As junior/senior right now in college, I'm closing on graduation. I got to thinking after taking a batch of tests, how much do grades make a person? I know for grad school to be a doctor or something along those lines and such, it's important. But what about other fields, and life in general? Just some thoughts I had. Do high school grades matter?

For those who are other, how successful were the "smart and do-everything (by this, class president, student council, involve in all the sports and clubs, ect) when you went back to your reniouns?

From what little I've seen (now two years removed from College Graduation), those people are successful, but moreso because they apply themselves than because they are that much smarter/better than anyone else. While grades are a good indicator of a person's 'worth' from an education standpoint in general, they are definitely not the be-all, end-all.

Most of the guys who got good grades in my college were the guys who realy pushed themselves to study and worked hard at earning their grades. For most of them, this translated into their jobs, and I know that most of them are now well-off, working high-profile IT jobs that require the above specific traits.

I think that grades (when spread out across multiple year levels) reflect not only academic aptitude, and more or less a gauge of a student's drive and willingness to put effort into something. Of course it's not the be all and end all, because there are always other factors that affect grades.

If I were to hire someone, I'd give priority to grades, to certain point, and then rely on the interviews and character references (teachers, former employers). I'd probably go heavier on the interviews, character reference and grades in that order.

I graduated Cum Laude (3.42 GPA) with a B.A. Music from Wright State and I'm now a store manager for Lackluster Video. Fuck grades.

I'm a civil engineer, and graduated 12 years ago.
From my experiences, grades were the most important factor in landing a good job out of college (with passing the EIT a distant second). After about three years (college) grades were pretty much meaningless. Solid work experience was most important.

I've honestly never hired someone just out of school. Most of my hires have been for project management working out of the client's office (I can't afford to have staff billable to a client who is able to witness their learning curve). I look at past experience when deciding who to interview. After interviews my selection is based almost entirely on my sense of an individual's communication skills, work ethic and management capabilities. Grades never enter the equation.

I don't think you can easily categorize "smart and do everything" types, or draw any meaningful conclusion on how that translates into career success. I was very much a "smart and do everything" type in high school, and not at all in college.

I graduated Cum Laude (3.42 GPA) with a B.A. Music from Wright State and I'm now a store manager for Lackluster Video. Fuck grades.

Go make some music. You might make more money :rolleyes:

As junior/senior right now in college, I'm closing on graduation. I got to thinking after taking a batch of tests, how much do grades make a person? I know for grad school to be a doctor or something along those lines and such, it's important. But what about other fields, and life in general? Just some thoughts I had. Do high school grades matter?

For those who are other, how successful were the "smart and do-everything (by this, class president, student council, involve in all the sports and clubs, ect) when you went back to your reniouns?

It depends on your point of view I believe, statistically speaking people with good grades will tend to succeed more frequently in life.

However this is largely I believe down to peoples motivation and determination, if people want to do well then they'll generally be more inclined to try hard on college tests etc. and therefore do well upon them.

Its possible to succeed and be a great success without good grades, but the fact that you weren't sufficiently motivated to get them might be a bad sign that you might not be sufficiently motivated to succeed later in life ... but obviously that isn't always the case ...

(hope that made some sort of sense?)

PS> In case you're wondering I got LOUSY grades at high school ... I simply wasn't at all motivated, it wasn't until I'd worked as a chef for a couple of years that I became sufficiently motivated to go onto university and try and change careers.

It shows dedication to be successful in accomplishing a goal. When I hire I always remember that when you are taking courses in college full time, that is your job. So I view grades as how well someone has done their job.

IMO.. grades are overrated.. especially in college.

In one class, the first day the professor walks in an states 'The head of the department thinks I'm too tough so, everyone in this class will receive an A if you show up. I went to class and took my A...

Opposite situation in another class. I'm carrying a B average into the finals (which counts for like 40% and is open book) and I get a 17/100 on the final. On an open book test. :mad: Why? I rounded to 4 decimal places and the teacher wanted 5.. (He never stated this and throughout the year similar results were acceptable). I was told by him that he was being too easy on students and that my F would stand but, if I took his class the next semester, I wouldn't have to show up and I would receive a B. I signed up for his class the next semester.. never showed up and received a B...

