and Mike this morning...

I haven' t heard anyone anywhere that thinks this move makes sense. As others have said, it's not getting rid of Marty that is all THAT bad, it's the way and timing of it. If you're going to do it, do it after the playoff loss. They have really put this team in a bad spot.


Honestly, I don't care about the team. I think it'll recover just fine. They have a ton of talent. It's what they did to Marty that I had a problem with.

I had the same initial reaction as most in this thread, but things are a little too anti-Smith/Spanos here. The Chargers made a commitment to a guy who got completely outcouched at home in their first playoff game, and the guy then turns around and rejects a contract extension a few days later (the extension would've covered Marty through 2008) while subsequently letting most of his staff leave. This is the same guy who stopped wearing a headset throughout many of his team's games this year, I'd come to the conclusion his staff was important too. We're judging things by our own perception of events that have floated out into the press. Marty made himself a lame duck and then starts letting most of his staff leave? It's absurd to think that management should ride out the season with a guy who refuses to talk with the team's GM and is demonstrating no signs of sticking around when the year ends. I'm really having trouble with the "class act" stuff, there's just as much of an argument to say Marty should have resigned when he rejected that contract offer, his actions (or lack thereof) send a lot of signals he was just looking for what he got, the money for the final year of his contract and a clear path to another job.

This seems like a smart move to me (they're just currently losing the pr battle), and any coach that takes a job these days without realizing that the organization calls the shots is hopelessly naive. They should have no problem finding a coach, and this team is loaded. I have to think that if they somehow miss the playoffs it would've happened with or without Marty.

I had the same initial reaction as most in this thread, but things are a little too anti-Smith/Spanos here. The Chargers made a commitment to a guy who got completely outcouched at home in their first playoff game, and the guy then turns around and rejects a contract extension a few days later (the extension would've covered Marty through 2008) while subsequently letting most of his staff leave. This is the same guy who stopped wearing a headset throughout many of his team's games this year, I'd come to the conclusion his staff was important too. We're judging things by our own perception of events that have floated out into the press. Marty made himself a lame duck and then starts letting most of his staff leave? It's absurd to think that management should ride out the season with a guy who refuses to talk with the team's GM and is demonstrating no signs of sticking around when the year ends. I'm really having trouble with the "class act" stuff, there's just as much of an argument to say Marty should have resigned when he rejected that contract offer, his actions (or lack thereof) send a lot of signals he was just looking for what he got, the money for the final year of his contract and a clear path to another job.

This seems like a smart move to me (they're just currently losing the pr battle), and any coach that takes a job these days without realizing that the organization calls the shots is hopelessly naive. They should have no problem finding a coach, and this team is loaded. I have to think that if they somehow miss the playoffs it would've happened with or without Marty.

Got to disagree with you on two points here.

One, a big reason the assistants wanted to leave was because of the lack of job security Marty, and hence his staff, were given by the front office. Someone like Manusky or the TE coach may have stuck around and/or not been interested in leaving if the head coach was not a lame duck.

Two, why would Marty resign and forgo $4.5M and the opportunity to coach a very good team, with a chance at a Super Bowl, that he helped completely retool?

Add me to the list of folks who think the Chargers owner/GM are asshats.

Got to disagree with you on two points here.

One, a big reason the assistants wanted to leave was because of the lack of job security Marty, and hence his staff, were given by the front office. Someone like Manusky or the TE coach may have stuck around and/or not been interested in leaving if the head coach was not a lame duck.

Two, why would Marty resign and forgo $4.5M and the opportunity to coach a very good team, with a chance at a Super Bowl, that he helped completely retool?

If he resigned he could've almost certainly found another job, and he could've saved the team the turmoil of playing for a lame duck coach who has rejected a contract extension and allowed most of his staff to leave. If he wanted to stick around and win a Super Bowl, take the extension. My guess is Marty was playing hardball with contract negotiations, wanting more years and money, and slow walking the hiring of a new staff as leverage over management. As others have mentioned, Marty's experience and network give him certain advantages in rebuilding the staff that a rookie coach won't have, but Spanos probably just got fed up with the games and the bullcrap. When you play hardball, sometimes you lose (it's similar to Martyball in that way).

I'm just glad this didn't happen when the Steelers job was still open. God forbid one more season of Martyball in the 'Burgh.

I had the same initial reaction as most in this thread, but things are a little too anti-Smith/Spanos here. The Chargers made a commitment to a guy who got completely outcouched at home in their first playoff game, and the guy then turns around and rejects a contract extension a few days later (the extension would've covered Marty through 2008) while subsequently letting most of his staff leave. This is the same guy who stopped wearing a headset throughout many of his team's games this year, I'd come to the conclusion his staff was important too. We're judging things by our own perception of events that have floated out into the press. Marty made himself a lame duck and then starts letting most of his staff leave? It's absurd to think that management should ride out the season with a guy who refuses to talk with the team's GM and is demonstrating no signs of sticking around when the year ends. I'm really having trouble with the "class act" stuff, there's just as much of an argument to say Marty should have resigned when he rejected that contract offer, his actions (or lack thereof) send a lot of signals he was just looking for what he got, the money for the final year of his contract and a clear path to another job.

This seems like a smart move to me (they're just currently losing the pr battle), and any coach that takes a job these days without realizing that the organization calls the shots is hopelessly naive. They should have no problem finding a coach, and this team is loaded. I have to think that if they somehow miss the playoffs it would've happened with or without Marty.

I disagree as well. If the Chargers felt he was not the right coach then they should have fired him then. They would have able to keep all their assistants since A.J. Smith would have been the one giving out the permissions. You don't play games with a contract extension that many in the know believed was given for the sake of being able to say that they offered the extension. Secondly, it is not Marty's fault that Philipps and Cameron were hired as head coaches. The other coaches that left were all promotions. I can't see why Marty should have forced them to stay on his staff if they were in line for better jobs elsewhere.

If he resigned he could've almost certainly found another job, and he could've saved the team the turmoil of playing for a lame duck coach who has rejected a contract extension and allowed most of his staff to leave. If he wanted to stick around and win a Super Bowl, take the extension. My guess is Marty was playing hardball with contract negotiations, wanting more years and money, and slow walking the hiring of a new staff as leverage over management. As others have mentioned, Marty's experience and network give him certain advantages in rebuilding the staff that a rookie coach won't have, but Spanos probably just got fed up with the games and the bullcrap. When you play hardball, sometimes you lose (it's similar to Martyball in that way).

But, to me, the turmoil was created as much by Smith than by Marty, so why should he concern himself with it and give Smith the easy way out? And, you cannot tell me that, at his age, you would walk away from a cherry job, in a fantastic place to live, with a $4.5M left on the table.

The one-year contract extension was the biggest problem. Could you look your coaches in the eye and tell them not to look for other jobs, knowing that you are a lame-duck? This situation was created by the S.D. front office. It is nice to pretend that he could be, or you would be, chivalrous in a situation like this and that you would take one for the team, but when you have rebuilt something from the ground up and it is close to the best in the business, it would not be easy to be the bigger man (which I still think he is, in relation to Smith) and walk away.

But, to me, the turmoil was created as much by Smith than by Marty, so why should he concern himself with it and give Smith the easy way out? And, you cannot tell me that, at his age, you would walk away from a cherry job, in a fantastic place to live, with a $4.5M left on the table.

The one-year contract extension was the biggest problem. Could you look your coaches in the eye and tell them not to look for other jobs, knowing that you are a lame-duck? This situation was created by the S.D. front office. It is nice to pretend that he could be, or you would be, chivalrous in a situation like this and that you would take one for the team, but when you have rebuilt something from the ground up and it is close to the best in the business, it would not be easy to be the bigger man (which I still think he is, in relation to Smith) and walk away.

I agree with you on pretty much everything, and I'm not trying to say I would've quit. I'm just saying that this has all the hallmarks of negotiations I've seen between executives and investors/board members where the manager (in this case Marty) thinks they hold all the cards (teams have their coaching staffs filled, the best head coaching candidates have accepted new jobs, any potential internal candidates are gone), and it looks like the only solution for continuity and a successful transition is giving the person what they want. My guess is Marty figured he had them over a rail, and reached, either for a ridiculous extension, a removal of Smith, or any number of things, and Spanos got pissed. Keeping Marty was a tough pill to swallow to begin with, having him then dictate terms and hold the season hostage is another.

