November 2007 Hardware Sales
Nintendo DS -- 1,530,000
Wii -- 981,000
Xbox 360 -- 770,000
PlayStation Portable -- 567,000
PlayStation 2 -- 496,000
PlayStation 3 -- 466,000


November 2007 Software Sales
1. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Xbox 360) -- 1,570,000
2. Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) -- 1,120,000
3. Assassin's Creed (Xbox 360) -- 980,000
4. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PlayStation 2) -- 967,000
5. Wii Play w/ Remote (Wii) -- 564,000
6. Mass Effect (Xbox 360) -- 473,000
7. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PlayStation 3) -- 444,000
8. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Wii) -- 426,000
9. Halo 3 (Xbox 360) -- 387,000
10. Assassin's Creed (PlayStation 3) -- 377,000


http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3165014

PlayStation 2 -- 496,000
PlayStation 3 -- 466,000

lol.

Nintendo continue to amaze me. It's really not even close.

I assume that is US only, or is it worldwide?

That'd be US only, or else PS3 would be higher.

One of my favourite things about these console sale number threads is all the 360 fans and PS3 fans battling it out for which console is a distant second or third best in a race that is being absolutely dominated by Nintendo.

NPD Monthly Console Hardware Sales

Month | 360 | PS3 | Wii
Nov/2005 | 326,000 | |
Dec/2005 | 281,000 | |
Jan/2006 | 250,000 | |
Feb/2006 | 161,000 | |
Mar/2006 | 192,000 | |

Apr/2006 | 295,000 | |

May/2006 | 221,000 | |
Jun/2006 | 277,000 | |
Jul/2006 | 207,000 | |
Aug/2006 | 205,000 | |
Sep/2006 | 259,000 | |
Oct/2006 | 218,000 | |

Nov/2006 | 511,000 | 197,000 | 476,000
Dec/2006 | 1,100,000 | 491,000 | 604,000
Jan/2007 | 294,000 | 244,000 | 436,000
Feb/2007 | 228,000 | 127,000 | 335,000
Mar/2007 | 199,000 | 130,000 | 259,000
Apr/2007 | 174,000 | 82,000 | 360,000
May/2007 | 155,000 | 82,000 | 338,000
Jun/2007 | 198,000 | 99,000 | 382,000
Jul/2007 | 170,000 | 159,000 | 425,000
Aug/2007 | 277,000 | 131,000 | 404,000
Sep/2007 | 528,000 | 119,000 | 501,000
Oct/2007 | 366,000 | 121,000 | 519,000
Nov/2007 | 770,000 | 466,000 | 981,000
Total | 7,862,000 | 2,447,000 | 6,020,000



NPD sales in North America since the 360 launched.

I assume that is US only, or is it worldwide?

Here's the total numbers...........

November Worldwide Totals:

Wii: 1,939,000
PS3: 1,197,000
360: 1,149,000

November North American Totals:

Wii: 981K
360: 770K
PS3: 466K

November Japanese Totals:

Wii: 237K
PS3: 215K
360: 50K

November PAL Totals:

Wii: 721K
PS3: 516K
360: 329K

What is the source of those worldwide numbers?

Fuck the worldwide numbers.

His boss at Sony :P

Nintendo DS :eek:

I wonder how many Wiis Nintendo could have sold without supply constraints.

Nice sales for Super Mario Galaxy, such an awesome game.

I found some non top-10 sales figures, there's a few interesting things. Uncharted kinda bombed.


Guitar Hero III (360) - 367.2K
Mario and Sonic at the Olympics (Wii) - 330k
Rock Band (360) - 312k
Wii Zapper incl. Crossbow Training (Wii) - 232k
Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS) - 226.5K
Lego Star Wars (Wii)- 180k
High School Musical (Wii) - 180k
Resident Evil UC (Wii) - 130k
Uncharted (PS3) - 117k
Crysis (PC) - 86.6k
Rock Band (PS3) - 70k
Ratchet and Clank (PS3) - 67k
FFXII: Revenant Wings (DS) - 48.6K
Zack & Wiki (Wii) - 35k
Unreal Tournament 3 (PC) - 34k
Manhunt 2 (Wii) - 18.5k

Wii: Supply constraints or Deliberate Marketing?

Is it really that freaking hard to open up a few new supply/manufacturing lines? Hell, the DS is often sold out of most all of the colors at any given point in time. Good luck finding a Pink one if you don't get lucky.

I'm getting to the point with Wii that I'm getting close to no longer caring about the system. I'm not foolish to act that this will disrupt Nintendo's master plan, but I haven't seen ONE yet in a normal walk in situation. They've been out for a year. What's going on!

You know what's interesting to me this month? Guitar Hero III for the PS2 and Wii apparently out-sold the 360 and PS3 counterparts, and were Top 10 this month!

How the hell is Wii Zapper considered a game. That's even worse than the lameass "Wii Play" that's not really a game either.

Fuck the worldwide numbers.

That's unfair - I think he's PR, but the worldwide numbers are very interesting. If the PS3 is outselling the 360 worldwide, its worth noting.

You know what's interesting to me this month? Guitar Hero III for the PS2 and Wii apparently out-sold the 360 and PS3 counterparts, and were Top 10 this month!

Not to me - people could use their old GH II guitars on the PS2 - why pay $90 when you can pay $50?

That's unfair - I think he's PR, but the worldwide numbers are very interesting. If the PS3 is outselling the 360 worldwide, its worth noting.

Absolutely. Gaming companies don't care where their money is coming from.

Not to me - people could use their old GH II guitars on the PS2 - why pay $90 when you can pay $50?

Bingo. I have a 360 and a PS3, and I bought GH3 on the PS2.

Wii: Supply constraints or Deliberate Marketing?

Is it really that freaking hard to open up a few new supply/manufacturing lines? Hell, the DS is often sold out of most all of the colors at any given point in time. Good luck finding a Pink one if you don't get lucky.

Before launch I guess they had no idea demand would be this high after what happened with the Nintendo 64 and GameCube. Still, Nintendo has produced more Wiis in it's first year than any other console in history, it just isn't enough.

You know what's interesting to me this month? Guitar Hero III for the PS2 and Wii apparently out-sold the 360 and PS3 counterparts, and were Top 10 this month!

The PS2 numbers aren't surprising, as stated people can use the old guitars. The Wii numbers are surprisingly high, EA has to be regretting not having Wii (and PS2) versions of Rock Band out this holiday season.

PS3 catching up to second place! At this rate it will catch the XBOX 360 in total worldwide sales in approximately 15 years.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3165014


A nice total for Mario Galaxy and even more encouraging to see GH3 for the Wii with some good 3P sales numbers. The COD numbers are surprising to me but maybe I just haven't been paying close enough attention.

{Nintendo fanboy gloat}Oh, and btw, the DS sells fairly well. How's that handheld gaming "battle" with the PSP going? What, you mean Nintendo isn't just fluff and kiddie stuff that will roll over whenever someone enters the market, particularly half assed, at best?{/Nintendo fanboy gloat}

You know what's interesting to me this month? Guitar Hero III for the PS2 and Wii apparently out-sold the 360 and PS3 counterparts, and were Top 10 this month!

I can't remember- were all versions released the same day or was it staggered?

SI

That's unfair - I think he's PR, but the worldwide numbers are very interesting. If the PS3 is outselling the 360 worldwide, its worth noting.

However, it is not. Just this one month in which a price drop saw a surge in sales of people waiting for it.

Off the top of my head I think that the launch of the PS3 was the last time that it did outsell the 360 in worldwide sales.

-- Steve --

A nice total for Mario Galaxy and even more encouraging to see GH3 for the Wii with some good 3P sales numbers. The COD numbers are surprising to me but maybe I just haven't been paying close enough attention.

{Nintendo fanboy gloat}Oh, and btw, the DS sells fairly well. How's that handheld gaming "battle" with the PSP going? What, you mean Nintendo isn't just fluff and kiddie stuff that will roll over whenever someone enters the market, particularly half assed, at best?{/Nintendo fanboy gloat}



I can't remember- were all versions released the same day or was it staggered?

SI

December is generally double November, 3m DS Lites sold next month would be amazing. I think it will pass the PS2 eventually.

GH3 came out the same day for all platforms.

These threads are always so funny.

1) Second place is huge, especially to Sony. The Wii is going to win the war. There isn't any doubt about that anymore. But I think the 360 and PS3 will still sell more software in the long run and second is critical to that.

2) I keep saying it, but it keeps being true: MS cared about the American market far more than any other market. They spent money marketing in Japan, but they knew they weren't carving out a lot of market share there. The PAL terrirories are dissapointing to MS, but they aren't crying over them either.

3) With that said, the US numbers have to be frightening for Sony. They cut the price of the PS3 and are still over 300k behind the 360 in US sales. That's close to devastating. If they can't close the US gap, they have no chance of catching the 360 in worldwide sales. It's what Daimyo pointed out. You are talking about an incredible ass kicking here. As of last month, the PS3 had to outsell the 360 by 300k a month for three years to catch up. 50k isn't going to cut it. And that 50k number will probably lower.

That's just painful for Sony. No matter how they try to spin it, this is getting worse by the month.

I wonder what you get when you divide all these numbers?

I wonder what you get when you divide all these numbers?

42

I wonder what you get when you divide all these numbers?

2/3

42

2/3


42=2/3

Life makes so much more sense now. I wish I had known that sooner, I could have been a millionaire.

BTW, I was one of those DS buyers in November. Got the gold one with Zelda for the daughter. She had wanted a pink one, but she really liked the Gold when she saw it, so since it came with a game we went for that. If I had known pink was hard to find I would have grabbed a couple for EBay.

Also, the wife informs me she wants to buy a PS3 in the spring. We have a 360 but I won't argue. It will be our second PS3. We got one earlier this year and returned it unopened after a month. I never opened it because I didn't see any games worth playing.

42

Correct answer. :D

I guess Sony is finally getting on board with the whole "DLC value card at retail bit."

They sent me a Christmas card today with a $20 PlayStation Network card in there. Now I just gotta figure out what to use it on.

BTW, I was one of those DS buyers in November. Got the gold one with Zelda for the daughter. She had wanted a pink one, but she really liked the Gold when she saw it, so since it came with a game we went for that. If I had known pink was hard to find I would have grabbed a couple for EBay.

Are the pinks(Coral) really that hard to find? At last check my store still has 5. And we've had at least that many in stock for forever.


Question for anyone that knows: Whats the hardware/chip/whatever difference in the 399 PS3 and the older 60&80gb PS3s besides the 60&80s ability to do emulation of PS2?

Are the 399s any step up in design and reliability like the new 360 on the shelves are?

Are the pinks(Coral) really that hard to find? At last check my store still has 5. And we've had at least that many in stock for forever.



I don't see them all the time, but I see them fairly often when I am in the electronics section of stores where I live. The post above, and posts I have read over the months, make it seem like it is super hard to find.

I know last Christmas is was super hard to find with lots of people wanting them.

How the hell is Wii Zapper considered a game. That's even worse than the lameass "Wii Play" that's not really a game either.

It is a "peripheral" (a dumb one) that has a pack-in game. Yes, the pack-in game is actually a game. So is Wii Play. It's not worse than Wii Play though because the Zapper is horrible and worthless while the Wii Remote that comes with Wii Play is almost a necessity (meaning that more people are buying the Zapper for the pack-in game than are buying Wii Play for the game itself--making the sales number more meaningful for software sales).

Last Christmas the pink was ridiculously scarce. This year, we have more pinks in stock than any other color, although a week before Christmas, all four are in stock.

Nintendo did a great job with build-up on supply there.

My daughter has a DS and I have a PSP

I can't stand the DS and I love the PSP. Again, Nintendo wins the kids but not the adults.

Super Mario Galaxy was complete crap. I have no clue how games like that garner 98% ratings and the such.

I really don't understand how Nintendo does it. We have a Wii and I think it is a piece of crap as I've mentioned before. My daughter likes it, but she actually likes her gamecube games more.

For example, she likes Mario Party GC better then Marior Party Wii. She likes Super Mario Strikers GC more the Super Mario Strikers on Wii.

The controller scheme is crap.

Are the pinks(Coral) really that hard to find? At last check my store still has 5. And we've had at least that many in stock for forever.


Question for anyone that knows: Whats the hardware/chip/whatever difference in the 399 PS3 and the older 60&80gb PS3s besides the 60&80s ability to do emulation of PS2?

Are the 399s any step up in design and reliability like the new 360 on the shelves are?

The 40 GB PS3s has improved bluetooth so the controllers don't randomly disconnect from the console as often. But yeah, you lose backwards compatibility.

I don't think reliability was ever a concern with the console, unlike the 360.

From a conference call/interview with Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime-

Regarding shortages
The fact of the matter is that this shortfall benefits no-one. Enough systems would make everyone, including me, much happier. We’re taking steps that we hope will alleviate frustration, at least for some consumers. Along with the retailer GameStop, we’re announcing a rain check program that will guarantee consumers can get a Wii after Christmas. Consumers who purchase an out of stock Wii on December 20th or 21st with a full payment of $249.99 will receive a Wii raincheck certificate while supplies last. This certificate guarantees them a Wii system some time in January. These Wii systems must be picked up by January 29th.

On the userbase
Our internal research shows that the average age of all Wii players is 29 years old. On the other hand, the vast majority of these people who’ve purchased a system are, so far, active or "core" players. They’re the ones willing to wait in line outside of retailers before dawn. So we’re only seeing a small tip of the iceberg in terms of actually selling systems to those expanded players.

On Super Mario Galaxy and software sales
I find it hard to believe that almost a 1.2 million unit sell-through could be in any way disappointing. The fact is this: we sold over six million pieces of software for the Wii system during the month of November. If you look at it strictly on that month basis, that’s over a 6-to-1 attach, which is very, very strong. The level of sell-through of software pushed up our overall attach rate to above the level of PS2 at the same time in its life cycle. So the facts are these: that consumers are buying software, they’re buying software consistent with historical measures and that is phenomenal, given our push toward an expanded audience. So as we sit here today, we are quite satisfied with the level of software sell-through, we expect December to be another strong month and specifically as far as Super Mario Galaxy, a game that last time I checked was scored about a 97 on Metacritic, and is nip and tuck for one of the best-rated games of the year. We are tremendously satisfied with the performance of that title.

I can't wait for the first YouTube video of some kids getting an IOU for a Wii on Christmas morning :D

The software tie ratio is pretty interesting as well.

That software Tie rate is bullshit if they consider Wii Zapper and Wii Play to actually be "software."

Again, the Wii Zapper is basically a game with a piece of plastic to hold your wii-mote in. It is much more software than Wii Play (which is closer to a free game with your extra wii-mote).

I didn't realize the pink DSs were scarce. Last Christmas I wanted to get a DS for my mother-in-law and pink was the ONLY color I could find anywhere!

That's unfair - I think he's PR, but the worldwide numbers are very interesting. If the PS3 is outselling the 360 worldwide, its worth noting.

Last month, the 360 had a worldwide sales lead of roughly 300K units. I think a shift of 350K units to where the PS3 now has a monthly lead of 50K units is certainly of note. As TroyF mentioned, 50K a month isn't going to win the war, but it's a move in the right direction for Sony.