2 classes.. 2 different universities.. bullshit grades.

I graduated Cum Laude (3.42 GPA) with a B.A. Music from Wright State and I'm now a store manager for Lackluster Video. Fuck grades.
LOL

Grades didn't mean shit with me. Thankfully.

How a hiring manager views them I don't know, but if he draws a link between my HS performance and lack of college to my abilities in the work place he'll come to an incorrect conclusion.

I've also known some people who got great grades, but couldn't figure anything out in the real world that wasn't explicitly explained to them or written in a book.

Good grades, bad grades, you can be crappy or good either way.

I got to thinking after taking a batch of tests, how much do grades make a person?
Didn't do so hot, huh? ;)

I don't know how much grades mean, but I graduated from the University of New Orleans with a 3.90 GPA (which is only magna cum laude at UNO, go figure), and I don't think anybody really gives a shit. While the GPA looks impressive on a resume and might get me a better shot at earning an interview, it's not going to determine my potential job performance. I would imagine that hiring managers need to find some way to weed people out, though, and if they can use GPA as one of the criteria, I'm certainly not against that. Then again, my GPA could survive just about anybody's cut. ;)

If anything it might be important to get your foot in the door on your first job, but once you get past that I think its all about your experience and how well you did working.

Grades didn't mean shit with me. Thankfully.
How a hiring manager views them I don't know, but if he draws a link between my HS performance and lack of college to my abilities in the work place he'll come to an incorrect conclusion.

When I'm hiring I tend to view grades as proof that someone can learn if motivated, however its a persons attitude and achievements (especially if its something they've done off their own back in their spare time) which impress me most.

Grades/Qualifacations will help get you an interview at SI - but its your personality, motivation and ability that will determine if you get the job.

(this is one of the reasons why while a fair few people here are graduates we've also got a lot of people who have worked their way up from tester positions or indeed just impressed the heck out of me with software they've written in their own time)

Unfortunately my lack of college is a greater barrier for me than grades when it comes to getting an interview. Just the way it is and something I accept. Of course lack of college has also helped me get further in the field at a younger age ;).

While the GPA looks impressive on a resume and might get me a better shot at earning an interview, it's not going to determine my potential job performance.

Bingo!

High School grades will get you into college. Unless you have a specialized post-grad program that requires them, they won't follow you past that. Even the GPA isn't as important enymore as the well-rounded high school experience. Is a 4.0 GPA from someone who never did anything else as impressive as the 3.8 from the person on the football team, choir, National Honor Society, etc? Not anymore. Your SAT/ACT score is considered more of a litmus test as to your academic potential.

College grades look good on a resume, but the same thing applies. My 3.4 from ASU (enough for cum laude) might not be perfect, but I was on the Speech and Debate team, I wrote for the school paper, I was a DJ on the campus radio station.... There are multiple factors in determining someone's qualifications.

That having been said, you don't want to tank your GPA. While a high GPA may not be as important as you would think, a GPA that is too low can set off warning signals. The negative always hurts worse than the positive can help.

One of the guys in the last interview I had actually asked me what my grades in high school were like. This was for a senior level job, not fresh out of school entry level, I was kind of taken aback. I told him "average", and that was that.

I got the job anyways, I think he just didn't really know what to ask, his field of work was not the same as mine. It still bugged me out a bit when it was asked.

Your SAT/ACT score is considered more of a litmus test as to your academic potential.

My high school grades were generally poor, because I could not be motivated to do all the "busy work" and so often had "homework grades" that were a single digit. Nailing the exams were all that saved me, which carried well into the SAT, where I beat out several other kids I knew that were being bailed out by their "homework grades." My grades probably did not deserve much attention, but schools liked the SAT score (and maybe they looked at the transcript and saw my best grades were the classes I had taken that were beyond the requirements (extra science and history courses)).

Ultimately, the lack of grades prevented me from landing financing and my parents' well was drying up... So, it did bite me in the ass a little bit.

EDIT...On the 'smart kids' who jumped through all the right hoops and did everything they were told bit... The few I know anything about have excellent jobs, but they are research jobs. So, they face the possibility of being axed from the payrolls every couple of years in budget shuffles and so on, or they have to beg for grants to keep working.

For how I work, and how I have been through my entire schooling.