My basic point being, up the flagpole with this class act stuff, nobody's a white knight here and nobody's the devil. This looks like a powerplay gone wrong, not some kind of poor innocent Marty the victim stuff. He had an offer on the table to be the coach (or at least be paid) for two more years, he thought he could get more, and he was wrong, happens all the time.

Yahoo is reporting that the final nail in the coffin came when A.J. Smith wanted Marty to sign Ted Cottrell as the next DC. Marty wanted to go with Vic Fangio, John Pagano, or Kurt Schottenheimer. Cottrell could be on the short list of HC interviewees.

It's a weird situation. I feel the firing at this stage, is justified. Yet I also know that the reasons the firing is now justified (gutted staff), are the fault of San Diego upper management.

Basically, a bad choice initially (not giving Schottenheimer a real extension) eventually created the situation that they thought was the reason to fire him.

I wonder if Tommy Prothro would come out of retirement.......oh wait, he's dead. Nevermind.

Good lord.

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle things. Sometimes the area between the two is difficult to see. Other times it's easily seen.

This is one of the easy times Fouts. The Chargers had plenty of time to decide on how they were going to handle the Marty situation after the playoff loss. If they wanted to fire Marty, you do it right there. You don't wait until every other head coaching position is filled, then fire Marty and screw the guy over. Now Marty has no chance to be an NFL coach this year. It's a disgusting way to the situation. Class organizations don't do things like that.

This feud between him and the GM didn't suddenly pop up. It's been around forever. This is just a pathetic move and I'll be saying that if they go 16-0 with a Super Bowl title next year. You don't treat people that way, especially people who have been loyal to your organization for a number of years.

What stuns me most is the fact you can't figure out the difference between a "class act" and a "bad playoff coach." The two aren't the same anymore than a great playoff coach and a class act are tied together. Winning and losing doesn't make you a good person. I don't think anyone here ever bashed Marty the person (and I doubt anyone will ever do so after the reports coming out of SD today) We bashed Marty the playoff coach.

If the Chargers wanted to replace Marty the bad playoff coach, I'm good with it. They didn't have to screw over Marty the person in the process.

I didn't say they did it right. They are going to take their lumps for this move, and rightly so. Marty doesn't accept an extension, his assistants leave, then what do you do? Doesn't shock me as much as the rest of you.

I didn't say they did it right. They are going to take their lumps for this move, and rightly so. Marty doesn't accept an extension, his assistants leave, then what do you do? Doesn't shock me as much as the rest of you.

What do **I** do?

SD just became the team I hated most in the division. I hope they finish below the Raiders. I hope karma bites em in the ass and they fall apart.

I don't think it'll happen. . . but I wish nothing but losses for classless organizations. I hope this move backfires in an incredibly nasty way.

I can't see why Marty should have forced them to stay on his staff if they were in line for better jobs elsewhere.
Maybe because they're under contract? If the rules dictate that they need permission from the Chargers to leave while they're under contract, then I see nothing wrong with the Chargers telling them they can't interview for other jobs...especially since the rest of the coaching staff was gutted.

That being said, I also believe that the Chargers have gone about this the wrong way.

SD just became the team I hated most in the division. I hope they finish below the Raiders. I hope karma bites em in the ass and they fall apart.

I don't think it'll happen. . . but I wish nothing but losses for classless organizations. I hope this move backfires in an incredibly nasty way.

Ditto.

I liked the Chargers, but now I'm not sure if I'll ever root for them again.

I will still root for the Chargers, but I will detest the ownership. They have a tendency to become asses when things go well.

God, I hate saying Eli was right, but when you look at a move like this, how pathetic can you get?

Troy, that's bullshit. The Chargers organization put together a great team where even an inexperienced QB like Rivers can come away winning lots of games. The far more than Eli has ever done personally or as part of the Giants organization. I'm glad that the Bolts chose Rivers over Eli because no way Eli could have led this team to 14-2 last season, playoff game notwithstanding.

Besides, why the tears for a multi-millionaire. He'll walk away and/or get another job sometime and still live very, very comfortably.Sheesh, you get way, way too serious about this.

Troy, that's bullshit. The Chargers organization put together a great team where even an inexperienced QB like Rivers can come away winning lots of games. The far more than Eli has ever done personally or as part of the Giants organization. I'm glad that the Bolts chose Rivers over Eli because no way Eli could have led this team to 14-2 last season, playoff game notwithstanding.

Besides, why the tears for a multi-millionaire. He'll walk away and/or get another job sometime and still live very, very comfortably.Sheesh, you get way, way too serious about this.

Finally, somebody with a level head speaks up. Coaches get fired every year. Whoopdy do.

Finally, somebody with a level head speaks up. Coaches get fired every year. Whoopdy do.

Do coaches get fired every year just weeks after being retained and offered an extension?

Do coaches get fired every year just weeks after being retained and offered an extension?

You assume that you know what was going on behind the scenes. What they say publically or released to the public is never, ever the true picture.

Marty is a big boy, he'll be fine. I'm also positive he is not 100% innocent in all of this. Clearly there was bad blood on both sides, and the result is a less-than-ideal resolution for both sides. You think the Chargers enjoy having no coaching staff of any kind at this point? Something tells me they didn't do this just to be dicks to Marty.

Also, as a Broncos fan, this news is fantastic.

You assume that you know what was going on behind the scenes. What they say publically or released to the public is never, ever the true picture.

I don't assume anything.

The true picture I see is of an organization that could have dumped its coach, let him move on, and improved their team (in their minds) by hiring a number of available coaches, including one very strong candidate from within their organization.

This whole situation is remarkably stupid.

You assume that you know what was going on behind the scenes. What they say publically or released to the public is never, ever the true picture.

Ummm....I know everyone doesn't know what goes on behind the scenes, but the Chargers have long been known to not be loyal to both coaches and players. Think back to the number of players that have made the team what it is only to be shown no respect if there is a hint of perceived weakness.

C'mon you know the track record of the Spanos and it does not bode well. And they have always been weak when it comes to dealing with disputes. This is not the only issue that was publicized and ownership never put a stop to it immediately. There would be no situation the ownership had stepped in and forced them to deal with their problem in the earlier stages.

Say what you will, but you will see players leave at the end of their contracts because they won't believe that the team has any loyalty. It has happened before with this organization and that is why it pisses me off. They are not making it very attractive for other players to come there.

Also, as a Broncos fan, this news is fantastic.


What he said. I hope they hire Art Shell as HC, Clyde Christensen as OC, and Shawn Merriman's dealer as DC.

I hope they go 2-14 this year. (Yeah, I still hate the Raiders more...)


:D

Ummm....I know everyone doesn't know what goes on behind the scenes, but the Chargers have long been known to not be loyal to both coaches and players. Think back to the number of players that have made the team what it is only to be shown no respect if there is a hint of perceived weakness.

C'mon you know the track record of the Spanos and it does not bode well. And they have always been weak when it comes to dealing with disputes. This is not the only issue that was publicized and ownership never put a stop to it immediately. There would be no situation the ownership had stepped in and forced them to deal with their problem in the earlier stages.

Say what you will, but you will see players leave at the end of their contracts because they won't believe that the team has any loyalty. It has happened before with this organization and that is why it pisses me off. They are not making it very attractive for other players to come there.

Ant, you are speaking in absolutes ("never", "no situation"). If you were as close to other teams (like the Raiders the past several years, or the Bucs in 2001, and many other perceived fuckups by owners/gms/coaches that we tend to forget) as you are of Bolts, would you have a different perspective?

Sure, this is not the best time to be without a coaching staff but I believe Marty wanted to be fired after seeing his coaches leave and probably have had a bad attitude since the playoff loss, esp if you don't get along with your boss. Other teams have lost 4 coaches before in an off-season and managed to go on, same with the Bolts. I don't view Spanos any differently than some of the other owners in the league.

