I've decided to scrap it and start over.

I started this project about 2 years ago. Back then I was a sloppy coder. In fact, when I started this project, I didn't have many plans for it. I was just throwing together a very simple sim for multi-player.

As time went on, I added things to the design. Many things. A couple of attributes became dozens. Hidden ones got added. Coaches got added. Detailed game plans got added (and redone several times). Salary cap, Team financials, stadiums...the works.

I would say about 95% of what I have planned for this game right now was not in the original design.

Because of that, the code is extremly bad. I thought as I went through I would redo the code as I got to it. So far, it's worked. But after doing several things today, it's not working anymore.

I've learned an extremly valuable lesson working on this football sim. Never, under any circumstances, change the original design once coding has begun. And ALWAYS stick to the original design document. NEVER change the design, ALWAYS stick to it. A lesson that after 2 years on this thing, I've finally learned.

For my next project, I will be doing a SIMPLE game. A very simple one. It probably won't be football. I have not decided what it will be.

As for football, I'm hitting the books. I am going to learn everything I possibly can about college and pro football. THEN, and only after I have done that, I will write out a COMPLETE and DETAILED design document. And then, only after I have COMPLETED the design document, will I begin work on the football sim.

And I do not feel I have wasted my time on this. Plenty of the code and algorythms I have written out will be easily recycled into a new sim, most notibly the AI code. Much of the detailed AI I have worked on has been recent work and I feel much of it is good code. Unfortunaly, the sim will have to be scrapped, mainly because it's gone through so many rewrites, it's an entire mess.

For all those who responded to my previous thread, especially to those who are established developers, I know you encouraged me to stick with it. I asure that sticking with this code will fail. But I do plan on sticking with it, in that I do plan on trying to make th ebest football sim I can, even if it does mean I have to start over.

I would like to thank all those who have followed and supported my sim. There WILL be a football sim in the future. And this one will not begin half-assed as this one was (and thus I've had all my problems). I hope the devoted followers out there (all 3 of you) understand my decision. I do not want to continue working on a sim that I know will not turn out good. It was entirely my mistake and I have learned my lesson. I hope you will support my future projects. As I said, a football sim will be made by me, and this time, I'm going to do it right.

Sorry to hear that, I was looking forward to the game.

I think doing a blanket statistical simulation is the best way to get your feet wet. Just something that calculates who would win based on offense and defensive percents, with some other minor calculations such as homefield, form... thrown in. Games that are essentially like this have been my favorite ones, because they are simple, but still fun. For references just see some Dan Ryazansky games, he does soccer and hockey, and they were very easy.

I think getting a working model statistical model without doing all the 1000000000 plays programmed against eachother would be easier. Then you can concentrate of working on a simple financial system/league/player movement model. Then as you learn more, expand everything bit by bit. Something that I think Baseball Mogul should have done, but instead didn't do for some reason (a relatively simple sim, but never really got any more indepth).

Anyway, good luck with whatever you do decide to design, I'm sure most of us here are looking forward to whatever it may be.

Sorry to hear you're scrapping it Sabotai but glad to hear you've found enthusiasm for a brand new project. I'll definitely check out whatever you decide to make in the future. :)

how about "sim coder"

Never, under any circumstances, change the original design once coding has begun. And ALWAYS stick to the original design document. NEVER change the design, ALWAYS stick to it. A lesson that after 2 years on this thing, I've finally learned.

I disagree with what you learned. As someone who has spent many years developing products and applications, you always have to be flexible because needs change since the original concept. In other words, you build your code structure in a way that permits additions, deletions and modifications. Any one who feels that you must never change the design will be stuck with a product that becomes static, limited and inflexible. Besides, you said you never really had an original design document? Now you know the value of one, it is important to design and code within your abilities and your timeframe/priorities, but that still does not mean you must be so inflexible. Just my .01. Good luck.

My "programming" experience doesn't go beyond much beyond BASIC and HTML, although I have learned enough CGI, PERL, PHP and the like to customize or rework existing scripts, but I think what Sabotai is hitting a wall with is "scope creep." From the designers and programmers I work with, scope creep happens very easily and can definitely cause problems.

It sounds like the game was a very positive learning experience for you -- that's good. I know a lot of us were cheering you on, but the bottom line is that you got to do what Jim has told others to do -- design a game YOU like. That's the only way to design something others will like too.

Good luck, Sabotai. You're a sharp guy, so I know you'll land on your feet.

A, I agree with that. I was just over emphasizing for dramatic effect. :D

Seriously, I do understand the need to be flexible. Of course minor changes with come up that will be needed. I know that you don't write up a perfect design doc and stick with it. I guess what I'm saying is that the lesson I learned is the value of the complete design doc and never to begin coding before I have one, not that I have stick with it to the letter, just stick with it generally and semi-specifically allowing for minor changes and that crop up.

One of the things that got me with this project is that I did not build my code to easily allow additions, deletions and modifications. Mainly because I did not think I'd be doign such things when I started coding what was supposed to be a simple sim.

So I guess th eupdated lesson would be: Have a design doc that allows for flexabilty, and to not start coding until said design doc is completed. :)

I remember reading something from Jim saying he studied NFL football for an entire year before writing one line of code.

I knew you couldn't do it. :) :)

Good luck, I'll be looking forward to whatever sim/game you release.

TroyF

"I knew you couldn't do it. "

hahah. Yeah, we'll see about that. :)