High School to me was boring, It was jumping through the hoops, I was playing football, and as long as I had above a 2.0 GPA, I was going to scholarship to play somewhere. I was superman, and wasn't going to get hurt. I skipped classes, showed up to take the tests and ace them, but attendance was major for the school, so for every unexcused absence, I was taking a grade hit. I countered that with acing all my tests.

Junior year hits, I have an awesome season in Varsity level, and I start getting the calls, University of Oregon, University of Memphis, and interests here locally.

Rolling into senior season, after several camps here, I was rated on of the top DB's in the state....then I blew my knee out. Everyone disappeared. I was a liability at this point in time, and my 2.0 GPA wasn't going to hack it for them.

I graduated, attempted to walk on and a small juco, made it there, but because I had no senior year game film, no scholarship, and my step dad drug his feet, making it so I received no financial aid either...there went my football hopes, and college....until I got married.

This was major, and when I started coaching H.S. football, I stressed grades, and held a higher norm for the team I was on. I was the DC, and you could not play on my defense if you did not maintain a B average, I did not want my kids to suffer like I did, I did not want them to coast through, thinking football was their ticket. I emphasised school first, football second. I have one kid in the NFL I coached, and he is starting, that was after 3 years of coaching...I sent several to college for football...but past that, they didn't go anywhere, so I hope they learned a valuable lesson. I run into some of them sometimes, and they are thankful when I meet them.

I received my associates in Comp Sci and started working...I was in the industry from 98 till 01, and when I finished work for Macromedia in 01, I thought I was fine without the bachelors, I had the experience, I worked for Macromedia for 2 years, Corel for a year 02 - 03, did some contract work for IBM, Adobe, and Trek Bikes.....then the market tanks....and I could not get hired....I had the experience, but people wanted the education...it took me almost a year to get a new job, because I lacked that bachelors degree.

I am back in school getting the bachelors, but the position at the new company I am in, will eliminate that need now, however, I want it for me.

So I guess in a long about way, I truly do not think they are an indicator of success, but they are a need to satisfy the people who tend to think they are, colleges and employers.

Didn't do so hot, huh? ;)

Hehe...Acutally, I think I hit two of the three out of the park. The one I took last night, I did ok, but not as well. I just kinda got thinking about it. I do alright in school (around the 3.0 GPA mark), but it's just something that's hard to be passionate about.

From my experiences, grades were the most important factor in landing a good job out of college (with passing the EIT a distant second). After about three years (college) grades were pretty much meaningless. Solid work experience was most important.


Pretty much my experience as well. For people just out of college, there's not a lot to judge them by so you look at things like grades, etc. For anyone with any reasonable amount of work experience, grades are pretty much meaningless to me.

my employer requires a 2.8 out of 4 for new college hires.

I know people who left school at 16 with minimal and are doing pretty well for themselves. I also know of others with PhDs who are working in Borders on a Saturday afternoon. It depends on the industry you want to work in, as well. I work in publishing, and from what I've seen, good grades don't help half as much as being related to a commissioning editor. That might be a way in which the UK and America are very different, though. I get the impression that nepotism isn't so rampant over there.

My brother did average in college (2.5 GPA), just turned 26, is making near six-figures after a serious of promotions working at his current job. He works at a collections agency. Never was an "academic-type" person (same here), but was always someone who had the work ethic, leadership, and blend of street smarts and book smarts. I think a problem with college, is some of the academic types are top of the class yet they lack the street smarts.

The thing with college, is it's hard to get motivated over it. It's almost boring at times (taking non-major classes), and it's hard to get passionate over the tests and homework. I want to someday launch my own business, something which I love and am passionate about. Maybe it's just something about "doing", rather then "listening"?

I graduated Cum Laude (3.42 GPA) with a B.A. Music from Wright State and I'm now a store manager for Lackluster Video. Fuck grades.

Average nationwide gpa for music majors is ~3.7

You have to normalize for field of study.

Are grades an indicator of success? Yes.

A perfect indicator? No.

Is it because the people learned more then other people? In part.

Is it because they showed they could and would work harder? In part.

Is it because they might just be smarter or more talented anyway? In part.

Do good grades help you get a good job? Possibly, at first.