Ant, you are speaking in absolutes ("never", "no situation"). If you were as close to other teams (like the Raiders the past several years, or the Bucs in 2001, and many other perceived fuckups by owners/gms/coaches that we tend to forget) as you are of Bolts, would you have a different perspective?

Sure, this is not the best time to be without a coaching staff but I believe Marty wanted to be fired after seeing his coaches leave and probably have had a bad attitude since the playoff loss, esp if you don't get along with your boss. Other teams have lost 4 coaches before in an off-season and managed to go on, same with the Bolts. I don't view Spanos any differently than some of the other owners in the league.

I am definitely speaking from a perspective of a Chargers fan, but the point I was making has nothing to do with similarities/differences with other teams. The point I was trying to make is that the ownership if strengthening the perception that they don't back their coaches or players. That has been said about this ownership for years and I am telling you that players will be filing out of here once they have an opportunity if they don't advance any further than they did this past season.

Buc,

Eli is a horrible QB. No doubt about it. And the talent SD has is incredible. Smith has done a wonderful job. And of course, Marty is a millionare and will rebound just fine. . . next season.

None of that changes that what the Chargers did is a classless act. There is a way you treat people and a way you don't. SD chose the way you don't. Now, that's their choice. I'm good with it.

But I'll now cheer against them because of it. My rights. You must assume I go home at night and look for a list of teams and athletes to dislike, pop veins in anger and pass out.

I don't take it that seriously. For me, this is all a matter of fact attitude. I think they showed how classless they are and I hope it backfires on them. I will cheer for that to happen. Nothing overly serious about that. Nobody is going to die, nobody is going to give a damn what I think. Nor will the Chargers suddenly go 1-15 because I dislike them.

The world will go on just fine. I'm not wishing death or injury to any Charger or Charger staff member. I'm merely hoping they lose every game they play. That isn't all that serious, is it?

No, I guess not. LOL.

Just to clear up some misconceptions here. Neither a team nor a head coach is allowed under NFL rules to prevent an assistant from interviewing for a head coaching job after the team's season is over. So, no one could have prevented Cameron or Phillips from leaving. The dispute is over whether to allow assistants to interview for other non-HC jobs with other organizations. I just think it's really bad form to prohibit an assistant from aspiring to a promotion like a TE coach to offensive coordinator. It also does you no good because that assistant will leave immediately after his contract and word will get around very fast that the team won't allow it. This in turn makes finding assistants very difficult. That's why it's just stupid. And you have to say it is one indication of how the SD franchise will operate without Marty.

The Chargers were one of my favorite non-Jaguars AFC teams, and I loved them for a while. Now, for a while at least, they fall down very far. Let's go Chiefs!


-Anxiety

Following up on the whole extension business, one could argue it was pretty lame to include a $1 million buyout option. Those are not usually found in contracts with high profile coaches and its important to also point out that the Giants faced a similar situation with Tom Coughlin following the season and offered him a one-year extension with no buy-out included. Since Schottenheimer won six more games and advanced one round further than Coughlin, it seems unreasonable to expect Schottenheimer to accept a less-enticing deal.

I agree with you on pretty much everything, and I'm not trying to say I would've quit. I'm just saying that this has all the hallmarks of negotiations I've seen between executives and investors/board members where the manager (in this case Marty) thinks they hold all the cards (teams have their coaching staffs filled, the best head coaching candidates have accepted new jobs, any potential internal candidates are gone), and it looks like the only solution for continuity and a successful transition is giving the person what they want. My guess is Marty figured he had them over a rail, and reached, either for a ridiculous extension, a removal of Smith, or any number of things, and Spanos got pissed. Keeping Marty was a tough pill to swallow to begin with, having him then dictate terms and hold the season hostage is another.

My basic point being, up the flagpole with this class act stuff, nobody's a white knight here and nobody's the devil. This looks like a powerplay gone wrong, not some kind of poor innocent Marty the victim stuff. He had an offer on the table to be the coach (or at least be paid) for two more years, he thought he could get more, and he was wrong, happens all the time.

I don't believe the bolded portion for a second. However, we'll never know for years just what happened but I just don't believe in most of your hypothetical -- based on past history with Marty and the SD team before they came together. From what I understand, I believe Smith was pissed that Marty refused the extension because it meant some coaches would look to leaving since he was a lame duck and that's what happenend. Then you had a disagreement on which assistants would come in. I believe that's what it boiled down to with Spanos change of mind. However, I don't believe there was any powerplay. My guess is Marty wanted to have some input into the assistants (pretty reasonable request from a coach unless you work for the Raiders) and would not accept the extension with a buyout (also a reasonable position to take as discussed in my last post). I believe SD wouldn't budge on either and that made the relationship unworkable.

3 pages for the Chargers firing their coach? Must be a slow week.

I do all I can to stick up for people who lend their support to Patriot success. :)

3 pages for the Chargers firing their coach? Must be a slow week.

Still better than 3 pages of Bill Parcel threads. And much better than having Anna Nicole Smith on a every channel.

3 pages for the Chargers firing their coach? Must be a slow week.

No shit.

Yahoo is reporting that the final nail in the coffin came when A.J. Smith wanted Marty to sign Ted Cottrell as the next DC. Marty wanted to go with Vic Fangio, John Pagano, or Kurt Schottenheimer. Cottrell could be on the short list of HC interviewees.
Thanks for the info.

I believe this is what was the final straw for Marty. He wanted this DC and told the team to take it or leave.

Is Marty being fired different than a coach resigning?

I know if a coach resigns while still under contract you have to trade for his rights the next year. But, if a coach is fired can you just immediately sign him?

Can Marty coach somewhere else this year?

Just to clear up some misconceptions here. Neither a team nor a head coach is allowed under NFL rules to prevent an assistant from interviewing for a head coaching job after the team's season is over. So, no one could have prevented Cameron or Phillips from leaving. The dispute is over whether to allow assistants to interview for other non-HC jobs with other organizations. I just think it's really bad form to prohibit an assistant from aspiring to a promotion like a TE coach to offensive coordinator. It also does you no good because that assistant will leave immediately after his contract and word will get around very fast that the team won't allow it. This in turn makes finding assistants very difficult. That's why it's just stupid. And you have to say it is one indication of how the SD franchise will operate without Marty.

Agreed. For the coach that doesn't allow his assistants to interview for other jobs, good luck filling out your staff at your next stop. Kind of like San Diego will probably be dealing with.

Is Marty being fired different than a coach resigning?

I know if a coach resigns while still under contract you have to trade for his rights the next year. But, if a coach is fired can you just immediately sign him?

Can Marty coach somewhere else this year?

Sure, he can. Problem is, because of the time SD fired him, there is only one team currently looking for a head coach. . . the team that fired him.

He's screwed for this year. They reamed him. If they'd fired him the day after the loss, he'd almost certainly have had a job somewhere else this year. Teams usually don't make coaching changes in season. He's probably SOL until next year at this time.

I hope they at least gave him some vasoline.

I think that Martz is a bad head coach--a great offensive coordinator, but a bad head coach.


Yeah, when he's in the right situation all he has done is prove he can win a superbowl. Who wants a head coach like that ? :rolleyes:

Yeah, when he's in the right situation all he has done is prove he can win a superbowl. Who wants a head coach like that ? :rolleyes:

Ummmm....I don't remember him winning a Super Bowl as head coach. I only seem to remember him winning a Super Bowl as an Offensive Coordinator. But yeah, he did go to the Super Bowl as head coach, he just lost it.

Ummmm....I don't remember him winning a Super Bowl as head coach. I only seem to remember him winning a Super Bowl as an Offensive Coordinator. But yeah, he did go to the Super Bowl as head coach, he just lost it.

And he would have gotten away with it if it weren't for that meddling Tom Brady!

And he would have gotten away with it if it weren't for that meddling Tom Brady!

Damn it, I unintentionally set that up for Cronin Brady.

Ummmm....I don't remember him winning a Super Bowl as head coach. I only seem to remember him winning a Super Bowl as an Offensive Coordinator. But yeah, he did go to the Super Bowl as head coach, he just lost it.

touche.

