dola

Coach Alphabet got a bit grumpy on his satellite radio show.......

Coach K rips realignment, says Maryland will be 'outsiders' in Big Ten (http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/15/coach-k-duke-maryland-big-ten/1836403/?morestories=obinsite)

dola

Coach Alphabet got a bit grumpy on his satellite radio show.......

Coach K rips realignment, says Maryland will be 'outsiders' in Big Ten (http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/15/coach-k-duke-maryland-big-ten/1836403/?morestories=obinsite)

Coach K can suck a big fat dick. He had no problem celebrating Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC, taking delight in adding such great basketball programs to the conference.

B1G looking at Virginia and either North Carolina or Georgia Tech.
SEC to jump on the "Raid the ACC" band wagon. They may be looking at UNC among others.
Big 12 to pick up the leftovers.

Big 10 and SEC Race to Add ACC Schools | Eers Authority (http://www.eersauthority.com/big-10-and-sec-race-to-add-acc-schools/)

I just hope ND gets left out in the cold somehow.

I just hope ND gets left out in the cold somehow.

+ 1

I just hope ND gets left out in the cold somehow.

Eh, they'd just make up their own conference.

"Multiple sources."

Wow. A Duke/North Carolina deal to the SEC would be huge. The football product wouldn't be greatly diminished, but the basketball league would get a huge boost. I'm sure most Mizzou fans would love to see Roy back at Mizzou Arena.

Duke basketball to the SEC? Seriously? Would the combined arrogance of SEC football and Duke basketball cause a spontaneous black hole that would kill us all? The Mayans were right, just a little off on the date.

Any source remotely connected to the Mountaineers has ZERO credibility.
Maryland fucked up, and I may be wrong, but I doubt any other team makes the same mistake.

Duke basketball to the SEC?

I can't imagine that happening in any scenario short of complete & utter chaos ... like all the conferences disband & start from scratch kind of chaos.

Maryland fucked up, and I may be wrong, but I doubt any other team makes the same mistake.

?

?

Well, they are going to make a bunch more money right now, but I believe that gap will close over the next 10 years to virtually nothing. Also, who knows what is going to happen with how we watch and pay for TV in the next 10+ years.

And money is the only reason for the move to the Big 10. They have to deal with a $50 million buy out fee and fan interest will likely be down. It is their own fault they screwed up their athletic budget, and if they didn't get into that financial mess ni the first place, they wouldn't have to make this move to help them get out.

Every other reason to move is a bad one: its a mid-west conference, they are a mid Atlantic team. They are 4-44 in football vs. big 10 teams, so forget ever having success again. Big 10 basketball is boring and they give up games vs the Carolina schools and others and over 60 years of tradition. Recruiting is going to suck hard for them. No lacrosse league. They were a charter member of the ACC and now they are a team being used for where they are located.

Basically, it was a move made with blinders on because they are desperate for money. There was no thought given to long term on this move.

I know we have Wisconsin slogball, but teams like IU and Michigan certainly play a fun style to watch.

FWIW, I'm don't like the move from a Big Ten perspective either.

I know we have Wisconsin slogball, but teams like IU and Michigan certainly play a fun style to watch.

They certainly do, but just in general it is not very exciting basketball, despite their being some very good teams in the conference year to year. It is usually a top 3 basketball conference and probably tops this year.

Well, they are going to make a bunch more money right now, but I believe that gap will close over the next 10 years to virtually nothing.

I'll take that bet, with the stakes being set at what you refer to as the "virtually nothing" gap.

It's a huge upgrade, the fans will get used to it and when a wagon like the B1G calls you, you fucking take it unless you're Notre Dame and think you're too good for it. It's not about the playing field. No one cares about that. It's about all of the other shit behind the scenes that really matters in the end.

Regardless of what the fan base wants, the rumors have been out there for the past month that BYU might end up back in the MWC.

The Boise State agreement was patterned to help BYU keep a lot of their rights that they have now if they were to come back in.

Well, they are going to make a bunch more money right now, but I believe that gap will close over the next 10 years to virtually nothing. Also, who knows what is going to happen with how we watch and pay for TV in the next 10+ years.

And money is the only reason for the move to the Big 10. They have to deal with a $50 million buy out fee and fan interest will likely be down. It is their own fault they screwed up their athletic budget, and if they didn't get into that financial mess ni the first place, they wouldn't have to make this move to help them get out.

Every other reason to move is a bad one: its a mid-west conference, they are a mid Atlantic team. They are 4-44 in football vs. big 10 teams, so forget ever having success again. Big 10 basketball is boring and they give up games vs the Carolina schools and others and over 60 years of tradition. Recruiting is going to suck hard for them. No lacrosse league. They were a charter member of the ACC and now they are a team being used for where they are located.

Basically, it was a move made with blinders on because they are desperate for money. There was no thought given to long term on this move.I think it was also about making sure they didn't get left out of the game of musical chairs. Big-14, SEC and PAC-12 look like the only 3 conferences that will definitely still be here if/when it goes to 4 16-team super-conferences, and Maryland would not have been involved in either the PAC or SEC expansion plans... so either they could jump on that offer when it happened or be sitting there now in the ACC hoping to be taken by either the old Big-10 or end up in a really geographically weird Big-12 if FSU+Clemson combined with Texas, WVU etc.

I do think the Maryland move will look a lot better when UVa and another team (especially if it's UNC or Duke and not GT/Syracuse) come along to round out the 16, whether that's in 2 weeks or 2 years (and the Big-10 will have the 6 teams for a lacrosse league then).

The research money the B1G schools get dwarfs the athletic money. This was about getting into a prestigious research conference.

I disagree that the basketball is boring. Im really enjoying it this season. I think Maryland will fit in nicely. If they can handle a physical conference. Gotta have a 6'7" 250 lb enforcer.

I agree with Kodos. I dont like the additions either. But the B1G is moving East. The Midwest is shut down now. I dont think Kansas was a possibility. And they are the only Midwest school left besides ND.

Maybe UNC jumps aboard and that will give Maryland their ACC rival back.

With picking up all the Big East teams, the ACC was at the point where they don't even have home-and-home. Maryland gets Duke at Comcast every other year? Whee.

edit: and that 4-44-1 is largely attributable to 1-35-1 against Penn State. No, they probably won't fare all that well in the B1G, but that 4-44 really doesn't mean much.

At the bottom of that article, it says the author is the Dude of WV. The next expansion move he predicts correctly will be his first.

The research money the B1G schools get dwarfs the athletic money. This was about getting into a prestigious research conference.

I disagree that the basketball is boring. Im really enjoying it this season. I think Maryland will fit in nicely. If they can handle a physical conference. Gotta have a 6'7" 250 lb enforcer.

I agree with Kodos. I dont like the additions either. But the B1G is moving East. The Midwest is shut down now. I dont think Kansas was a possibility. And they are the only Midwest school left besides ND.

Maybe UNC jumps aboard and that will give Maryland their ACC rival back.

The only way UNC goes is if the ACC as a whole detonates. UNC's got a prime spot as one of the kingfish in the ACC. They aren't going to give that up for a complete culture change where the league they're in is run from Chicago and they aren't even close to being at the top of a pecking order that's dominated by Michigan and Ohio State and every other state university in the Midwest with their colossal fanbases.

Also it's been proven pretty much that the Eers Authority site is garbage rumormongering by a bitter WVU fan who hates the ACC. Anything coming from there should be taken with boulders of salt.

As for Duke to the SEC, ha. Don't make me laugh. They'll consider dropping to I-AA in football and relocating the basketball team into the Catholic 7 league long before going to the SEC (hell, most of their fans and alumni are in the Northeast). Also, Kentucky probably doesn't want them and K isn't going to be around forever. The question is what will become of Duke after he retires. Duke's a valuable property only so long as the basketball team wins.

The research money the B1G schools get dwarfs the athletic money. This was about getting into a prestigious research conference.This is the part where I really don't understand the mechanics, so an honest question - why would Maryland get extra research grants/money for being in the B1G vs. the ACC? I understand the B1G schools get a lot of research money, but isn't that just because they're really big universities with good academic reputations? Did the relationship between Iowa's bio-chemical engineering department's and their peers at Nebraska change in the last 2 years?Maybe UNC jumps aboard and that will give Maryland their ACC rival back.UNC makes a lot of sense for #16, but between their basketball prestige and more southern geography I think they're at least on the SEC's radar, (as well as being a big fish in the ACC) so they might not jump at an offer... as opposed to UVa, who I would bet a lot of money on being in the B1G when it expands to 16, and is much more of a rival to UMd.

This is the part where I really don't understand the mechanics, so an honest question - why would Maryland get extra research grants/money for being in the B1G vs. the ACC? I understand the B1G schools get a lot of research money, but isn't that just because they're really big universities with good academic reputations? Did the relationship between Iowa's bio-chemical engineering department's and their peers at Nebraska change in the last 2 years?

It has to do with being a part of the CIC, which is made up of the Big 10 schools plus the University of Chicago. Rutgers and Maryland will be in as of 7/1/13. In your example, if Nebraska submits a proposal to obtain some sort of research funding related to bio-chemical engineering, part of their pitch could be that their chances of success will be improved because they can draw on Iowa's world class facilities in that area.

Committee on Institutional Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Institutional_Cooperation)

www.cic.net seems to be producing an error on my end right now.

Gotta say, Holy Shit....BYU 2013 Schedule without weak conference tie ins. BYU now has their toughest schedule ever and traveling to Wisconsin and Notre Dame in November is crazy!

I honestly can't wait!

Aug. 31 at Virginia
Sept. 7 Texas
Sept. 14 BYE
Sept. 21 Utah
Sept. 27 Middle Tennessee State
Oct. 4 at Utah State
Oct. 12 Georgia Tech
Oct. 19 at Houston
Oct. 26 Boise State
Nov. 2 BYE
Nov. 9 at Wisconsin
Nov. 16 Idaho State
Nov. 23 at Notre Dame
Nov. 30 at Nevada

That is a really good schedule. Not a lot of thumpers. A few obviously, likemnay teams have, but still, pretty strong stuff.

I'm seriously thinking about making the trip to Provo for the game on the 7th.

I'm seriously thinking about making the trip to Provo for the game on the 7th.

With money being tight, I am going to pick 1 game to travel to from Buffalo. I am debating on the Provo game on the 7th, Virginia on Aug 31 or to South Bend...

Just debating...If I travel to Provo, I don't have to worry about room and board and really it would be a flight to Vegas and a drive up with my sister to our family.

I'm almost positive I'm going to the Ga Tech game. Only question is whether it is a father/son trip or the whole family.

Some unconfirmed reports that the ACC will reshuffle divisions, with the main thrust being Louisville coming into what is now the Coastal and Geogia Tech moving over to what is now the Atlantic.

Some unconfirmed reports that ...

Redundant to point out in this thread IMO

Apparently ESPN (maybe Heather Dinich specifically) thought enough of it to check it out. Their Twitter feed ESPN_ACC mentioned contacting the league office about it and got a reply that it wasn't true.