The Wii situation has to be extremely frustrating for Nintendo. A shortage last year was understandable. A shortage this year is unacceptable. This is the year they should be cashing in on the hype by selling Wii's at what is still a high retail price. Instead, they can't keep units on the shelves. That's no longer a demand issue, that's poor planning by a very large company that should have handled this much better. They're going to make plenty of money, but they could have made MUCH more.

What is the source of those worldwide numbers?

Media Create/Famitsu do the Japanese numbers. VGChartz compiles the sales numbers from the various PAL countries to create a composite number for that region.

Last month, the 360 had a worldwide sales lead of roughly 300K units. I think a shift of 350K units to where the PS3 now has a monthly lead of 50K units is certainly of note. As TroyF mentioned, 50K a month isn't going to win the war, but it's a move in the right direction for Sony.

The Wii situation has to be extremely frustrating for Nintendo. A shortage last year was understandable. A shortage this year is unacceptable. This is the year they should be cashing in on the hype by selling Wii's at what is still a high retail price. Instead, they can't keep units on the shelves. That's no longer a demand issue, that's poor planning by a very large company that should have handled this much better. They're going to make plenty of money, but they could have made MUCH more.

They don't need moves in the right direction, they need to start getting their market share back, ESPECIALLY in the US market. I don't care what anyone says about worldwide numbers, they all sell the same, blah, blah, blah. If you are third in the US market selling 300k less consoles than SECOND place, you are doomed for failure.

Yeah, it's worth nothing that Sony actually started selling consoles in Japan, a market they expected to seel this way a year ago when the console was released. But they are still in a horrific spot now.

They don't need moves in the right direction, they need to start getting their market share back, ESPECIALLY in the US market. I don't care what anyone says about worldwide numbers, they all sell the same, blah, blah, blah. If you are third in the US market selling 300k less consoles than SECOND place, you are doomed for failure.

Yeah, it's worth nothing that Sony actually started selling consoles in Japan, a market they expected to seel this way a year ago when the console was released. But they are still in a horrific spot now.

I generally find it amusing that no one in the October thread would buy into my statement that the PS3 would outsell the 360 in worldwide sales. Not one. Crazy talk. Now that it's happened, it's just a blip on the radar. An anomoly. Fair enough.

Wow. Are you telling me the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 by 10 million units last month?

Or are you banking on a potential one-month anomaly yourself to make you "right"?

I generally find it amusing that no one in the October thread would buy into my statement that the PS3 would outsell the 360 in worldwide sales. Not one. Crazy talk. Now that it's happened, it's just a blip on the radar. An anomoly. Fair enough.

I could go back and look, but if I recall correctly the reason you predicted it was because of a lot of one time events. One time events don't equal a trend. Not to mention it was a very small amount. When you need multiple one time events to get 2nd place by a nose, you may have a problem.

Anytime Microsoft had a price drop in Japan, the sales went up for a little bit. Or when DOA3 came out, there was a sales spike. None of it lasted. One time events happen, and they don't win or lose the war. It just doesn't work that way.

-- Steve --

I generally find it amusing that no one in the October thread would buy into my statement that the PS3 would outsell the 360 in worldwide sales. Not one. Crazy talk. Now that it's happened, it's just a blip on the radar. An anomoly. Fair enough.

Actually, everyone agreed there could be a blip this month, but everyone argued against your statement that they would catch up by 2009. Which involved them outselling the 360 by 300K+ per month. Which did NOT happen this month.

Price is still a major barrier when it comes to mass consumer electronics. Sony has made the adjustments they need to make in order to make the PS3 competitive. The question is, when is Microsoft going to respond aggressively to counteract Sony's moves.

I'm sure the Home & Entertainment division has been ecstatic about finally posting profits with the gaming division, but I can't imagine they're so short-sighted as to not see that this is just a nice battle victory, but the war itself is far from over. The major money in this business, at least for the business models that Sony and MS are using, is in the license fees they get for every game sold on their platforms. Yeah, eventually in the life cycle the cost of the parts drops below the price drops on selling the hardware and they no longer lose money in that front, but that's secondary to building a huge install base of units and reaping the rewards of millions and millions of games sold for that platform and the licensing fees rolling in.

While Microsoft may be ecstatic about the many many missteps Sony has made in this generation of the console wars, they are also making mistakes themselves in not taking greater advantage of the gifts they've been given by Sony.

I'd bet that they are confident they have a strong enough lineup of games and momentum that they will keep their current pricing through this holiday season, but I would expect that in the new year they will drop their prices and try to slow/reverse the momentum Sony has gotten from their price cuts.

That software Tie rate is bullshit if they consider Wii Zapper and Wii Play to actually be "software."

FWIW the Zapper counts as an accessory despite coming with a game that people seem to like more than the hunk of plastic it comes with. Wii Play counts as a game despite most people buying it since it comes with a Wiimote. Wii Sports doesn't count though, despite being the reason many people bought the Wii.

Current gen console tie ratios I found on NeoGAF if anyone cares:

PS3 - 4.01
Wii - 3.86 (as stated, Wii Sports not included)
360 - 6.85
360 (at this point last year, negating the one year head start) - 5.2

The Wii actually had higher software sales in the US during it's first year than the 360, it's just that the hardware sales are so much higher that it lags in the tie-ratio.

Last gen approximations-

PS2 ~ 13, Xbox ~ 10, GameCube ~ 8

So is the scarcity of the Wii a marketting strategy? Or are they just unable to keep up with demand?

I can see intentional market scarcity being a boon at launch with the media buzz and all. I don't get intentionally throwing away sales that would be booked in huge numbers more than a year after release.

I say this, as last weekend I sat out infront of a Toys R Us for 2 hours in freezing temperatures to get my kids a Wii for Christmas.

I think at this point, it's a combination of stubbornness and bad contracts (i.e. they don't want to change how their supply chain works). I can't think anyone at Nintendo is happy about shortages that are costing them literally millions of units this Christmas, when they could be making a huge sales dent.

SI

11 people sitting outside Best Buy at 12:30 in the morning when I left work. Craziness.

Target here gave out word that they would have 54 this morning.

They open at 8:00. I wasn't planning on fighting the line, but I woke up at 7:00 and I figured I'd go for shits and giggles and see if there were any tickets left.

I talked to a guy in the parking lot that was there at 1:30...

He got number 21.

Good god, just not worth it for me.

Actually, everyone agreed there could be a blip this month, but everyone argued against your statement that they would catch up by 2009. Which involved them outselling the 360 by 300K+ per month. Which did NOT happen this month.

I can throw up a few posts if you want of people who thought there was no way that the PS3 would pass the 360 this month. If you agreed that the PS3 would pass the 360 this month, you were the only one. I never said they would outsell them by 300K this month worldwide.

You know what is really crazy? look at November games sales in Spain:

Total
WWE SMACKDOWN! VS. RAW 2008 (PS2)
PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER 2008 (PS2)
ASSASSIN'S CREED (PS3)
SUPER MARIO GALAXY (WII)
CALL OF DUTY 4: MODERN WARFARE (PS3)
MAS BRAIN TRAINING (NDS)
WWE SMACKDOWN! VS. RAW 2008 (PSP)
DRAGON BALL Z: BUDOKAI TENKAICHI 3 (PS2)
IMAGINA SER MAMA (NDS)
PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER 2008 (PS3)
WTF??? a Wrestling game outselling a soccer game?? This country is going nohere :D

Seriously now, wrestling is becoming huge all the sudden in Spain. We had no have wrestling in TV since the 80's with Hulk Hogan, the Ultimate Warrior etc. Past a year a new TV company brought it back again and it's becoming the most watched show by kids in Spain.

Now on a note more related to the thread title, notice not any 360 game in the top 10 list, Microsoft is doing nothing here, this is clearly Sony territory as has always been, with Nintendo getting close.

Wow. Are you telling me the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 by 10 million units last month?

Or are you banking on a potential one-month anomaly yourself to make you "right"?

I didn't say they'd outsell them by 10M units this month. Link? I said they would pass the 360 in 2009.

I disagree that it will be a one month anomoly. The PS3 will outsell the 360 worldwide in December as well. Microsoft has a problem in Europe right now in regard to worldwide sales. They are getting beat soundly with the sales numbers in Europe now reaching levels similar to North America. Wii supply problems are also evident in N/A. The Wii is at a crisis point right now. They are giving away crucial sales because of their supply shortage. Their at the point where they risk losing customers who simply stop looking for Wii's. Judging from Japanese Wii sales, it appears that they are receiving more Wii's, thereby hurting supply in other regions. PS3 needs a Japan boost with Gran Tursmo coming this week.

Here are the early sales numbers already in for the first week in December:

Worldwide:

Wii: 691K
PS3: 417K
360: 414K

North America:

360: 256K
Wii: 239K
PS3: 160K

Europe:

Wii: 336K
PS3: 221K
360: 149K

Japan:

Wii: 116K
PS3: 37K
360: 9K

...The Wii is at a crisis point right now...

:D :D :D :D :D

Dude that tin-foil hat you're wearing is way too tight.

:D :D :D :D :D

Dude that tin-foil hat you're wearing is way too tight.

Nintendo has some major issues. They could easily sell 600-700K units a WEEK if they weren't supply constrained like they are right now. It's Economics 101 that you don't want to supply constrain a market for this length of time. At some point, consumers begin looking at other alternatives with a realization that they won't be able to get that product. With the 360 and PS3 having lower prices, they're a viable alternative for roughly the same price.

The problem is that for a lot of people looking for a Wii there are no other alternatives. There just isn't anything else like it on the market right now.

Nintendo has some major issues. They could easily sell 600-700K units a WEEK if they weren't supply constrained like they are right now. It's Economics 101 that you don't want to supply constrain a market for this length of time. At some point, consumers begin looking at other alternatives with a realization that they won't be able to get that product. With the 360 and PS3 having lower prices, they're a viable alternative for roughly the same price.
While Nintendo potentially could be doing better, "Crisis Point" is certainly a bit extreme..

Even you can see that, can't you?

It is clear that they are sinking. This is a company in trouble. They have sold out their console in every store for over a year now. If it isn't obvious they are going down, I don't know how to make it more clear.

Guess its time for me to go bury my Wii in the backyard and wait for the inevitable collapse of the Wii market. Y2K was just the start, we're going to need Charlie Steiner to lead us out of this mess.

Nintendo has some major issues. They could easily sell 600-700K units a WEEK if they weren't supply constrained like they are right now. It's Economics 101 that you don't want to supply constrain a market for this length of time. At some point, consumers begin looking at other alternatives with a realization that they won't be able to get that product. With the 360 and PS3 having lower prices, they're a viable alternative for roughly the same price.

I would still take the supply constrained Wii sales numbers to the PS3 (or 360) no constraint sales numbers. All the supply numbers are doing are making this an ass kicking rather than an ass whooping. That isn't so bad.

I actually see the point that Mizzou is making about the Wii.

I'm on the Wii bandwagon. I'm not in the market for a PS3 or a 360. I only bought a PS2 after the PS3 came out. I really have no business in this thread.

I think Mizzou has a point...I'm not sure I'd call it a crisis, but Nintendo has actually driven some customers off. I know because I was faced with being unable to buy a Wii, and was very close to making the 360/PS3 shift. I know I'm not alone in wanting to buy my kids a game console, by allowing it to become SO hard to buy a Wii Nintendo is opening themselves up to not only losing a sale, but in driving up the sales numbers for the competition. How much it is costing them is debatable, but the fact that they have dropped the ball, and that it IS costing them shouldn't be.

Driving a few customers isn't going to be that big of a deal, and they have tried increasing their output. It isn't as if you can just throw up a new manufacturing plant whenever you want to. I think the hype that is generated by the shortage gains customers anyway, so it probably balances out.

Still trying to figure out why some people care so much about who is #1, 2, or 3 unless you work for that company......

Even then, nobody is losing a job over this soon.

I think I mentioned this in another thread before, Toys R Us. They are selling them on sundays. The local one to me had 102 today, I got in line at 715, and I was #59.

Still trying to figure out why some people care so much about who is #1, 2, or 3 unless you work for that company......

Playing "armchair CEO" isn't all that much different from playing "armchair Quarter Back". Rather than having WRs, DEs and gameplans, we have CEOs, PR-people and economics. Seems reasonable that some set of people that like doing one would like doing the other as well.

My daughter has a DS and I have a PSP

I can't stand the DS and I love the PSP. Again, Nintendo wins the kids but not the adults.

Super Mario Galaxy was complete crap. I have no clue how games like that garner 98% ratings and the such.

I really don't understand how Nintendo does it. We have a Wii and I think it is a piece of crap as I've mentioned before. My daughter likes it, but she actually likes her gamecube games more.

For example, she likes Mario Party GC better then Marior Party Wii. She likes Super Mario Strikers GC more the Super Mario Strikers on Wii.

The controller scheme is crap.

I've been wondering about my Wii purchase since it is sitting around until Christmas... and this post made me feel a bit worried.

Then I saw who posted it, and now I feel great about it!

I actually see the point that Mizzou is making about the Wii.

I'm on the Wii bandwagon. I'm not in the market for a PS3 or a 360. I only bought a PS2 after the PS3 came out. I really have no business in this thread.

I think Mizzou has a point...I'm not sure I'd call it a crisis, but Nintendo has actually driven some customers off. I know because I was faced with being unable to buy a Wii, and was very close to making the 360/PS3 shift. I know I'm not alone in wanting to buy my kids a game console, by allowing it to become SO hard to buy a Wii Nintendo is opening themselves up to not only losing a sale, but in driving up the sales numbers for the competition. How much it is costing them is debatable, but the fact that they have dropped the ball, and that it IS costing them shouldn't be.

Here's an article detailing just how much it is costing. Estimates top $1 billion dollars in addition to the 8% loss in stock value in just one month's time...............

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8349&Itemid=2

Analysts: Wii Drought to Cost Nintendo $1 bln

By Tom Ivan

A number of analysts suggest that Nintendo’s inability to meet Wii demand is set to cost the platform holder in excess of $1 billion this holiday, while Nintendo’s marketing VP admits supply shortages are a “worry”.

It’s no secret that Nintendo is failing to adequately stock retail channels with enough Wii units despite pumping out 1.8 million systems on a monthly basis, but as the New York Times reports, shortages mean Nintendo is set to lose more than just face.

While Nintendo's Wii has been the bestselling home console in the US every month this year, except during September when a Halo 3-driven Xbox 360 narrowly edged it out, the Kyoto-based company is failing to fully capitalize on the system’s popularity.

Nintendo sold 981,000 Wii units in the US during November according to the NPD Group, but according to James Lin, senior analyst at the MDB Capital Group in Santa Monica, Calif., “they could easily sell double what they’re selling.” Along with other industry analysts and retailers, Lin believes Nintendo could be set to lose out on more than $1billion this holiday, not including missed revenue opportunies from associated software sales that won't materialize.

While Nintendo of America’s senior vice president of marketing says he doesn’t believe Nintendo’s “made any mistakes” when it comes to gauging demand, he admits consumers may turn their heads towards other systems if they can’t get hold of a Wii.

“We do worry about not satisfying consumers and that they will drift to a competitor’s system,” George Harrison said.

