Sparked by the "All Hail the King" thread, I began to putz around Baseballreference.com to look at some statistics from the '80s. I began thinking about some of my favorite players and teams from the time.

One of my favorite players from that era was Randy Milligan. I know as a minor leaguer, he had the unfortunate label of being the 2nd coming of every great slugger in baseball history (which he obviously never lived up to). However, I remember liking him as an Oriole fan because the guy hit with occasional power - but he was always willing to take a walk. I look at his statistics now, and I wonder whether his career was just an unfortunate example of being in the right place at the wrong time. Mind you, he wasn't a particularly good fielder, and you would usually want someone with more power at the first base position. But, was Randy really as much of a bust as the naysayers would have you believe, especially when taken in the context of today where OBP is "finally" valued?


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1987 25 NYM (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/NYM/1987.shtml) NL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/NL_1987.shtml) 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 .000 .500 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0
1988 26 PIT (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/PIT/1988.shtml) NL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/NL_1988.shtml) 40 82 10 18 5 0 3 8 1 2 20 24 .220 .379 .390 32 0 0 0 1 2
1989 27 BAL (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/BAL/1989.shtml) AL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/AL_1989.shtml) 124 365 56 98 23 5 12 45 9 5 74 75 .268 .394 .458 167 0 2 2 3 12
1990 28 BAL (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/BAL/1990.shtml) AL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/AL_1990.shtml) 109 362 64 96 20 1 20 60 6 3 88 68 .265 .408 .492 178 0 4 3 2 11
1991 29 BAL (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/BAL/1991.shtml) AL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/AL_1991.shtml) 141 483 57 127 17 2 16 70 0 5 84 108 .263 .373 .406 196 0 2 4 2 23
1992 30 BAL (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/BAL/1992.shtml) AL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/AL_1992.shtml) 137 462 71 111 21 1 11 53 0 1 106 81 .240 .383 .361 167 0 5 0 4 15
1993 31 CIN (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/CIN/1993.shtml) NL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/NL_1993.shtml) 83 234 30 64 11 1 6 29 0 2 46 49 .274 .394 .406 95 0 1 0 1 3
CLE (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/CLE/1993.shtml) AL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/AL_1993.shtml) 19 47 7 20 7 0 0 7 0 0 14 4 .426 .557 .574 27 0 0 0 0 0
TOT 102 281 37 84 18 1 6 36 0 2 60 53 .299 .423 .434 122 0 1 0 1 3
1994 32 MON (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/MON/1994.shtml) NL (http://www.baseballreference.com/leagues/NL_1994.shtml) 47 82 10 19 2 0 2 12 0 0 14 21 .232 .337 .329 27 0 2 1 0 1
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
8 Seasons 703 2118 305 553 106 10 70 284 16 18 447 431 .261 .391 .420 889 0 16 10 13 67


Yes, he didn't live up to his Triple Crown predictions, but he wasn't a bad ballplayer.

dola - bah, damn formatting!

It's an interesting question. I'm sure there were plenty like Milligan who had bad BA and great OBP and would have been far more valued today then back then.

A guy who was appreciated (because of the pop in his bat) but would probably be even moreso today is Ken Singleton (another 100 walk a year guy, when it was much less glamorous).

The same can be said for the extreme overvalue of that day as well. Tops in that category for me was all-star Ellis Valentine. His 1979 season he hit .276 with 21 HRs and also walked a grand total of 22 times in 548 atbats (for a sparkling .303 OBP). Of course, at the time, they probably marveled at his "aggressiveness" at the plate :).

Here go down memory lane with Topps All Star Rookies!

http://www.geocities.com/nyjeterfan/trophylist.html

That will give you some fun to check the players out on baseball reference.

Ok, Who is considered the biggest baseball bust ever?

Ok, Who is considered the biggest baseball bust ever?Morganna. Hands down.

Ok, Who is considered the biggest baseball bust ever?

Brien Taylor

In one of the yearly Baseball Abstracts in the 1980s, Bill James went on a rant about players who would be amazing producers if only given the chance to play. Chief among them was a guy by the name of <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/phelpke01.shtml">Ken Phelps</a>. I just looked over his stats, and teams today would give their eye teeth to have a guy like him. Instead, he only had a few seasons where he got 300 ABs, but still hit 25 HRs and drew 80 BBs in limited time. Teams today would embrace a .240/.400/.520 kind of guy. Back then, they couldn't look past the first number.