BREAKING NEWS:

Nick Saban has just confirmed that he is not interested in becoming the head coach for the San Diego Chargers.

touche.

I read that as douche. Heh.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/02/13/0214zimmer.html
Zimmer, Mora to talk to Chargers
New Falcons coordinator, former coach candidates to replace Schottenheimer

By STEVE WYCHE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/14/07

In a surprise twist, newly hired Falcons defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer will interview for the vacant San Diego Chargers head coaching post, according to an NFL source with knowledge of the development.

San Diego fired head coach Marty Schottenheimer Monday and contacted the Falcons Tuesday to request permission to speak with Zimmer, who was hired in mid-January to head the defense under new coach Bobby Petrino.

The Falcons declined comment and Zimmer could not be reached.

It is not known when Zimmer is scheduled to interview, however the Falcons are not standing in the way of his potential promotion despite possibly being left in a bind so soon after hiring him from the Dallas Cowboys, where he served as defensive coordinator for the past seven seasons.

Former Falcons coach Jim Mora, who was fired New Year's Day and replaced by Petrino, also is scheduled to interview for the Chargers head-coaching job, a league source confirmed. Mora posted a 26-22 record with the Falcons in three season before being fired following a second straight season of not making the playoffs.
...
Zimmer, who was with Dallas since 1994, recently said in an interview with Journal-Constitution that he had aspirations of being a head coach. Zimmer was a candidate for the St. Louis Rams head coaching vacancy in 2006 and he turned down the University of Nebraska head-coaching job three years ago.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/02/13/0214zimmer.html
Zimmer, Mora to talk to Chargers
New Falcons coordinator, former coach candidates to replace Schottenheimer

By STEVE WYCHE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/14/07

In a surprise twist, newly hired Falcons defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer will interview for the vacant San Diego Chargers head coaching post, according to an NFL source with knowledge of the development.

San Diego fired head coach Marty Schottenheimer Monday and contacted the Falcons Tuesday to request permission to speak with Zimmer, who was hired in mid-January to head the defense under new coach Bobby Petrino.

The Falcons declined comment and Zimmer could not be reached.

It is not known when Zimmer is scheduled to interview, however the Falcons are not standing in the way of his potential promotion despite possibly being left in a bind so soon after hiring him from the Dallas Cowboys, where he served as defensive coordinator for the past seven seasons.

Former Falcons coach Jim Mora, who was fired New Year's Day and replaced by Petrino, also is scheduled to interview for the Chargers head-coaching job, a league source confirmed. Mora posted a 26-22 record with the Falcons in three season before being fired following a second straight season of not making the playoffs.
...
Zimmer, who was with Dallas since 1994, recently said in an interview with Journal-Constitution that he had aspirations of being a head coach. Zimmer was a candidate for the St. Louis Rams head coaching vacancy in 2006 and he turned down the University of Nebraska head-coaching job three years ago.

[On my knees holding my fist to the air] Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

BREAKING NEWS:

Nick Saban has just confirmed that he is not interested in becoming the head coach for the San Diego Chargers.Well that seals it - He'll take the job just before spring practice...

Surprised that the Chargers aren't going after Norm Chow and trying to reuinite him with Rivers...

He's screwed for this year. They reamed him. If they'd fired him the day after the loss, he'd almost certainly have had a job somewhere else this year. Teams usually don't make coaching changes in season. He's probably SOL until next year at this time.

I hope they at least gave him some vasoline.
The situation certainly isn't optimal for Marty, but I think you're exaggerating a bit. He is still going to get paid $4M next season. Worst case he earns some side cash on TV or as a consultant this season and gets a job next year.

Maybe he can get LASIK. His glasses have to be the thickest I've ever seen on a head coach.

ESPN is reporting that Norv Turner is going to be the next head coach.

No link yet

Maybe he can get LASIK. His glasses have to be the thickest I've ever seen on a head coach.


Even thicker than Joe Paterno's?

I've never seen so much fervor over a guy as incompetent as a head coach as Norv Turner. He should change his name to Kevin Loughery.

And Ted Cottrell is going to be DC

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2771126

San Francisco 49ers offensive coordinator Norv Turner has agreed in principle to become the San Diego Chargers next coach, sources told ESPN.com.

In addition to the Turner hiring, longtime league assistant coach Ted Cottrell will meet early this week with San Diego officials which should result in the Chargers hiring Cottrell as the club's new defensive coordinator.

Cottrell, who worked in the NFL office in 2006, has extensive experience with the 3-4 defense that San Diego used last season.

Turner is one of six candidates to have interviewed for the position. The other known head coach candidates  Gary Gibbs (New Orleans), Mike Zimmer (Atlanta), Mike Singletary (San Francisco), Ron Rivera (Chicago) and Rex Ryan (Baltimore)  are all coaches whose expertise is on the defensive side. All but Singletary are current coordinators.

Turner has twice previously been a head coach in the league. Cottrell has interviewed in the past for head coach positions, and came very close to landing the top job in San Francisco four years ago, but the meeting with Chargers officials is strictly an interview for the team's defensive coordinator spot, several sources said.

San Diego officials prefer to retain a 3-4 defense, the scheme for which the personnel is best suited, and hiring Cottrell would permit that. Cottrell was actually recommended to Schottenheimer by Smith when then-Chargers defensive coordinator Wade Phillips was hired by the Dallas Cowboys as their new head coach.

Marty Schottenheimer instead leaned toward hiring his younger brother, Kurt Schottenheimer, as the replacement for Phillips. In addition to Marty Schottenheimer, the Chargers, who posted an NFL-best 14-2 record in 2006 but were ousted in the divisional round of the playoffs, have lost five assistant coaches since the end of the season. That includes both coordinators.

Cottrell, 59, possesses 22 seasons of NFL experience as an assistant coach, including three stints as a defensive coordinator. He most recently worked as coordinator for the Minnesota Vikings (2004-2005). Cottrell lost his job when the Vikings fired coach Mike Tice after the 2005 season.

Alex Smith gets his 3rd offensive coordinator in 3 years. The odds of him making another big leap forward this year just got a bit longer. I wonder if Jerry Sullivan will move up to replace him or will Nolan bring someone in from outside the organization. Either way, they are expected to keep the same offense Turner installed last year.

The situation certainly isn't optimal for Marty, but I think you're exaggerating a bit. He is still going to get paid $4M next season. Worst case he earns some side cash on TV or as a consultant this season and gets a job next year.

Marty is already a very, very rich man. What he loves to do is coach professional football. The Chargers took that away from him. I'm not saying Marty is going to commit ritual suicide because he got fired, I am saying the Chargers handled the situation horribly and showed an incredible lack of respect to a guy who gave them a lot of it.

showed an incredible amount of patience to a guy who couldn't give one of the best teams in years a single @%!$# playoff win.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Fixed.

Marty is already a very, very rich man. What he loves to do is coach professional football. The Chargers took that away from him. I'm not saying Marty is going to commit ritual suicide because he got fired, I am saying the Chargers handled the situation horribly and showed an incredible lack of respect to a guy who gave them a lot of it.

He knew he was going to be fired. Did you see his face when he was fired? The dude was smiling bigger then when Peyton won the Super Bowl. He'll be the next head coach of the Giants or Panthers

Fixed.

Marty the horrible playoff coach and Marty the person are two very, very different things.

I've always thought that when we are dissing the abilities of someone, we are smart enough to seperate the two. After seeing a lot of the thoughts about Marty in this thread, I'm questioning that.

We all jump on players who act selfish and treat their teams like crap, yet when an organization does it, it's just fine? The Chargers just pulled off a classless move. Marty "the person" was treated unfairly. As a "coach" he probably should have been let go. But they didn't have to wait until every other job was filled to do it.

I can't believe that's so difficult a concept to grasp.

Marty the horrible playoff coach and Marty the person are two very, very different things.

I've always thought that when we are dissing the abilities of someone, we are smart enough to seperate the two. After seeing a lot of the thoughts about Marty in this thread, I'm questioning that.


Marty the coach is who got fired.

