Okay, we install the FOF2004 demo. After running the program, I am welcomed with a screen that says Front Office Football 2004 DEMONSTRATION. On the menu bar, it says NEW LOAD SAVE. I go with NEW game. Cool! I'm underway!

I enter my name. This has always been a great way to start any role playing experience. Then I choose my team and set the game options. Off I go!

Then there is a delay as the new game is configured, created, loaded, whatever....and then???? Nothing... this is very cold. It confuses many newcomers and some of us that are not as bright as the others.

Where is the "Welcome to FOF!" Or, "If you are new, this is what you should do..."

Ahhh, after scouring the screen, I see in the bottom right corner that I have one e-mail! Cool, let's check it out.....but it says,

"From: Director of Operations

Arizona sold 37,000 season tickets for the season out of a capacity of 73,200."

How did this piece of information take precedence of everything else? Beats me...so I delete it. Now what? Let's check out the menu at the top. Still says NEW LOAD SAVE. I guess I click on the little icons. What do they mean? Beats me, I can even drag my mouse over them...so I guess I will just click on them and see what happens next.

Ahhh! I'm a newbie, windows with massive ammounts of other clickable items have just appeared! I'm scared! Want to quit the game and play Madden....must resist the urge....where do I go first????

Well, I see Roster Commands, Global Game Options, Simulation Window, Almanac, Multi-player Controls, Depth Chart and Game Plan.

What the hell time is it? What year is it? What month am I in??? I don't know. After a first glance around the screen, I see in the Simulation Window --- Welcome to the 2003 season, Exhibition Week #1 - 2003....okay, so I guess it's late July or early August. At the bottom of the screen another time frame catches my attention - Year 2003, preseason.

I guess I need to set my rosters and get ready to start pre-season duties....

---------------------------------------------

The point I am hoping to make is that the game is just terribly cold and without a good linear feel. FOF2 seemed like the best iteration as far as good game flow is concerned. FOF2001 changed the feel, then FOF4 changed it again, and finally FOF2004 has maintained the same flow....but it's arguably the worst game flow of any of the Solecismic releases to date.

Would it really hurt the entire hard-core gaming experience to spice up the beginning of the season just a little to give you a good vantage point of where to begin and where you are going?

I want my seasons to be wrapped up into tight little packages. A season should begin a month or two after the SuperBowl and end with the SuperBowl and year in review. That's where I generally reflect on my career, check the stats, the record books, and then take a 5 minute break and then head into the next season.

Of course, the game is basically like this, but perhaps a static bar below the mini graphical icons should show indicators such as time, phase, beginning, end, notable events (free agency, trade deadline, draft day, end of season) just so it's readily viewable and available at all times. Not stuck down in some e-mail message that you have no clue is even there unless you are consciously searching for it.

Anyway, enought of my negative thoughts on FOF for now.


The game should give a little more effort to guide you through the season....especially for new gamers. A kinder, more linear feel couldn't hurt...could it?

I understand your point, but these type of games generally only appeal to a certain type of gamer anyway... and if that gamer isn't willing to atleast read the help file then he's not gonna care how many numbers David Carr threw for in 2008.


Sure a tutorial of some sort would be nice, but I think it's fairly simplistic once you adjust to it.

Actually, I agree with Dutch. Didn't earlier versions of FOF at least open one or two of the windows to get you rolling? Seems like upon starting a game the e-mail window, roster window, and simulation window should all be open.

One nit I have with the UI is that every time I load a game I have to click all the icons to open all the windows I use every time I play.

Originally posted by gstelmack
One nit I have with the UI is that every time I load a game I have to click all the icons to open all the windows I use every time I play.

Agreed. There should be a way to make the windows stay open in the configuration you have them set.

I believe that in FOF2K4 the windows will now remain in the same position when you open a saved game...

Edit: Can't type today...

I think Dutch makes a good point here. I've been playing FOF since the first iteration and love the series. Because of this, I know exactly what to do upon loading up the game. However, for a new player just downloaded the demo for the first time, I can see how there would probably be a lot of confusion.

Doesn't TCY feel pretty linear, with the e-mails telling you what to do at each stage?

I sort of agree with Dutch's statement. I mean we, here, all know what to do to start a new game. Heck I downloaded the demo for FOF2004 and I, at once, opened the 4 windows I needed without even thinking about it. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have some sort of first window, with a "do no show in the future" checkmark at the bottom, that can at least tell newcomers what they can do, where to look for their roster, gameplans, stats, whatever...

Just a thought...

FM

That was exactly my point about UI. FOF is a linear game (as it should be) so why not present the operational flow (as previous versions before FOF4 did)?

dola

One cannot assume that everyone can or should play the game like QuikSand.