LOL......someone's still a bit bitter about Mizzou leaving the Big 12.

"Our bad years are not that bad. Take a school like Mizzou. Our bad years are better than their good years."

-Deloss Dodds, Feb. 11th, 2013

But I hear UT isn't obsessed about Mizzou, so that's good. I hear he usually brings up Mizzou in articles where he's being attacked by a reporter over the state of his program.

UMKC leaves the Summit for the WAC.

UMKC leaves the Summit for the WAC.

I guess they figure it helps WAC keep auto-bid and differentiation to boot. TLDR: Easier path to a bid.

UMKC leaves the Summit for the WAC.

Fantastic news for UMKC. Should really help the draw. They play in Municipal Auditorium here in KC, which still holds the record for most NCAA basketball championship games hosted. Love to see more good basketball down there.

OSU AD Smith: 'Strong likelihood' of sharing division with Michigan - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21727271/osu-ad-smith-strong-likelihood-of-sharing-division-with-michigan)

'Inside Maryland Sports' saying mutual interest between UNC and SEC. Also said that FSU remains a likely B12 target when next round of moves begins.

Jeff Ermann ‏@insidemdsports

The #SEC also remains a viable option for #UNC. Legit mutual interest, per multiple sources. Heels a crown jewel of the realignment picture.

Huh. I saw an article the other day saying UNC had an offer from the Big Ten.

Here it is:

Maryland 247 site reporting North Carolina has Big Ten offer, Virginia on deck? - Land-Grant Holy Land (http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2013/2/19/4005512/report-north-carolina-has-big-ten-offer-virginia)

Big 10 makes more sense to me than SEC. But, of course, what makes sense is rarely a consideration with these conference moves.

Here it is:

Maryland 247 site reporting North Carolina has Big Ten offer, Virginia on deck? - Land-Grant Holy Land (http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2013/2/19/4005512/report-north-carolina-has-big-ten-offer-virginia)

It's the same source that I cited. Inside Maryland Sports is also Maryland 24/7. The two conferences are courting the same teams. Just waiting to see which one wins out.

At this point, I think the best I can hope for is a Big 20, with one division made up of established Big 10 teams, and the other all the newer, eastern schools.

At this point, I think the best I can hope for is a Big 20, with one division made up of established Big 10 teams, and the other all the newer, eastern schools.

What would the divisions be called at that point?

East and West. West would be the traditional Big Ten teams. But anything would be better than what we currently have as far as names are concerned. It'd basically be the traditional Big 10 in one division, and the best of the Big East/ACC in the new division.

I'd like to see us bring in Kansas too.

So, one division:
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Illinois
Minnesota
Purdue
Northwestern
Iowa

Other division:
All the rest

What would UNC, Virginia and Georgia Tech bring to the Big Ten? - Land-Grant Holy Land (http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2013/2/21/4008594/what-would-unc-virginia-and-georgia-tech-bring-to-the-big-ten)

Man i think within 3 or 4 years I will end up not following college sports at all. This is so depressing.

Man i think within 3 or 4 years I will end up not following college sports at all. This is so depressing.

You mean you aren't excited by the idea of getting annual doses of those soon-to-be-classic UNC v. Arkansas or UNC v. Iowa battles?

Man i think within 3 or 4 years I will end up not following college sports at all. This is so depressing.

I'd rather see GT join the SoCon than the B10. Maybe even the Atlantic Sun.

Talk about a zero interest situation for me, this would be it.

Yeah, this stuff isn't fan driven.

You guys are getting an idea on what it has been like to be a (former) Big East fan the past 10-12 years.

It will be interesting to see if the "bigger is better" model holds up over time (if it comes to fruition).

Hypothetical question - if UNC leaves, does it make sense for Duke (and maybe Wake Forest) to drop football to FCS and join the C7? What if FSU/Clemson/VT/NC State also leave for the Big12 or SEC?

Hypothetical question - if UNC leaves, does it make sense for Duke (and maybe Wake Forest) to drop football to FCS and join the C7? What if FSU/Clemson/VT/NC State also leave for the Big12 or SEC?

I've thought it made sense for Duke, GT, and Wake (as well as Vandy) to all drop football to I-AA for years.

Hypothetical question - if UNC leaves, does it make sense for Duke (and maybe Wake Forest) to drop football to FCS and join the C7? What if FSU/Clemson/VT/NC State also leave for the Big12 or SEC?

Why would they do that?

You mean you aren't excited by the idea of getting annual doses of those soon-to-be-classic UNC v. Arkansas or UNC v. Iowa battles?

I know in part I'm just being an old man who hates change here, but I have yet to find a way to care about UNC vs Boston College or UNC vs Virginia Tech. Adding Pitt, Syracuse and Notre Dame and losing Maryland may end up being the last straw for me even if UNC doesn't move. I've never liked bigger conferences either. 12 schools is too many for a basketball conference, 16 is just ridiculous. So far this year I've watched 6 of their 26 games, even in the Matt Doherty years I would have watched 20 games by now. Ah well, curmudgeon out!

Why would they do that?Duke is one of the few schools that makes more money off basketball than football (or if they aren't now, would be once the ACC football deals shrink considerably with FSU/Clemson/VT/etc departures). Under that scenario, a cobbled together ACC, even if it added UConn and Cincinnati, would be about equal at basketball to a C7+ with Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Butler, Xavier, St. Louis, etc. Plus they seem to have more in common with the northeast schools than the teams that would be left in the ACC (Miami?, UVa, GT, WF, BC, Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, UConn?, Cincy?, ND?)

Just wondering at what point they would cut the cord with no local schools around other than WF (who could go with them) and UVa.

would be about equal at basketball to a C7+ with Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, Butler, Xavier, St. Louis, etc.

This number is going to be awfully low.

Anyway, nobody of any significance has, or will be leaving the ACC, so it doesn't matter.

Oklahoma to the Big10 is the next big move.

I think you will be proven wrong, sir.

Anyway, nobody of any significance has, or will be leaving the ACC, so it doesn't matter.

I know you're looking at this from a different angle, but, the ACC was founded 60 years ago by seven schools, and during that first year added an 8th. One of them (South Carolina) left in 1971. A second is leaving in the next year or two. Its a significant thing.

I think you will be proven wrong, sir.

Of course it is possible, anything is, but much less likely than the crazy theories that are thrown around here all the time.

I know you're looking at this from a different angle, but, the ACC was founded 60 years ago by seven schools, and during that first year added an 8th. One of them (South Carolina) left in 1971. A second is leaving in the next year or two. Its a significant thing.

I understand what you are saying, but is anybody really going to miss Maryland? And didn't the ACC end up in a better spot overall with (Louisville + ND baskeball) - Maryland?

I thought the B1G made it clear it was going East. I dont think any more Midwest schools are getting in. But that is speculation. UCLA could be next for all I know.

Oklahoma to the Big10 is the next big move.
I doubt it. The B1G will continue to pursue AAU Universities. Money is king, but so long as they can find AAU schools that will improve their market footprint, they will prioritize those over schools with perceived lesser academic reputations.

I understand what you are saying, but is anybody really going to miss Maryland? And didn't the ACC end up in a better spot overall with (Louisville + ND baskeball) - Maryland?

From a fan perspective, i don't think any conference has ended up in a better place. Not a single one.

I doubt it. The B1G will continue to pursue AAU Universities. Money is king, but so long as they can find AAU schools that will improve their market footprint, they will prioritize those over schools with perceived lesser academic reputations.

Nebraska loses AAU status - Big Ten Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/26078/nebraska-loses-aau-status)

Nebraska loses AAU status - Big Ten Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/26078/nebraska-loses-aau-status)
And you'll note that Nebraska lost that status after they had already been admitted to the B1G.

Don't know if anyone has noticed but Missouri hasn't lost a hoops or football game in the B1G this year.

And you'll note that Nebraska lost that status after they had already been admitted to the B1G.

Actually before they were admitted but after they were accepted. Either way, it was a pretty embarrassing situation for the B10.

Actually before they were admitted but after they were accepted. Either way, it was a pretty embarrassing situation for the B10.
Somewhat embarrassing. But accepting a school that was at the time a member of the AAU and had been for over a century is still a big difference from considering a school that has never been a member of the AAU and is not a likely candidate to become a member anytime soon.

My point still stands that AAU membership matters to the B1G, and they'll continue to prioritize expansion that looks at AAU members (excepting of course Notre Dame) over those that aren't.

Of course it is possible, anything is, but much less likely than the crazy theories that are thrown around here all the time.I don't see how UNC or UVA (either with each other, or with a GT/Duke) to the B1G is crazy. There's a decent sized hurdle in each case (The B1G doesn't think UVA brings a big enough media market, UNC will be very reluctant to leave Duke behind), but they're the most logical moves on the board.

Nebraska was brought in because of their culture. They are a Midwest school. They were what the B1G was looking for in a 12th member. And they were the anti-PsU, so to speak.
Maryland and Rutgers were a brought in because of their AAU status, East coast footprint and a nod to the academics (academia?) for allowing the conference to bring in Nebraska.
The B1G wasnt going to let Nebraska go anywhere else. That school is as Midwest as it gets.

UNC will probably be ready to leave Duke behind as soon as Krzyzewski retires, though Lord knows when that will be.

West Virginia discovers it is a pain in the ass to send your volleyball team to Iowa one week and Texas the next. Who knew?

Big 12 agrees to look at WVU's travel problems - The Exponent Telegram : Sports (http://www.exponent-telegram.com/sports/article_b06ac074-7e3e-11e2-aa76-001a4bcf887a.html)

Really interesting interview with Kevin Harlan this morning on local radio. He was at a gathering with some B10 officials yesterday. Said that two officials told him very similar things.

-Said that B10 is definitely going to 16 teams and is considering 18 or 20 teams.
-Said that Texas is actively courting the B10 and is looking to find a way out of the Longhorn Network mess by merging it with a conference network. Also, ESPN would likely not block any move like that because they are losing millions each year on the deal due to the block of HS sports.
-B10 still believes that KU cannot join the B10 without KSU coming along. Could be a deal breaker if that doesn't change.
-B10 is still interested in bringing Mizzou into the conference. They believe that Mizzou would move if other former Big 8 teams were brought into the conference.

Ouch.

Big East Conference, ESPN agree to TV rights deal - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8977673/big-east-conference-espn-agree-tv-rights-deal)

West Virginia discovers it is a pain in the ass to send your volleyball team to Iowa one week and Texas the next. Who knew?

Big 12 agrees to look at WVU's travel problems - The Exponent Telegram : Sports (http://www.exponent-telegram.com/sports/article_b06ac074-7e3e-11e2-aa76-001a4bcf887a.html)

It makes too much sense for college football and basketball to become separate semi-pro leagues, and then for all other sports to engage in regional collegiate athletics.

Would love to see UConn in the Big Ten because I could easily catch some IU games.

It makes too much sense for college football and basketball to become separate semi-pro leagues, and then for all other sports to engage in regional collegiate athletics.

+1

It makes too much sense for college football and basketball to become separate semi-pro leagues, and then for all other sports to engage in regional collegiate athletics.