I would say being able to, at some point, lead a talented team to playoff victories are at or near the top of the list of qualifications to fill that position.

When to fire him ? Whenever the upper management makes the decision.

Simple

Marty the coach is who got fired.

I would say being able to, at some point, lead a talented team to playoff victories are at or near the top of the list of qualifications to fill that position.

When to fire him ? Whenever the upper management makes the decision.

Simple

they clearly waited on purpose to screw the guy. I don't really care but "differences with the GM" have been present for sometime including the day after they lost the playoff game. present even a week later.

Marty the coach is who got fired.

I would say being able to, at some point, lead a talented team to playoff victories are at or near the top of the list of qualifications to fill that position.

When to fire him ? Whenever the upper management makes the decision.

Simple

Fair enough.

if this is the treatment all coaches can expect, I have no issues with what Nick Saban did, even the lying. Screw it, every man for himself. It's all about yourself and the proper way to treat people shouldn't interfere. I'm good with it.

SD hired a horrific replacement. Let's see if Turner generates them a playoff win.

I've never seen so much fervor over a guy as incompetent as a head coach as Norv Turner.

Yeah, I kind of chuckle when I hear his name tossed about. Good luck with this one, San Diego.

Hilarious. AJ Smith privately griping that Marty couldn't win SD any playoff games, and then they go hire Turner who has made the playoffs once in 9 seasons as a head coach and has lost way more than he has won in the regular season.

So, um, Don Zimmer doesn't get the job?

This confirms what the problem in San Diego is/was -- it wasn't Marty. Anybody who thinks Norv Turner is the answer to any question hasn't paid attention to the NFL over the past 10 years. It really makes you question whether the success San Diego has had in player procurement has been wild ass luck, great scouts or Marty and his staff coaching up. Or steroids.

Regardless, being someone who wants to see the Chargers vomit all over themselves next season, this is great news.

Retread

Martyball should move back to cleveland after they fire Romeo Buffet after this season.

Martyball should move back to cleveland after they fire Romeo Buffet after this season.

I actually give this a 75% chance of happening.

Jeez, this is still going strong. Get over it already. A coach couldn't bring a team to the big game, and he gets canned. Big deal. Bring in the next coach and tell them to give the ball to LT.

Alex Smith gets his 3rd offensive coordinator in 3 years. The odds of him making another big leap forward this year just got a bit longer. I wonder if Jerry Sullivan will move up to replace him or will Nolan bring someone in from outside the organization. Either way, they are expected to keep the same offense Turner installed last year.

Damn you SD for screwing us and the development of Alex Smith. I say we hire Mooch back. He did a solid job with Favre and Garcia.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread but... we go from a coach that can't win in the playoffs, to a coach that can't win period.

Fanfuckingtastic... wtg Chargers.

Some tidbits from Elias:

Norv Turner is getting a third chance despite posting a 58-82-1 (.415) record in his first two head-coaching jobs, in Washington and Oakland. Only three coaches in NFL history had lower winning percentages than Turner at the time of their third hiring.

It's definitly a good hire for a team on the cusp of a SB berth.

It's definitly a good hire for a team on the cusp of a SB berth.

I agree (yes I know it was sarcasm) it is great for the Colts, the Pats and every other AFC team in contention next year.

There's a reasonable chance this team is going to win in spite of Turner. I mean, the irony is that they probably would have won the Pats game if Turner was the coach instead of Marty, since it took a couple of active Marty decisions I bet Turner wouldn't have made to lose that game.

Still, as a Broncos fan, I like our chances now as compared to a couple of weeks ago.

And this is exactly why you don't get rid of a 14-2 coach. I can not believe the Chargers are 1-2 and, the defense looks like crap and Tomlinson has averaged less than 3 yards a carry in the past two games. Sure, it's still early, but the defense is already a bad sign.

I stand by the argument that getting rid of Marty wasn't the problem; getting rid of him after all other coaching vacancies were filled, with all the shifting in coordinators already taking place, was moronic.

I stand by the argument that getting rid of Marty wasn't the problem; getting rid of him after all other coaching vacancies were filled, with all the shifting in coordinators already taking place, was moronic.

Yes. Even having Cam as the head coach would have been better.

I guess I just wanted to bring this thread back up because there were a few people on here that believed that you can bring any coach in this situation and the Chargers would do fine because of their talent. That is not proving to be the case. This team should steamroll over Kansas City and if that game ends up being close, this is going to be a long season.

Norv is not a head coach.

I stand by the argument that getting rid of Marty wasn't the problem; getting rid of him after all other coaching vacancies were filled, with all the shifting in coordinators already taking place, was moronic.

I agree to a point. The fact remains that even at that late hour, there were other head coaches they could have hired who either deserved a chance or were far superior to Turner. Some people may think I'm insane, but they'd seriously have been better off hiring Mike Martz. Turner CANNOT coach. He's one of the worst HC's in history and his teams always play below their talent level.

Hell, if I were an SD fan, I think I'd be cheering for a 6-10 season now. (not gonna happen of course) If you get that, Norv loses his job. You also get a top 10 pick and an extra high draft choice for Michael Turner. Then next year you have a real chance to do something.

Instead they'll win 10 with Norv, be bounced from the playoffs instantly and keep him around for another year of mediocrity. It was a horrific decision by the Chargers from day one and watching them play simply pounds the point home on a weekly basis.

Dola:

Norv will be a punchline though.

Who is the only person who can shut down Ladamion Tomlinson?

Dola:

Norv will be a punchline though.

Who is the only person who can shut down Ladamion Tomlinson?

I have no idea. Who is Ladamion Tomlinson?

I agree to a point. The fact remains that even at that late hour, there were other head coaches they could have hired who either deserved a chance or were far superior to Turner. Some people may think I'm insane, but they'd seriously have been better off hiring Mike Martz. Turner CANNOT coach. He's one of the worst HC's in history and his teams always play below their talent level.

Hell, if I were an SD fan, I think I'd be cheering for a 6-10 season now. (not gonna happen of course) If you get that, Norv loses his job. You also get a top 10 pick and an extra high draft choice for Michael Turner. Then next year you have a real chance to do something.

Instead they'll win 10 with Norv, be bounced from the playoffs instantly and keep him around for another year of mediocrity. It was a horrific decision by the Chargers from day one and watching them play simply pounds the point home on a weekly basis.

Agreed. Let's call "Firing your coach with the best 14 alternatives gone" idiotic move #1a, and "Hiring the 347th best choice" idiotic move #1b.

If Marty would have returned as coach, the Chargers would have gone 16-0 and then lost their first playoff game.

I never thought I would say this, but thank god that Jerry went after Wade instead of Norv...

I want the Bengals to get Marty.....those two together should cancel each other out and make a perfect team.

If Marty would have returned as coach, the Chargers would have gone 16-0 and then lost their first playoff game.

I think you are missing the point. It's not like this is a decision between being a dominant team and losing in the playoffs with Marty or being an average team and winning the Super Bowl with Norv.

With Norv, you still get the losses in the playoffs, but your team doesn't even get to the playoffs a lot of the time.

Again, I have no problems with them firing Marty. I have a problem with them replacing him with one of the single most inept head coaches of all time. If it isn't for Rex Grossman, the Chargers are 0-3 right now.

I'm sure saying that Rich Kotite would have been a better choice is an exaggeration, but I'm not sure how big an exaggeration.

On a scale of 1-10, just how frustrated do you think Tomlinson is right now, based on:
a.) the ESPN mag article at the start of the year
b.) his sideline argument with Rivers today
c.) looking on the sideline and seeing a coach with a 59-84-1 record

If Marty would have returned as coach, the Chargers would have gone 16-0 and then lost their first playoff game.

That's a WAY better season than the Chargers are going to have this year.

I think it was stupid to fire him, no matter who they brought in. You're not going to improve your regular season, and how many proven playoff winning coaches were on the market (even at the beginning of the off-season). Marty's playoff record is bad, but it's still only about a season's worth of games - a pretty small sample size.

And let's not forget, Marty wasn't fired because he lost one game to the Patriots (a pretty good team by the way), but because he couldn't get along with the GM.