Does the value of having had good grades drop off rapidly after your first job? Yes.

Average nationwide gpa for music majors is ~3.7

You have to normalize for field of study.

Also keep in mind that a music major who is not collecting unemployment is probably on the strong side of the success curve.

Don't education majors have extremely high GPAs on average?

Don't education majors have extremely high GPAs on average?

They had better. Based on my extended exposure to a(n) M.Ed. curriculum, it's a remarkably simple major. I presume this is so out of pure practicality -- you end up with the demand for too many people as teachers who might not be able to handle an ordinary graduate curriculum, but we decided we want them to have graduate degrees anyway. If we made a M.Ed. as difficult as a traditional M.A. or M.S. in chemistry or history or whatever, we wouldn't have nearly enough teachers with the degrees. So, in keeping with the American way - we lower the standard.

That "I'm not motivated in school thing so I didn't do well is such bullshit." You're right, good grades are not the be all end all especially if the person who gets them is socially inept. But, I come from the school that anything that is worth doing is worth doing well and those are the type of people I want working for me. People who believe that if they commit themselves to a task they are going to put forth their best efforts at whatever they attempt. Those are the type of people who succeed in life, period.

How am I supposed to know that the job I'm hiring you for or the project I'm about to assign you to work on isn't going to inspire you and "bore" you so I get some average half-assed effort just like you put forth in college. Part of getting good grades is playing the game and figuring out what it takes to get them form a different professor. The ability to adapt and figure this out shows flexibility and initaitive. I just hate excuses jusitifying poor performance. "No I really am smarter than my grades showed. .... Really .... because your grades sure don't show it."

That "I'm not motivated in school thing so I didn't do well is such bullshit." You're right, good grades are not the be all end all especially if the person who gets them is socially inept. But, I come from the school that anything that is worth doing is worth doing well and those are the type of people I want working for me. People who believe that if they commit themselves to a task they are going to put forth their best efforts at whatever they attempt. Those are the type of people who succeed in life, period.

How am I supposed to know that the job I'm hiring you for or the project I'm about to assign you to work on isn't going to inspire you and "bore" you so I get some average half-assed effort just like you put forth in college. Part of getting good grades is playing the game and figuring out what it takes to get them form a different professor. The ability to adapt and figure this out shows flexibility and initaitive. I just hate excuses jusitifying poor performance. "No I really am smarter than my grades showed. .... Really .... because your grades sure don't show it."

Werd.

I don't know man. In my case my proffesional field was not represented in the least in high school. If it was, I'd of been a lot more successful. Yes, I have a horrible problem putting in the effort, any effort, and even just staying awake when it comes to topics I'm not interested in. It's the root of any troubles I have.

Stick me in a computer class or working enviroment and it's a different story, I'm engaged, picking things up and helping out those around me, I can carry a full project on my back. You can't always draw parallels from school to the proffesional world. Even after years of doing pretty well in the "real world" I have no doubt I'd fail miserably if I decided to go to college, which is the only reason I stay away(despite the naggings of my superiors).

Very very rarely is a low GPA the product of a low intelligence.

I don't know man. In my case my proffesional field was not represented in the least in high school. If it was, I'd of been a lot more successful. Yes, I have a horrible problem putting in the effort, any effort, and even just staying awake when it comes to topics I'm not interested in. It's the root of any troubles I have.

Stick me in a computer class or working enviroment and it's a different story, I'm engaged, picking things up and helping out those around me, I can carry a full project on my back. You can't always draw parallels from school to the proffesional world. Even after years of doing pretty well in the "real world" I have no doubt I'd fail miserably if I decided to go to college, which is the only reason I stay away(despite the naggings of my superiors).

That's how I am, expect I'm doing well in college (3.0).

Well let me know if you had about a 1.0 in HS and were forced out after you stopped attending classes ;). I'm Mr. GED now.

Very very rarely is a low GPA the product of a low intelligence.

There's very little to convince me of this conclusion. Certainly nothing in your post does so.

If you want to say "it's not always low intelligence that causes a low GPA," I'll be with you -- but very, very, rarely? Nope. That's a pretty tall order.

Are grades an indicator of success? Yes.

A perfect indicator? No.

Is it because the people learned more then other people? In part.