+2

It's just about a done deal that the Big East will be dead as a football league as soon as this summer. The football playing members will survive, but the name will be different:
Catholic 7 schools to keep 'Big East' name for new league next season, according to sources - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9000502/catholic-7-schools-keep-big-east-name-new-league-next-season-according-sources)

The "new" Big East is also picking up Xavier and Butler from the A-10 and probably Creighton from the MVC for a 10-team league starting this summer. Longer range intention is apparently plucking out Dayton and St. Louis to make 12 by 2014-15.

The other domino that may fall is the ACC getting Notre Dame a year ahead of schedule since ND had only committed to the Big East on the assumption that the Catholic 7 were still on board next year. If there's any problems in coming to the ACC in 2013, ND has said they may seek a one-year membership with the new Big East before moving to the ACC the following year. If I'm the ACC, I damn well make sure there's no problems. Last thing you need is ND getting a one-year tryout with the new league, finding out they like it, and then not having to worry about the other schools pressuring them to commit their football program anymore. Not sure if there's anything in the ACC bylaws that stipulate a buyout if reneging on joining like what happened with TCU and the Big East, but ND's probably got better lawyers than Maryland does to get out of anything serious.

Louisville and Rutgers are committed for one more year to the ex-Big East regardless as it is too late to make any changes to football schedules (not to mention if Louisville came before Maryland left, it'd be an unwieldy 15-team ACC).

The one thing I don't remember was why and how WVU was able to leave immediately while everyone else had/has to wait, even ND. What was the deal with WVU?

The one thing I don't remember was why and how WVU was able to leave immediately while everyone else had/has to wait, even ND. What was the deal with WVU?

WVU paid $20m to get out early (http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/45604/breaking-down-wvu-big-east-settlement) after dueling lawsuits.

It's just about a done deal that the Big East will be dead as a football league as soon as this summer. The football playing members will survive, but the name will be different:
Catholic 7 schools to keep 'Big East' name for new league next season, according to sources - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9000502/catholic-7-schools-keep-big-east-name-new-league-next-season-according-sources)

The "new" Big East is also picking up Xavier and Butler from the A-10 and probably Creighton from the MVC for a 10-team league starting this summer. Longer range intention is apparently plucking out Dayton and St. Louis to make 12 by 2014-15.

The other domino that may fall is the ACC getting Notre Dame a year ahead of schedule since ND had only committed to the Big East on the assumption that the Catholic 7 were still on board next year. If there's any problems in coming to the ACC in 2013, ND has said they may seek a one-year membership with the new Big East before moving to the ACC the following year. If I'm the ACC, I damn well make sure there's no problems. Last thing you need is ND getting a one-year tryout with the new league, finding out they like it, and then not having to worry about the other schools pressuring them to commit their football program anymore. Not sure if there's anything in the ACC bylaws that stipulate a buyout if reneging on joining like what happened with TCU and the Big East, but ND's probably got better lawyers than Maryland does to get out of anything serious.

Louisville and Rutgers are committed for one more year to the ex-Big East regardless as it is too late to make any changes to football schedules (not to mention if Louisville came before Maryland left, it'd be an unwieldy 15-team ACC).

Smart brand decision for the football schools. Big East is so sullied at this point that a bunch of imposters hanging with that name would've continued to be a joke. Rebrand and reestablish yourself with a new name.

Longer range intention is apparently plucking out Dayton and St. Louis to make 12 by 2014-15.

Yeah, we'll see. We've been fucked before (in the aftermath of the Great Midwest Conf.).

Yeah, we'll see. We've been fucked before (in the aftermath of the Great Midwest Conf.).

I still remember when Dayton, Notre Dame, DePaul, and Xavier (and possibly Marquette) used to play home&home every year when they were all independents.

Grew up in Dayton. Was planning to go to XU until tuition shot up 25% between 1989 and 1990 and made that undoable...well, that and a full scholarship offer to another school.\

It was Marquette. We were terrible in the last half of the 80's and early 90's, except for a single shining run in '89-'90. I think we went something like 4-26 one year, which didn't help the cause.

But even as good as UD's fan support is, it was always going to be a struggle to get in the new Big East because we are in something like the #65 media market, and are a small fish in the big pond of Ohio basketball, perenially behind Ohio State, Xavier, and Cincinnati (not to mention others most years)... and X and UC practically overlap with our media market.

I've already begun considering who the A10 would get as replacements for the very good chance that we are stuck there instead.

It was Marquette. We were terrible in the last half of the 80's and early 90's, except for a single shining run in '89-'90. I think we went something like 4-26 one year, which didn't help the cause.

But even as good as UD's fan support is, it was always going to be a struggle to get in the new Big East because we are in something like the #65 media market, and are a small fish in the big pond of Ohio basketball, perenially behind Ohio State, Xavier, and Cincinnati (not to mention others most years)... and X and UC practically overlap with our media market.

I've already begun considering who the A10 would get as replacements for the very good chance that we are stuck there instead.1. St. Louis (Big East allegedly in 2014-15)
2. VCU
3. La Salle
4. Butler (Big East allegedly in 2013-14)
5. Xavier (Big East allegedly in 2013-14)
6. Temple (Former Big East in 2013-14)
7. UMass
8. Richmond
9. George Washington
10. Saint Joseph's
11. St. Bonaventure
12. Charlotte (Conference-USA is 2013-14)
13. Dayton (Big East allegedly in 2014-15)
14. URI
15. Fordham
16. Duquesne

I guess the question would be whether the A10 tried to retain a midwestern footprint (Ohio U, Detroit?), if they'd just raid the CAA (George Mason, Northeastern?) or try to extend further South (Georgia State, Florida Gulf Coast, Jacksonville?)

Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick open to joining Catholic 7 league for one season - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9003784/notre-dame-athletic-director-jack-swarbrick-open-joining-catholic-7-league-one-season)

Notre Dame basically sends sweet songs to the C7 to tell them they'd hang with them for a year en route to the ACC.

AP Source: Big East football keeps $100m in split - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-big-east-football-164841850--ncaaf.html)

AP Source: Big East football keeps $100m in split - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-big-east-football-164841850--ncaaf.html)

So the Big East is sitting on a pot of money. Is there anything smart they can do with it at this point that could strengthen the conference?

So the Big East is sitting on a pot of money. Is there anything smart they can do with it at this point that could strengthen the conference?

Bet it on black?

What to name non-departing Big East schools? Revive 'Metro Conference' (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/03/05/former-metro-commissioner-wouldnt-mind-if-big-east-revives-name/1965393/)

One suggestion for the name of the Big East football exiles - reviving the Metro Conference name.

So the Big East is sitting on a pot of money. Is there anything smart they can do with it at this point that could strengthen the conference?

They'll be investing that money in facility upgrades in hopes of getting into a better conference.

Yup yup

Most of that money is going to UConn, Cincy and USF.

One suggestion for the name of the Big East football exiles - reviving the Metro Conference name.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Notre Dame Fighting Irish could join ACC this summer if school can negotiate Big East exit, according to sources - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9022342/notre-dame-fighting-irish-join-acc-summer-school-negotiate-big-east-exit-according-sources)

ACC would take Notre Dame this summer after all..

Big East eyes 'America 12' as new conference name for football schools, sources say - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9028021/big-east-eyes-america-12-new-conference-name-football-schools-sources-say)

Big East football schools to become the America 12 conference.

I hope Rutgers doesn't spring for a new stencil to spraypaint the football field, much less actually spend money on signage for a year.

Big East eyes 'America 12' as new conference name for football schools, sources say - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9028021/big-east-eyes-america-12-new-conference-name-football-schools-sources-say)

Big East football schools to become the America 12 conference.

Much better than "Not Conference USA...Seriously!"

East and West. West would be the traditional Big Ten teams. But anything would be better than what we currently have as far as names are concerned. It'd basically be the traditional Big 10 in one division, and the best of the Big East/ACC in the new division.

I'd like to see us bring in Kansas too.

So, one division:
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Illinois
Minnesota
Purdue
Northwestern
Iowa

Other division:
All the rest

So you would put Nebraska in the East?

Does anyone have a good resource that shows all of the conference realignment that has happened? I would like to see what happened to the Big east teams that aren't in the new conference. Like where did UConn go?

UConn remains in the Big East, and has no option to move right now. (sorry...the America 12)

So you would put Nebraska in the East?

I would put Nebraska in the "New" division. They wanted the money, they can deal with the extra travel. East and West was a bad word choice. My divisions would be New and Old.
:)

I just want my team to play the traditional teams, rather than all the newbies that I don't care about.

Does anyone have a good resource that shows all of the conference realignment that has happened? I would like to see what happened to the Big east teams that aren't in the new conference. Like where did UConn go?

UConn is sticking with the America 12.

Conference Realignment | CollegeSportsInfo.com (http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference-realignment-grid/)

This guy has been the best at keeping up with the changes and speculating ideas often before they'd happen.

Big East will be Catholic 7 (Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, Providence, DePaul, Georgetown & Marquette) along with Xavier (A10), Creighton (MVC) Butler (A10) going immediately and probably Dayton (A10) and St. Louis (A10) joining in 2014-15.

America 12 is all of the football schools from the Big East and in theory, Notre Dame though the split means they're probably headed to the ACC early it seems. (Memphis, Temple, East Carolina, SMU, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, UConn, Cincinnati) Louisville & Rutgers will play for one year before leaving for ACC & B1G respectively. Tulsa is the likeliest expansion candidate right now for this league to give them 12, once Navy joins in 2015.

I hope Rutgers doesn't spring for a new stencil to spraypaint the football field, much less actually spend money on signage for a year.

Just put the B1G logos, banners, etc. up now and fuck this conference. :popcorn:

SEC network announcement to come shortly after NCAA tournament is complete......

Commissioner: SEC to announce launch of TV network in mid-April - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--commissioner--sec-to-announce-launch-of-tv-network-in-mid-april-180504054.html)

Just put the B1G logos, banners, etc. up now and fuck this conference. :popcorn:

I would think Rutgers should be excited about the 2013 football season. It is really their last chance to win a league (outright) and get that elusive BCS bid, whatever that may be in 2013. :popcorn:

I would think Rutgers should be excited about the 2013 football season. It is really their last chance to win a league (outright) and get that elusive BCS bid, whatever that may be in 2013. :popcorn:

Isnt OSU eligible? Im not sure how Rutgers will stand up against that team.

Isnt OSU eligible? Im not sure how Rutgers will stand up against that team.

:withstupid:

SEC network announcement to come shortly after NCAA tournament is complete......

Commissioner: SEC to announce launch of TV network in mid-April - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--commissioner--sec-to-announce-launch-of-tv-network-in-mid-april-180504054.html)

This actually kinda surprises me in a way.

I've seen the ratings for the games that are already airing. Outside of football, nothing else has a pulse outside of a few markets (Lady Vols b'ball, UK men's hoops, etc).