Yes. Even having Cam as the head coach would have been better.

Talk to Hoosier fans.

The Rams should have signed Marty.

Actually has Norv ever been to the playoffs as a head coach? I thought I heard about replacing a head coach who has always lost in the first round of the playoffs with a coach who actually has never gotten to the playoffs?

And let's not forget, Marty wasn't fired because he lost one game to the Patriots (a pretty good team by the way), but because he couldn't get along with the GM.

Only about half correct...Marty was fired because the OC and DC left for head coaching jobs and at least 2 other position coaches left for coordinator jobs. After this happened, Marty wanted to bring in his brother to be DC (with no 3-4 experience) while AJ Smith wanted Ted Cottrell. Sure, Ted Cottrell sucks, but I'm not sure the Chargers wouldn't be 1-2 right now with Marty as head coach, Clarence Shelmon calling plays on offense and Kurt Schottenheimer as the DC.

The team has had a bunch of problems, but if you've actually watched the games the coaches can only take so much of the blame. The OLine was great last year - this year, they're getting pushed back on running plays and collapsing on passing plays. The defense has 2 new ILB's who are doing a shit job in coverage (Letting Donnie Edwards go was a huge mistake....AJ's fault, but not Norv's). Rivers played like shit in the first two games and it didn't look like coaching had anything to do with it (Int's thrown to linebackers who are in clear view when looking at the receiver).

As far as I can tell, here are the coaching mistakes that have contributed to the worse season are as follows:
1) Defense isn't getting enough pressure on the QB which is leaving the secondary out to dry. It seems like when they do blitz, the qb picks it up and gets away a quick completion. Seems to me that the blitzes aren't being disguised enough. Also, Merriman is being put back into coverage more often....why?

2) Offensively (at the end of the GB game), the Chargers reverted back to Martyball on their last few possessions with the lead. Run-Run-Pass. Run-Run-Pass. Prior to that, Norv actually called a really, really nice game. Philip Rivers got into a rhythm and the team was actually making some nice drives. Too predictable though at the end, and that hurt.

So, I know the easy thing is to say how much Norv sucks and how much of a mistake it was to fire Marty. But if you actually watch Chargers games you'd find that the offense is being held back by poor Oline play (and they did ok in spite of it this week) and the defense is stopped by a lack of pressure on the QB. Both of these things will more than likely improve as the season wears on and I still think the Chargers can win 10-11 games and take the AFC West. I could be wrong on this, but from what I've seen, Norv can't take all (or even most) of the blame.

Talk to Hoosier fans.


Or talk to Hoosier and Dolphin fans. :(

Only about half correct...Marty was fired because the OC and DC left for head coaching jobs and at least 2 other position coaches left for coordinator jobs. After this happened, Marty wanted to bring in his brother to be DC (with no 3-4 experience) while AJ Smith wanted Ted Cottrell. Sure, Ted Cottrell sucks, but I'm not sure the Chargers wouldn't be 1-2 right now with Marty as head coach, Clarence Shelmon calling plays on offense and Kurt Schottenheimer as the DC.

The team has had a bunch of problems, but if you've actually watched the games the coaches can only take so much of the blame. The OLine was great last year - this year, they're getting pushed back on running plays and collapsing on passing plays. The defense has 2 new ILB's who are doing a shit job in coverage (Letting Donnie Edwards go was a huge mistake....AJ's fault, but not Norv's). Rivers played like shit in the first two games and it didn't look like coaching had anything to do with it (Int's thrown to linebackers who are in clear view when looking at the receiver).

As far as I can tell, here are the coaching mistakes that have contributed to the worse season are as follows:
1) Defense isn't getting enough pressure on the QB which is leaving the secondary out to dry. It seems like when they do blitz, the qb picks it up and gets away a quick completion. Seems to me that the blitzes aren't being disguised enough. Also, Merriman is being put back into coverage more often....why?

2) Offensively (at the end of the GB game), the Chargers reverted back to Martyball on their last few possessions with the lead. Run-Run-Pass. Run-Run-Pass. Prior to that, Norv actually called a really, really nice game. Philip Rivers got into a rhythm and the team was actually making some nice drives. Too predictable though at the end, and that hurt.

So, I know the easy thing is to say how much Norv sucks and how much of a mistake it was to fire Marty. But if you actually watch Chargers games you'd find that the offense is being held back by poor Oline play (and they did ok in spite of it this week) and the defense is stopped by a lack of pressure on the QB. Both of these things will more than likely improve as the season wears on and I still think the Chargers can win 10-11 games and take the AFC West. I could be wrong on this, but from what I've seen, Norv can't take all (or even most) of the blame.

No...I can still say Norv sucks. Under Marty, he would have immediately put a stop to some of the meltdowns. He would be in their face if the Oline wasn't performing like they were capable of doing and LT would not have under 3 yards a carry in the last two games. To say that a 14-2 coach made no difference to this team just boggles my mind. Now I am not saying that he is the sole reason, but he definitely had the pull to bring in some good assistants once the others left. Plus he could have easily taken over Defensive Coordinator duties. Norv sucks all the way around and doesn't have the respect or pull that Marty had.

I have watched all three Charger games.

I see a team that's unprepared and has come out flat on offense three straight games. That's coaching.

I see a QB who is regressing. You can blame anyone you like, but to me that's a coaching issue.

I see something wildly different than you do on defense. I don't see huge issues with the MLB at all. NE and GB slaughtered the Chargers through the air and on the outside. I think each team had about 5 catches from the TE postion, but had two WR each with close to 100 yards. Both the Pack and Pats used the run only as a sidebar to what they were really trying to do. . . attack the Charger CB's. The fact they played with the same exact gameplan as they did with NE, against a team with an even worse running game? That's coaching.


Football Outsiders has shown OC's and DC's are actually a bit overrated in the long haul. The Patriots lost both last a couple of years ago and weren't overly impacted by it. Of course they had stability from the head coaching position and a real head coach, so maybe that's why it didn't matter so much.

No...I can still say Norv sucks. Under Marty, he would have immediately put a stop to some of the meltdowns. He would be in their face if the Oline wasn't performing like they were capable of doing and LT would not have under 3 yards a carry in the last two games. To say that a 14-2 coach made no difference to this team just boggles my mind. Now I am not saying that he is the sole reason, but he definitely had the pull to bring in some good assistants once the others left. Plus he could have easily taken over Defensive Coordinator duties. Norv sucks all the way around and doesn't have the respect or pull that Marty had.

I never said Marty made no difference last year, but if he was the coach this year with a new OC and DC, do you honestly think they'd be better than 1-2 right now? Playing "Martyball" at the end is what lost the GB game...imagine if they had the offensive philosophy the entire game. For as good a coach Marty is, it sure is easy to forget he underachieved in 2005 (9-7), coached as horrible a game as possible vs. New England in last year's playoffs and handed off a very large portion of playcalling duties to Cameron and Phillips. All I'm saying is we should let this season play out before blaming Norv.

As a disclaimer, if they lose this week at home against an awful KC team, I take back all that I said about Norv.:)

I have watched all three Charger games.

I see a team that's unprepared and has come out flat on offense three straight games. That's coaching.

I see a QB who is regressing. You can blame anyone you like, but to me that's a coaching issue.

I see something wildly different than you do on defense. I don't see huge issues with the MLB at all. NE and GB slaughtered the Chargers through the air and on the outside. I think each team had about 5 catches from the TE postion, but had two WR each with close to 100 yards. Both the Pack and Pats used the run only as a sidebar to what they were really trying to do. . . attack the Charger CB's. The fact they played with the same exact gameplan as they did with NE, against a team with an even worse running game? That's coaching.


Football Outsiders has shown OC's and DC's are actually a bit overrated in the long haul. The Patriots lost both last a couple of years ago and weren't overly impacted by it. Of course they had stability from the head coaching position and a real head coach, so maybe that's why it didn't matter so much.

Agree on the first point for the first two games...I thought they came out and played much better on offense (considering the Oline troubles) against GB. But you have to remember, they came out flat numerous times offensively last year. Baltimore, 2nd Oakland Game, Cincy, Denver where they needed the come back are ones I can think of off the top of my head. It hurt this year since you aren't coming back against New England when you're down 24.