In one of the yearly Baseball Abstracts in the 1980s, Bill James went on a rant about players who would be amazing producers if only given the chance to play. Chief among them was a guy by the name of <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/phelpke01.shtml">Ken Phelps</a>. I just looked over his stats, and teams today would give their eye teeth to have a guy like him. Instead, he only had a few seasons where he got 300 ABs, but still hit 25 HRs and drew 80 BBs in limited time. Teams today would embrace a .240/.400/.520 kind of guy. Back then, they couldn't look past the first number.

He was one of my favorite players (probably the dorky glasses he wore). The knock on him was that he couldn't hit lefties or play defense. Hence, he didn't play every day.

The same can be said for the extreme overvalue of that day as well. Tops in that category for me was all-star Ellis Valentine. His 1979 season he hit .276 with 21 HRs and also walked a grand total of 22 times in 548 atbats (for a sparkling .303 OBP). Of course, at the time, they probably marveled at his "aggressiveness" at the plate :).

They marveled even more about the gun he had for an arm.

I remember the Braves had a fine young outfielder named Brad Komminsk, who was supposed to be the next Dale Murphy. Of course, you could always name a number of Yankee "prospects" of the early 90's - Hensley Meulens, Oscar Azocar, Kevin Maas, etc.

They marveled even more about the gun he had for an arm.
Well, you learn something new every day :)

He was one of my favorite players (probably the dorky glasses he wore). The knock on him was that he couldn't hit lefties or play defense. Hence, he didn't play every day.

Yep. This was around the same era that the M's were giving Edgar Martinez token looks at the MLB level and letting him waste 2+ years in AAA - they simply didn't know how to properly evaluate their own players. Of course, part of Phelps problem was he was Wally Pipp'd by Alvin Davis - Phelps started '84 as the M's starting 1B, got hurt early on and watched call-up Davis hit his way to the AL Rookie of the Year award.

I have a love/hate relationship with Phelps - I always thought he should've gotten more playing time (being an early devotee to Bill James, I recognized right away that his high OBP and SLG needed to be in the lineup) but at least he netted us Jay Buhner; on the other hand, Phelps broke up Brian Holman's bid for a perfect game with 1 out to go by hitting a HR when he played for the A's. Fucker.

Ok, Who is considered the biggest baseball bust ever?Todd Van Poppel

That pitcher the Jays got in a trade for David Cone. I forgot his name.. could've been Marty Janzen or whatever? Probably not the biggest bust ever, but as a big Jays fan at the time, I loved Cone... seeing him go for THAT was horrible.

Eric Anthony

Phil Nevin (if he hadn't started doing 'roids with Cammo in SD, that is)

Edit: Nevermind on Anthony. He was always talked up by the Astros for some reason, but it turns out he was a freakin' 34th round pick, for god's sake...

Double edit: This post is who I think are the Astros biggest busts in my memory.

Todd Van Poppel

At least he had a couple of okay seasons--unlike Brien Taylor.

At least he had a couple of okay seasons--unlike Brien Taylor.A couple of okay seasons does not equate to the green yours truly dropped on his Gold Leaf Rookie card back in the day. :mad:

Van Poppel just generally sucking, and never developing into a quality pitcher like he should have been is more "bust like" than Taylor who got hurt, and quickly ended his career.

Just for kicks sake, in 1986 the Pirates were the worst team in Baseball, but drafted 2nd due to the year by year alternating first pick. The Mariners draft Ken Griffey JR, the Pirates draft Mark Merchant. Now surely Merchant was a bust, but he also was a "never was," not hyped on a major scale. Imagine, tho, for a second, if the Pirates got Ken Griffey Jr, and added him to their stable of talent in the early 90's.

Darren Driefort, but he's been an inuury prone waste of talent more then anything...

I'd like to think Wilton Guerrero is too....Bastard M's took A-Rod instead of LA

Paul Wilson? Bill Pulsipher?

Paul Wilson? Bill Pulsipher?
Dallas Green.

Matt Nokes!

Gary Scott--great glove, but just couldn't hit.

Josh Hamilton

Danny Goodwin (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/goodwda01.shtml) has to be a candidate for biggest bust of all time. Twice the No. 1 overall draft pick (1971 and 1975), and had a total of 636 career at-bats, .236 career BA, .301 OBP, and .373 SLG.

Morganna. Hands down.

Ding!

And I'd have wanted my hands up if I ran into Morganna...

Ding!

And I'd have wanted my hands up if I ran into Morganna...

She's got nothing on Cecil Fielder or Terry Forster.

Brien Taylor

For some reason, this is the only baseball number one pick that I remember.