I'm just not sure where anybody makes their money back on the additional investment honestly. There aren't THAT many vanity advertisers out there, and those that are won't be making a buying decision based on a few thousand extra spots in programs that literally post a 0.0 rating (i.e audience is too small to be reliably measured).

:withstupid:

Youre a sweetie.

My bad. 2013 in the Big East. Thinking they would be aboard the B1G.

Divisions debate down to Indiana, Purdue - Big Ten Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/73332/divisions-debate-down-to-indiana-purdue)

The East division looks pretty stacked. Could be tough sledding for my Hoosiers.

Divisions debate down to Indiana, Purdue
March, 19, 2013
By Adam Rittenberg | ESPN.com

The Big Ten's future division alignment is taking shape. Barring a late shift in the discussions between athletic directors and league officials, the only question to sort out is: Will Indiana or Purdue move West?

League sources have told ESPN.com that the Big Ten, as expected, will go with a geographic split for its divisions in 2014. As we first reported last month, time zones are expected to divide the divisions. The only problem: eight Big Ten schools are located in the Eastern time zone, including future members Maryland and Rutgers, while just six are located in the Central time zone.

One team needs to move West, and speculation has centered on three schools: Purdue, Indiana and Michigan State. But Michigan State isn't in play to move West, sources say, and the debate now is whether Indiana or Purdue enters the "West" division.

Although no announcement is imminent and discussions will continue, here's what the divisions are expected to look like (the division names have yet to be decided):

"East" division

Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
Rutgers
Purdue or Indiana


"West" division

Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Wisconsin
Purdue or Indiana

Before Hoosier fans and Boiler fans panic about their annual rivalry, rest assured that the Bucket game will be preserved with a protected crossover. Barring a change in the discussions, Indiana-Purdue will be the only protected crossover, as the Big Ten wants to create as much flexibility as possible with its schedules.

League sources tell ESPN.com that a 9-game conference schedule likely will go into effect for the 2016 season -- there's still some discussion about a 10-game league slate, but all signs point to nine -- and that the goal is for every pair of teams to play at least once every four years.

The proposed alignment likely will spark concern about whether the "East" division -- featuring Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Michigan State -- has too much firepower. You can make a good case (Brian Bennett did) that moving Michigan State to the West creates better competitive balance, but the sentiment among the power brokers is that the West still will have enough substance with Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa and an improving Northwestern program. Michigan State athletic director Mark Hollis recently talked about the advantages of being linked to the East Coast and reiterated his desire to play Michigan every year.

So it's almost certainly coming down to Purdue versus Indiana. Purdue has the richer football heritage, reaching 12 bowl games since the 1997 season. Indiana appears to be on the rise under coach Kevin Wilson but must overcome a history of losing. Both teams have trophy games against other Big Ten squads -- Purdue and Illinois play for the Purdue Cannon, while Indiana and Michigan State play for the Old Brass Spittoon -- but both series are, in our view, expendable.

My division alignment proposal had Purdue going West, and I'm sticking to it. Purdue is stronger historically and gives the West a program that not long ago was competing for league titles. Although Indiana certainly is headed in the right direction, Purdue is a safer pick to balance out the power in the East.

It'll be tough for Rutgers as well. I don't care though...can't wait for my 2014 season tickets to arrive.

Seems a no-brainer for Indiana to go east and Purdue west. Its better geographically and the east really needs a cupcake. It would be pretty insane if they used those divisions for basketball though.

The East is going to be brutal for football.

Eh, I don't know why you guys are worried about divisions, Jim Delany is on the record as saying that the Big 10 schools will drop down to a Division III-style arrangement if Ed O'Bannon wins his lawsuit against the NCAA. I'm sure he's being sincere and everything.

Jim Delany: Big Ten could go to D-III if O'Bannon beats NCAA - College Football - Andy Staples - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130318/big-ten-jim-delany-ncaa-obannon/)

X, Butler and Creighton to make it official this morning - Xavier, Butler, Creighton set to announce Big East move (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/03/19/xavier-move-big-east-leave-atlantic-10/2000145/)

Catholic-7, but who is really paying attention anyway?

Catholic-7, but who is really paying attention anyway?

No, remember? The so-called C7 schools got to keep the Big East name. It's the other guys who have to find a new name in the next couple of months.

I was in Omaha over the weekend and the newspaper had a huge feature on the Big East move. They're pumped about this step up to the big time for them.

As a fan of one of the C7, I wish we picked the new name. The "Big East" moniker has been so maligned over the past decade that it only leaves a negative impression in mind.

No, remember? The so-called C7 schools got to keep the Big East name. It's the other guys who have to find a new name in the next couple of months.The "America-12" trial balloon did not go well. Mike Aresco says America 12 name 'unlikely' - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/id/42919/aresco-says-america-12-name-unlikely)

As a University of Dayton fan, this news is not going over well. The statement at the presser that "we are happy at 10 teams" is... saddening. Plus, looking at the conference that will likely be left if SLU, Richmond, and UMass leave... is depressing. VCU may even look to get out. People are panicking and saying that Dayton should try to get in the Missouri Valley as Creighton's replacement. Dogs and cats living together --- mass hysteria.

As a fan of one of the C7, I wish we picked the new name. The "Big East" moniker has been so maligned over the past decade that it only leaves a negative impression in mind.

I think they'll restore it, since it's basketball/olympic sports only. Still has some value. It's the football schools where it'd become a joke and they wisely needed a change. Seems like with America 12 failing, they will default back to Metro Conference.

As a University of Dayton fan, this news is not going over well. The statement at the presser that "we are happy at 10 teams" is... saddening. Plus, looking at the conference that will likely be left if SLU, Richmond, and UMass leave... is depressing. VCU may even look to get out. People are panicking and saying that Dayton should try to get in the Missouri Valley as Creighton's replacement. Dogs and cats living together --- mass hysteria.Wait... is the thinking that the nBE will take SLU and Richmond, and leave Dayton behind? UMass to the old BE looks less likely - it seems like they're only considering Tulsa right now. (Hopefully they just hold off on them for now, and our football team can pick up some wins and fans in the next couple years, but they don't want us now with our 1 win-season and sub 10k attendance.)

Hearing George Mason and Siena to the A10 might be close... George Mason is a no-brainer imo (and according to some would have already been in if Charlotte's leaving didn't give us an odd number of teams), and Siena isn't a terrible choice, although I might prefer Stony Brook - the SUNY system seems to be turning them into a real flagship - or Davidson, who is a smaller school, but has a real track record of basketball success. I know neither is midwestern at all, but I don't see why other schools in that direction would want to come in without some commitment from Dayton and SLU which I doubt they want to give. (I'm also not really sure there are many good midwestern options - Indiana State wouldn't be bad, but Ohio U probably wouldn't leave the MAC, and who's next? Wichita State would be like 400 miles from another school, I'm not a fan of Belmont.)

Yes, word is that Georgetown is pushing Richmond... which would actually make more sense geographically, despite the fact that UD is better in nearly every measure than Richmond... bigger fan base, bigger TV market, better basketball history, larger school. Basically, the feeling is that since they didn't announce who the next "round" of entrants would be in another year, that there is no internal agreement within the NBE beyond SLU. No news is bad news.

I don't know that I would take George Mason... I would like Davidson quite a bit, though. Siena is also a meh for me. I don't think Wichita State would leave the MVC for the relative uncertainty of the A10.

Yes, word is that Georgetown is pushing Richmond... which would actually make more sense geographically, despite the fact that UD is better in nearly every measure than Richmond... bigger fan base, bigger TV market, better basketball history, larger school.

Just for the record ...

Richmond is TV DMA #57 with 553,390 households
Dayton is TV DMA #63 with 498,270 households

Just for the record ...

Richmond is TV DMA #57 with 553,390 households
Dayton is TV DMA #63 with 498,270 households

You forgot the other thing in the City of Richmond's favor - it's not Dayton, OH.

Just for the record ...

Richmond is TV DMA #57 with 553,390 households
Dayton is TV DMA #63 with 498,270 households

Right, I think I was confusing that with Omaha. But as far as viewing audience within the DMA for the team's games, I think Dayton blows just about everyone else out of the water. Sadly, they have no real national pull.

Don't get me wrong, do I think UD "deserves" to be in the Big East? If you are basing it largely on performance on the court, absolutely not. But then, neither does DePaul or Providence or Seton Hall. Dayton has been mediocre for 30 years, if not more, and they have squandered chance after chance at national relevance. If we end up not playing in the Big East, then we have no one to blame but ourselves... and our shitty coaching decisions.

But, to say that Richmond would be a better choice is pretty ridiculous. Whether you think Dayton is a shithole or not has nothing whatsoever to do with which program has more upside or brings more to the table. Dayton is the proverbial 5 tool player with upside that can't get out of A ball because he can't figure out how to hit a curve. Richmond isn't even the favorite team in their own city. Let's be real here.

Right, I think I was confusing that with Omaha. But as far as viewing audience within the DMA for the team's games, I think Dayton blows just about everyone else out of the water. Sadly, they have no real national pull.

Don't get me wrong, do I think UD "deserves" to be in the Big East? If you are basing it largely on performance on the court, absolutely not. But then, neither does DePaul or Providence or Seton Hall. Dayton has been mediocre for 30 years, if not more, and they have squandered chance after chance at national relevance. If we end up not playing in the Big East, then we have no one to blame but ourselves... and our shitty coaching decisions.

But, to say that Richmond would be a better choice is pretty ridiculous. Whether you think Dayton is a shithole or not has nothing whatsoever to do with which program has more upside or brings more to the table. Dayton is the proverbial 5 tool player with upside that can't get out of A ball because he can't figure out how to hit a curve. Richmond isn't even the favorite team in their own city. Let's be real here.

Well, in fairness, before 4-5 years ago they WERE the favorite basketball team in their city. Ok, maybe it's more fair to say before 2 years ago, they were the basketball program with the most National recognition.

I think you're selling UofR short here. I'm probably biased somewhat on the opposite side from you, but they bring quite a bit to the table as far as Basketball.

For the record, I feel bad for Wade and W&M fans - they went from having a pretty sweet geographically-centric CAA for them to losing VCU, ODU, and now maybe George Mason in like 2 years.

Right, I think I was confusing that with Omaha. But as far as viewing audience within the DMA for the team's games, I think Dayton blows just about everyone else out of the water. Sadly, they have no real national pull.

Don't get me wrong, do I think UD "deserves" to be in the Big East? If you are basing it largely on performance on the court, absolutely not. But then, neither does DePaul or Providence or Seton Hall. Dayton has been mediocre for 30 years, if not more, and they have squandered chance after chance at national relevance. If we end up not playing in the Big East, then we have no one to blame but ourselves... and our shitty coaching decisions.

But, to say that Richmond would be a better choice is pretty ridiculous. Whether you think Dayton is a shithole or not has nothing whatsoever to do with which program has more upside or brings more to the table. Dayton is the proverbial 5 tool player with upside that can't get out of A ball because he can't figure out how to hit a curve. Richmond isn't even the favorite team in their own city. Let's be real here.