Sony CEO Howard Stringer is one interested observer who’s pleased with the Wii shortages. “I’m happy that the Wii seems to be running out of hardware,” he noted earlier this week. During November Sony’s PS3 outsold the Wii in Japan over a four week period for the first time since the systems launched late last year.

As previously reported, Nintendo shares have dropped by eight percent since November, having risen five-fold during the two years prior. Wii shortages and a resurgent PS3 are two factors that leave the immediate future of Nintendo’s stock hanging in the balance.

Nintendo does look pretty inept for not being able to ramp up production to meet demand in over a year's time. Perhaps they were used to their consoles not selling for crap and are still too stunned to respond! ;)

Here's an article detailing just how much it is costing. Estimates top $1 billion dollars in addition to the 8% loss in stock value in just one month's time...............



This might just be me, but I find that wording to be misleading. Nintendo must still be making plenty of money, but they are leaving potential revenue on the table by not having a large enough supply. With all of the business analysis happening in this thread, using the word "cost" in this way seems wrong. Also, it should be noted that these aren't lost sales, but delayed sales. Surely some of the sales will be lost as potential customers get less interested after the holidays, but many (most?) of these sales will still happen...just not this holiday season.

1) Nintendo is at a "crisis point" OMG, I haven't laughed that hard in years. Thanks Mizzou. Yeah, it's incredible how fast Nintendo is going under. They released their console at the same time as the PS3 and a year later continue to double it in worldwide sales, a number that increases each month.

2) You do realize that "cost" Nintendo 1 billion is like the government saying Medicare is getting "cut," don't you? In the case of Medicare getting cut, it doesn't mean less money is coming in, it means the rate increase will drop. Same thing for Nintendo here. Yeah, they would certainly rather meet demand. Who wouldn't? But they are still selling every console they make. They are selling almost every DS they put out there. And the "cost" in this case will be made up by many consumers still buying the product. They may lose a few people to this, but most people are going to pick one up when they see it out there.

3) The 360 vs. PS3 debate is almost as funny. Sony gets a 50k win in worldwide numbers and now MS is at a crisis point. Ummmmm, no, they aren't. Sony isn't going to beat the 360 by sneaking out 50k wins during the holiday season. As less consoles are sold throughout the rest of the year, Sony isn't going to make up any ground at all. The weekly numbers I've seen had the PS3 beating the 360 by about 3k units worldwide the first week of December. You say that the PS3 will catch the 360 worldwide by '09?

How do you see the PS3 beating the 360 by an average of over 300k a month over the next 24 months? At what point is PS3 fever going to kick in and send everyone flying to the stores?

The PS3 has a loaded lineup coming out next year, but I don't think it's loaded enough to assume it's going to start outselling MS by that many units next holiday season. And MS doesn't exactly have a "weak" lineup scheduled for next year either.

That brings up another point. The next big PS3 release is going to be in early March, correct? GTHD and The Show. Followed by Little Big Planet in April (I'm really looking forward to that one) In reality, we even take off another couple of months. The PS3 isn't going to start outselling the 360 by that many units until it gets some exclusives people have to have. We can pretty much knock off another quarter of a year until the PS3 exclusives kick in. Now we jump to, what, 350k a month for 20 months?

Maybe it'll happen, but I have a tough time seeing how.

I've been wondering about my Wii purchase since it is sitting around until Christmas... and this post made me feel a bit worried.

Then I saw who posted it, and now I feel great about it!

Thanks Butter! I'm glad I could bring some christmas cheer.

On a serious note though, the wand aspect of the Wii, is what she dislikes. I'm Mario Strikers for Wii, you have to use the wand on the screen to block balls. It can be hard for younger kids 5 about to be 6 to do this.

If you have a wall mountable big screen TV, the pointer device is pretty difficult for kids to use. Even starting here old Gamecube games is difficult. You have to point over that area on the screen. The problem is the TV is taller then she is.

Maybe it'll happen, but I have a tough time seeing how.

I'll avoid quoting everything to keep the thread clutter down. Nintendo is having severe issues right now and even the executives had publicly made statements in that regard. Just because they are selling every unit they make does not mean that they are not botching the situation badly. All products have a limited window of sales. Having a shortage on a product during a time where they should have a full supply and be selling 2X or 3X the number of units that they're currently selling is a major screw up. They're missing out on major revenue streams. They have to hope that they'll make up the difference in gift card redemptions, but there are no signs that they'll be able to resolve this supply issue anytime soon. Investors are showing their displeasure by selling off Nintendo stock. Stock price is a major bellweather of a company's health.

In your list of games for the spring, you made a small omission of Metal Gear Solid 4. It's now an April release.

I'm certainly not the only one that believes that the PS3 will surpass the 360 in 2009. Obviously, that's going to take some time to resolve itself. For the short term, we'll have to look to see if Sony can continue to make headway worldwide. If they can push that worldwide lead out from the roughly 50K that they had this month, it would be a good sign that price break wasn't the only driving factor in the November PS3 sales boost.

One issue console manufacturers have to deal with is how much production to have. One of the worst situations you can be in is ramping up a fab, only to meet all demand quickly and then have the fab sitting idle. Nintendo has one of the fastest selling consoles EVER, but at that clip even they have to be wondering when it will stop. It's a balancing act, that's for sure.

One issue console manufacturers have to deal with is how much production to have. One of the worst situations you can be in is ramping up a fab, only to meet all demand quickly and then have the fab sitting idle. Nintendo has one of the fastest selling consoles EVER, but at that clip even they have to be wondering when it will stop. It's a balancing act, that's for sure.

Sony had that problem when the PS3 first came out. They had a pretty heavy supply that sat around for awhile. That certainly wasn't a good thing either. I don't think that supply constraint is a bad thing when a system is first released or during its first holiday season. But this is the second holiday season for the Wii and there's not a single soul that didn't know that this kind of demand was going to occur. I'm sure Nintendo wants to make sure the manufacturing process is up to snuff, but there had to be a way to resolve this issue knowing that it was coming months in advance.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/12/november-npd-numbers.html

The conclusion from the article (and you should read it to see how he came to the conclusion):

So, at the end of the rabbit hole, I think it's reasonable to estimate January sales for the PS3 at 186,000 units, plus or minus 15%.

And for Sony, that's a problem. Yes, 186,000 units a month is a huge boost for them, but that will leave them a distant third in the U.S. market. The 360 outsold the PS3 by 304,000 units in November--that's crushing. And that's with a price cut for the PS3 and all the initial hoopla and promotion.

Thanks Butter! I'm glad I could bring some christmas cheer.

On a serious note though, the wand aspect of the Wii, is what she dislikes. I'm Mario Strikers for Wii, you have to use the wand on the screen to block balls. It can be hard for younger kids 5 about to be 6 to do this.

If you have a wall mountable big screen TV, the pointer device is pretty difficult for kids to use. Even starting here old Gamecube games is difficult. You have to point over that area on the screen. The problem is the TV is taller then she is.

Put your sensor bar under the TV. You don't have to aim at the TV at all to use the pointing device. The remote just has to be able to "see" the sensor bar.

"Stock price is a major bellweather of a company's health."

yes, and an 8% drop after a 500% increase in 2 years is really a "crisis"

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2007/12/november-npd-numbers.html

The conclusion from the article (and you should read it to see how he came to the conclusion):

Once again, Bill is only analyzing the North American market in his console posts.

Regarding his analysis, it certainly is an interesting read, but I'm not sure that it relates to the current market all that much. We've never had a console market where two consoles that are not bleeding-edge (Wii and PS2) were doing so well against higher-end consoles. This is a whole new situation we're dealing with. We're literally writing new economic case analysis as we go along in regards to this console battle.

We've never had a console market where two consoles that are not bleeding-edge (Wii and PS2) were doing so well against higher-end consoles.



This is the same sort of backwards thinking thats causing MS/Sony to get their asses kicked. The Wii IS on the bleeding edge of technology. Just not processor speed. Its the first console since NES to fundamentaly change the way people interact with video games. Thats bleeding edge.


People don't care about processor speed.


Your point is valid though, as this doesn't fit current case studies. We've also never seen a console sell as well as the Wii, while hitting its "caps" essentially.

If the first week's numbers are right, they aren't pushing the lead out at all, the 50k advantage would be 12k for the month.

Saying "I'm not the only one who thinks the PS3 will catch the 360" doesn't really do anything for me. There are more than one person who believe in the Easter Bunny too, it doesn't mean he's hopping through my door with eggs for me this spring.

I think the assumptions are based on three things:

1) People still think Sony is top dog and are still stunned by how far they've fallen with this launch. (they HAVE to make it up, don't they?)

2) People think the strong lineup of games will swing the momentum in Sony's favor and MS will back away.

3) People are taking high amounts of cough syrup.

Again, we'll see how it develops, but I don't see it. The 360 isn't going to throw up their hands and say "Awww, damnit, FF has been released, well, let's sell our remaining stock for scrap and close our video game department down. We gave it a shot." Sony has it figured out now. They have the pricing better, they have better commercials, they aren't making a jack ass comment every other day. But that doesn't mean they are headed for 300k a month sales wins over the next 24 months either.

As for Nintendo, give it a rest. I'm serious on this. Anyone who tries to make it look like Nintendo is in a crisis mode is kidding themselves. (or are hitting that worldwide cough syrup total)

They are fine. Repeat after me: They are just fine. The company is making money hand over fist. They are selling everything they put out. DS, WII, Mario Galaxy, whatever. . .

On January 3, 2007, Nintendo closed the day with their stock price at $32.44. As the market closed on Friday, their stock was at $72.44

They've lost about $5 a share in the last couple of weeks with some idiots dropping off board and probably some people thinking the stock has peaked, but the growth rate in their stock will sitll be over 100% this year. (just a quick FYI, that's kinda good)

Somehow, I think Nintendo is gonna come out of this ok.

"Stock price is a major bellweather of a company's health."

yes, and an 8% drop after a 500% increase in 2 years is really a "crisis"

Fine, if you don't like the term 'crisis', pick another one if you're hung up on that term. Nintendo shouldn't be dealing with lost revenue and falling stock prices at this point in the life cycle of the Wii.

Also, your use of percentages in regard to the stock prices is fuzzy at best. That 8% loss is a percentage of total stock price lost. A better way of stating it is stating that roughly 50% of that 500% gain was lost in one month. That's a major stock price hit and is awfully scary if you're an investor who thought your company had a 'can't miss' product on their hands. The truth is that they do have a 'can't miss' product on their hands, but it isn't going to do nearly as well if you can't meet the demand.

Fine, if you don't like the term 'crisis', pick another one if you're hung up on that term. Nintendo shouldn't be dealing with lost revenue and falling stock prices at this point in the life cycle of the Wii.

And Sony shouldn't be dealing with 3rd place at this point in the life cycle of the PS3. But that doesn't stop you from predicting great things ahead for them.

Some day you'll realise that you use one argument in one case, and then go exactly the opposite to debate a different point. Some day.

Fine, if you don't like the term 'crisis', pick another one if you're hung up on that term. Nintendo shouldn't be dealing with lost revenue and falling stock prices at this point in the life cycle of the Wii.

Also, your use of percentages in regard to the stock prices is fuzzy at best. That 8% loss is a percentage of total stock price lost. A better way of stating it is stating that roughly 50% of that 500% gain was lost in one month. That's a major stock price hit and is awfully scary if you're an investor who thought your company had a 'can't miss' product on their hands. The truth is that they do have a 'can't miss' product on their hands, but it isn't going to do nearly as well if you can't meet the demand.


Here's a metaphor:

Saying Nintendo has a crisis right now is like saying the Patriots have an offensive crisis right now because Kyle Brady is hurt.


yeah, Nintendo is losing potential sales right now, but they're still outselling everyone by a huge margin.

Don't forget, in January, when the PS3/360 numbers drop back down into normal ranges, the Wii won't. They'll keep selling every single piece of hardware they can put together. The stock prices will go back up.


Seriously, the stock price dropping is a very nice opportunity to make some cash.

Somehow, I think Nintendo is gonna come out of this ok.

I agree that they'll be financially fine. But they're going to be kicking themselves in the ass over just how much more they could have made. That isn't sitting well with investors or the Nintendo execs as has been made plainly clear in recent articles.

Fine, if you don't like the term 'crisis', pick another one if you're hung up on that term. Nintendo shouldn't be dealing with lost revenue and falling stock prices at this point in the life cycle of the Wii.

Also, your use of percentages in regard to the stock prices is fuzzy at best. That 8% loss is a percentage of total stock price lost. A better way of stating it is stating that roughly 50% of that 500% gain was lost in one month. That's a major stock price hit and is awfully scary if you're an investor who thought your company had a 'can't miss' product on their hands. The truth is that they do have a 'can't miss' product on their hands, but it isn't going to do nearly as well if you can't meet the demand.

OK, I'll try:

"Nintendo: Guess what? We aren't perfect, but we're still kicking your asses. Merry Chrismas!!!"

Here's a metaphor:

Saying Nintendo has a crisis right now is like saying the Patriots have an offensive crisis right now because Kyle Brady is hurt.


My metaphor was going to be winning the lottery and then having the "crisis" of learning that someone else had the same numbers so I have to share the winnings. It isn't an optimal situation, but it is still pretty good.

Nintendo in crisis? Seriously?

The table below is worldwide sales for each of the consoles approximately one year after their North American release (source: vgchartz.com). Sure, the Wii is missing out on potential sales this holiday season, but its pretty crazy to criticize them for the supply issues considering they've sold nearly twice as many consoles in one year as anyone else in the last 20 years.

<table><tr><td>Wii</td><td>16,288,831</td></tr><tr><td>PS2</td><td>8,367,976</td></tr><tr><td>Xbox360</td><td>7,959,845</td></tr><tr><td>PS3</td><td>7,194,575</td></tr><tr><td>Xbox</td><td>6,490,007</td></tr><tr><td>Gamecube</td><td>6,408,925</td></tr><tr><td>Super NES</td><td>5,692,116</td></tr><tr><td>PSX</td><td>3,680,641</td></tr><tr><td>Saturn</td><td>3,165,977</td></tr><tr><td>N64</td><td>2,252,801</td></tr><tr><td>Dreamcast</td><td>1,836,548</td></tr></table>

Seriously, the stock price dropping is a very nice opportunity to make some cash.

I'm not totally sure about that at this point. Many of the investment analysts are saying that the Nintendo stock has reached a mature level at this point and won't see anything near the return that we've seen since the Wii release. Most of the gain over the past year or so has been due to a major undervaluation of the Nintendo stock. Now that they've corrected the value, the gains aren't going to be nearly as big.

Interestingly enough, in Japan, Sony may have benefitted in recent weeks from the sale of Nintendo stock. Analysts say that some of the sellers believe that Nintendo stock has hit a plateau and are now moving their investments to Sony, which they say is undervalued due to the recent surge in PS3 sales. Who knows whether or not that trend will continue.

Article discussing Nintendo stock price drop & movement of investments.......

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUST11337520071212?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

Nintendo in crisis? Seriously?

The table below is worldwide sales for each of the consoles approximately one year after their North American release (source: vgchartz.com). Sure, the Wii is missing out on potential sales this holiday season, but its pretty crazy to criticize them for the supply issues considering they've sold nearly twice as many consoles in one year as anyone else in the last 20 years.