I disagree on the 2nd point that it's this coaching staff that's caused Rivers to regress. He looked horrible-average the last third of the season last year. The first 2 games of this year looked like a continuation of that. Against Green Bay, I thought he looked like he did in the beginning of last year when he played well - he was confident, making his throws on third down, etc. He got into a rhythm and only had a few bad passes (missed 3rd and 3 throw, INT).

As for the MLB...I meant that they're a liability in coverage. Quick slants killed the Chargers. I was going to say that the playing of the corners 10 yards off the line of scrimmage like the New England game was what hurt, but they adjusted and played tighter vs Green Bay. I just wish that tighter equated to playing better.

Haven't seen the Chargers play at all this season, but their opening schedule is absolutely brutal. Making judgements on how this team will do based on facing what will likely be three of the top 5 defenses in the NFL is completely unfair and pointless.

EDIT: I happen to think that Norv sucks as well, but it's not based on the last three games.

i don't think you ever replace a 14-2 coach. and you especially don't replace him with Norv, who is best suited as an OC. at least after this SD mess he won't have to worry about going through this again, cuz i can't think he'll ever get another shot at being a HC.

AJ Smith should have brought in at least one serviceable WR to go along with Gates. or just make Gates a WR every down and stop this TE farce. they line him up as a TE when they need him to take a break from running WR routes.

i don't think you ever replace a 14-2 coach. and you especially don't replace him with Norv, who is best suited as an OC. at least after this SD mess he won't have to worry about going through this again, cuz i can't think he'll ever get another shot at being a HC.

AJ Smith should have brought in at least one serviceable WR to go along with Gates. or just make Gates a WR every down and stop this TE farce. they line him up as a TE when they need him to take a break from running WR routes.

Great post.

Vincent Jackson is definitely more than a serviceable WR and Gates should not line up as a WR every down. There's a big difference between doing it once in awhile, or motioning into the slot, and trying to beat CBs downfield or run precise routes every play.

Vincent Jackson is definitely more than a serviceable WR and Gates should not line up as a WR every down. There's a big difference between doing it once in awhile, or motioning into the slot, and trying to beat CBs downfield or run precise routes every play.

Agreed. Jackson is a pretty solid WR. They drafted a WR #1 this year. Gates is fine in limited action on a CB, not every down though.

FWIW, Norv is an offensive guy...something they didn't need considering they had a great offense and he didn't need to install "his" offense. If anything, San Diego is weak on the defensive side of the ball.

Wade Phillips, on the other hand, isn't doing well shoring up Dallas' offense.

Agreed. Jackson is a pretty solid WR. They drafted a WR #1 this year. Gates is fine in limited action on a CB, not every down though.

Also agreed. Although I liked Craig Davis a lot more before he unofficially changed his name to "Buster."

Can't agree that Marty wouldn't be doing better. I think you all forget that Marty is a great regular season coach. He is 200 - 126 - 1 (0.613) in the regular season. Martyball would have worked against GB because Marty's defense wouldn't have sucked so bad.

It's his playoff record which is subpar but even it isn't downright terrible at 5-13.

Bottom line: Norv is a terrible regular season coach so he can't even really get you to the playoffs. With Norv, SD may not make playoffs. With Marty, SD easily makes playoffs but loses again to NE or Indy. In the end same result.

I think it's been said before, getting rid of Marty wasn't the disastrous part of Smith's decision (because of his playoff problems), it was hiring Norv to replace him. Absolutely mind-boggling.

Can't agree that Marty wouldn't be doing better. I think you all forget that Marty is a great regular season coach. He is 200 - 126 - 1 (0.613) in the regular season. Martyball would have worked against GB because Marty's defense wouldn't have sucked so bad.

It's his playoff record which is subpar but even it isn't downright terrible at 5-13.

Bottom line: Norv is a terrible regular season coach so he can't even really get you to the playoffs. With Norv, SD may not make playoffs. With Marty, SD easily makes playoffs but loses again to NE or Indy. In the end same result.

I think it's been said before, getting rid of Marty wasn't the disastrous part of Smith's decision (because of his playoff problems), it was hiring Norv to replace him. Absolutely mind-boggling.

Here is the thing: I've bashed Marty as much as anyone. I've talked about how poorly he coaches in big playoff games and how he makes critical mistakes.

Yet. . . all it takes is once. Is it really that far out of line to think he couldn't have beat the Patriots and/or Colts this year? Everyone had given up on Tony Dungy/Manning doing it and they broke through. Everyone had given up on Cowher doing it and he found a way. How much is our opinion of Marty changed if Ernest Byner doesn't fumble the ball on the one yard line or the Rich Karlis FG in OT moves three inches more to the left?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Marty fan by any stretch and I have no issues with the team replacing him. (as I've said above) But I don't find it impossible or just write him off before the playoffs start and say he CAN NEVER win a big game in the playoffs. I actually think there is at least a 50/50 shot they'd have broken through this year. That's 50 points higher than the chance I give them with Norv.

Marty could still do it one year, I'll give you that. But not this year. There is just no way they are beating Indy or NE this year, with or without Marty. Which isn't saying all that much. I don't think any other team could either.

The SB this year depends on 2 games. The regular season contest between Indy and NE to decide who gets home field, to aid in winning the AFC championship game. Everyone else is playing for 3rd place.

Marty could still do it one year, I'll give you that. But not this year. There is just no way they are beating Indy or NE this year, with or without Marty. Which isn't saying all that much. I don't think any other team could either.

The SB this year depends on 2 games. The regular season contest between Indy and NE to decide who gets home field, to aid in winning the AFC championship game. Everyone else is playing for 3rd place.

This is pure insanity. The Patriots have got off to a scorching start. But all it takes is a twisted knee from either Brady or Moss to change things 100%. Indy doesn't go anywhere without Manning. In the modern day, cap based NFL it's just as critical that your star players get through the year healthy as it is the total construction of the team.

It's also not unheard of for a ton of things to change the complection of games. Brady hates the rain for instance. What if the Chargers catch him in a driving rain storm and Brady has an off day?

I didn't have that much confidence in '98 when Denver was clearly the class of the AFC and nobody else came close. That year we won a lot of games with Bumbly Brister at QB. Yet we went into the locker room trailing the Jets at halftime of the AFC championship game. To many things can happen in this game to annoit anyone as champs or AFC Championship locks.

IF the Patriots and Colts stay healthy and IF they both play their B+ to A+ games in the playoffs, then everyone else is fighting for third. Those are monsteous IF's. And a Chargers team playing like last years, with full confidence has every bit the ability and talent of the two teams you mentioned. Why don't we wait 16 games or so before we start talking about Championships for either the Patriots or Colts. (or on the NFC side, the Cowboys, who everyone has walking straight through to the title game now)

Dola:

As a Patriots fan, you should know all to well the folly of making statements like this early in the season. Flash back to 2003. The Patriots were coming off a mediocre season and started the year off 2-2.

Meanwhile the heavily favored Colts and Chiefs got off to 4-0 starts. (with the Chiefs just destroying teams) The Titans were also expected to be better than the Pats that year and started off 3-1. (with their only loss to the Colts)

We all know what happened after that. The Patriots didn't lose another game that year. Again, let's just hold off before we start talking about teams playing for third place. It's early.

Brady hates the rain for instance.

I'll comment on this line for sure. What are you smoking? Where do you get this stuff, really? I know that Manning hates grass, so look out there, Colts are done. And I hear Romo's a vegetarian, so if they have to play Philly and there is a strong smell of cheese steak in the air, then the 'Boys are done. I try to avoid prognosticating based on a fictional weather report some 4-6 months out. Anyways, no shit an injury to Brady or Manning affects things. Did you even have to bring that up? I mean, that's a given. So, I'm sorry I didn't preface my comment with an "if." I thought that was obvious.

But more to the point, it truly is amazing however that Brady "hates" rain but yet I guess he loves below freezing temperatures (i.e. if he can play in the freezing snow, he can play in the rain). Doesn't compute. I mean is there a QB out there who likes the rain over good weather? Or any players for that matter?