Brien Taylor, former New York Yankees prospect, facing 40 years in jail - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8578811/brien-taylor-former-new-york-yankees-prospect-facing-40-years-jail)

Brien Taylor facing up to 40 years
By Willie Weinbaum
Special to ESPN.com

Far from the bright lights of the ballpark in the Bronx, rules prohibit cameras and other recording devices where the future of a former "can't-miss" pitcher is to be determined next Wednesday. Half a life after the pinnacle of his baseball career, Brien Taylor's sentencing is on the docket for a New Bern, N.C., courtroom.

A left-hander with an explosive fastball and potent curve, Taylor was the first pick in the 1991 amateur draft by the New York Yankees, received a then-record $1.55 million signing bonus negotiated by super-agent Scott Boras and seemed destined to follow in the footsteps of his new team's southpaw legends Whitey Ford and Lefty Gomez. Once touted by Baseball America as the sport's top prospect, Taylor never reached Triple-A.

A left-hander with an explosive fastball and potent curve, Taylor was the first pick in the 1991 amateur draft by the New York Yankees, received a then-record $1.55 million signing bonus negotiated by super-agent Scott Boras and seemed destined to follow in the footsteps of his new team's southpaw legends Whitey Ford and Lefty Gomez.

His fate is now with U.S. District Judge Louise Flanagan, who can sentence Taylor from five to 40 years after he pleaded guilty in August to distributing more than 28 grams of crack cocaine, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office of the Eastern District of North Carolina. The federal public defender's office, which represents the 40-year-old Taylor, declined comment other than to confirm that the matter is scheduled for Wednesday.

Taylor was indicted June 5 by a federal grand jury on three charges of crack cocaine distribution, superseding North Carolina state charges for trafficking. At the time of Taylor's March 1 arrest, the Carteret County Sheriff's Office said its undercover narcotic detectives and those of the Morehead City Police Department had purchased "a large quantity of cocaine and crack cocaine" from Taylor over several months. The Beaufort, N.C., native and former pride of East Carteret High School has been incarcerated for the eight months since his arrest.

In his first two seasons after New York drafted him, Taylor started 54 games, striking out more than a hitter an inning for the Yankees' A and Double-A teams, while allowing a walk about every two innings. Then, in the offseason of 1993 the story goes, Taylor threw a punch during a fight involving his brother and the family of his brother's girlfriend. The punch failed to strike anybody, but Taylor caused serious injury to his pitching arm -- a dislocated shoulder and torn labrum, necessitating major surgery and more than a year away from action.

Renowned surgeon Frank Jobe reportedly described it as one of the worst injuries he'd ever seen.

When Taylor returned, longtime Yankees pitching instructor Billy Connors worked with him.

"He was struggling," Connors said by phone this week. "He had outstanding stuff, but he got wild and couldn't throw strikes."

Connors also says the 6-foot-3 Taylor seemingly lost his agility and ability to run well, field or bunt, although he had been a swift and gifted athlete, beyond his golden arm.

Over the next four seasons in the minor leagues, Taylor never appeared in more than 13 games and he walked more than double the number of men he struck out.

"He was unbelievable when he signed," Connors said. "But when he came back, he wasn't the same -- he worked like hell at it, but he just couldn't come back.

"His attitude was always great, he was a great kid and everybody loved him."

The Yankees released Taylor after the 1998 season and his attempt to come back two years later with a Cleveland Indians affiliate failed to produce better results. At age 28, Taylor was through.

With his signing bonus, Taylor built a home for his parents on tiny Beaufort's Brien Taylor Lane. And the man for whom the road is named came to live in the house, too. A father of five daughters, Taylor has held several jobs, but he's also had occasional legal troubles in the dozen years since his pitching days ended.

Rarely one to speak with the media since leaving baseball, Taylor has yet to respond to an ESPN interview request through his attorney.

Of his former pupil's bleak prospects two decades after his future seemed so promising, Connors said succinctly, "It's a terrible thing."

The Josh Hamilton response is funny now.

Bob Hamelin?

Nice bit of thread necromancy. I'd throw out Ruben Mateo as one of the big busts. Was projected to be a 5 tool superstar, but flamed out pretty quick after breaking his leg his rookie season.

Anna (don't call be Kris) Benson?

But in all seriousness, I think Matt Bush has to rank right up there, no?

Jeffery Hammonds.

Supposed to be Barry Bonds 2.0, turned out to be Barry Manilow with a tan and a bat.

Josh Hamilton

This is funny now.

fernando martinez- who omar minaya refused to give up in a deal for roy halladay. recently claimed off waivers by the astros

Jeffery Hammonds.

Supposed to be Barry Bonds 2.0, turned out to be Barry Manilow with a tan and a bat.