As I stated before, no issues with the sales numbers and the hangup on the word 'crisis' is noted. With that said, Nintendo is giving away major amounts of profits and even their executives are openly admitting that.

Man...that Sony is something. They benefit from everything!

Man...that Sony is something. They benefit from everything!

Did you read the article? What did you disagree with in the analysis?

Did you read the article? What did you disagree with in the analysis?

Dude, I'm agreeing with you! Sony rocks!

Dude, I'm agreeing with you! Sony rocks!

Your comedy routine is nearly as good as Carrot Top. Really, I mean it. :)

Your comedy routine is nearly as good as Carrot Top. Really, I mean it. :)


Are you talking Carrot Top pre-steroids or post-steroids?

Are you talking Carrot Top pre-steroids or post-steroids?

Both.

Did you read the article? What did you disagree with in the analysis?


Pretty much everything.


The fact that they don't think Nintendo's stock will continue to rise is ridiculous. With the fact that Nintendo is going to own probably 70%+ of the market at the end of this, $70 for their stock is way low.

Pretty much everything.


The fact that they don't think Nintendo's stock will continue to rise is ridiculous. With the fact that Nintendo is going to own probably 70%+ of the market at the end of this, $70 for their stock is way low.

Once again, a bit fuzzy on your numbers analysis. The value of a stock has no relevance to whether it is a good stock or not. A $70 stock could be a terrible stock or it could be a great stock. Similarly, a $30 stock might be a stock on the downturn or it may be a stock who just had a 4:1 stock split and was previously valued at $120.

I don't doubt that the Wii will own the majority of the market share if you lump it in with the HD current-gen consoles, but I don't see it reaching a 70%+ market share. Both the 360 and PS3 will have growth levels when their prices come down over the next year or two.

yes, they'll grow. The PS2 is at what, 125M now? The NES sold 60M. I wouldn't be surprised to see this generation sell 200M+ consoles, and if it did, I would be shocked to see less than 120M Wiis.

[quote]Once again, a bit fuzzy on your numbers analysis. The value of a stock has no relevance to whether it is a good stock or not. A $70 stock could be a terrible stock or it could be a great stock. Similarly, a $30 stock might be a stock on the downturn or it may be a stock who just had a 4:1 stock split and was previously valued at $120.

Completely wrong. Unless theres a stock split, $70 per share is low for what Nintendo will be worth in a year.

On January 3, 2007, Nintendo closed the day with their stock price at $32.44. As the market closed on Friday, their stock was at $72.44

They've lost about $5 a share in the last couple of weeks with some idiots dropping off board and probably some people thinking the stock has peaked, but the growth rate in their stock will sitll be over 100% this year. (just a quick FYI, that's kinda good)

Somehow, I think Nintendo is gonna come out of this ok.

I strongly considered buying some Nintendo stock at the beginning of the year and didn't. I'm kicking myself for that now. I wish all of my stocks and companies could be in such a crisis mode.

Completely wrong. Unless theres a stock split, $70 per share is low for what Nintendo will be worth in a year.

Exactly my point. A stock split has been rumored for a few months now. With that said, the value of the stock hasn't changed whether you have 1 stock at $70 or two at $35. It's the same value.

I strongly considered buying some Nintendo stock at the beginning of the year and didn't. I'm kicking myself for that now. I wish all of my stocks and companies could be in such a crisis mode.

Agreed. It's a shame because it could have been double that value if they actually would have planned their supply channels correctly.

What's the matter, Mizzou, your corporate overlords at Sony let you know that unless Sony makes a huge comeback they won't need as many shills?

Agreed. It's a shame because it could have been double that value if they actually would have planned their supply channels correctly.
How embarrassing would that have been for Sony? Its one thing to be doubled up by a "last-gen" console... imagine if they'd been triple sold?

yes, they'll grow. The PS2 is at what, 125M now? The NES sold 60M. I wouldn't be surprised to see this generation sell 200M+ consoles, and if it did, I would be shocked to see less than 120M Wiis.

It's a good illustration. You said that the Wii would sell 70%+ of the total number of consoles. Let's assume 150M Wii's sold for the sake of argument. In order for the Wii to hold 70% of the market under that scenario, the 360 and PS3 would have to sell less than 60M units combined. There's no way that scenario will occur. The 360 and PS3 will sell more units than that over the course of this lifecycle.

Agreed. It's a shame because it could have been double that value if they actually would have planned their supply channels correctly.


Right, but that only matters if it actually effects "total consoles sold" which I don't think it will.

The Wii is JUST NOW coming out with actual Wii games, and not GC ports. They've sold $16M consoles on essentially Wii Sports and a GC game with motion controls slapped on (Z:TP). Game designers are just now starting to get games out that were developed for the Wii (and not the slapped together crap they made when they realized they'd missed the boat).


This is going to get a whole lot worse for MS/Sony before it gets better.


Don't forget, the biggest knock on the Wii has been "no games". Mario Kart and Super Smash Brothers Brawl come out early next year, and those will make a huge difference.

How embarrassing would that have been for Sony? Its one thing to be doubled up by a "last-gen" console... imagine if they'd been triple sold?

There's a lot of time left in the current lifecycle. Calling the war is highly premature at this point. But if we use your current point logic, there's no doubt that Microsoft and Sony would have been lambasted right now if Nintendo would have properly planned for the demand of their console. They're missing out on revenue and allowing Microsoft and Sony to stay in a race that they both should have soundly lost by now. Instead, Sony and Microsoft are in a position because of the supply constraint of their competitor to even beat the Wii in some markets they had no business winning.

Don't forget, the biggest knock on the Wii has been "no games". Mario Kart and Super Smash Brothers Brawl come out early next year, and those will make a huge difference.

What difference are those games going to make? I agree that the Nintendo fans love those franchises, but you can't sell anymore consoles than you can build. Also, I'm not sure either of those franchises listed above is going to move major console numbers even if you take away the supply issues. First, most of the fans of those games already own a Wii. Second, it's similar to the Halo release. That game is the defining franchise on the 360, but the 360 only received a 250K boost in N/A sales in the release month over previous month sales. I'm not sure you can expect much more than that from Mario Kart and I wouldn't expect a major boost from SSBB at all.

What difference are those games going to make? I agree that the Nintendo fans love those franchises, but you can't sell anymore consoles than you can build. Also, I'm not sure either of those franchises listed above is going to move major console numbers even if you take away the supply issues. First, most of the fans of those games already own a Wii. Second, it's similar to the Halo release. That game is the defining franchise on the 360, but the 360 only received a 250K boost in N/A sales in the release month over previous month sales. I'm not sure you can expect much more than that from Mario Kart and I wouldn't expect a major boost from SSBB at all.


I don't expect a boost. I expect Nintendo to continue selling at full capacity deep into the year, and maybe into next holiday season. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wii hit 35M units before either one of the other consoles hits 20M.


We're talking about a console that is going to sell 17M units in its first year. It'll sell another 17M+ this year. The Wii has 42% market share right now after only one year (360 38%, 2 years, PS3 19%). Yes, the PS3 will probably pass the 360 in monthly sales, but it wont catch it in total anytime soon, but while this is happening, the Wii is going to run away with this thing.

It's hard to boost your console sales when you can't keep up with demand. So who cares if great games come out for the Wii? Still gonna sell the exact same number of consoles.

When PS3 and 360 hit mass-market prices, they will start to close the margin on Nintendo. Not that they will ever catch it. But they will have a higher percentage of the market than they do now.

It's hard to boost your console sales when you can't keep up with demand. So who cares if great games come out for the Wii? Still gonna sell the exact same number of consoles.

When PS3 and 360 hit mass-market prices, they will start to close the margin on Nintendo. Not that they will ever catch it. But they will have a higher percentage of the market than they do now.

I would guess that the Wii price isn't going to drop much if at all by the next holiday season. It'll be at least $200 by next fall, if not still $250. Conversely, I'd expect the 360 to have a $200-250 price point on its base console and the PS3 base console to be priced at $300 by the next holiday season. They should be able to make some pretty significant cost reductions on both systems by next fall.

There's a lot of time left in the current lifecycle. Calling the war is highly premature at this point. But if we use your current point logic, there's no doubt that Microsoft and Sony would have been lambasted right now if Nintendo would have properly planned for the demand of their console. They're missing out on revenue and allowing Microsoft and Sony to stay in a race that they both should have soundly lost by now. Instead, Sony and Microsoft are in a position because of the supply constraint of their competitor to even beat the Wii in some markets they had no business winning.

I really don't think Nintendo had any idea how much demand there would be for the Wii. I'm sure they hoped it would sell like hotcakes, but I don't really blame them for not spending tons of money gearing up huge amounts of production for something they really couldn't have known was going to be so popular. You can fault them I think for not ramping up production at this point, but even that without knowing the costs of increasing the production output vs how many sales they actually lose (compared to how many sales are just delayed) is still a tough argument to make especially for us sitting on the sidelines. It's easy for analysts to say they are leaving money on the table because of production issues, but how much of that money is actually lost vs how much is just delayed? Also, what are the costs of increasing production to meet demand? How long will demand continue at the current rate? Can the cost of increasing production be offset long-term if demand levels off?

I think it was an article you posted about the time that Sony released the PS3 where it talked about how there were concerns about Sony not being able to meet the initial demand for the PS3. If I remember correctly, it explained in the article that it was the best financial option for Sony to maintain a steady stream of production throughout the life cycle and not start up a bunch of production facilities that would have to be closed once initial demand leveled off. I suspect the same thing is applicable to Nintendo with the exception that they weren't really expecting demand to reach anything close to what it did. Hindsight being 20-20, it's easy to criticize them now but things could have gone the other way where they ramped up production and then demand fell off. The difference being, that what they did ended up making them less money than optimal, with the other option they could have lost money.

Most people are talking about them not ramping up production, but there was a recent article I read somewhere (here?) that stated that Nintendo has almost doubled production capacity in the last 6 months and were working towards upping it more in 08. As it is, capacity is almost 2 million units per month and they are working towards pushing it up over 2.5 million. There is no reason to think that they won't sell 20 plus million units next year worldwide which will continue to blow away the PS3 and the 360.

That's pretty impressive if they've doubled production and still can't meet demand. I had no idea they had done that.

That's pretty impressive if they've doubled production and still can't meet demand. I had no idea they had done that.


They're building consoles faster than anyone has ever built them before.


They've sold 17M units in the first year. I don't think any other console has ever broken 9M. Theres no way they could have expected to double the best selling console ever.

The whole point is that demand for the Wii is unprecedented.

Don't stocks typically drop during the holidays. Maybe some people sold their Nintendo stock so they could buy a Wii.

I thought it was the last 6 months, but it was actually since the launch that the increase in production occurred. They haven't said they will increase production further, but there is a lot of speculation they will (and it would seem to make sense for them to do so.) Here is the article from Gamespot. Also, of possible interest to any Wii hunters is that Gamestop's across the nation will be giving out rain checks on the 20th or 21st that guarantee a Wii by January. I'll probably take advantage of that as my wife's grandparents want one to play. The only other system they have ever played is the old Nintendo which they had bought for my wife when she was a kid.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184028.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;5

The rain-check thing is probably going to be a disaster most likely. What are they promising....maybe 8-10 cases per store? Those rainchecks will likely be a dent for the first 20 minutes of opening, and then they'll just have more of a negative feedback reaction for the next 2 days as people thought it would be an easy process or something.

I wonder why gamestop, anyways, didn't just start their raincheck policy a long time ago. Where you could just prepay, get on a list, and get one eventually.

"Many tens of thousands" of consoles, as referenced in the article, divided by 3000 stores equals maybe 30 units per store at the very most.

Question for Mr Sony. How much better can the graphics be on PS3 when compared to a 360?

I haven't seen a game with graphics as good as MLB 08 the show. I was looking at my Madden 08 for 360 last night. The graphics really aren't that good. The stands look bleh, the grass/turf isn't that great and the models aren't fantastic.

I'm not sure how much better they can get that to look and keep it at 60FPS on the 360. I was figuring they were pretty much capped out in terms of graphics.

Is it feasible that the PS3 could have a game that looks much better then the 360?

Could Madden 2009 or 2010 blow away a 360 version?

This is assuming that companies learn how to develop for the PS3 version.

Because Madden 2k8 on 360 or PS3 really don't look next gen at all. :(

Right, but that only matters if it actually effects "total consoles sold" which I don't think it will.

The Wii is JUST NOW coming out with actual Wii games, and not GC ports. They've sold $16M consoles on essentially Wii Sports and a GC game with motion controls slapped on (Z:TP). Game designers are just now starting to get games out that were developed for the Wii (and not the slapped together crap they made when they realized they'd missed the boat).


This is going to get a whole lot worse for MS/Sony before it gets better.


Don't forget, the biggest knock on the Wii has been "no games". Mario Kart and Super Smash Brothers Brawl come out early next year, and those will make a huge difference.

1) "Worse" really depends on who you are. Sony is getting devastated by this. No other way to spin it. MS? meh. If you'd told them they'd be a solid #2 at the end of '07 with over 15 million consoles sold and 38% of the world market, they'd have been ok. I'm not being an MS sympathizer here, I just think people need to put into perspective where MS was at the start of this generation of consoles.

MS had under 25 million sold for the original Xbox. The PS2 sold 120 million worldwide and about 40 million in the US. The GameCube sold about 13 million units in the US and 22 million worldwide. So last gen, MS's market share looked like this:

US - 32%
World - 15%

Currently, the numbers look like this:

US - 48%
World - 38%

Nintendo will keep eating away at both of those figures, but unless complete and total disaster strikes, the 360 is going to make huge gains in market share. That's really all they wanted to do with this console. Gain some market share and turn a profit on it by the second or third year.

They are going to accomplish both goals. Do they like that one "king" was replaced with another? Nope. But at the end of the day, they are doing what they set out to do.

Sony, as has been mentioned numerous times is the one getting killed here. They went from owning 71% of the market worldwide on the PS2 to HOPING to get out of last place by 2009. I can think of very few products in my lifetime that have fallen down that badly. Sony went from 71% market share to 19%.

Nintendo, of course, is the big winner. They are essentially going to swap places with Sony. Truly amazing stuff there.

2) As for games, Nintendo still has a lot of work to do there. I think software sales could be the achilles heel of the system. I think the 360 and PS3 are populated with owners who are going to buy a lot more software than the Wii owners are. I mean, a big % of their software sales still come from the sale of the Wii itself and games that come packaged with extra hardware. I know Smash Bro. and Mario Kart are going to rock. Virtually all Nintendo games do. I think the jury is still out on other software for the system and that's a question Nintendo needs answered going forward.

The hardware question for #1 is answered. Nintendo wins. Game. Set. Match.

The race for #2 in hardware is still ongoing, but I think MS is going to win that war. Mizzou thinks the PS3 will outsell the 360 by about 310k units a month over the next 24 and take over the lead. I just don't see how that happens. Maybe I'm wrong. . .

Software is where it gets interesting for me. I don't think that race is decided yet.

One thing to note here, the Wii isn't a next gen system is it?

It is like in the middle of Current Gen and Next Gen. More powerful, gamecube with a new controller.

One thing to note here, the Wii isn't a next gen system is it?

It is like in the middle of Current Gen and Next Gen. More powerful, gamecube with a new controller.