Is it because they showed they could and would work harder? In part.

Is it because they might just be smarter or more talented anyway? In part.

Do good grades help you get a good job? Possibly, at first.

Does the value of having had good grades drop off rapidly after your first job? Yes.
You've summarized my thoughts perfectly, especially with the last sentence. Once you are in the workforce and have gained a bit of experience, good grades don't mean as much as far as future succes goes.

FM

There's very little to convince me of this conclusion. Certainly nothing in your post does so.

If you want to say "it's not always low intelligence that causes a low GPA," I'll be with you -- but very, very, rarely? Nope. That's a pretty tall order.

Intelligence affects the amount of effort needed, nothing more. If you are stupid and put in some heavy and dedicated hours you can pull some nice grades.

That "I'm not motivated in school thing so I didn't do well is such bullshit." You're right, good grades are not the be all end all especially if the person who gets them is socially inept. But, I come from the school that anything that is worth doing is worth doing well and those are the type of people I want working for me. People who believe that if they commit themselves to a task they are going to put forth their best efforts at whatever they attempt. Those are the type of people who succeed in life, period.

How am I supposed to know that the job I'm hiring you for or the project I'm about to assign you to work on isn't going to inspire you and "bore" you so I get some average half-assed effort just like you put forth in college. Part of getting good grades is playing the game and figuring out what it takes to get them form a different professor. The ability to adapt and figure this out shows flexibility and initaitive. I just hate excuses jusitifying poor performance. "No I really am smarter than my grades showed. .... Really .... because your grades sure don't show it."

This about sums it up. If you are smarter than your grades reflect, you were probably lazy. If school bored you so you didn't try hard and get good "homework" grades, you were probably lazy. I don't really give a shit if you can take a test well. Good grades at least show me that you can perform well pursuant to someone elses standards.

At the law firm I worked at, we got unsolicited resumes every week. When we had an opening, we were flooded with resumes. One of the only ways to narrow down the field was to look at grades (class standing.)

At my new job as a cop there were over 300 people applying for 2 positions. Again, grades was one of the only ways to separate all these people who seem the same.

Intelligence affects the amount of effort needed, nothing more. If you are stupid and put in some heavy and dedicated hours you can pull some nice grades.

A professor of mine once described it thusly:

low intelligence, low effort: C
low intelligence, high effort: B
high intelligence, low effort: B
high intelligence, high effort: A

It sounds about right, but I don't buy it completely--A's can still be had with high intelligence, and low effort. But of course, that probably depended on the class.

As far as the original question. Grades don't mean anything without context--some classes grade differently, schools are more competitive than others, workloads (i.e. "strength of schedule") differ, etc. So, I wouldn't even take GPA to be an absolute metric.

In terms of GPA's application to life success, I would tend to agree with QuikSand's post: It's an indicator, but not a perfect one. It is also an indicator that matters less the further you get in life...

I am smart. And lazy. And a damn fine test taker.

Dola - I am also not a cop.

I would imagine that in fields where a degree of technical knowledge or proficiency is required (IT, engineering, chemistry, etc.) grades might have great significance, but I don't know for sure. If you have some kind of Arts degree probably less so, and how well you interview or perform any tests you're given probably counts for more; I work in publishing, and no-one has ever even asked to look at my grades. An advanced degree helps, particularly in those technical fields.

Even if you start at a lower level than you would wish, getting a few years of solid work in your desired field under your belt and some good references will make up for a world of sins in your grades.

I am smart. And lazy. And a damn fine test taker.

Sounds like a triple threat.

I do ok.

A couple years ago I read a book called “Mind of a Millionaire.” The premise of the book was find commonalities between successful people. He picked self made millionaires because he felt that our society rewards success with money. His studies showed that the average college GPA for self made millionaires was 2.9. He did note that in select fields GPA was a stronger indicator, but in most there was no correlation.

It doesn't take a genius to get an A in most classes, so it's really a matter of applying yourself. People who work harder/smarter tend to be more successful than those who don't. Grades, then, should be a reasonably accurate predictor of success in life.

