All is said :-)

http://www.nfl.com

As a Jets fan:

Kevin Mawae likely is coasting in on his resume. He's definitely had a down year. So either he's still that elite, or the centers have sucked for the rest of the AFC this year.

Shaun Ellis is a solid selection. He probably benefited a lot from the early-season emphasis, but you can't really argue his inclusion. I'm happy for him.

One more thought:
When Tomlinson and Ricky Williams can't crack the lineup, yet you see nothing wrong with it, you realize the AFC is loaded at running back.

Matt Hasselbeck, snubbed, in favor of Favre. It's an injustice. It's ludicrous. It's absurd. It's..........Oh yeah, it's just the pro bowl.

I'm actually suprised at how many Packer fanboys (and girls) figured out how to use a naked lady machine to cast their Favre vote. Yeah, he's gonna be a HOF'er, and he should be, but pro bowl with 20 int's? Come on................

How the hell did Shockey make the Pro Bowl? He did nothing this year. I mean was there no one who had better numbers than him this year?

C Brad Meester was robbed. He was so good this year and Mawae made it on like reputation. A lot of pundits thought Meester should have been the starting C and he's not even making it.

-Anxiety

Boldin made it as the only rookie that I see.

Originally posted by Wasabiak
Matt Hasselbeck, snubbed, in favor of Favre. It's an injustice. It's ludicrous. It's absurd. It's..........Oh yeah, it's just the pro bowl.

I'm actually suprised at how many Packer fanboys (and girls) figured out how to use a naked lady machine to cast their Favre vote. Yeah, he's gonna be a HOF'er, and he should be, but pro bowl with 20 int's? Come on................

Uhh, he does lead the conference in completion % and TDs, and is 4th in QB rating. I agree that Hasselbeck should be in, but it should be in place of McNabb.

Originally posted by cthomer5000
When Tomlinson and Ricky Williams can't crack the lineup, yet you see nothing wrong with it, you realize the AFC is loaded at running back.

Holy crap. Tomlinson especially surprised me, but like you said, hard to argue with Priest, Jamal, and Clinton.

As a Chargers fan who has watched(i dont know how) every game this season, LT deserves to be there. He has been limited so much by his team and is truly a complete player. He already has over 2000 total yards which is more than the three made it. Tomlinson also has fewer carries than Portis, Lewis and Holmes. I just hope he gets in if someone gets hurt because he deserves to be recognized for what he is doing on a 3-11 team.

It doesn't really matter, though, as the pro bowl is the worst all star game out of the major 4 sports imho.

-yacovfb

Originally posted by yacovfb
As a Chargers fan who has watched(i dont know how) every game this season, LT deserves to be there. He has been limited so much by his team and is truly a complete player. He already has over 2000 total yards which is more than the three made it. Tomlinson also has fewer carries than Portis, Lewis and Holmes. I just hope he gets in if someone gets hurt because he deserves to be recognized for what he is doing on a 3-11 team.

It doesn't really matter, though, as the pro bowl is the worst all star game out of the major 4 sports imho.

-yacovfb

I agree he's having an amazing year... but you can't say the other 3 guys aren't deserving. The AFC is just insanely deep at RB. I'm sure he'll end up making the trip due to someones injury (Portis?).

Originally posted by General Mike
How the hell did Shockey make the Pro Bowl? He did nothing this year. I mean was there no one who had better numbers than him this year?

That was my initial reaction... (except the "he did nothing this year" part. :) )

*moments later*

I just looked up the stats. Shockey played for 9 games, and he's still 2nd in Tight Ends for receptions (1st is Freddie Jones with 3 more than Shockey, and he's played 5 more games than Shockey)

Shockey still leads NFC tight ends in receiving yards (by 16 over Crumpler)

New England only has 2 players, Richard Seymour and Ty Law.

I think Rodney Harrison should have made it, but other than that I can't really see anything wrong. It is interesting and a testament to Belichick's great job of putting players into their roles that one of the two best teams in the AFC (solely on record) only has 2 players. Contrast that too Kansas City's 8.

I was disspointed Shannon Sharpe didn't make it, but I can't argue with Heap or Gonzales.

Tomlinson getting left out is a toughie. Still, while he had fewer carries than Portis, Holmes or Lewis, his yards per carry only outdid Holmes. It's a tough one, he clearly deserved to be there. Thing is, if we take any of the other three out, we'll be saying the same thing.

The conference is just loaded there.

Also, LT is by far the best player left off the squad. Not that the others aren't deserving, but if San Diego had a .500+ record, we'd be talking about him for MVP.

Originally posted by BishopMVP
Also, LT is by far the best player left off the squad. Not that the others aren't deserving, but if San Diego had a .500+ record, we'd be talking about him for MVP.