As a Dayton native (CJ-grad), my recollection is UD has not always been so mediocre. They seemed to win a fair amount of games and played very tough. I also seem to recall a year where they lost to the eventual national champs 4 years in a row in the Big Dance.

Sadly, Dayton seems to have become more of a shithole than it was when I grew up there and before I moved for economic reasons (1980s-1998). alas, can't imagine them not in a conference with XU anymore.

B1G getting rid of cross divisional "rivalries". Going to 9 games in 2016. The only guaranteed yearly game is Purdue/Indiana.
Im bummed about this. If Purdue goes East we lose our most hated rival. I mean that was THE game i looked forward to every year.

This actually kinda surprises me in a way.

I've seen the ratings for the games that are already airing. Outside of football, nothing else has a pulse outside of a few markets (Lady Vols b'ball, UK men's hoops, etc).

I'm just not sure where anybody makes their money back on the additional investment honestly. There aren't THAT many vanity advertisers out there, and those that are won't be making a buying decision based on a few thousand extra spots in programs that literally post a 0.0 rating (i.e audience is too small to be reliably measured).

But everyone else is doing it. Why learn from mistakes when you can just copy theirs?

SI

B1G getting rid of cross divisional "rivalries". Going to 9 games in 2016. The only guaranteed yearly game is Purdue/Indiana.
Im bummed about this. If Purdue goes East we lose our most hated rival. I mean that was THE game i looked forward to every year.

I'm pretty sure IU will end up in the East. Lots of football heavyweights already in. They'll be looking to put in a cupcake team (even if IU is improving quickly). Plus, Purdue is farther west than IU.

I'm pretty sure IU will end up in the East. Lots of football heavyweights already in. They'll be looking to put in a cupcake team (even if IU is improving quickly). Plus, Purdue is farther west than IU.

Also puts IU and MSU together for their trophy game.

I'm also of the impression that Richmond is better academically than Dayton, but I could be wrong.

Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are moving up from the FCS ranks to join the Sun Belt conference.

Appalachian State Mountaineers, Georgia Southern Eagles to join Sun Belt, according to sources - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9097544/appalachian-state-mountaineers-georgia-southern-eagles-join-sun-belt-according-sources)

As long as the program remains somewhat successful, I can see App State doing well in the FBS -- and they do have those 3 straight FCS titles from '05-'07 to hang their hats on. The couple of times I've been to Kidd Brewer Stadium in the last several years, the stadium was jammed (it has grown from 16.5k to 24k capacity in that timeframe), even in cold weather. And I think the Mountaineers can shrug off rivals like Western Carolina (who's pretty moribund) for Sun Belt teams, and it doesn't hurt to bring Georgia Southern along.

Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are moving up from the FCS ranks to join the Sun Belt conference.
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Hell, Southern is already the 2nd best football program in the state.

I don't know that I would take George Mason... I would like Davidson quite a bit, though. Siena is also a meh for me.Atlantic 10 Conference Adds George Mason University as Full Member - Atlantic 10 Conference Official Athletic Site (http://www.atlantic10.com/genrel/032513aaa.html)

Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are moving up from the FCS ranks to join the Sun Belt conference.

Appalachian State Mountaineers, Georgia Southern Eagles to join Sun Belt, according to sources - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9097544/appalachian-state-mountaineers-georgia-southern-eagles-join-sun-belt-according-sources)

Instantly making App State one of my favorite teams in the FBS.


Man I want A NEW FOF: TCY so BADLY

Man I want A NEW FOF: TCY so BADLY

Would you say you yearn for TCY2? Cause I yearn.

SEINFELD "THE KEYS" (DO YOU EVER YEARN?) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/vnqBAuehmhM?t=1m12s)

Idaho and New Mexico State will be joining the Sun Belt as football only members.

Idaho Vandals, New Mexico State Aggies headed for Sun Belt Conference in 2014, sources say - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9099719/idaho-vandals-new-mexico-state-aggies-headed-sun-belt-conference-2014-sources-say)

I'm trying to catch up here and saw that the former Big East got a long term deal (football and basketball??). Can someone tell me the annual per team payout for:
former Big East now
former Big East before
new Big East
upgraded ACC
Mountain West

I'm trying to catch up here and saw that the former Big East got a long term deal (football and basketball??). Can someone tell me the annual per team payout for:
former Big East now
former Big East before
new Big East
upgraded ACC
Mountain West

Google Machine (http://collegesportsinfo.com/2012/05/10/2012-ncaa-television-revenue-by-conference/) searching yielded the following. I searched because I too, was curious:

MWC: Mountain West
10 years, $120 million, CBS College Sports (through 2016)
Annual: $12 million
Average Annual per School: $1.33 million

CUSA
5 years, $35 million, CBS College Sports (through 2016)
5 years, $35 million, Fox (through 2016)
Annual: $14 million
Average Annual per School: $1.17 million

SEC: 15 years, $2.25 billion, ESPN (through 2024)
15 years, $825 million, CBS (through 2024)
Annual: $205 million
Average Annual per School: $17.1 million
Assuming the conference maintains its current lineup of 14 members, the combination of new deals with ESPN and CBS, along with the formation of a 100% SEC-owned network, would bring the SEC schools nearly $23 million apiece in 2014-15, according to an estimate prepared for USA TODAY Sports by a college sports rights-valuation firm.

ACC: 15 years, $3.6 billion, ESPN (through 2027)
Annual: $240 million
Average Annual per School: $17.1 million
(This includes the additions (http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/05/10/2054760/acc-espn-agree-on-36-billion-tv.html))

ORIGINAL BIG EAST: 6 years, $200 million, ABC/ESPN [CBS contributes $9 million of total] (through 2013)
Annual: $40 million
Average Annual per School: $3.18 million for football schools, $1.56 million for non-football schools

OLD BIG EAST (NEW TV DEAL): That will bring the Big East's total media rights value to about $22 million annually, starting in 2014 and, based on a 12-team league, worth about $1.8 million per school annually.

The Big East Conference confirmed Saturday that ESPN has matched a media rights deal offer, keeping the network as the league's primary rights holder.

The deal is for seven years and worth $130 million through the 2019-20 school year, league sources said. The Big East's new deal is worth less per school than its current ESPN deal and six times less than what ESPN presented two years ago. (LINK (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8977673/big-east-conference-espn-agree-tv-rights-deal))

Just the other day (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21953673/new-big-east-deal-worth-3-million-per-year): The soon-to-be renamed Big East will collect a total of $4 million over seven years for men's basketball games broadcast on CBS beginning in 2014, two sources with knowledge of the contract told CBSSports.com.

The basketball deal, which gives CBS the rights for up to 12 league appearances per season, comes after the announcement of a $126 million contract with ESPN to televise football for the new league. Both deals are for seven years. CBS will have the first selection from conference and non-conference home games, as well as some games played on neutral sites. Half of those appearances will be league games.


NEW BIG EAST/CATHOLIC 7 + 3: 12 years/$500 million deal with new FOX Sports 1 network. Each school will make between $4-5m per season under the new deal.


Big East And Catholic 7 Television Deals Do Not Add Up - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2013/03/23/big-east-and-catholic-7-television-deals-do-not-add-up/?partner=yahootix)

Combined, the Big East and Catholic 7 are going to $62 million a year with their new television deals. Two years ago ESPN offered the 16-team Big East $1.2 billion over nine years, or $133 million a year (a 270% increase from what it was paying at the time) was turned down by the Big East. The result is that combined the current Big east and Catholic 7 conferences are going to earn half the television money they were offered as one conference in 2011.

Thank you, that's a good summary.

Combined, the Big East and Catholic 7 are going to $62 million a year with their new television deals. Two years ago ESPN offered the 16-team Big East $1.2 billion over nine years, or $133 million a year (a 270% increase from what it was paying at the time) was turned down by the Big East. The result is that combined the current Big east and Catholic 7 conferences are going to earn half the television money they were offered as one conference in 2011.

So the Providence Mafia shot themselves in the foot? I added MWC so I could see context compared to the northeast.

Yeah, great post YD

So the Providence Mafia shot themselves in the foot? I added MWC so I could see context compared to the northeast.

Well actually, Georgetown and the basketball schools -- not all -- were the reason they turned down the first deal. They thought they could get more on the open market. Then all hell broke loose and they came out way worse.

But yes, ultimately, the Providence clan were to blame for their consistent blunders and overplaying their hand.

So the Providence Mafia shot themselves in the foot? I added MWC so I could see context compared to the northeast.

No. Those numbers were based on the composition of the Big East at that time (plus the future expansion). Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Louisville and I believe TCU and Boise State all included. Take out all those teams, and the value drops enormously. The biggest and dumbest misconception parroted by the media is that if the Big East took the deal when it was offered, none of the movements would have taken place. Every school would have still left for the better deal they received (or will receive). The network would have invoked the out clauses in the deal and the Big East would be right back at this spot.

So schools like Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville et al goes from roughly $3m/year to $17m?

So schools like Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville et al goes from roughly $3m/year to $17m?

WVU actually got bumped up to $21 million for joining the Big 12. They are getting a partial share of the Big 12 revenue, due to a loan they took out from the conference to help with their Big East exit fees. They will get a full $26 million share in the 2015 season.

http://www.wvgazette.com/Sports/201206010255

So WVU went ahead a paid the full exit fee so they could jump early, while Syracuse and Pitt decided to wait it out?

So WVU went ahead a paid the full exit fee so they could jump early, while Syracuse and Pitt decided to wait it out?

No, Syracuse and Pitt were obligated to wait until July 1, 2014 to exit the league based on the 27 month requirement for withdrawal as stated by the conference bylaws, and in doing so would pay a $5MM exit fee. They were able to pay $10MM instead to leave for 2013.

How much did WVU had to pay to exit in 2012?

How much did WVU had to pay to exit in 2012?

$20 million.

No, Syracuse and Pitt were obligated to wait until July 1, 2014 to exit the league based on the 27 month requirement for withdrawal as stated by the conference bylaws, and in doing so would pay a $5MM exit fee. They were able to pay $10MM instead to leave for 2013.

I thought it was 7.5MM for Pitt and Cuse.

And the problem with WVU's 20MM was that a portion of it had to be used to get Temple out of the MAC early.

So schools like Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville et al goes from roughly $3m/year to $17m?

I believe WVU was getting around $6 million from the Big East after bowl payouts and everything else while in the Big East. That is expected to go up to over $30 million per year once the full share from the Big 12 kicks in (plus bowl payouts, ect) and the Tier 3 deal is finalized.

So WVU went ahead a paid the full exit fee so they could jump early, while Syracuse and Pitt decided to wait it out?

Syracuse and Pitt had a landing spot (already invited to and agreed to join the ACC). They and the ACC were alright with the possibility of waiting it out for 27-months (although, it had been speculated that they would get out a season early).

The Big 12 needed to remain at 10 teams to retain their TV contract (after losing Missouri and A&M and adding TCU) and invited WVU to join for the 2012 season. WVU, knowing that the Big East was a sinking ship, paid $20M to avoid the 27-month exit agreement so they could join the following season.