I think it is a next gen system. As other have said, it may not have next gen graphics, but it has a completely new innovative play style. However, who cares whether anyone classifies it as a next gen system or not. It was released around the same time as the PS3 and 360, and it is a direct competitor for market share. The bottom line is all that matters, not opinions about whether it is "next gen" or not.

One thing to note here, the Wii isn't a next gen system is it?

It is like in the middle of Current Gen and Next Gen. More powerful, gamecube with a new controller.

The wii most certainly IS next generation. All the 360 is, is amore powerful XBox. No, the Wii isn't as powerful as the other two, but its pushing the envelope more than the other two are. The other two are essentially just faster reincarnations of the last generation.


I don't know if the PS3 will catch the 360. I think sometime next year it will pass the 360 in sales/month, and then hold that lead and expand it. HD-DVD is losing, and the PS3 is more powerful (by leaps and bounds) than the 360.

MS had a chance to basically bury Sony here, but Nintendo went and screwed everything up for them. Nintendo took enough sales from MS to keep it reasonably close. If the Wii doesn't show up, I think we're looking at 20M or so 360s to 5M PS3s, and things are starting to spiral out of control. MS will (and should be) happy with this generation, but Sony has to realize they dodged a bullet.

The longer the PS3/XBox hang around, the more the PS3's ample power is going to tip things. Sony should be happy that Nintendo kept MS from making them irrelevant.

I think it is a next gen system. As other have said, it may not have next gen graphics, but it has a completely new innovative play style. However, who cares whether anyone classifies it as a next gen system or not. It was released around the same time as the PS3 and 360, and it is a direct competitor for market share. The bottom line is all that matters, not opinions about whether it is "next gen" or not.

That is actually a pretty decent point.

But, doesn't the fact that the PS2 is still selling well weigh into this discussion then? PS2 still has them all buried.

I think the deciding factor isn't how many consoles are sold, but how many total games are sold on each console.

I would venture to guess that XBOX 360 game sales demolish the Wii and PS3.

e.g.
Number of total XBOX 360 games sold over the last 2 years is much greater then what the total games for PS3 and Wii have sold over the last 2 years.

Is there a number for that?

The wii most certainly IS next generation. All the 360 is, is amore powerful XBox. No, the Wii isn't as powerful as the other two, but its pushing the envelope more than the other two are. The other two are essentially just faster reincarnations of the last generation.


I don't know if the PS3 will catch the 360. I think sometime next year it will pass the 360 in sales/month, and then hold that lead and expand it. HD-DVD is losing, and the PS3 is more powerful (by leaps and bounds) than the 360.

MS had a chance to basically bury Sony here, but Nintendo went and screwed everything up for them. Nintendo took enough sales from MS to keep it reasonably close. If the Wii doesn't show up, I think we're looking at 20M or so 360s to 5M PS3s, and things are starting to spiral out of control. MS will (and should be) happy with this generation, but Sony has to realize they dodged a bullet.

The longer the PS3/XBox hang around, the more the PS3's ample power is going to tip things. Sony should be happy that Nintendo kept MS from making them irrelevant.

Good Point my origonal post was pretty dumb when you think about it that way.

...and the PS3 is more powerful (by leaps and bounds) than the 360.
No, it's not. The architecture for each is quite different, and as multiple developers have pointed out both the PS3 and 360 have their comparative strengths and weaknesses. Claiming that the PS3 is more powerful, to say nothing of more powerful by "leaps and bounds" is dubious at best. Most developers would tell you that, in a general sense, the PS3 is slightly more powerful overall.

The PS3 may eventually catch the 360 (though I have my doubts about this), but if it does it will be because Blu-Ray makes some serious inroads in cutting into Standard Def DVD sales and exclusives start tipping in a big way towards the PS3.

Microsoft won't give up their sizable lead on the PS3 without a major fight - I expect them to start getting aggressive with price cuts if the PS3 keeps making up ground in monthly hardware sales.

One thing to note here, the Wii isn't a next gen system is it?

It is like in the middle of Current Gen and Next Gen. More powerful, gamecube with a new controller.

You do realize that the XBox 360 is a more powerful XBox, right? And the Playstation 3 is a more po...ah hell why do I even bother?

You do realize that the XBox 360 is a more powerful XBox, right? And the Playstation 3 is a more po...ah hell why do I even bother?

I already admitted that my post was dumb :). Good point.

No, it's not. The architecture for each is quite different, and as multiple developers have pointed out both the PS3 and 360 have their comparative strengths and weaknesses. Claiming that the PS3 is more powerful, to say nothing of more powerful by "leaps and bounds" is dubious at best. Most developers would tell you that, in a general sense, the PS3 is slightly more powerful overall.

The PS3 may eventually catch the 360 (though I have my doubts about this), but if it does it will be because Blu-Ray makes some serious inroads in cutting into Standard Def DVD sales and exclusives start tipping in a big way towards the PS3.

Microsoft won't give up their sizable lead on the PS3 without a major fight - I expect them to start getting aggressive with price cuts if the PS3 keeps making up ground in monthly hardware sales.

yes, the PS3 is leaps and bounds more powerful than the 360. Its just a different architecture than what people are used to programming on. The PS3 is more powerful than the 360 in the same way that a PentiumD running at 2.2ghz is more powerful than a P4 running at 3.5. Its got more power, but code has to specifically be tailored to it.


The PS3 is more powerful. (most)Designers to this point have been too lazy to change their tools.

The wii most certainly IS next generation. All the 360 is, is amore powerful XBox. No, the Wii isn't as powerful as the other two, but its pushing the envelope more than the other two are. The other two are essentially just faster reincarnations of the last generation.


I don't know if the PS3 will catch the 360. I think sometime next year it will pass the 360 in sales/month, and then hold that lead and expand it. HD-DVD is losing, and the PS3 is more powerful (by leaps and bounds) than the 360.

MS had a chance to basically bury Sony here, but Nintendo went and screwed everything up for them. Nintendo took enough sales from MS to keep it reasonably close. If the Wii doesn't show up, I think we're looking at 20M or so 360s to 5M PS3s, and things are starting to spiral out of control. MS will (and should be) happy with this generation, but Sony has to realize they dodged a bullet.

The longer the PS3/XBox hang around, the more the PS3's ample power is going to tip things. Sony should be happy that Nintendo kept MS from making them irrelevant.

1) A programmer on our own boards has made the point time and time again the the "power" of the PS3 is just different than the power of the 360. It's not ahead by leaps and bounds. I played COD4 on the 360 the other day (I'm reviewing it for the PS3) and it was the same damned game. People make it out to be lazy programmers, but that's just not reality.

2) You are right on the Wii. It's certainly a next gen system. It may not have HD graphics, but that doesn't mean crap. It's certainly a next gen system.

3) I don't know how any Sony executive can possibly think they "dodged a bullet" here. Even if they scrape back into the game and take the lead at some point, their market share has deterorated and they won't get that back in this round.

You can say what you want about them being able to do it or how MS could have put them away or blah, blah, blah. That doesn't change the fact that Sony went from owning the market to competing for market share and hoping not to end up in third place.

Yes, MS screwed up a lot of things. Yes, Mizzou, Nintendo screwed up with teh demand issue. But Sony screwed up far more than any of them put together. They didn't dodge bullets. Hell, they didn't even try to run for cover. They were like a bunch of bad AI that runs into a wall until you shoot em in the back of the head. The sad thing is that many of us here (me being one of the most vocal), called this thing the second we heard the price of the PS3. It was so obvious what they were doing to themselves. Yet a lot of the gaming world didn't bother to pay attention to the tea leaves.

In fact, many of the same things being said about the PS3 in early December of 2006 are being said now as reasons why it'll catch the 360. (More power, Final Fantasy, Price cuts coming, Dominance in Japan) Well, we're a year later. FF is a year from being released. More power hasn't come to fruition. (people aren't buying the PS3 for the Blu-Ray? I'm stunned, who'd of thunk it?) The price cuts have arrived and only a minor dent has been made to the 360. (OMG, 50k units on sales over a million, the sky is falling) The dominance in Japan is there, but nobody really figured on it getting it's ass handed to it this Christmas by the 360 in the US, did they?

e.g.
Number of total XBOX 360 games sold over the last 2 years is much greater then what the total games for PS3 and Wii have sold over the last 2 years.



Of course it has. The longer a system is around, the more games there are, the more games it will sell.


That being said, the Wii is absolutely demolishing what the 360 was doing at this time in its cycle (software and hardware wise).

"You can say what you want about them being able to do it or how MS could have put them away or blah, blah, blah. That doesn't change the fact that Sony went from owning the market to competing for market share and hoping not to end up in third place. "

I'm not saying thats not true. What I'm saying is that if Nintendo hadn't shown up and blown the market apart, and if MS hadn't had the RROD problems, Sony wouldn't be in third, they'd be irrelevant.

yes, the PS3 is leaps and bounds more powerful than the 360. Its just a different architecture than what people are used to programming on. The PS3 is more powerful than the 360 in the same way that a PentiumD running at 2.2ghz is more powerful than a P4 running at 3.5. Its got more power, but code has to specifically be tailored to it.


The PS3 is more powerful. (most)Designers to this point have been too lazy to change their tools.
And your qualifications for saying this are what? I work in the industry, I talk to programmers, I read what other programmers write (some of which has been posted on this forum) - and what you say is not corroborated by what I hear and read.

Again, the PS3 may have an overall edge in power, but any claim that such an edge is in "leaps and bounds" is utter bullshit.

I already admitted that my post was dumb :). Good point.

OK, sorry I missed it or was reading/posting when you posted it. Sorry for piling on.

yes, the PS3 is leaps and bounds more powerful than the 360. Its just a different architecture than what people are used to programming on. The PS3 is more powerful than the 360 in the same way that a PentiumD running at 2.2ghz is more powerful than a P4 running at 3.5. Its got more power, but code has to specifically be tailored to it.

The PS3 is more powerful. (most)Designers to this point have been too lazy to change their tools.

B.S., you have no clue what you are talking about. Except for the last statement, where you're just spouting MBBF propaganda from a few months ago.

The PS3 has 7 very fast FPUs and one pretty fast CPU. The Xbox360 has 3 pretty fast CPUs. For certain floating-point-but-not-memory-intensive stuff, the PS3 is faster. For general programs, the 360 is faster.

The PS3 tends to be faster at system things: low-level physics, low-level graphics, pathfinding.

The 360 tends to be faster at game things: managing physics objects, scene graph management, AI goal planning, etc.

The PS3 will tend to be faster / prettier for arcade-type titles with lots of physics and 3D graphics.

The 360 will tend to faster / deeper for more robust games, handling more complex AIs and simulations for example.

You can only make the claim that one is faster when talking about specific algorithms. You may also be able to make the claim for certain games. But you can pick cases that show either one is faster than the other one.

The programming difficulties come in taking advantage of the PS3's special FPUs. They have very specific things they do well, and access to limited memory, which requires special coding and care. And you have to deal with their limitations; there are specific things they do very well, and many things they can't do at all. Leaving you 1 processor which is essentially equivalent to the 3 sitting in the 360 for everything else.

I'm not sure how to respond to Greg's post, but the passion and factyness of it makes me feel like some kind of response is necessary.

Synovia = pwned

Honestly, is there a single game out on either system (PS3 or 360) that couldn't be released on the other?

The PS3 may eventually catch the 360 (though I have my doubts about this), but if it does it will be because Blu-Ray makes some serious inroads in cutting into Standard Def DVD sales and exclusives start tipping in a big way towards the PS3.

I will say that the profusion of BOGO sales on Amazon and at other retailers mean that my Blu-ray Disc collection is already nearly half the size of my DVD collection. I can't even imagine how big it would be if a) Warner's classic library were appearing on BD, and b) it looked good enough to convince me to part with my standard-def Bogart DVDs.

I will say that the profusion of BOGO sales on Amazon and at other retailers mean that my Blu-ray Disc collection is already nearly half the size of my DVD collection. I can't even imagine how big it would be if a) Warner's classic library were appearing on BD, and b) it looked good enough to convince me to part with my standard-def Bogart DVDs.
You're at the bleeding edge though Sack. Look at the overall sales of HD-DVD's and Blu-Ray disks monthly compared to SD DVD sales.

DVD was such a leap in quality and convenience over VHS that many people started buying and collecting movies that hadn't done so previously. I think the leap from SD DVD to HD-DVD or Blu-Ray isn't enough for many people to justify jumping in to a new format and worrying they'll pick one that won't end up lasting.

You're at the bleeding edge though Sack. Look at the overall sales of HD-DVD's and Blu-Ray disks monthly compared to SD DVD sales.

I am, but I'm not. Like, yeah, I'm a tech guy, but not one of my Blu-ray movies have been purchased at anything close to full price. I picked up Die Hard 2 and Die Hard 3 on Amazon's two-day BOGO this weekend. Total price paid, $27. I'm enough of a Die Hard fan to pick up those two movies in high def at DVD prices.

Not anywhere near enough to pay the $28-35 I've seen them go for at retail.



DVD was such a leap in quality and convenience over VHS that many people started buying and collecting movies that hadn't done so previously. I think the leap from SD DVD to HD-DVD or Blu-Ray isn't enough for many people to justify jumping in to a new format and worrying they'll pick one that won't end up lasting.

It's partly the fear of survival and partly the cost. The price of the players are coming down, but in a lot of cases you can still get 2-3 DVDs for the cost of one HD-DVD or BD film. When the prices hit DVD prices for either format, and do so consistently, you'll see it explode.

1) A programmer on our own boards has made the point time and time again the the "power" of the PS3 is just different than the power of the 360. It's not ahead by leaps and bounds. I played COD4 on the 360 the other day (I'm reviewing it for the PS3) and it was the same damned game. People make it out to be lazy programmers, but that's just not reality.

Couple of points of clarification here as there's some inaccuracies.

1. People don't complain about 'lazy programmers' when both of the games are the same. They complain when the port to one system is inferior to the other system when most developers have no problem creating identical games. COD4 is a perfect example of a developer who created the same game on both systems with no noticable difference. People will never complain about that.

2. Just because the game is the same on both systems does not prove that a system is more/less powerful than the other. Developers create multiplatform games to look alike to avoid any feelings by the owners of one or the other console that they got a lesser version of the game. They do that to avoid reactions like the one that EA received last year on some of their games which had obvious flaws in the PS3 version.

I'd agree that the difference in technology is not near the 'leaps and bounds' level that the other post cited.

B.S., you have no clue what you are talking about. Except for the last statement, where you're just spouting MBBF propaganda from a few months ago.

Which 'propaganda' would that be concerning that last statement? I understand that you are a programmer, but the only company that I've consistently hammered regarding this issues is EA for their sub-par ports to the PS3. The media is full of reports about that 'propaganda' and even the EA execs have admitted that they screwed that situation up. Outside of that developer, I haven't seen any multiplatform games of note where the two versions were all that different.

Interview of Jack Tretton (Sony U.S. bossman). Decent read overall, despite the bias statements on both ends of the interview. Tretton did make a confusing statement concerning the movie studio support (for some reason said 7 of 8 major studios distribute on BR when it's actually 6 of 8).