He was coming into the league at a time when I was big time into baseball. I wanted him to be good so bad. My uncle always said he was going to be a bust.

He was coming into the league at a time when I was big time into baseball. I wanted him to be good so bad. My uncle always said he was going to be a bust.

I always felt that if he had actually panned out, the Orioles would have won a WS in the mid-late 90's.

The Josh Hamilton response is funny now.

This is funny now.

There are a number of Ranger fans who would probably still agree with the initial statement.

A couple of okay seasons does not equate to the green yours truly dropped on his Gold Leaf Rookie card back in the day. :mad:

LOL...I can relate to this as I was collecting cards around that time but actually was lucky enough to get a couple of his rookie cards in a few random packs.

Errr..."lucky" might not be the right world.

There are a number of Ranger fans who would probably still agree with the initial statement.

I would question their intelligence in baseball if they did...

In the busts, or were they genre, how about Ben McDonald?

In terms of sheer hype from when I was really into baseball: Shawn Abner.

Can't argue with Brien Taylor, either, though at the time plenty of people warned that anything can happen to a pitcher - especially when one who doesn't know how to fight tries to get into a fight (sorry, Dave Rozema).

Shawn Abner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Abner)
He currently works for a beer distributor in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. He is married and has two sons, one being a very successful professional Call of Duty player who is on Team OpTic known as "King Scump".

Getting your own wikipedia entry is a solid achievement in life, but having it end with the term "King Scump" tarnishes it a bit.

LOL...I can relate to this as I was collecting cards around that time but actually was lucky enough to get a couple of his rookie cards in a few random packs.

Errr..."lucky" might not be the right world.

It's funny how a lot of the guys mentioned in this thread had high profile baseball rookie cards during the baseball card boom of the late 80s/early 90s before they had done a thing in MLB, that has to be the only reason so many people remember their names. I remember the local card shop in my town had a deal where if you bought a pack of 1988 DonRuss or whatever it was, they'd offer to immediately buy back any Greg Jefferies rookie for $5 or $10 or $20, I can't remember. I was like, "no way man, that card's going to make me rich someday".

In the busts, or were they genre, how about Ben McDonald?

I don't know whether I should be happy or sad that 75% of the players listed in this thread were drafted by the Orioles...

Andy Marte was a big name there for a few years.

As an Oriole fan I'll pile on - Adam Loewen. Oh, and soon-to-be Ex-Oriole Billy Rowell. Yeah, he he was the guy drafted right before Tim Lincecum.

dola

Matt Hobgood

Steve Chilcott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Chilcott) gets my vote. His pick was even worse than Taylor's. The Mets took him even though everyone knew that Reggie Jackson was the best player. Supposedly, they passed on Jackson because of his "white" girlfriend. It was his fiance who was hispanic.

That pitcher the Jays got in a trade for David Cone. I forgot his name.. could've been Marty Janzen or whatever? Probably not the biggest bust ever, but as a big Jays fan at the time, I loved Cone... seeing him go for THAT was horrible.

Oh God, don't remind me of that deal. I just never understood the penchant for dealing guys to the f-ing Yankees for shit. I was happy when we got Cone-y back in 2005 for that ill-fated run that never materialized, but couldn't believe they'd deal him to the division rival like that.

It's funny how a lot of the guys mentioned in this thread had high profile baseball rookie cards during the baseball card boom of the late 80s/early 90s before they had done a thing in MLB, that has to be the only reason so many people remember their names. I remember the local card shop in my town had a deal where if you bought a pack of 1988 DonRuss or whatever it was, they'd offer to immediately buy back any Greg Jefferies rookie for $5 or $10 or $20, I can't remember. I was like, "no way man, that card's going to make me rich someday".

I'm an A's fan so getting a TVP rookie card was double the pleasure for me. :D

How about a two sport buster...Drew Henson?

I'm going to go with Gregg Jefferies. He was a much better player than he ever got credit for but he was never as good as he was supposed to be.

I think I've shared this story here before. My freshman year at UT was in 1990. Todd Van Poppel had committed to the University of Texas, but ended up signing with the A's for a $500,000 signing bonus. For one of my classes, the teacher on the first day did roll call, and called out for 'Todd Van Poppel'. We told her he more than likely wasn't going to show up, considering he just was handed half a million bucks. She said, well, until I hear otherwise, he is getting a zero. :D

Lol

In Spring Training of 1965 Casey Stengel said, "There's Ed Kranepool, 20 years old. In ten years he's got a chance to be a star... And there's Greg Goosen... he's 20, too... In ten years he's got a chance to be 30."

He did have a great APBA card for the 1969 expansion Pilots and I played him at C for a full season.