Pro Bowl != MVP

I can see Brady getting consideration for MVP as well (not saying he'd be my choice, but I can see it). But he's not a Pro Bowler.

if that makes sense.

Fred Beasley finaly got in as a FB. Alstott (the biggest and slowest HB in the league) has been getting in as the FB since Beas' came into the league. Bout time he gets the nod, too bad it had to come at Alstott's expense via an injury.

2 thoughts.

- Tomlinson not in the Pro Bowl
He should have made it but the AFC's indeed very loaded at this position and he propobably "pays" -in some ways- for his team's pitiful record.

- Schockey in the Pro Bowl this year ???
That's bad. Nothing against the guy, he's dominating TE but I don't see how you can put a guy in the Pro Bowl when he plays just half of the season. No matter what the numbers are.
Some folks work their butts off 16 games and he's out after 9.
That should be automatic disqualifier.

- Favre in the Prow bowl
Well, I'm still not sold 100% on Hasselbeck and it's hard to argue against Favre. He has brought his team back in the hunt for their Division championship and they have as good a shot as anyone to make the Playoffs.
Sure, this is Ahman Green's team now (much like the Broncos were Terrell Davis' team in the late '90s) but he's the glue that sticks everything together. Sideline Favre, and the Packers will lose.

I'm very disappointed for Sharpe. He has comparable numbers to Gonzo and much better than Heap...

Rank Player Team G Rec Yds Yds/G Avg TDs
1 Tony Gonzalez KAN 14 60 797 56.9 13.3 10
2 Shannon Sharpe DEN 14 60 740 52.9 12.3 8
4 Todd Heap BAL 14 55 678 48.4 12.3 3

That table doesn't look too good, but I hope you get the picture.

Dola -

and in case you were wondering, the missing #3 that I took out was Shockey. So maybe he does deserve his trip to Hawaii..

I know I'm a homer, but if you want a good story in this pro bowl, look no farther than big Willie Anderson. He's labored in obscurity here in Cincinnati for eight years. I honestly believe he's been one of the best RT's in the league during his career, but when your team is that bad, nobody notices offensive linemen. But during that same time, Corey Dillon was racking up thousand yard seasons, much of it behind Willie. I'm extremely happy for him.

In other Bengals pro-bowl news, Chad Johnson said he would like to fly out the entire Bengals offense and offensive coaches because he's there because of them. The catcher? He said he'd only do it if the money was there after his fines.

Originally posted by BishopMVP
New England only has 2 players, Richard Seymour and Ty Law.

I think Rodney Harrison should have made it, but other than that I can't really see anything wrong. It is interesting and a testament to Belichick's great job of putting players into their roles that one of the two best teams in the AFC (solely on record) only has 2 players. Contrast that too Kansas City's 8.

Rodney Harrison was a suprise to me. I thought he was having an outstanding year.


Otherwise, all I can say is for my Falcons.. I am glad Algee made it.. otherwise what a miserable season this has been...

shame not to see moss (the jets one!) get in.. but never mind we already got 2 players in, can't be greedy :D

Larry Allen being in is a complete joke. It took him 9 games before he could finish one.

All the other Cowboys are deserving, Glover, Flozell and Roy. My only other nod might be to Richie Anderson at fullback as he leads the team in receptions.

LT got robbed but I am a homer for him.

Edit: Dat Nguyen has had a great year also.

Originally posted by General Mike
How the hell did Shockey make the Pro Bowl? He did nothing this year. I mean was there no one who had better numbers than him this year?

In the NFC, frankly, no.

Originally posted by Samdari
In the NFC, frankly, no.

Frank, Ty...

I wouldn't worry about who got "snubbed." By the time February rolls around, injuries and apathy will provide spots for all of those who are even remotely deserving of a spot.

Good to see Bly make it. First thing Millen's done right it seems. Well, maybe some picks (Bailey, Rogers (both), Harrington, Holt, etc.) may pan out.

It's too bad that in my FOF2004 career Bly was just a really suck-ass cornerback who took up a LOT of cap room. Good to see reality has treated him and the Lions better.

Originally posted by Darkiller
- Schockey in the Pro Bowl this year ???
That's bad. Nothing against the guy, he's dominating TE but I don't see how you can put a guy in the Pro Bowl when he plays just half of the season. No matter what the numbers are.
Some folks work their butts off 16 games and he's out after 9.
That should be automatic disqualifier.


First of all, if he were a 49er you wouldn't be complaining.

Can't you make the opposite argument?

"He only played 9 games, and still leads all tight ends in stats!"

The guy is a dominating force in a game. The fact that no other NFC tight ends couldn't match his numbers while playing a few more games speaks to that.