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/12/a_qa_with_sony_us_games_chief_jack_tretton_extended_version.html

In non-propaganda news.. (Ok, non SYSTEM propoganda news)

EA has oficially been taken over by the pod people, as they announced to the world the free game they would be offering folks whose Rock Band Guitar needed work. Everyone thought it would be old sports titles (NFL Head Coach, anyone?) and everything that they needed to clear out. instead, they're offering.. just about everything.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/rock-band/free-ea-games-are-actually-not-bad-ie-ask-for-skate-335057.php

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/eagames.jpg

Which 'propaganda' would that be concerning that last statement? I understand that you are a programmer, but the only company that I've consistently hammered regarding this issues is EA for their sub-par ports to the PS3.

Yes, you specifically hammered EA, by calling them "lazy", and consistently deny how much harder the PS3 is to program for. That's propaganda, when you have no CLUE why they were able to up the framerate on the 360 without also upping the framerate on the PS3. You chose to call them "lazy" instead.

Looks like the PS3 update from yesterday is going to be really nice for those people that own both the PS3 and PSP. The latest update allows the user to put any PS1 game disc in the PS3 and play it on your PSP. Great feature for those who play the PSP on the go. Really opens up the library of playable games for the PSP.

http://digg.com/playstation/BREAKING_All_PS1_Games_discs_included_Now_Playable_on_PSP

Developers create multiplatform games to look alike to avoid any feelings by the owners of one or the other console that they got a lesser version of the game. They do that to avoid reactions like the one that EA received last year on some of their games which had obvious flaws in the PS3 version.
ROTFLMAO

Are you for real? Most publishers don't spend a lot of time trying optimize multiple SKU games for each platform, but it has nothing to do with your explanation.

If you're developing a game for multiple SKU's, the primary thing you are taking advantage of is maximizing revenue opportunities for your development effort. To the extend that you can share assets, code and logic across multiple platforms, you save development time and money. You might be able to user higher-res textures on a particular SKU or implement less compressed audio on another SKU, but in general the games are basically the same because there's no financial incentive to spend extra cycles doing a large amount of customization of your game for every SKU you put out. You're not going to see different animations (though the compression on them might differ slightly), you're not going to see different levels, you're not going to see different gameplay.

The exception to this is when a developer is given an incentive from a particular platform to enhance that SKU, or when you get into extras like downloadable content that might be made exclusive for one platform over another.

EA isn't going to slow down their sports game for next year on the 360 to make PS3 owners feel better - they're going to do what they can to bring the PS3 framerates up to the level of their 360 versions.

What a lot of developers are discovering is that, unlike what they figured going into this generation, it probably makes more sense to do your primary development on the PS3 and then port to the 360 rather than the other way around. That obviously hasn't been an option until recently due to the fact the 360 dev kits were available well before PS3 dev kits.

ROTFLMAO

Are you for real? Most publishers don't spend a lot of time trying optimize multiple SKU games for each platform, but it has nothing to do with your explanation.

If you're developing a game for multiple SKU's, the primary thing you are taking advantage of is maximizing revenue opportunities for your development effort. To the extend that you can share assets, code and logic across multiple platforms, you save development time and money. You might be able to user higher-res textures on a particular SKU or implement less compressed audio on another SKU, but in general the games are basically the same because there's no financial incentive to spend extra cycles doing a large amount of customization of your game for every SKU you put out. You're not going to see different animations (though the compression on them might differ slightly), you're not going to see different levels, you're not going to see different gameplay.

The exception to this is when a developer is given an incentive from a particular platform to enhance that SKU, or when you get into extras like downloadable content that might be made exclusive for one platform over another.

EA isn't going to slow down their sports game for next year on the 360 to make PS3 owners feel better - they're going to do what they can to bring the PS3 framerates up to the level of their 360 versions.

What a lot of developers are discovering is that, unlike what they figured going into this generation, it probably makes more sense to do your primary development on the PS3 and then port to the 360 rather than the other way around. That obviously hasn't been an option until recently due to the fact the 360 dev kits were available well before PS3 dev kits.

I'll track down the article/interview from few weeks back, but the COD4 developer made comments that were directly in line with my statement and disagree with your assessment of why they try to match the two versions as closely as possible.

FYI:

Gamestop has clarified that the Wii "rain check" promotion will only be on December 21st. It will be limited to 1 per household and there will be a "limited number" but they won't say how many. Anyone who participates will be guaranteed a Wii by January 25th.

In non-propaganda news.. (Ok, non SYSTEM propoganda news)

EA has oficially been taken over by the pod people, as they announced to the world the free game they would be offering folks whose Rock Band Guitar needed work. Everyone thought it would be old sports titles (NFL Head Coach, anyone?) and everything that they needed to clear out. instead, they're offering.. just about everything.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/rock-band/free-ea-games-are-actually-not-bad-ie-ask-for-skate-335057.php

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/eagames.jpg

Wow.

I guess I should have sent mine in instead of working on it myself.

Did not expect those choices. Would love to get FIFA 2008 free out of the deal.

I like that Rock Band is one of the games offered. Give it to a friend!

I'll track down the article/interview from few weeks back, but the COD4 developer made comments that were directly in line with my statement and disagree with your assessment of why they try to match the two versions as closely as possible.
Whatever chief. In all my time in game development (going on 10 years now) I've never heard discussions of multi-platform development that suggested such games be made similar to as to not upset gamers on one platform vs. another.

Now, obviously you want to make the games similar, and the nature of multi-platform development necessitates that this be true. The game design, the levels, the animation, etc. - it's going to be a very similar game. There may be some modest differences such as higher-res textures, higher poly count in the models, better lighting, superior shaders, less compressed animation, less compressed audio, more audio channels, all based on the hardware. And sometimes there will be upgraded versions of a game (additional levels, additional items, etc.) for a particular platform because the developer has received incentives from MS or Sony. But nobody sits down when planning a multi-platform game and says "we'd better ratchet down the X SKU version of the game to better match the Y SKU because we don't want to piss off the Y gamers".

But nobody sits down when planning a multi-platform game and says "we'd better ratchet down the X SKU version of the game to better match the Y SKU because we don't want to piss off the Y gamers".

And I certainly didn't say anyone ratcheted down any version of the game. You could at least make your argument by using what I actually said in the discussion. I said they try to make them comparable. That's much different than your implication that I said they try to ratchet it down.

Regardless, I don't care to split hairs with you over this. I'm searching for the article. If I can find it, I'll put it up.

And I certainly didn't say anyone ratcheted down any version of the game. You could at least make your argument by using what I actually said in the discussion. I said they try to make them comparable. That's much different than your implication that I said they try to ratchet it down.
Well, of course they try to make the games comparable. But with differing hardware, that requires compromises in each SKU - what one platform does well, another might not. Often what that means is development by the lowest common denominator, with some (but usually not much) customizing for each SKU once the base game development is finished.

What EA found in their development of Madden on the 360 and PS3 is what they had developed using the 360 platform, they couldn't get to run at 60 fps on the PS3, at least not in time to ship this past version. Rather than re-architect the game to get it to run at 60 fps, they had to accept having the game run at a lower frame rate.

My point stands - when developing for multiple platforms, you try to do most of your development on the lowest common standards and then take whatever extra cycles you can afford to customize for each SKU, but that usually isn't much (and not because developers don't want to piss off a particular platform base, but because it's usually not worth the extra expense).

FYI:

Gamestop has clarified that the Wii "rain check" promotion will only be on December 21st. It will be limited to 1 per household and there will be a "limited number" but they won't say how many. Anyone who participates will be guaranteed a Wii by January 25th.

Reggie claimed "tens of thousands of Wii" to be split among the 3000 stores of the chain. Since he didn't mention hundreds of thousands, we can only assume up to 99k, meaning roughly 30 per store in an absolute best case scenerio. Probably less.

We had at least fifty at work today, and more 'on order' today than we had when I left work yesterday.

I'm mildly encouraged.

Yea, I heard we were going to get 37 on order last week. (Usually only get 3 at a time..) We were skeptical at first, but it sounds like Gamestop isn't the only retailer that is getting big shipments of them.

What GameStop is is the only retailer that's going to get burned down by angry parents when they run out of Wii rainchecks. ;)

Japanese Sales Numbers for week ending December 16th......

Wii: 168k (+32%)
PS3 : 53k (+41%)
PS2 : 21k (+75%)
360 : 8.7k (-1%)

Big increases in sales this week for both Nintendo and Sony in the Japanese region. The Wii posted a major increase this week as Wii's are now readily available and no longer supply constrained in Japan. In addition, Wii Fit sold another 120K units and has now exceeded 500K in total sales.

Sony saw large increases in weekly sales for both the PS2 and PS3. The PS3 boost was in large part due to the release of Gran Turismo 5: Prologue (a glorified demo IMO), which sold 108K retail units and nearly 50K PSN downloads.

We had at least fifty at work today, and more 'on order' today than we had when I left work yesterday.

I'm mildly encouraged.

Yea, I heard we were going to get 37 on order last week. (Usually only get 3 at a time..) We were skeptical at first, but it sounds like Gamestop isn't the only retailer that is getting big shipments of them.

Some of my co-workers are looking for a Wii for Christmas and have pretty much given up hope. It sounds like I might should tell them to take one last look at the brick and mortar stores this weekend for a Christmas miracle?

Some of my co-workers are looking for a Wii for Christmas and have pretty much given up hope. It sounds like I might should tell them to take one last look at the brick and mortar stores this weekend for a Christmas miracle?

Sunday is likely to have a pretty good stock available if you're willing to camp out early. With many not working on Monday, you can always catch up on sleep the next day.

Sensible World of Soccer was released on XBL and then quickly pulled. Big bug evidently.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/12/19/sensible-world-of-soccer-has-critical-bug-gets-pulled/

Omega Dawn, the Warhawk booster pack was released a day early (supposed to come tomorrow). In addition, the 1.2 patch was released with a few fixes, some enhancements, and new layouts on existing maps.

Some of my co-workers are looking for a Wii for Christmas and have pretty much given up hope. It sounds like I might should tell them to take one last look at the brick and mortar stores this weekend for a Christmas miracle?

I wouldn't give up hope yet, no, but I wouldn't go camping out every night either.

Local GameStop is gonna have 16 of those little reservation slip thingies.

I'm expecting a smoking crater where the store used to be Friday afternoon.

In non-propaganda news.. (Ok, non SYSTEM propoganda news)

EA has oficially been taken over by the pod people, as they announced to the world the free game they would be offering folks whose Rock Band Guitar needed work. Everyone thought it would be old sports titles (NFL Head Coach, anyone?) and everything that they needed to clear out. instead, they're offering.. just about everything.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/rock-band/free-ea-games-are-actually-not-bad-ie-ask-for-skate-335057.php

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/eagames.jpg

I love to blast EA at any turn, but way to step up on this one. That's one hell of a list to address the problem.

SI

Local GameStop is gonna have 16 of those little reservation slip thingies.

I'm expecting a smoking crater where the store used to be Friday afternoon.

Yep, i pity the minwage workers that are going to get way to much harassment that day.

New PS3 bundle announced for late January in Japan. Capcom has agreed to exclusively bundle Devil May Cry 4 with the white 40 GB PS3. Should boost sales over there as DMC4 is a very popular franchise in Japan.

http://www.project-tideas.com/playstation-3/new-devil-may-cry-4-ps3-console-bundle

Rockstar announces that one of the two pieces of 360 exclusive content for Grand Theft Auto 4 will be delayed until 2009. The first piece of exclusive content will still be released when the game is released.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8398&Itemid=2

Microsoft marketing head speaks about 2008. Certainly interesting that he openly comments on how important the European market is to their ultimate success.............

http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7166505

Microsoft Corp expects to sell more Xbox 360 consoles in 2008 than in 2007, with Europe standing out as a key battleground for dominance in the $30 billion video game industry.

In Japan, where the Xbox 360 has far lagged Nintendo Co Ltd's Wii and Sony Corp's PlayStation 3, Microsoft expects recent and upcoming games from popular Japanese designers to boost sales.

"We will sell more consoles next year than this year," Jeff Bell, head of global marketing for Microsoft's games business, told Reuters in an interview.

"We don't want to trade places with anybody," Bell said.

He said that the Xbox 360 was strong in Britain and was gaining market share in France and Germany, but that Sony had also been lifted in Europe by a recent price cut for the PS3.

"Europe for us is still the swing," Bell said. "The biggest challenge is that Sony as a brand has had greater staying power than in other areas. Not just PlayStation 3, but Sony as a brand," Bell said.

Microsoft had seen some retailers sell out of its high-end Elite model of the Xbox 360, as well as of the Arcade version. In the United States, the Elite sells for $450 and the Arcade for $280, with a Pro model also offered at $350.

Microsoft sold nearly 3.4 million Xbox 360 units in the United States through the end of November, according to market research firm NPD. Worldwide, Microsoft has sold more than 13 million Xbox 360s since its Nov. 2005 launch.

Bell, a marketing executive at car maker Chrysler before joining Microsoft last year, said his auto experience came in useful when juggling different models of gaming hardware.

"From my prior perspective of dealing with 20 automobile models and and 100 markets and dozens of variations, I don't think three (models) is a tremendous amount of complexity," Bell said.

"Is it perfect? No. Are we learning and adapting? Yes," Bell said.

Asked if Microsoft was benefiting from Nintendo's ongoing shortage of Wii machines, which cost $250, Bell said: "Sometimes you're good, sometimes you're lucky, and it's wonderful when you're both."

Bell also took a dig at Nintendo, referring to an industry perception that independent video game publishers have not enjoyed great success on the Wii so far, in part because Nintendo's own offerings are so strong.

"Clearly, we have a competitor where they win and no one else wins. That is not sustainable, it's never been sustainable," Bell said.

Nintendo's U.S. president, Reggie Fils-Aime, told Reuters earlier this week that perception was misguided, and he pointed to recent market data showing that 60 percent of Wii game sales in November came from outside publishers.

Bell also said Microsoft was sticking with the HD-DVD high-definition disc format that is a rival to Sony's Blu-ray technology used in the PlayStation 3.

"We don't have all our eggs in one basket but in classic Microsoft fashion we are committed to all those baskets," Bell said. "If you can find a partner in the HD-DVD alliance that would say anything other than Microsoft has been committed in good times and bad times, I would be surprised."

New details about Metal Gear Solid 4 feature set, including lots of new MGS Online info (Official Playstation Mag was the source). I'm especially fired up about the flashback feature to previous games..........

--- MGS4 + Metal Gear Online bundled together

--- When some scenes are shown related to other parts in the series, you can hold down a button to view a flashback from the original game. (Example: When talking about Metal Gear Rex, you can watch a flashback that plays from the earlier MG game to provide background info.) Great feature for those that haven't played previous games.

--- Estimated 4 HOURS of cinematic cut scenes in the game. (More than MGS3)

--- 16 players online.

--- Online game types include Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, King of the Hill, and Team Sneak.

--- Customizable characters can have up to three skills (like perks in COD4). Some examples are "Marathon" for sprinting and "Narc" for showing enemy positions.

--- Skills and weapons will level up the more you play.

--- 100 different weapons to acquire and use.

--- SOP system allows you to know current position of teammates, current status of teammates, and even sharing perks.

Local GameStop is gonna have 16 of those little reservation slip thingies.