There was speculation that, if WVU would not have been able to join for the 2012 season, they may not have gotten an offer (or someone else, like Louisville, would have stepped up and paid).

Somewhat ironically, WVU probably would have finally gotten their long-coveted invitation to the ACC after Maryland left, but they had signed the GOR and paid the buyout to join the Big 12 already.

WVU will make more money playing in the Big 12 and have better access to bowls, but has no traditional or regional rivals, which sucks.

Somewhat ironically, WVU probably would have finally gotten their long-coveted invitation to the ACC after Maryland left, but they had signed the GOR and paid the buyout to join the Big 12 already.

WVU will make more money playing in the Big 12 and have better access to bowls, but has no traditional or regional rivals, which sucks.

While this season ended poorly after a strong start, and was disappointing from that regard, I enjoyed the crap out of the Baylor game and the Texas games, but eventually, too many teams I don't care about ruined the season, you know?

Of course another problem is the Big XIII vs ACC battle we all expect some day to figure out who is the 4th in the dance, if the ACC wins, the remnants of teh Big Xii willl find some major leagues, but WVU could be left holding their hat, because th ACC will want bigger teams that us I suspect.

Western Kentucky from Sun Belt to C-USA. Tulsa probably to the Big East. I believe that means James Madison to the Sun Belt. FCS football is dead.

More room for the Northwest!

The former Big East will be known as the AAC (American Athletic Conference).

Ha

@celebrityhottub

AAC? Somebody wanted to be first in the phone book.

Yeah it's not the worst name in the world. A lot better than what I thought they'd come up with, honestly.

Can't wait for those ACC v. AAC showdowns. And for reporters' attempts at describing them as such.

If you can't beat 'em, brand as close to them as possible.

I was thinking about the new ACC (with SU/Pitt, then Louisville) and how that will become even more of a power basketball conference while still remaining a mediocre football one. How much does/will basketball generate for ACC (tickets and/or TV money) compare to football?

I was thinking about the new ACC (with SU/Pitt, then Louisville) and how that will become even more of a power basketball conference while still remaining a mediocre football one. How much does/will basketball generate for ACC (tickets and/or TV money) compare to football?

ACC, ESPN agree to 15-year extension - Hokies Journal - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/hokies-journal/post/acc-agrees-to-15-year-extension-with-espn/2012/05/09/gIQAoRkdDU_blog.html)

Thanks DC. Even as powerful ACC will become in basketball, are the revenues for such small compared to football?

Thanks DC. Even as powerful ACC will become in basketball, are the revenues for such small compared to football?

20% of the ACC revenues go to basketball. So Notre Dame will get 1/15th share in that pie. They won't reap any of the football benefits.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2012/09/12/notre-dame-join-acc

20% of the ACC revenues go to basketball. So Notre Dame will get 1/15th share in that pie. They won't reap any of the football benefits.

Notre Dame to join the ACC | The Chronicle (http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2012/09/12/notre-dame-join-acc)

ND gets the football benefits of access to all bowl tie-ins. Under their Big East deal they had limited access to Big East bowls.

While this season ended poorly after a strong start, and was disappointing from that regard, I enjoyed the crap out of the Baylor game and the Texas games, but eventually, too many teams I don't care about ruined the season, you know?

Not excited about that final Big XII game against Kansas last season?!? There was all sorts of drama like could Geno Smith get over 400 yards (yes), could WVU put up 60 on Kansas (no! 59-10, bitches!), and more!

SI

Press conference date and time set to announce new SEC network.....

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Morning-Buzz/2013/04/12/SEC.aspx?hl=slive&sc=0

Article about Louisville's move to the ACC. Officials feel fortunate that the B12 decided against admitting them to the conference.

Also funny that the sole contact with the B12 by Louisville according to article was......wait for it......Deloss Dodds. Shocking.

Everything's been roses for ACC-bound Louisville after getting spurned by Big 12 - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--everything-s-been-roses-for-acc-bound-louisville-after-getting-spurned-by-big-12-233454253.html)

Mr. SEC discusses setup of SEC Network. Sounds like they followed the B10 model.

So What Will The SEC’s New Network Mean For You? (http://www.mrsec.com/2013/04/so-what-will-the-secs-new-network-mean-for-you/#more-268626)

Article about Louisville's move to the ACC. Officials feel fortunate that the B12 decided against admitting them to the conference.

Also funny that the sole contact with the B12 by Louisville according to article was......wait for it......Deloss Dodds. Shocking.

Everything's been roses for ACC-bound Louisville after getting spurned by Big 12 - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--everything-s-been-roses-for-acc-bound-louisville-after-getting-spurned-by-big-12-233454253.html)

FTFA:
Jurich and president James Ramsey lobbied their peers within the league, particularly working on the kingpins at Texas and Oklahoma. Basketball coach Rick Pitino – who in his gut had no interest in coaching in Lubbock, Ames and other Big 12 locales – reached out to Bill Self at Kansas, seeking support. U.S. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, a Louisville alum and fan, put in a word with former Senate colleague David Boren, now president at Oklahoma.

:rolleyes:

Yet again, MBBF's inferiority complex over DeLoss Dodds shines through.

Yet again, MBBF's inferiority complex over DeLoss Dodds shines through.

The only thing inferior to Deloss Dodds is the moderating on this message board.

Loyola Chicago heading to the MVC to replace Creighton. Huge come-up for them. Davidson likely headed from the SoCon to the A10.

Loyola Chicago heading to the MVC to replace Creighton. Huge come-up for them. Davidson likely headed from the SoCon to the A10.

I'm a bit surprised UMKC didn't wait for that MVC spot. Seems like a great fit for that conference.

Wow, Loyola? That seems like a reach. Their basketball has been... terrible for decades now. They haven't even made the tournament since '85.

Wow, Loyola? That seems like a reach. Their basketball has been... terrible for decades now. They haven't even made the tournament since '85.

I think the idea was they wanted a metro team and to get someone who wouldn't pull a Butler, get good and then leave the year after. So they got a safety school in a major market. It was UIC or Loyola or Valpo, not sure what Valpo didn't get the nod.

But again, these decisions aren't about competitiveness.

I'm a bit surprised UMKC didn't wait for that MVC spot. Seems like a great fit for that conference.

They got a visit a few weeks ago. They were passed over.

Loyola Chicago heading to the MVC to replace Creighton. Huge come-up for them. Davidson likely headed from the SoCon to the A10.

A Chicago school with some history is a nice add for the MVC; hope the Ramblers get up to snuff with the rest of the conference. As for Davidson, didn't they turn down a CAA invite a few months ago? I remember their rationale being something like "we like being a big, smart fish in a small pond." To be fair, the combination of 1) an invite from the A10, a much more prestigious conference, and 2) Appalachian State and Georgia Southern chasing football into the Sun Belt, will probably help Davidson move on. Good for them.

I'm a bit surprised UMKC didn't wait for that MVC spot. Seems like a great fit for that conference.

Err... their WAC move was essentially a concession that they couldn't/didn't want to hack it in the Summit, as far as I read it.

I think the idea was they wanted a metro team and to get someone who wouldn't pull a Butler, get good and then leave the year after. So they got a safety school in a major market. It was UIC or Loyola or Valpo, not sure what Valpo didn't get the nod.

But again, these decisions aren't about competitiveness.

I understand, but DePaul barely pulls viewers from Chicago, I really don't think this will make the media ripple they think it will.

I understand, but DePaul barely pulls viewers from Chicago, I really don't think this will make the media ripple they think it will.

In conferences like that, it's not really about tv money because they're never going to get that. It's as simple as "it's easier to travel there for teams by bus and it's a place people would rather visit, so coaches have an easier time recruiting to a league with a major city in it than a league with small towns. When Wichita is your biggest market, that's understandable."


It's simply a psychological thing and probably other intangibles like comfortability, good fit and the structure of the athletic department not being run by a bunch of fuckoffs.

The idea is essentially like starting a relationship, especially for teams that probably aren't going anywhere.

All seems silly from the outside looking in, but the calculus on these things at that level can be nebulous. What's funner is, when you consider realignment at the D3 level and how it happens.

As for Davidson, didn't they turn down a CAA invite a few months ago? I remember their rationale being something like "we like being a big, smart fish in a small pond." To be fair, the combination of 1) an invite from the A10, a much more prestigious conference, and 2) Appalachian State and Georgia Southern chasing football into the Sun Belt, will probably help Davidson move on. Good for them.I think that may have been Davidson politely declining an invitation to a conference in the CAA they thought was (or at least might be, and has now proven to be) a sinking ship.

By Dave Tobin | [email protected] The Post-Standard
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on April 17, 2013 at 5:09 PM, updated April 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM


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For Syracuse University to leave the Big East Conference and join the Atlantic Coast Conference, it has to pay the Big East a $7.5 million exit fee. But what part of the university should pay it?

The university’s trustees say the cost should be shared by the whole university - every school, every revenue-generating entity such as its office of housing and meal plan, as well as the athletics department.

Wednesday afternoon, at the final University Senate meeting of the year, members of its budget committee recommended that SU's athletics department alone should pay the exit fee.

The chief reason? Syracuse’s athletics program stands to make far more money from its annual conference payout, which comes from conference television contracts.

“At a time when the University is (fiscally) challenged, asking the entire university to bear the cost of the exit fee so that coaches’ salaries and facilities for athletics may be improved does not align with the core academic mission of the University,” the budget committee’s resolution read.

Published estimates of conference payouts for 2012 cited average Big East payouts as $3.18 million per year and ACC payments of $16 million. Those figures “are not inconsistent” with estimates the university provided the budget committee, said Craig A. Dudczak, budget committee chairman.

Syracuse University won't disclose exactly how much revenue it gets from the Big East, or what it expects to get from the ACC.

The University Senate is mostly an advisory body and has no authority to make spending decisions for SU.

Syracuse University will leave the Big East this July. The university has already paid at least 20 percent of its $7.5 million exit fee.

Syracuse's everyone-share-the-payment approach is different from at least one other school that left the Big East – West Virginia University.

Michael Parsons, deputy athletics director at West Virginia, said the athletics department there paid an exit fee of nearly $10 million to the Big East with money it borrowed from the Big 12 Conference, which it joined last July. West Virginia’s loan will be “paid down” through reduced payments from the Big 12 in its first years of membership.

"There were no university funds whatsoever,” said Parsons.

Syracuse University's budget is a virtual watershed of income streams, with each revenue-generating entity paying a roughly 21 percent tax, called an administrative and support charge, to a common fund, which supports programs without revenue, like security, the chancellor's office and the library.

A second pool of money helps balance revenue programs that lose money. The athletics department is one.

"Most people believe that athletics generates money and helps support the university. That's not so," said Robert van Gulick, a member of the University Senate budget committee. “You’ve got 35 or 40 sports and only two of them (football and men’s basketball) are making money. Athletic scholarships are paid by financial aid, which is entirely financed by schools and colleges. If the athletics department had to pay for athletic scholarships, they’d be bankrupt.”

The university administration argues the present shared payment plan is best, said Kevin Quinn, a university spokesman, in an email.