I think grades are worthless. its life experience and application of knowledge to tasks at hand that matter. Grades are subjective becaus an A in one University would probably be a C in another. As for my HS class, the top 2 : one is now a beautician at a salon 4 blocks from my place and the other still lives at home and not going to school. As for me (100/255 in my grad class): Im a 6 year army vet and working my waythrough school in order to get my 2lt Commission.

There's very little to convince me of this conclusion. Certainly nothing in your post does so.

If you want to say "it's not always low intelligence that causes a low GPA," I'll be with you -- but very, very, rarely? Nope. That's a pretty tall order.
I'm so stupid I tried to click on your very, very, rarely.

2.2 in Nuclear Engineering. I'm Homer Simpson.

A couple years ago I read a book called “Mind of a Millionaire.” The premise of the book was find commonalities between successful people. He picked self made millionaires because he felt that our society rewards success with money. His studies showed that the average college GPA for self made millionaires was 2.9. He did note that in select fields GPA was a stronger indicator, but in most there was no correlation.

I think that's my mindset. With college, your working towards a degree; but as long as you stay above a certain GPA and pass every class, you'll get it.

I would think (and hope) that high school grades and college grades are valued very differently. As I mentioned, I graduated from college with a 3.9 GPA. My high school grades? I don't have any. I have a GED. Does anyone care that I have a GED? Not one bit. Since the thread was about college to begin with, I think we're on the right path, but I would suggest that using high school grades to predict professional success would be quite bizarre.

Then again, what do I know? I didn't even go to high school.

I think your GPA depends on your major (as stated previously) and your college of choice. Obviously a 4.3 at the Williamsport Community College is less than a 2.5 at MIT.

True enough. I just have that memory of being asked about them. It had me paranoid about future instances where I'm asked that question again. As if a lack of college wasn't bad enough :).

I am smart. And lazy. And a damn fine test taker.
This is me, except I am terrible at test taking. Going into my junior year at college, when most of my previous grades were mostly based on tests, my GPA was roughly 2.1. My junior and senior years, when most of my grades were a result of programs I had to code, presentations I had to give, etc. etc., I made the Dean's List every semester. When I graduated, my GPA was 2.9.

This is me, except I am terrible at test taking. Going into my junior year at college, when most of my previous grades were mostly based on tests, my GPA was roughly 2.1. My junior and senior years, when most of my grades were a result of programs I had to code, presentations I had to give, etc. etc., I made the Dean's List every semester. When I graduated, my GPA was 2.9.

That's how I am. Test-taking is not a strength of mine, even if I study for hours.

I think that grades make more of a impact at your first job experiences out of school. If you were applying for a job that required say 10 years experience in your field, I believe that grades would only be a very minor factor...

This is me, except I am terrible at test taking. Going into my junior year at college, when most of my previous grades were mostly based on tests, my GPA was roughly 2.1. My junior and senior years, when most of my grades were a result of programs I had to code, presentations I had to give, etc. etc., I made the Dean's List every semester. When I graduated, my GPA was 2.9.
Agreed: Last semester in Nursing School I was averaging 74-76 per test and was in danger of flunking out. In the labs and during our hospital rotations I was the best. Applying all the theories and technical stuffs to the practice.

Funny, most of the people who think grades aren't important are the ones who have bad-to-mediocre ones.

They had better. Based on my extended exposure to a(n) M.Ed. curriculum, it's a remarkably simple major. I presume this is so out of pure practicality -- you end up with the demand for too many people as teachers who might not be able to handle an ordinary graduate curriculum, but we decided we want them to have graduate degrees anyway. If we made a M.Ed. as difficult as a traditional M.A. or M.S. in chemistry or history or whatever, we wouldn't have nearly enough teachers with the degrees. So, in keeping with the American way - we lower the standard.Up until a couple years ago here at UMass, students who were failing out transferred into education because it used a completely different grading system and they were effectively given a clean slate.

As for grades in general, they matter in the hard sciences like engineering where they grade on practical knowledge, but in every other subject they're replacing grading based on testing with grading based on busywork and feel-good if you work your hardest that's good enough for an A bullshit. In my intro Stats course last semester I got a 100, 92 and 98 on the three tests and got a C because I never went to class or did any of the homework. I'll probably be able to get that changed on appeal, but things like that make me question whether GPA's have even the little relevance I thought they had in the real world.

Funny, most of the people who think grades aren't important are the ones who have bad-to-mediocre ones.