I'm expecting a smoking crater where the store used to be Friday afternoon.

Why would you line up for a slip when you could line up for the actual console somewhere else?

I think your prediction might be accurate.

Rockstar announces that one of the two pieces of 360 exclusive content for Grand Theft Auto 4 will be delayed until 2009. The first piece of exclusive content will still be released when the game is released.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8398&Itemid=2

Great news for Microsoft since that will extend the impact that exclusive content will have on sales. Another blow for Sony. :D

New PS3 bundle announced for late January in Japan. Capcom has agreed to exclusively bundle Devil May Cry 4 with the white 40 GB PS3. Should boost sales over there as DMC4 is a very popular franchise in Japan.

http://www.project-tideas.com/playstation-3/new-devil-may-cry-4-ps3-console-bundle


Most people in Japan that want DMC4 probably have already bought a PS3, so I don't see this helping sales. :p

New details about Metal Gear Solid 4 feature set, including lots of new MGS Online info (Official Playstation Mag was the source). I'm especially fired up about the flashback feature to previous games..........

I wish they would make the MGS games for the PC and Xbox. That has always disappointed me. I understand why they don't, but it doesn't change how I feel about it. :(

In non-propaganda news.. (Ok, non SYSTEM propoganda news)

EA has oficially been taken over by the pod people, as they announced to the world the free game they would be offering folks whose Rock Band Guitar needed work. Everyone thought it would be old sports titles (NFL Head Coach, anyone?) and everything that they needed to clear out. instead, they're offering.. just about everything.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/rock-band/free-ea-games-are-actually-not-bad-ie-ask-for-skate-335057.php

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/12/eagames.jpg

Notice there is no Madden or NCAA football titles on that list? :rolleyes:

Roma: Come on, they're offering just about every title they sold in the last twelve months, and NBA, NASCAR and Tiger Woods isn't exactly chicken feed..

BTW, I know it's a small bump but I saw this story over on Kotaku and had to laugh.

Every year, the organisers of college football's various bowl games are allowed to spend some cash on the players taking part. It's part souvenir hunt, part pissing contest between the officials. This year, amongst the cameras and shopping sprees and hats and monogrammed travel bags was news that three bowls - Holiday, Allstate BCS National Championship and Valero Alamo - were getting Wiis for the competing teams. And the competing team's staff. And then some. All told, each bowl committee were able to get hold of around 250 Wiis. Each. That's 750 Wiis out of the retail channel. If you're going to vent your furious spleens, we'd advice you do so here. It's safer than doing it in-person

Well for the numbers that include today...

chalk up a 80 GB PS3 to my mom :D

Chalk up a 360 to me when the December numbers come out.

Forza and Marvel (a game I won't play) included. Not a bad deal for $350. Forza sounds like it's a good game (different from PG) and hopefully will hold me over until after the New Year when I pick up my first sports game.

Forza sounds like it's a good game (different from PG) and hopefully will hold me over until after the New Year when I pick up my first sports game.
I love Forza - good racing game, lots of customization available in tuning your car (and applying custom graphics if you so choose), good online component if you are into that.

Japan Console Sales Numbers are in. Wii sees a huge boost in numbers as Wii Fit continues to sell well and benefit from ample Wii supply channels in Japan. PS2 sales see a bump over the previous week with PS3 and 360 numbers remaining at previous week numbers.

Sales numbers for week ending December 23rd:

Wii: 264k (+57%)
PS3: 51k (-4%)
PS2: 24k (+14%)
360: 8.1k (-7%)

Some compliments from Japan concerning the strength of Western developers...........

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16757

Finally got my Wii set up Christmas Eve and messed with it off and on yesterday. My almost-5-year-old daughter tied me in a game of Wii Sports baseball when she couldn't time the swing of the bat (even outside with real ball and bat she swings as soon as you pitch), and I never could figure out when her 56 MPH fastball would hit in front of the plate or zoom in for a strike, so we tied 0-0. Played golf against my brother and lost by 2 strokes after I had a 9 stroke lead heading into the final hole when I had a Kevin Costner moment and tried 3 separate times to skip one of the islands and boinked it off the cliff (literally inches short) each time. My wife and I love tennis. And my daughter had very little trouble creating her Mii all on her own, I just had to help point at some of the colors which are smaller boxes.

But the accessories will nickel and dime me to death. Need another WiiMote (so 3 of us can play at once), a pair of recharging stations since I'll end up needing 3 batteries, and the wired ethernet adapter so we can hook up to the net.

But the accessories will nickel and dime me to death. Need another WiiMote (so 3 of us can play at once), a pair of recharging stations since I'll end up needing 3 batteries, and the wired ethernet adapter so we can hook up to the net.

Yeah, the extra nunchuks, Wiimotes, and component cable all add up. To get a family of 4 playing Wii Sports, you'll have to spend around $200 to get the extras. Makes the system more expensive, but the games like Wii Sports aren't any fun if you don't have everyone involved.

Japan Console Sales Numbers are in. Wii sees a huge boost in numbers as Wii Fit continues to sell well and benefit from ample Wii supply channels in Japan. PS2 sales see a bump over the previous week with PS3 and 360 numbers remaining at previous week numbers.

Sales numbers for week ending December 23rd:


Another major blow for Sony. Last week the Wii was outselling them 3:1 in Japan, this week it's been increased to 5:1. That's a huge increase for Nintendo in the biggest market that Sony has shown any ability to compete.

Another major blow for Sony. Last week the Wii was outselling them 3:1 in Japan, this week it's been increased to 5:1. That's a huge increase for Nintendo in the biggest market that Sony has shown any ability to compete.

Not sure that it's a blow per se. Nintendo is just finally reaching sales numbers that it should have had weeks ago if it would have had had ample supply. Most analysts haven't found much of a relation between Wii sales and any correlation with PS3/360 sales changes. It's not there because they are getting most of their sales from a different demographic.

The slight Sony decrease in sales over the previous week would be a bigger concern than any changes in Wii sales. Despite the previous week boost due to GT5:Prologue release, I'm sure they were expecting an increase of some size.

Yeah, the extra nunchuks, Wiimotes, and component cable all add up. To get a family of 4 playing Wii Sports, you'll have to spend around $200 to get the extras. Makes the system more expensive, but the games like Wii Sports aren't any fun if you don't have everyone involved.

You can get the charging station online (monoprice) for like $15-20. You'll need two though.

Wiimote and Nunchuck will cost you $60 (yikes).


My parents made me bring the Wii home for xmas. They got a little wii sports in before my sister stole the TV and played like 4 hours of Super Mario Galaxy.

Yeah, the extra nunchuks, Wiimotes, and component cable all add up. To get a family of 4 playing Wii Sports, you'll have to spend around $200 to get the extras. Makes the system more expensive, but the games like Wii Sports aren't any fun if you don't have everyone involved.

First off, I love your *subtle* Wii-bashing, as usual. Second off, Wii Sports is plenty of fun by yourself, so don't throw the "aren't any fun" line out like that is some kind of fact. Last off, the cost of the accessories is no different than buying 3 extra wireless XBox controllers or PS3 controllers.

Don't your bosses let you take a couple days off even at Christmas?

First off, I love your *subtle* Wii-bashing, as usual. Second off, Wii Sports is plenty of fun by yourself, so don't throw the "aren't any fun" line out like that is some kind of fact. Last off, the cost of the accessories is no different than buying 3 extra wireless XBox controllers or PS3 controllers.

Seriously, get over yourself. I own a Wii. Someone brought up how much the accessories cost and I mentioned how much it cost me. I didn't state anything inaccurate in the post.

Sure, you can play Wii Sports on your own, but the game (as well as most of the Wii games) is much better when you play with multiple players. Only a reclusive loner (insert a picture of your favorite reclusive serial killer) would think otherwise.

(insert a picture of your favorite reclusive serial killer)

Where is that picture of Cringer anyway? ;)

Where is that picture of Cringer anyway? ;)

You can find him looking for 5 year old kids to beat up. :)

Some gaming news to pass on............

Microsoft plans to join Sony and Nintendo by releasing a controller with a motion sensor:

http://xboxfamily.com/xf/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1107&Itemid=2

Halo Wars producer excited about upcoming game:

http://www.gametap.com/home/read/article/2656

Microsoft lays down another round of bans. Reportedly, some of the bans went to users who modded their vent fans to avoid RROD issues. I'm guessing that just as many bans went to cheaters:

http://loot-ninja.com/2007/12/26/microsoft-brings-the-ban-hammer-for-christmas/

Another delay announced for the PS3 exclusive Haze. It now has a Summer 2008 release date. The game was still pretty buggy and unpolished, so they delayed the game to avoid another Lair-like fiasco.

Any links to info on bans because of modding vent fans? That link mentioned nothing of the sort. Unless you are replacing chips or modding firmware, there really isn't a way for Microsoft to know.

Any links to info on bans because of modding vent fans? That link mentioned nothing of the sort. Unless you are replacing chips or modding firmware, there really isn't a way for Microsoft to know.

Below is a quote from the 360patches.com forums. My understanding is that they have developed a modification in this group to speed up the fan which can be detected by Microsoft and is flagged as a mod. With that said, I'm not sure if this user has much of an argument as he did modify the console in some way, even if it was to try and reduce the heat in the console.

Quote from Microsoft Xbox Live TOS "The Service may only be accessed with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console or by logging into your account via Xbox.com.? If you are accessing the Service via an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console, you agree that? you are using authorized software and hardware, and that your software and hardware have not been modified in any unauthorized way"

You may be thinking well why is he quoting this?? Well because Microsoft have started banning xbox 360's with modded cooling. So if you've done the 12v mod your in risk of being banned for it. How do I know this?? Because a friend of mine just had a nice chat with Microsoft about why he was banned and they explained it was because he had non-stock/modded fans.

Yes Microsoft Seem's to be going ban bad, Merry Xmas to you to Microsoft.

Some really interesting worldwide sales numbers for the first three weeks in December (standard disclaimer applies for the North American sales numbers from VGChartz.com). Roughly speaking, the Wii has doubled the sales numbers of the 360, PS3 and PS2. Interestingly enough, the 360, PS3 and PS2 stand at a virtual dead heat throught the first three weeks. I'm not terribly surprised that the 360 and PS3 are close, but the fact that the PS2 is still going blow for blow with the 360 and PS3 surprises me quite a bit.

The final week of sales in December, which includes the last week of X-mas sales, should be available in a week or so. Below are the raw numbers............

Worldwide Sales Totals through 3rd week of December

Wii: 2,884,000
PS3: 1,584,000
360: 1,576,000
PS2: 1,561,000



North America December Totals through December 22nd

Wii: 1,177,000
360: 995,000
PS2: 750,000
PS3: 588,000

NA Week ending December 22nd

Wii: 741K
360: 367K
PS2: 302K
PS3: 226K

NA Week ending December 15th

360: 331K
PS2: 254K
PS3: 192K
Wii: 174K

NA Week ending December 8th

360: 278K
Wii: 262K
PS2: 194K
PS3: 170K



Japan December Totals through December 23nd

Wii: 552,000
PS3: 154,000
PS2: 57,000
360: 27,000

Japan Week ending December 23nd

Wii: 269K
PS3: 55K
PS2: 23K
360: 9K

Japan Week ending December 16th

Wii: 170K
PS3: 60K
PS2: 20K
360: 9K

Japan Week ending December 9th

Wii: 113K
PS3: 39K
PS2: 14K
360: 9K



PAL December Totals through December 22nd

Wii: 1,155,000
PS3: 842,000
PS2: 754,000
360: 554,000

PAL Week ending December 22nd

Wii: 448K
PS3: 338K
PS2: 299K
360: 219K

PAL Week ending December 15th

Wii: 346K
PS3: 273K
PS2: 245K
360: 184K

PAL Week ending December 8th

Wii: 361K
PS3: 231K
PS2: 210K
360: 151K

Seriously, get over yourself. I own a Wii. Someone brought up how much the accessories cost and I mentioned how much it cost me. I didn't state anything inaccurate in the post.

Sure, you can play Wii Sports on your own, but the game (as well as most of the Wii games) is much better when you play with multiple players. Only a reclusive loner (insert a picture of your favorite reclusive serial killer) would think otherwise.

Get over myself? Merry Christmas to you too...

But anyways, my point stands. Read that post of yours again, slowly:

"Yeah, the extra nunchuks, Wiimotes, and component cable all add up. To get a family of 4 playing Wii Sports, you'll have to spend around $200 to get the extras. Makes the system more expensive, but the games like Wii Sports aren't any fun if you don't have everyone involved."

Is it technically, factually accurate? Sure, and of course I never denied that. Does it imply that to have fun with the system you need to spend $200? Yes. Do the undertones suggest that this makes it less of a value than it would normally seem? Yes. Does this also imply that, by omission, the other systems do not incur this 'necessary' expense and therefore are of better value? Yes.

I also love how you throw in the component cables, even though the post that lead to yours makes no mention of needing them, and they in now way tie in to enjoying Wii Sports. You just slip 'em in for fun, because you can.

See, this is the fun part of your little game. You can look at your paragraphs and sentances and state "I only tell the truth", but you also leave out other important truths, or choose words and sentance structure that adds meaning beneath the overt statements (especially when taken in conjunction with previous statements made in the past). It's like you are some kind of modern-day, video-game system obsessed Shakespeare.

Get over myself? Merry Christmas to you too...

But anyways, my point stands. Read that post of yours again, slowly:

"Yeah, the extra nunchuks, Wiimotes, and component cable all add up. To get a family of 4 playing Wii Sports, you'll have to spend around $200 to get the extras. Makes the system more expensive, but the games like Wii Sports aren't any fun if you don't have everyone involved."

Is it technically, factually accurate? Sure, and of course I never denied that. Does it imply that to have fun with the system you need to spend $200? Yes. Do the undertones suggest that this makes it less of a value than it would normally seem? Yes. Does this also imply that, by omission, the other systems do not incur this 'necessary' expense and therefore are of better value? Yes.

I also love how you throw in the component cables, even though the post that lead to yours makes no mention of needing them, and they in now way tie in to enjoying Wii Sports. You just slip 'em in for fun, because you can.

See, this is the fun part of your little game. You can look at your paragraphs and sentances and state "I only tell the truth", but you also leave out other important truths, or choose words and sentance structure that adds meaning beneath the overt statements (especially when taken in conjunction with previous statements made in the past). It's like you are some kind of modern-day, video-game system obsessed Shakespeare.

You have far too much time on your hands. Spend more time on your Wii and less time thinking about what you think I'm saying. You'll be better off in the long run. You'll thank me later.

You have far too much time on your hands. Spend more time on your Wii and less time thinking about what you think I'm saying. You'll be better off in the long run. You'll thank me later.

You are a funny, warped man.

You are a funny, warped man.

I 'heart' Wii.

(waits for Fidelio's translation of that comment)

But anyways, my point stands. Read that post of yours again, slowly:

"Yeah, the extra nunchuks, Wiimotes, and component cable all add up. To get a family of 4 playing Wii Sports, you'll have to spend around $200 to get the extras. Makes the system more expensive, but the games like Wii Sports aren't any fun if you don't have everyone involved."