He's lucky the NFC is weak at TE, but you can't say he doesn't deserve it. He's an asshole, but he's a trule elite tight end.

I don't agree with that.

It has nothing to do with him not being a 49er. This is silly. I'm talking about "the Game".
Pro Bowl is not a stat-only recognition. It's about a year long of football where you deal with 16 games of adversity, where you go throuh so many different phases and where you have to be the best at your position during that whole time.

Here's an example
How many QBs have ratings > 100 after 4-5 games ? a huge load.
How many will have the same ratings at year's end ? not much.
of, how many QBs are "on their way to a 5000 yard season if he keeps up the pace" after 4-6 games ???

For instance, in 1991, his first year as a starter, Steve Young led the league in Passing (only QB >100) and he didn't make the Pro Bowl because the voters said "he started in only 10 games" (injured the rest of the way). OK I can hear that very well. And he's a QB.

now you have a TE, and I DID SAY HE WAS A DOMINANT ONE in the NFL, in my previous post, who plays in 9 fucking games (56% of the season) and he is selected among all 16 NFC Tight-Ends to represent them in the Pro Bowl ?!?!

What the ??? are you nuts ? Am I being "a 49er whiner" because I defend the fact that you have to play A SEASON OF FOOTBALL (contrary to a season of media alerts so get noticed) to be derserving ???

I agree with Darkiller here. Granted the voting does start a little too early in the season for my taste, but as far as I know it's always been like that. However for somebody to play half a season of football, and get selected over somebody else who probably worked his butt off throughout the offseason and regular season to both stay healthy and put up good numbers is a shame.

*edit* Just a thought. Tell me, if this were say <i>Wesely Walls</i>, do you honestly believe he would have been selected to the Pro Bowl if he only played half a season?

Does it really f'ing matter if players make this stupid game or not? The only thing being a pro bowler does is increase the salary demands of a player, thus leading to that player making more money on another team eventually. So if my favorite team won games and won championships, and didn't send another player to the pro bowl from here to eternity, i wouldn't give a rat's ass.

Think about it.

edit--oh yeah, i forgot about the Nike and Campbell's deals.

I either think that fans should NOT have a vote (seriously, what do 90% of fans know about O Lineman?) or they should have their vote weighted less.

Maybe add a sportswriters vote to go with the other three, thus adding an additional expert opinion.

It might get people like Brad Meester in and players on pure reputation like Ruben Brown and Kevin Mawae out. How many years ago was it that Dermonti Dowan made it in despite being out for the season? Three, four years ago?

The general fan population are idiots and we alwaus have to hope that the players and coaches can balance them out.

-Anxiety

Originally posted by Wasabiak
Does it really f'ing matter if players make this stupid game or not? The only thing being a pro bowler does is increase the salary demands of a player, thus leading to that player making more money on another team eventually. So if my favorite team won games and won championships, and didn't send another player to the pro bowl from here to eternity, i wouldn't give a rat's ass.

Think about it.

edit--oh yeah, i forgot about the Nike and Campbell's deals.


Some players have contract clauses that kick in when they go to the pro-bowl. So, if you signed a contract that stated that you made 1 million this year with another 1 mill bonus if you make the pro-bowl, then it very much matters. Imagine if you played your pants off and had a career year, being recognized by players and media for being the best plyaer at your position this year, and yet getting snubbed. You don't get the money you deserve or the accolades you desire. Sure it matters.

If a player with a very high reputation kicks in a pro-bowl clause because they made it in on reputation, not performance, then what happens if that team has to then cut players nxt year because it is running too close to the cap? On the field performance issues because of the pro bowl.

All of football is entwined and you simply cannot seperate out the various elements and discard them.


-Anxiety

Originally posted by Anxiety
Imagine if you played your pants off and had a career year, being recognized by players and media for being the best plyaer at your position this year, and yet getting snubbed. You don't get the money you deserve or the accolades you desire. Sure it matters.


-Anxiety

Yeah, i imagine that's exactly how Hasselbeck feels. But don't feel sorry for the players. They sign the contracts. If they're incentive is based on whether they make the pro bowl or not, then they are foolish, because the pro bowl voting is a farce. That's why incentives should be stat based, not based on whether fans, coaches and peers vote a player to a "special" game.

I agree with your point about the fan voting, and how it could cause a situation where a guy gets snubbed. But, ultimately, the fans are the ones who buy the tickets and the merchandise and keep the NFL going. Don't you think they deserve a say?

Originally posted by Darkiller
now you have a TE, and I DID SAY HE WAS A DOMINANT ONE in the NFL, in my previous post, who plays in 9 fucking games (56% of the season) and he is selected among all 16 NFC Tight-Ends to represent them in the Pro Bowl ?!?!