I'll comment on this line for sure. What are you smoking? Where do you get this stuff, really? I know that Manning hates grass, so look out there, Colts are done. And I hear Romo's a vegetarian, so if they have to play Philly and there is a strong smell of cheese steak in the air, then the 'Boys are done. I try to avoid prognosticating based on a fictional weather report some 4-6 months out. Anyways, no shit an injury to Brady or Manning affects things. Did you even have to bring that up? I mean, that's a given. So, I'm sorry I didn't preface my comment with an "if." I thought that was obvious.

But more to the point, it truly is amazing however that Brady "hates" rain but yet I guess he loves below freezing temperatures (i.e. if he can play in the freezing snow, he can play in the rain). Doesn't compute. I mean is there a QB out there who likes the rain over good weather? Or any players for that matter?

Maybe I'm wrong on Brady. I know he plays good in colder temps, but I swore I saw somewhere where he hated playing in the rain. That's the smallest of the entire points.

Sometimes silly, stupid crap like that matters. (see Dan Fouts and the Chargers going into frigid Cincy in the early 80's, the game was over before it started. It's things like that you can't predict. (and yes, some QB's are much, much worse in the rain and are more impacted by it than others are)

That's why it's so asinine to start blabbing after four weeks about teams fighting for third place. Want to make that type of comment about the EPL where there are teams with huge financial advantages as well as a wealth of talent? Fine. Making it about the NFL is just dumb. Sorry, you aren't getting me to change my mind about that.

The SB this year depends on 2 games. The regular season contest between Indy and NE to decide who gets home field, to aid in winning the AFC championship game. Everyone else is playing for 3rd place.

What's the second game again (depends on 2 games)?

Seriously, tho. Aside from injuries in the NFL being the biggest factor, I don't think either of those teams is going to go undefeated aside from that game between the two of them. 15-1 and 16-0 teams don't grow on trees and 14-2 ones aren't all that common. There are just going to be some down weeks where those teams get beat.

SI

What's the second game again (depends on 2 games)?

Seriously, tho. Aside from injuries in the NFL being the biggest factor, I don't think either of those teams is going to go undefeated aside from that game between the two of them. 15-1 and 16-0 teams don't grow on trees and 14-2 ones aren't all that common. There are just going to be some down weeks where those teams get beat.

SI

The second game would be the AFC title game between the Colts and Pats.

I don't disagree with the sentiment entirely, it's just bizzare to see it wrote so confidently and so soon in the year. There is a LOT of football to be played and it's to early to be picking one team as a lock for the AFC title game, much less two.

What's the second game again (depends on 2 games)?

I think he meant the second game was the AFC Championship Game itself.

Does the Chargers miss Marty this year? Antmeister says, "Hell yes!".

Say what you will, but for those who thought that you can plug in just any coach in here, you are sharing my pain right now. Of all teams, KC should have no business beating San Diego. Good job Norv.

I am telling you, this is another flashback to what happened years ago when the Chargers made a mistake of letting another winning head coach go because of the GM. I guess ownership didn't learn their lesson. And now the cycle will begin again. Players will be refusing to resign here and free agents will not want to play here. Wow!

wow

I am telling you, this is another flashback to what happened years ago when the Chargers made a mistake of letting another winning head coach go because of the GM. I guess ownership didn't learn their lesson. And now the cycle will begin again. Players will be refusing to resign here and free agents will not want to play here. Wow!

Yes, that would be the offensive genius, Kevin Gilbride who wasn't shit.

In other news, Eli Manning opens a fortune telling booth in downtown New York with a sign, "That's why I didn't want to play there."

Yes, that would be the offensive genius, Kevin Gilbride who wasn't shit.

I was thinking Bobby Ross?

In other news, Eli Manning opens a fortune telling booth in downtown New York with a sign, "That's why I didn't want to play there."

He wouldn't have said that last year now we he?

I was thinking Bobby Ross?

She is referring to the person that replaced Bobby Ross.

He wouldn't have said that last year now we he?

Probably considering how they handled the whole Brees situation.

I was thinking Bobby Ross?

After Bobby Ross left the Chargers decided to hire offensive genius Kevin Gilbride thinking he could do better than Ross.. it went quickly downhill from there. I'm fearing the same will happen now.

In other news, Eli Manning opens a fortune telling booth in downtown New York with a sign, "That's why I didn't want to play there."

Even with all the crap going on in San Diego, he would rather face the media in San Diego than New York. He doesn't seem to handle that pressure very well.

She is referring to the person that replaced Bobby Ross.

Oh, you mean the coach that went 6-16 in a season and a half?

Wait a minute, I think we are saying the same thing. I was referring to letting Bobby Ross go.

Oh, you mean the coach that went 6-16 in a season and a half?

LOL....Yeah, that be the guy, but damn, I didn't realize his record was that bad.

That does remind me that Gilbride did leave after 6 games (forgot under what circumstances). Maybe they can do the same with Pox-face.

Wait a minute, I think we are saying the same thing. I was referring to letting Bobby Ross go.

Yes we are.

Kevin Gilbride = Norv Turner.

Yes we are.

Kevin Gilbride = Norv Turner.

And also:
Bobby Ross = Marty S.
Bobby Beathard = AJ Smith
Dean Spanos (bad owner) = Dean Spanos (bad owner)
Angry Antmeister = Angry Antmeister

And also:
Bobby Ross = Marty S.
Bobby Beathard = AJ Smith
Dean Spanos (bad owner) = Dean Spanos (bad owner)
Angry Antmeister = Angry Antmeister

They should fire the GM and beg Marty to come back.

They should fire the GM and beg Marty to come back.

Knowing the Spanos, that will never happen. For some reason, they just have a hard time mediating anything. The tension between the GM and coach should have been squashed early, espeially when things are going well, but they have a history of just letting things fester until it gets to a point where there is no turning back.

If the Chargers were willing to let a coach go that took them to their one and only Super Bowl (Bobby Ross) in the history of the franchise, there is no way they are going to bring Marty back.

Stupidest most moronic move of the decade.


Poor Chargers, doomed to fizzle iinsdtead of bloom.



At 1-3 I feel its time for:



I TOLD YOU SO!

Smith is a fracking moron.

All of the Norv criticism is now officially valid. Burying the guy/team after losses in Green Bay and New England, both still unbeaten, was/is harsh. Losing at home to KC is completely different.

Plus yesterday's debacle cost me a lot of $$$. :(

Smith is a fracking moron.

Battlestar Galactica reference FTW!!!

I enjoyed the series where they had first-and-goal from inside the five and needed a touchdown to keep the game alive. Most coaches would have let the best player in the league touch the ball once or twice there, but Norv's idea of having Rivers throw four incompletions instead was creative and challenged the paradigm.

Not always a fan of his (he can be hit/miss) but this is from Simmons column the other day. A Norv Turner checklist:

Guys arguing on the sidelines? (CHECK)
Embarrassing losses at home? (NO)
QB getting sacked and throwing the ball up for grabs? (CHECK)
Just an ungodly amount of penalties? (NO)
Steady stream of excuses? (CHECK)
Players taking veiled shots at the coaching staff? (CHECK)
General malaise and dissatisfaction within the fan base? (CHECK)
Local columnists taking shots at him? (CHECK)
Big coaching name looming in the background as a replacement? (NO)


Well, the embarrasing loss at home can now be checked off. Penalties are still ok and we haven't heard the big name coach replacing him yet. Keep in mind the checklist was created a few years ago. Norv has hit 7 of the 9 in his first month as the coach of the Chargers.

Really, that's pretty special territory there. Sad thing is, if DJ Williams stays at MLB this week, Tomlinson will fo for 200+ and the Chargers will move to 2-3.

Really, that's pretty special territory there. Sad thing is, if DJ Williams stays at MLB this week, Tomlinson will fo for 200+ and the Chargers will move to 2-3.

is nate webster playing wlb? I know he's small but the guy has the instincts of a mike backer, anyway. dj is not vilma, he needs to run around and make plays instead of challenge blocks and read the line.