And vice versa. To be expected, doesn't really mean anything.

Funny, most of the people who think grades aren't important are the ones who have bad-to-mediocre ones.The real question is whether they decided they weren't important and decided not to pursue them, or whether they got bad grades and then convinced themselves they didn't matter. Probably falls in the middle.

I had never really thought about whether they mattered until this topic. Going back on what I've experienced since I entered the world of work, they didn't matter in the least.

But I'm sure there are plenty of managers who toss resumes while thinning out the herd in a mountain of resumes.

I'm so stupid I tried to click on your very, very, rarely.

2.2 in Nuclear Engineering. I'm Homer Simpson.

Did you go to Springfield A&M or Springfield University? :D

I also know of others with PhDs who are working in Borders on a Saturday afternoon.

Once upon a time, I took a job at Waldenbooks. The manager there, who was a bitch that ruled with a iron fist, had a Masters in Anthropology.

This about sums it up. If you are smarter than your grades reflect, you were probably lazy. If school bored you so you didn't try hard and get good "homework" grades, you were probably lazy. I don't really give a shit if you can take a test well. Good grades at least show me that you can perform well pursuant to someone elses standards.

Bullshit. Does that really carry any weight once they have job experience?

I can buy the idea that, to some degree, college grades can be considered an indicator for future success. I don't believe that high school grades tell the same kind of story.

A couple years ago I read a book called “Mind of a Millionaire.” The premise of the book was find commonalities between successful people. He picked self made millionaires because he felt that our society rewards success with money. His studies showed that the average college GPA for self made millionaires was 2.9. He did note that in select fields GPA was a stronger indicator, but in most there was no correlation.

There are successful entrepreneurs without highschool diplomas, just like there are some with PhDs. It runs the entire spectrum. When it comes to that, it is about accomplishing something, rather than what you have hanging on the wall.

GPAs and such become more important when you want to work in a structured "mature" corporation/bureaucracy where the bells and whistles are important to get in the door (unless you are dealing with math/science based work, which can be quite different). They are used to weed out people when you don't want to interview all the candidates, or the initial screeners have no real concept of what qualities you are looking for. This is based on my own work experience and the trouble we go through to hire for our team. We usually end up hiring someone from the Recruitment Specialist's discard pile, because we are looking for something a bit different than the rest of the corporation.

Funny, most of the people who think grades aren't important are the ones who have bad-to-mediocre ones.

Actually I had 3.8 (damn English classes) and I think after your first couple years they are meaningless.

Thinking a little more about this, most people after they've been in a field for a while (say 10+ years) they don't list their college grades in any of the fields I hire. I'd probably be a little suspicious to see a resume with someone who has 10+ years experience and is still pimping their college grades. It would make me think they haven't accomplished anything since then.

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Originally Posted by judicial clerk
This about sums it up. If you are smarter than your grades reflect, you were probably lazy. If school bored you so you didn't try hard and get good "homework" grades, you were probably lazy. I don't really give a shit if you can take a test well. Good grades at least show me that you can perform well pursuant to someone elses standards.



Bullshit. Does that really carry any weight once they have job experience?

I can buy the idea that, to some degree, college grades can be considered an indicator for future success. I don't believe that high school grades tell the same kind of story.
[QUOTE]

I really don't think this is bullshit. I think you can judge a person's work ethic by how well they perform the tasks they don't like. Everybody will put effort into the areas of the job that they have a passion for, but someone with a great work ethic will put effort into all areas of work because they refuse to do anything half-assed. Its kind of like a halfback who works hard at picking up the blitz or a receiver who runs a route 100% even though the play is a screen to the other side.

I agree that the more job experience a person has, the less grades matter and grades quickly become irrelevant to most employers. I think that grades really matter in getting that first job, except for top law firms and maybe other jobs like that. In my experience, more often than not they want to see your grades and know that you graduated in the top 10% of your class, regardless of your experience. I've even seen it written in their job ads.

Funny, most of the people who think grades aren't important are the ones who have bad-to-mediocre ones.

Sure, my grades would have been relevant if I had wanted to go to med school, or some graduate programs. But in my current job - in which I make a healthy enough income - do my grades from college matter? Not a lick.