Syracuse University will “recoup” its Big East exit payment through increased ACC payments to the athletics department in less than three years, he wrote. By 2016, through the “tax” the athletics department pays, roughly an additional $9 million a year will flow to the university’s common fund.

The university administration also argues that membership in the ACC will increase Syracuse University’s visibility nationally, help it recruit students and faculty from the south and west and affiliate Syracuse with quality research institutions.

But members of the University Senate budget committee weren’t swayed by the administration’s argument.

“We have no data to back up claims that it will help recruitment,” said Van Gulick. "Athletics are being treated differently."

Both Van Gulick and the budget committee chairman, Dudczak, noted the disagreement did not signal a split between athletics and academics at the university.

"We're supportive of athletics," said Van Gulick. "We think it's a good thing. What people are upset about is that athletics is a net taker. They take out more than they put in."



It is incredulous to me that anyone would ask the whole university to help pay the exit fee when nearly all of the benefits will be given to the athletic department. If it were up to me, all extra revenues from being in the ACC should be distributed to the academic colleges and not to the AD. What does having a bigger training center have to do with the university?

Maybe they should just shut down those pesky departments that don't make money like the library, and security, and use all that money for the athletic program. And honestly, does the school need a history department? Close that down, use that money for football.

It is incredulous to me that anyone would ask the whole university to help pay the exit fee when nearly all of the benefits will be given to the athletic department. If it were up to me, all extra revenues from being in the ACC should be distributed to the academic colleges and not to the AD. What does having a bigger training center have to do with the university?

Forget where the money to pay the exit fee comes from, but it is well proven that excellent athletic teams raise the entire profile of a university. It increases the number of applicants, in some cases by multiples. A large pool of candidates from which to select students raises the academic profile of a school.

On a side note, the old training facilities go to the non-revenue athletes and the general student population for intramurals.

Forget where the money to pay the exit fee comes from, but it is well proven that excellent athletic teams raise the entire profile of a university. It increases the number of applicants, in some cases by multiples. A large pool of candidates from which to select students raises the academic profile of a school.

On a side note, the old training facilities go to the non-revenue athletes and the general student population for intramurals.

And how well would the athletic programs fare without the university?

Edit: And maybe applications go up somewhat if the football team plays in a shit bowl instead of no bowl at all, but I doubt the students who make enrollment decisions based on that are the ones that improve a university's "academic profile."

it is well proven that excellent athletic teams raise the entire profile of a university.

Well, that's only true if the university was a nobody before (i.e. BC before Flutie, Miami before Schnellenberger). Syracuse has had winning basketball for years now, so I don't think the ACC will do anything to raise its profile. That said, the increased payouts in the ACC will at least reduce the athletic department's dependence on the rest of the university to cover its budget deficits.

Seriously. When I applied to schools, I didn't go "hmm, which of these have good football and basketball teams?" I asked "which schools have a high academic profile and are strong in my intended major?" I didn't know Hopkins had a lacrosse team, I wasn't aware of RPI's hockey team, I didn't care about Virginia Tech's football team. Penn? Please. Brown? Ha!*

I knew a lot of smart kids who went to Penn State. It has a good honors program. And! We lived in Pennsylvania! I knew kids who went to E-town, Shippensburg, Muhlenberg, F&M...because they were also relatively close-by. I knew kids who went to Lehigh, Lafayette, Temple, Villanova. A couple went to Towson. A couple to Cornell. I don't think any of them went because of their powerhouse sports teams.

(edit: there was a guy who went to Princeton to wrestle. And I forgot we also had a Yaley (http://www.advancedderm.com/medical-professionals/47/NancyChung.aspx).)

* I admit that I really, really wanted to go to Duke. This was after I visited and realized that holy shit, the campus is gorgeous. And it was despite having hated the Blue Devils in the '80s.

Seriously. When I applied to schools, I didn't go "hmm, which of these have good football and basketball teams?" I asked "which schools have a high academic profile and are strong in my intended major?"

I've known a lot of people who eliminated schools because of the lack of a D1 football program, and some who've done so because of the lack of a successful D1 program. That's a rather large part of the "college experience" for a fairly large number of people.

That said though, the real impact would be on lower profile schools being able to draw applicants from outside their geographic area. The simple awareness that a particular school even exists is heightened considerably by athletic success (Florida Gulf Coast being the latest example I guess).

I can see it being a regional thing I guess. Near Philly, if you really cared about football THAT much, you just went to Penn State. But of course that was already going to be the fallback option (or the economic option).

By-and-large, the kids in my classes...they weren't really that into sports. Some followed the local pro teams, sure. For many of them, sports weren't even on the radar. I mean, we were nerds. Colleges were for academics. Other friends who played sports weren't good enough for major programs, but they could play at the smaller state/D3 schools.

Yeah, it's a regional thing. Few people really care all that much about college football in the northeast. If college football mattered up here, we'd still have a Big East

I can see it being a regional thing I guess. Near Philly, if you really cared about football THAT much, you just went to Penn State. But of course that was already going to be the fallback option (or the economic option).

You raise another possible regional difference too. In my mind, I'd say that PSU is basically the nearest equivalent of UGA (or vice versa). But here UGA is the school that nearly everyone* staying in state tries desperately to get into, not the fallback.

The only kids who have UGA as a fallback are the relative handful who want to go elsewhere out of state but either don't get in or ultimately can't swing the cost difference of going out of state.

*that isn't looking at something in the engineering field

Well yeah, fallback for those who may have really wanted to go to Princeton or MIT or Caltech and either just didn't have the means or didn't get in, and even the it was the honors program there. The top 10% of class 1200+ SAT types.

Yeah, it's a regional thing. Few people really care all that much about college football in the northeast. If college football mattered up here, we'd still have a Big East

+1. I don't even recall anyone in my high school class who went to a school due to their football team.

I'll admit that all 8 colleges I got into as a HS senior have D1 football teams. Maybe I could have looked at more small, private schools with deemphasized athletics. But I ended up going in-state, anyway--tuition, honors prgm, so on. The awesome team (basketball) had nothing to do with it.

When I was looking for grad schools in 1999, my top two choices outside of WVU were Syracuse and Virginia Tech, in part because they were in the Big East and good schools.

I think we can finally change the title of this thread ;)

SI

+1. I don't even recall anyone in my high school class who went to a school due to their football team.

Didn't have many attend SEC schools I gather.

Didn't have many attend SEC schools I gather.

They probably actually wanted to get a degree in an academic subject instead of getting a degree in pep rallies. :D

I wish I had a list with the alma maters of my HS class - I can't think of anyone who went to an SEC school, though with a class of 575, there must have been someone.

Whether a school has a lot of big time sports programs can definitely be an enrollment decision factor, because that can be one of the fun things about college, but that's the difference between Muhlenberg and Penn St, or Colgate and Syracuse. What annoys me is when its used as the justification for ANY additional support given to the athletic programs. An extra few million to an already big athletic program isn't going to cause your school to jump up the US News rankings.

They probably actually wanted to get a degree in an academic subject instead of getting a degree in pep rallies. :D

In no shortage of cases, I wouldn't argue that point.

I wish I had a list with the alma maters of my HS class - I can't think of anyone who went to an SEC school, though with a class of 575, there must have been someone.

That's be interesting for my high school, too. Tho I think of the 520, probably half went to college and another half of those went to either UT or A&M

SI

I went to Carolina in the mid-1980s. The first year, I went to a few basketball games at Carmichal and the next year, at dean dome. If I didn't go or if they did not exist, I would've gone to the movies instead. Same thing with football games, I should've spent more time driving around the region on fall weekends. Point is, movie theaters were just as viable of a diversion and they didn't impact my fees or took resources away from department. As far as my fellow grad students, the only ones that cared were the locals and some the long timed, old professors. But they knew how to play the so-called students-athletes charade and made up grades so they could milk Jordan or other athletes for money.

I thought all this was common knowledge. Successful sports teams increase alumni donations to both the athletic department and the university general fund. The more successful the more donations. Sometimes a very successful sports team is the only thing that keep alumni connected to their university. Just because you (or one specific person) did not choose a school partially based on their athletic program does not mean that a huge number of students did not.

I thought all this was common knowledge. Successful sports teams increase alumni donations to both the athletic department and the university general fund. The more successful the more donations. Sometimes a very successful sports team is the only thing that keep alumni connected to their university. Just because you (or one specific person) did not choose a school partially based on their athletic program does not mean that a huge number of students did not.

I'd strongly argue that successful sports teams are also the biggest thing that keeps the voting public connected to universities. You know, the ones who elect the people in charge of the tax purse strings.

So if the athletic department doesn't have to cover the $7.5 million exit fee, how much will that improve the school's academic profile, as opposed to if the academic side of the university got to retain that money? How do we measure that? The debate here isn't whether Syracuse should do away with their big time sports programs. I get that sports are important to a university, that's obvious. But that doesn't justify the athletic department getting their way in every single budget debate. I mean, the academic side of the university also has something to do with the academic profile of the school, I think.

So if the athletic department doesn't have to cover the $7.5 million exit fee, how much will that improve the school's academic profile, as opposed to if the academic side of the university got to retain that money? How do we measure that? The debate here isn't whether Syracuse should do away with their big time sports programs. I get that sports are important to a university, that's obvious. But that doesn't justify the athletic department getting their way in every single budget debate. I mean, the academic side of the university also has something to do with the academic profile of the school, I think.

Oh, I agree that the athletic department should foot the bill, or at least 80-90% of it.

I thought all this was common knowledge. Successful sports teams increase alumni donations to both the athletic department and the university general fund. The more successful the more donations. Sometimes a very successful sports team is the only thing that keep alumni connected to their university. Just because you (or one specific person) did not choose a school partially based on their athletic program does not mean that a huge number of students did not.

Sure, but I think it only helps to a certain extent. And in the cases of many of these schools, you're going to have tons of applicants anyway. I mean, most of the SEC schools are huge public universities - that's going to be a default for many, many students. Like Penn St is for kids from all around PA. Even if they don't intend on going there, most are going to apply.

What I'm not sure about is to what extent - and this is how I read your initial argument - the sports teams raise the profile of the school from an academic standpoint. Yes, Boise St. is now on the map because of its football team. I don't know that anyone thinks of it as a fine academic institution because of it. It's not going to be cracking the US News top 50 anytime soon, I don't think. Schools like Stanford, Duke, Vandy, (Georgetown, GA Tech, UM, etc) are on the list because they have long been well-regarded.

I'd strongly argue that successful sports teams are also the biggest thing that keeps the voting public connected to universities. You know, the ones who elect the people in charge of the tax purse strings.

Private universities (and superrich-ass mayors) FTW.

I live here, so I have watched this happen over the past 20 years (and I despise the team), but the rise of Uconn as a school coincides with their basketball program(s). 20 years ago this was a small, old fashioned campus in the middle of nowhere. Now...well it is still in the middle of nowhere, but the changes are just unreal. Uconn was barely a blip on the radar in my high school, but now everyone at least applied if they live in CT.