What the ??? are you nuts ? Am I being "a 49er whiner" because I defend the fact that you have to play A SEASON OF FOOTBALL (contrary to a season of media alerts so get noticed) to be derserving ???

We're not talking about 16 games. There are still 2 to play, and I'm guessing that voting was finished before the 14th game for all teams.

So now we're talking about 13 games total. If Shockey was the most dominant TE in the NFC in 9 of 13 games, and can still lead the conference in GROSS stats (unlike the averages/ratings example you used), i see no problem with him being named first or second team.

I don't see any rules about number of starts or number of snaps played (and I'd gather he's on the field A LOT more than most other tight ends, especially with Dan Campbell gone to Dallas).

I think the injury argument is irrelevant in this case. Even playing fewer games, he was still the #1 or #2 tight end in the conference, and he should be rewarded for that.


edit: to clear up the grammar where I mentioned Dan Campbell (TE, Dallas)

my general thoughts on the Pro Bowl:
they should get rid of it
they should eliminate the fan vote (which is only a recent thing)
they should only name a 1st and 2nd string at all positions, no replacements
if they didn't actually play a game, replacements wouldn't matter
the league should ban the use of pro-bowl incentive clauses

Originally posted by cthomer5000
my general thoughts on the Pro Bowl:
they should get rid of it
they should eliminate the fan vote (which is only a recent thing)
they should only name a 1st and 2nd string at all positions, no replacements
if they didn't actually play a game, replacements wouldn't matter
the league should ban the use of pro-bowl incentive clauses


Amen

Originally posted by Darkiller
I don't agree with that.

It has nothing to do with him not being a 49er. This is silly. I'm talking about "the Game".
Pro Bowl is not a stat-only recognition. It's about a year long of football where you deal with 16 games of adversity, where you go throuh so many different phases and where you have to be the best at your position during that whole time.

Here's an example
How many QBs have ratings > 100 after 4-5 games ? a huge load.
How many will have the same ratings at year's end ? not much.
of, how many QBs are "on their way to a 5000 yard season if he keeps up the pace" after 4-6 games ???

BIG, BIG problem with your comparing a QB to Shockey in this case. A QB's rating can slide like a rock with a few bad starts. Enough QB's put up big yardage that a QB who only plays in 9 games likely won't lead the league in passing yards.

Shockey's numbers cannot get worse. He could have played 5 more games and not caught a pass and would still be leading the NFC in most of the receiving leaderboards for TE.

You show me a QB that leads the league in passing yards and TD's while only starting 9-10 games and I'll show you a guy that deserves to go to the pro bowl.

How are the pro-bowl squads selected?

Originally posted by judicial clerk
How are the pro-bowl squads selected?

Coaches, players, fans, and writers (not sure about that one) vote on them.

I have no idea what percentages each occupies, but judging by the worsening selections, the fan vote is too large.

coaches, players, fans are all 1/3...

Well, the game in itself is irrelevant.
but the selection process is what interests me and I think it's just great to have fans, players, managements vote for the "creme de la creme"

It's just to bad that we have to "deal" with guys playing half of the season.
And as it's been pointed out, the Fan vote is way to heavy in the balance.
(same in the Patriots SuperBowl two years ago when fans gave the MVP to Tom Brady when it should have been Ty Law I think..or someone from their secondary)

I'm sorry I won't back off from my argument, I just plainfully don't think you should be nominated when you miss the full 2nd half of the season.

I don't understand.

Originally posted by Darkiller
I'm sorry I won't back off from my argument, I just plainfully don't think you should be nominated when you miss the full 2nd half of the season.

I don't understand.

I don't understand why you're exaggerating the number of games missed. We're talking about missing 4 games in the period in which voting took place. I don't care if he doesn't play in the last 2 games, because there is no voting taking place.

What any of these players do in the remaining games is irrelevant.

If a QB threw 40 touchdowns before being injured midway through the season, should that disqualify him from being selected for the pro bowl?

no but we know it can't happen.
No QB will ever throw 40 Tds in 8 games.

I know the last two games are irrelevant as far as the Pro Bowl goes because the voting has already taken place, and believe me, this is not a decision that I support.
If I were in charge, I would make everyone vote two weeks later and would end the votes after week 17.

Still the point remains that this player, the STARTING Tight-End for the NFC in the Pro Bowl, has played half of the season...

I agree that Hasselbeck should be in, but it should be in place of McNabb.

Exactly... Haselbeck should be in, in place of McNabb, not Farve.

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
Exactly... Haselbeck should be in, in place of McNabb, not Farve.

But he'll likely replace Favre, since Favre's already suggested he won't be there because of injury. I told you, there's nothing to worry about - they'll ALL make the Pro Bowl.