I think it goes back to a long standing comment about FOF in that the gamer feels that everything must be under his/her control and that many feedbacks and interpretations are up to the user. I think there could be some instances to where the game kind of leads you a little, like in the sequencing of events and getting more interpretation and analysis to you.

Originally posted by SkyDog
Doesn't TCY feel pretty linear, with the e-mails telling you what to do at each stage?


Yep, TCY does it well.



Todd

I think the emails are key for the newbie -- the kind that say "this is what stage you are in and this is what you should be doing." Also helpful are the dialog boxes when you are going to a new stage that say, "are you sure, have you done this and that, because this is your only chance to do them."

FOF is sort of like Photoshop. You know it's a powerful program but the very first time you open it up you think, "what the fuck am I supposed to do now" and start reminiscing about how simple the interface of Microsoft Paint was.

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Agreed. There should be a way to make the windows stay open in the configuration you have them set.

I'm far from a programming expert, but ths exact issue was a source of major trouble during the testing process. I was staggered by the amount of time and effort it took Jim to try to do the right thing here, but (as best I can tell) the various different operating platforms and resolution sizes made this a real challenge. (This basically ended up being discussion number one with every beta release, which in the big picture is pretty pathetic)

So will the windows stay in place when loading a game, in the full game?

I'm not sure I get the issue about open windows but if I read it right, I prefer a design choice of having no windows open by default. But I understand the need to wanting to save a configuration and have it automatically read when restarting the application.

Maybe one of you really smart dudes can write up a lil begginers guide to get your team up and running,or what you do at the beggining of your season so some of the people trying this wonderful game will feel like they didnt miss something

Originally posted by kmbgolf
Maybe one of you really smart dudes can write up a lil begginers guide to get your team up and running,or what you do at the beggining of your season so some of the people trying this wonderful game will feel like they didnt miss something

This is a good idea. The FOF2004 walkthrough would be a big help to new users. Maybe I will take a crack at it.

That would be nice............

Played the game for the first time a few weeks ago, so i guess you can consider me a beginner. Only took me about 15 minutes before i was flying around the menus. I have a much easier time with this than say, ootp(which i havent played since 3). I like it much better than college years as well, though they are similar and i've only played college years for a total of 20 minutes.

Only thing i would like is to have more information available at any given time, from player ratings to financial stats. I don't like having to close out of windows, and open other ones to get some info, then go back to the first. Doesn't bug me to much though, and i'm sure its not easily fixable.

Okay, unless there is some reason not to do this (like somebody already has done it), I will write up an FOF2004 walkthrough for new users and put it out once the game is released. Hopefully it will solve some of the problems that Dutch raised at the beginning of this thread and make it easier for people to quickly get into the game.

Originally posted by yabanci
Okay, unless there is some reason not to do this (like somebody already has done it), I will write up an FOF2004 walkthrough for new users and put it out once the game is released. Hopefully it will solve some of the problems that Dutch raised at the beginning of this thread and make it easier for people to quickly get into the game. You write it, and we'll link to it from the main page, as well as from the F.A.Q. thread.

FOF4 was my first game in the series, and I didn't have much of a hard time picking things up in the demo, but I can see where some of the icons may not be completely intuitive.

After I purchased the game, I made sure to read the game instructions, which cleared up any other questions I had. But I realize I'm one of a dying breed where it comes to reading instruction manuals...

Originally posted by cuervo72
FOF4 was my first game in the series, and I didn't have much of a hard time picking things up in the demo, but I can see where some of the icons may not be completely intuitive.

After I purchased the game, I made sure to read the game instructions, which cleared up any other questions I had. But I realize I'm one of a dying breed where it comes to reading instruction manuals... Cuervo:

Dying, but not dead. When I buy a game from the store, I usually make the purchase on a day when I'm not eating lunch with someone. I grab the game, then go to lunch alone and read the manual before installing. I play the game that evening, then read the manual again at breakfast the next day.

Originally posted by SkyDog
Cuervo:

Dying, but not dead. When I buy a game from the store, I usually make the purchase on a day when I'm not eating lunch with someone. I grab the game, then go to lunch alone and read the manual before installing. I play the game that evening, then read the manual again at breakfast the next day.

About an hour after I wrote this I saw your mention in another thread that you read the manuals :) I always figure hey, I can use all the help I can get! A couple of years ago I would read them on the metro, now I just read them when the kids are in bed.

I do the same.

To me, reading manuals have always been a fun part of the hobby. There were numerous games in the past 15 years where reading the manual (which I always do before installing) was much more fun than playing the game. (The only exception was EU which both the manual and the game was no fun at all.) But I am reminded that it would be a good idea for me to read through all of FOF2004's help file instead of bits and pieces. It has been a while since I had done that. Good call.

The Original Baldur's Gate was my favorite manual ever.

Nothing like a good poop and a new game manual. When I hear of FOF 2004's release, I'm heading to Taco Bell for some burritos.

:D


Todd