How 'Cow College' UConn Became Campus of Champions - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/nyregion/how-cow-college-uconn-became-campus-of-champions.html)

What I'm not sure about is to what extent - and this is how I read your initial argument - the sports teams raise the profile of the school from an academic standpoint. Yes, Boise St. is now on the map because of its football team. I don't know that anyone thinks of it as a fine academic institution because of it. It's not going to be cracking the US News top 50 anytime soon, I don't think. Schools like Stanford, Duke, Vandy, (Georgetown, GA Tech, UM, etc) are on the list because they have long been well-regarded.

Rutgers' football program lucked into the Big Ten, which got the school into the CIC consortium. It's already a pretty strong research institution, but this could (should) knock it up a peg or two over time.

Didn't have many attend SEC schools I gather.

Someone may have, who knows? ;)

We had a few folks go to Penn State, but I don't think it was for the football program. I think one guy went to Boston College and someone went to UVa. More than a few of us when to Rutgers (and that was back when Rutgers was the pits of college football).

I think the only non-BCS conference school I was accepted to that I even halfway considered attending was Pepperdine. That campus was amazing, right above the beaches of Malibu.

I live here, so I have watched this happen over the past 20 years (and I despise the team), but the rise of Uconn as a school coincides with their basketball program(s). 20 years ago this was a small, old fashioned campus in the middle of nowhere. Now...well it is still in the middle of nowhere, but the changes are just unreal. Uconn was barely a blip on the radar in my high school, but now everyone at least applied if they live in CT.

How 'Cow College' UConn Became Campus of Champions - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/nyregion/how-cow-college-uconn-became-campus-of-champions.html)

Ok, UConn is a pretty nice success story. But I think they have a ways to go - even per the article:

UConn officials have said they want to be compared to the University of California, Berkeley, and state universities in Illinois, North Carolina and Virginia. According to the State Department of Higher Education, however, test scores, research spending and other factors place the school in line with schools like Louisiana State University, Rutgers University in New Jersey, and the Universities of Iowa, Massachusetts, Missouri, Nebraska, Tennessee and West Virginia.UConn's primary competition for students comes from Boston College, Boston University, Syracuse University and Rutgers, according to Mr. Austin.

I'd put them at the "solid state schools" level. I don't know why they weren't there before, but I guess in that area there is a lot of competition. But in looking at something like endowment - which is relevant if we're talking donations - it is still FAR behind BC and BU; UConn is listed as having $306M in 2011, compared to $1.2B for BU and $1.76B for BC (Syracuse listed at $914M)*.


* yeah ok, they're private so I guess maybe that's not totally fair

And how much money does it take to guarantee a UConn-like basketball jump? Is it even possible to guarantee such a thing? If the University of Rhode Island goes on a huge basketball run right now, wins a few championships, gets to a bunch of final fours, it will definitely help out all aspects of the school. So how much money should they divert from academics (and/or taxpayers) to get that? Would a $25 million dollar windfall into the athletic program guarantee that kind of jump? That's basically the argument. That these athletic departments should be supported by the schools (and by the taxpayers in the case of public schools), because it can really help out the school as a whole. It's such a tenuous connection though. It seems hiring the right coach gives you the same odds or better.

Seriously. When I applied to schools, I didn't go "hmm, which of these have good football and basketball teams?" I asked "which schools have a high academic profile and are strong in my intended major?" I didn't know Hopkins had a lacrosse team, I wasn't aware of RPI's hockey team, I didn't care about Virginia Tech's football team. Penn? Please. Brown? Ha!*

I knew a lot of smart kids who went to Penn State. It has a good honors program. And! We lived in Pennsylvania! I knew kids who went to E-town, Shippensburg, Muhlenberg, F&M...because they were also relatively close-by. I knew kids who went to Lehigh, Lafayette, Temple, Villanova. A couple went to Towson. A couple to Cornell. I don't think any of them went because of their powerhouse sports teams.

(edit: there was a guy who went to Princeton to wrestle. And I forgot we also had a Yaley (http://www.advancedderm.com/medical-professionals/47/NancyChung.aspx).)

* I admit that I really, really wanted to go to Duke. This was after I visited and realized that holy shit, the campus is gorgeous. And it was despite having hated the Blue Devils in the '80s.

Even something as simple as name recognition is important. I've heard of maybe half those schools. If I'm a guy who doesn't live in your area, but would consider going to school there, I'd probably be more likely to dismiss the schools I haven't heard of. And the only reason I've heard of any of those schools in your 2nd paragraph is sports.

molson, I don't think we can know exactly what impact it has, but take Syracuse as an example. They were a good basketball school when they hired Boeheim and built the Carrier Dome. Then they became a great school. Things were really great for a long time. Then they built the Melo center, one of the premier basketball facilities in the country. Their recruiting has been on another level the last 5 years and it can be directly attributed to the Melo Center.

Why wasn't Boeheim pulling in these players and in the numbers that he has before the Melo center? The title help, sure, but the recruits themselves are awed by the Melo Center. Put Boeheim in a place with no facilities (Rutgers?) and he doesn't have nearly the same success going forward.

So my point, yes you can hire a great coach, but you can't get to that next level, normally, without the buildings.

And how much money does it take to guarantee a UConn-like basketball jump? Is it even possible to guarantee such a thing? If the University of Rhode Island goes on a huge basketball run right now, wins a few championships, gets to a bunch of final fours, it will definitely help out all aspects of the school. So how much money should they divert from academics (and/or taxpayers) to get that? Would a $25 million dollar windfall into the athletic program guarantee that kind of jump? That's basically the argument. That these athletic departments should be supported by the schools (and by the taxpayers in the case of public schools), because it can really help out the school as a whole. It's such a tenuous connection though. It seems hiring the right coach gives you the same odds or better.

RI athletics already gets 17.5 mil a year in subsidies from the university.


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1 (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1)

Even something as simple as name recognition is important. I've heard of maybe half those schools. If I'm a guy who doesn't live in your area, but would consider going to school there, I'd probably be more likely to dismiss the schools I haven't heard of. And the only reason I've heard of any of those schools in your 2nd paragraph is sports.

Well yeah - I don't think that many outside PA or the surrounding area are going to go to schools like Ursinus, or Widener, or Bloomsburg, or East Stroud (or Lock Haven, Kutztown...). But in the area I grew up in - at least at the time - I think you would see more kids looking at those schools than you would Texas, or Georgia, or LSU, or Wisconsin. They'll typically stay local, unless they are looking at the upper-echelon schools. I guess there will be some that escape the local orbit. But I don't know how many right now are thinking "wow - I never thought of Butler before!" for instance.


edit: I'll admit though that like with many things about college, my experience was probably far from the norm. When I looked for schools, I considered applying to Harvey Mudd. I had never heard of them before, and certainly didn't learn of them because of sports.

I think the only non-BCS conference school I was accepted to that I even halfway considered attending was Pepperdine. That campus was amazing, right above the beaches of Malibu.

Being from wonderful Dayton, OH, and attending CJ for those from the area. For those not, it's a private Catholic high school.

We had one girl that went to Pepperdine and some that went the Ivy League. I, too, would like to see where all my classmates ended up. I know that in the program for graduation there was a list of schools that people were awarded scholarships or were attending directly from hs.

I got into a number of schools including Xavier and Marquette, Indiana and Purdue, and my now alma mater (with a 18 yr gap in schooling) ENMU.

Why did they build the Melon Center when the academics were losing money due to funding cuts? Did the center help erase the deficits from the departments?

Why did they build the Melon Center when the academics were losing money due to funding cuts? Did the center help erase the deficits from the departments?

Probably one of those situations where whoever was donating, earmarked that money specifically for that purpose. So you either do what they want or don't and then you don't get that cash.

Why did they build the Melon Center when the academics were losing money due to funding cuts? Did the center help erase the deficits from the departments?

Melo Center? Because Carmelo is the gift that keeps on giving. He made a substantial donation.

Gifting to the university or just athletic department or perhaps to the academic department he graduated from?

Gifting to the university or just athletic department or perhaps to the academic department he graduated from?

He gave to the athletic department. I remember it because it was at the time the largest gift of any athlete like ever. It was like $3m or something crazy.

Will be interesting to see if other conferences follow this method of moving away from network television and focusing on conference network/sports network partnerships.

How ESPN Sets The SEC Network Apart (Even From The Net’s Texas Project) (http://www.mrsec.com/2013/04/how-espn-sets-the-sec-network-apart-even-from-the-nets-texas-project/#more-268690)

Gifting to the university or just athletic department or perhaps to the academic department he graduated from?

He basically told the athletic director, here is $3M, build that practice facility for the basketball team. They said yes and put his name on it.

On a related note, I don't know that any single person has brought so much to a school as Carmelo has. He comes in, wins a title, build a practice center, goes on to be one of the 5 most popular players in the NBA that recruits aspire to be. He wears Cuse gear in commercials instead of Knicks gear. Always talks up Cuse and Boeheim. Gets his jersey retired. Yes, I have a man crush on 'Melo.

On a related note, I don't know that any single person has brought so much to a school as Carmelo has. He comes in, wins a title, build a practice center, goes on to be one of the 5 most popular players in the NBA that recruits aspire to be. He wears Cuse gear in commercials instead of Knicks gear. Always talks up Cuse and Boeheim. Gets his jersey retired. Yes, I have a man crush on 'Melo.

and let himself appear in a "stop snitching" video for drug dealers.

and let himself appear in a "stop snitching" video for drug dealers.

fair tradeoff. :)

Big Ten Conference to realign teams, replace division names with East, West, sources say - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9191768/big-ten-conference-realign-teams-replace-division-names-east-west-sources-say?src=mobile)

Looks like Big Ten will be going to East and West divisions. IU goes to the tougher East division, Purdue to the West.

And Rutgers is once again in the B1G East.

And Rutgers is once again in the B1G East.

:D

SI

Wow, they umm...just decided Wisconsin should win their division every season I guess? Nebraska might steal one ehre and there, but really? Mishitgan MSU, Ohio State and Penn State all in one side of the conference?

Horrible idea.

Richard Jefferson donated 3.5 million to Arizona for a practice facility

Richard Jefferson donated 3.5 million to Arizona for a practice facility

At the time Melo donated, it was considered one of the largest. (http://www.suathletics.com/news/2009/9/24/Melo9.24.09.aspx)

Anthony’s gift represented one of the largest individual donations to Syracuse University Athletics and is also believed to be one of the largest by a current professional athlete to the school they attended.

Hyperbole obviously since Jefferson gave his two years before Melo gave to the Cuse, but the different is maybe that Melo only spent one year at Syracuse and didn't really owe them shit after winning them a title. So to leave, be that young and decide to give money away when a lot of these dudes are blowing it on boats for their dogs was pretty impressive. Not just the size of the gift, but being that young and making such a bold commitment to a school where he was a one-and-done.

Melo has way more money and gave less than Jefferson, but I understand your point. SU worded it to sound better than "Melo gave the second biggest award by an athlete"

Iowas most hated rival stays with us. Thank goodness.