Is it technically, factually accurate? Sure, and of course I never denied that. Does it imply that to have fun with the system you need to spend $200? Yes. Do the undertones suggest that this makes it less of a value than it would normally seem? Yes. Does this also imply that, by omission, the other systems do not incur this 'necessary' expense and therefore are of better value? Yes.

I also love how you throw in the component cables, even though the post that lead to yours makes no mention of needing them, and they in now way tie in to enjoying Wii Sports. You just slip 'em in for fun, because you can.

I hate the way Mizzouh B-Ball Fan argues his points, and have railed on him regularly. And I agree he spins even this a bit more negatively. However, as the person who started this particular thread-of-discussion, let me clarify a bit and back up his point some.

We just set up our Wii for Christmas and started playing. We bought a $400 bundle ripoff at BJs which included an extra WiiMote and Nunchuk. I've only played one game so far that takes advantage of the Nunchuk (MLB Power Pros), so I'm not sure how important the extra Nunchuk will be. But we got the extra controller.

Yesterday I spent $90 at GameStop on a Nyko dual-charger, which came with 2 batteries + 2 rubber-grip covers, and an extra battery and cover, which was necessary for the third WiiMote I also bought. This was thanks to my almost-5-year-old getting into the baseball and bowling games, so now the three of us can play together. That third WiiMote came with one of the jackets, and now we may have to get two more of them after I rapped my wife's knuckles swinging for one of her backhand return volleys. I'm sure we'll be buying the fourth WiiMote in a year or two when the 2-1/2 year old discovers the Wii, or maybe sooner for when my brother and sister-in-law visit and want to get in on the action.

Playing baseball with my daughter this morning, I was struck by a sudden desire to duct-tape a WiiMote to one of their bats to take a better swing at the ball. Or I'll end up getting two of those SportsPack things, since my wife and I play tennis a lot and I can't get just one racket.

And of course I'm a wired guy, so if I want system updates I need the wired ethernet adapter, if I can ever find one again. Plus my daughter has been eyeing a bunch of GameCube games over the last 3 months, so now I need some GameCube controllers. And if I had the input available, I'd buy the component cables for the extra resolution. I need it to help me judge the speed of that incoming pitch...

What's the point of this narration? I primarily have 3:

It is a myth that the Wii is cheaper than the 360 (specifically the 360, as the PS3 is still a bit higher). They are pretty close in price if you want to play 2-player, but the Wii encourages more than 2-player play, and the motion controller just begs for a variety of attachments to make it easier to use in various scenarios. And the base controller is NOT universal: you need something else to play GameCube games, and another something else to play Virtual Console games, unless you are lucky enough to track down one of the third-party options that will do both. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I believe that times have changed and am just trying to point out the misconception that still seems to be floating around. As always on FOFC, we look out for each other.
Nintendo is a genius at marketing. I guess we all figured this out by now, but they are lined up to sell far more accessories than any of the other systems. I might buy a racing wheel for my 360 (maybe, even reduced to $100 I'm not sure I'd get that much out of it), but I'm set with 2 controllers, battery packs, and a charger. Nintendo will make a killing on extra hardware, in addition to the games. I need to buy some of this stock fast...
This system is addicting as all get-out. It's worth every penny I'm sinking into it. I'll continue to back the "it is most certainly a next-gen system" to the hilt. It has plenty of power for the games it wants to sell, and the motion controller is changing the way people play. I made the mistake of setting up a 9-inning WiiMote game on MLB Power Pros, and my shoulder and elbow were KILLING me by the time I was done. And it's the first time I worked up a sweat playing a game. And I wanted to play more. My wife and I love the tennis game. My daughter loves the bowling. None of the talk of finances above in any way detracts from the value of the console.Just sayin' that I think the 360 (with the recent Microsoft bundles) and the Wii are in the same ballpark on price to play the systems the way they were meant to be played. PS3 is still a bit more, although you get the Blu-Ray player. And the Wii is a fantastic system that lives up to the hype.

Microsoft dropped the ball the last couple weeks with Xbox live, for a pay service there shouldn't be as many down periods as there have been. Especially since they had to know this was gonna be such a busy period. I wasn't able to recover my gamer tag yesterday at all (which made it pointless to try to play anything), everytime it'd let me half way through the process then tell me it was unavailable. Eventually got thru when I was up this morning.


And speaking of which, is there another way of going about using your live profile on another console (in the same house)? Have two 360's here and everytime we play certain games online (Rock band, bomberman ect) we'll play on one console but then we'll have to recover the gamertag to play on live together, then recover it again to get it back on the other system - it's a tedious process when you're only playing for say half an hour, or an hour.

The 360 rocks in Japan so much they can't handle it.

And speaking of which, is there another way of going about using your live profile on another console (in the same house)? Have two 360's here and everytime we play certain games online (Rock band, bomberman ect) we'll play on one console but then we'll have to recover the gamertag to play on live together, then recover it again to get it back on the other system - it's a tedious process when you're only playing for say half an hour, or an hour.

You can save a profile to a memory card.

Any reason you aren't playing these games online using both consoles?

And the base controller is NOT universal: you need something else to play GameCube games, and another something else to play Virtual Console games, unless you are lucky enough to track down one of the third-party options that will do both.

Or you could, you know, use your GameCube controller to play both your GameCube games *and* your Virtual Console games.

It's a breathtakingly daring idea, I know. :)

I just thought of how between my sister, my brother, and myself, we bought our kids 3 DS's and 1 Wii this year for Christmas. Nintendo is kid powered up the wazoo in this family at least.

I just got the RROD on my 360 and started to freak.... then I realized my VGA connector wasn't plugged in all the way.... whew!

I have it connected VGA in my office to my monitor and the have an additional power supply and hooked up via component cables in the living room for GH and Rock Band playing. It's so nice to just unplug the connectors and move only the box between the 2 rooms.

Super Mario Galaxy has won Gamespot's Game of the Year, beating out God of War 2, Rock Band, Halo 3, Bioshock, CoD4, Crysis, Forza 2, The Orange Box, and World in Conflict.

Not bad for a game that plays on a gimmick system.

6 of the 10 nominations are 360 games. At least Sony managed to get a PS2 game on the list.

This has been a great year for games...

You can save a profile to a memory card.

Any reason you aren't playing these games online using both consoles?

For Rock Band it'd require us to buy another copy of the game to play on both consoles, plus half the fun is playing with someone in the same room. It's also easier keeping all that stuff in the other room.

Super Mario Galaxy has won Gamespot's Game of the Year, beating out God of War 2, Rock Band, Halo 3, Bioshock, CoD4, Crysis, Forza 2, The Orange Box, and World in Conflict.

Not bad for a game that plays on a gimmick system.

6 of the 10 nominations are 360 games. At least Sony managed to get a PS2 game on the list.

I haven't played SMG, but better than Rock Band? I doubt that.

I just got the RROD on my 360 and started to freak.... then I realized my VGA connector wasn't plugged in all the way.... whew!

I have it connected VGA in my office to my monitor and the have an additional power supply and hooked up via component cables in the living room for GH and Rock Band playing. It's so nice to just unplug the connectors and move only the box between the 2 rooms.

Too bad you can't just snake a 50'-75' length of component tinto the other room. Wouldn't even have to move the box then!

This has been a great year for games...

Yeah for sure.

2008 has the potential to be pretty good as well. GTA4, MSG4, LittleBigPlanet, Mario Kart Wii, and Advance Wars: Days of Ruin, and Spore are the ones I'm looking forward to most, there's plenty of other big games coming as well.

I haven't played SMG, but better than Rock Band? I doubt that.

Haven't played rock band even though i want to badly... have played guitar hero and karaoke revolution though so I think I have a pretty good idea what rock band is like. I have played through Super Mario Galaxy though and can say that I had more fun with it than any other single player console game I've ever played in my life.

When will Leisure Suit Larry come to a console? Maybe the Police Quest/Space Quest games?

When will Leisure Suit Larry come to a console? Maybe the Police Quest/Space Quest games?

Already been done.

hxxp://www.gamespot.com/xbox/adventure/leisuresuitlarrymcl/index.html?tag=result;title;9

Already been done.

hxxp://www.gamespot.com/xbox/adventure/leisuresuitlarrymcl/index.html?tag=result;title;9

Ah, I never had the original XBox so I guess that is why I missed it. I am guessing it won game of the year that year right? ;)

They need a Wii one. Wiisterbation would finally destroy the 360 and PS3.

Or you could, you know, use your GameCube controller to play both your GameCube games *and* your Virtual Console games.

It's a breathtakingly daring idea, I know. :)

Did not know you could do that. Thanks!

I 'heart' Wii.

(waits for Fidelio's translation of that comment)

You are funny. Seriously.

Too bad you can't just snake a 50'-75' length of component tinto the other room. Wouldn't even have to move the box then!

OOoohhh.. now you have me thinking. :D

Haven't played rock band even though i want to badly... have played guitar hero and karaoke revolution though so I think I have a pretty good idea what rock band is like. I have played through Super Mario Galaxy though and can say that I had more fun with it than any other single player console game I've ever played in my life.

I really don't think you have a good idea what Rock Bank is about. The drums are what it's all about.. and a guitar which is better than any GH guitar ever created. Match that with another guitar and the microphone and you have a masterpiece of gaming the WHOLE FAMILY can enjoy.

When I can play a game for hours with my wife, 11 year old and 5 year old daughter for hours, I'd say it's my game of the year.

Yeah for sure.

2008 has the potential to be pretty good as well. GTA4, MSG4, LittleBigPlanet, Mario Kart Wii, and Advance Wars: Days of Ruin, and Spore are the ones I'm looking forward to most, there's plenty of other big games coming as well.

You left off Duke Nuke'em Forever. I have had that on my "looking forward to" list since 1998. :)

When I can play a game for hours with my wife, 11 year old and 5 year old daughter for hours, I'd say it's my game of the year.

You just described Wii Sports ;)

Just sayin' that I think the 360 (with the recent Microsoft bundles) and the Wii are in the same ballpark on price to play the systems the way they were meant to be played.

Since 360/PS3 are 'meant to be played' in HD, doesn't that mean for many, many consumers they would have to throw the cost of an HD television in to the mix of accessories? I know there have been some good sales on over the holiday period, but methinks that cost might add up to a bit more than a couple Wiimotes... ;)

I 'heart' Wii.

(waits for Fidelio's translation of that comment)

Slag off, Wii-basher!!

Since 360/PS3 are 'meant to be played' in HD, doesn't that mean for many, many consumers they would have to throw the cost of an HD television in to the mix of accessories? I know there have been some good sales on over the holiday period, but methinks that cost might add up to a bit more than a couple Wiimotes... ;)

That makes as much sense as the comments earlier claiming you have to buy a bunch of extra wiimotes to have fun with the wii.

That makes as much sense as the comments earlier claiming you have to buy a bunch of extra wiimotes to have fun with the wii.

Exactly.

I made the mistake of setting up a 9-inning WiiMote game on MLB Power Pros, and my shoulder and elbow were KILLING me by the time I was done. And it's the first time I worked up a sweat playing a game.

pics plz k thx

Xbox 360 head of marketing states that lack of third-party sales on Wii make current sales numbers unsustainable.............

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=154048

Xbox head of marketing, Jeff Bell, says Wii success wont last since third-party developers have yet to show they can make any money on Nintendo consoles.

"Clearly, we have a competitor where they win and no one else wins," Bell told Reuters in reference to the overwhelming popularity of first-party games on Nintendo platforms. "That is not sustainable, it's never been sustainable," he said.

Third-party publishers have struggled in past years to compete with Nintendo-made games given their critically acclaimed quality and loyal following.

Nintendo says times have changed.

Earlier this week, Nintendo president Reggie Fils-Aime told Reuters that 60 percent of Wii game sales came from outside publishers in November.

Opening of Devil May Cry 4 is now available for viewing. Pretty sick stuff.........

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/12/29/devil-may-cry-4-opening-cinematic-is-very-cinematic-indeed/

Opening of Devil May Cry 4 is now available for viewing. Pretty sick stuff.........

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/12/29/devil-may-cry-4-opening-cinematic-is-very-cinematic-indeed/

Nero looked drunk at the end in the theater.

Xbox 360 head of marketing states that lack of third-party sales on Wii make current sales numbers unsustainable.............

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=154048


That's not the way I read that.

Edit: To clarify, that's not the way I interpret his actual comment.

That's not the way I read that.

Edit: To clarify, that's not the way I interpret his actual comment.

I'm not sure it matters exactly how it's interpreted. It was a backhanded compliment at best. :) Whether it's accurate or not is certainly up for discussion.

Since 360/PS3 are 'meant to be played' in HD, doesn't that mean for many, many consumers they would have to throw the cost of an HD television in to the mix of accessories? I know there have been some good sales on over the holiday period, but methinks that cost might add up to a bit more than a couple Wiimotes... ;)

Sigh. Fine, whatever. Maybe I need to put a poll up: how much have you spent on accessories for your Wii beyond the initial $250 outlay for the console?

Yeah, I read it as "The success of first-party games" is not sustainable rather than it having any impact on hardware sales.

What utter bullshit from Jeff Bell there :D

I mean yeah he's an XBox PR guy but still, many third-party games have done and are doing well on the Wii. Both Resident Evil games, Lego Star Wars, Guitar Hero III (despite supply constraints), Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games (published by Sega in North America and Europe), Tiger Woods, plus various launch titles.

Zack and Wiki is the only high quality third party game that has bombed, which is unsurprising if you've played it. First of all, it had no advertising and it is very much a niche title, being an old-school puzzle/adventure game with a "kiddy" presentation that's too difficult for children to play.

Despite the present figures being pretty decent, I want to see how third-party Wii games sell when they are given the effort and polish (while still being cheaper to produce due to Wii's SD graphics) put into other systems' third-party games (like Gears of War or Bioshock) and Nintendo's own offerings (Galaxy, Metroid, Zelda, etc.)

If that never happens, whether it's due to publishers being afraid of competing against Nintendo's own games or developers preferring to work with the HD consoles, then I don't want to read any rubbish about how "awww third parties just can't compete against big, bad Nintendo :( :( ," especially when it's dubious even now.

Sigh. Fine, whatever. Maybe I need to put a poll up: how much have you spent on accessories for your Wii beyond the initial $250 outlay for the console?

My situation:

Extra Wiimote + Nunchuck = $60

Wavebird wireless GameCube controller = $35 (not technically needed, but allows for a third player on some Virtual Console games like Bomberman, will be used in Smash, plus I bought some GameCube games early in the year when Wii had a bit of a software drought)

Gamecube memory card = $20

An assload of batteries (I heard some bad things about those Nyko chargers bricking Wiimotes, no idea how often that happens or if it's even true) = $ ???

Also, Virtual Console games add up = $82 for nine games, purely optional of course

This happens with other consoles as well now of course.

PS3 and 360 controllers are $50, cheaper or more expensive depending on if you need a Wiimote.

You have to buy an HDMI cable for the PS3 since it only comes with composite, not much point buying a $400-500 HD console to play on composite cables, couldn't tell you if that applies for the 360 or not.

People who buy an extra PS3 controller now are wasting money and many will end up getting a rumble controller early in 2008 when they come out here. Too expensive to import with the exchange rate imo.

360 wireless adapter is $90-100 which is crazy, the $50 per year for online play adds up after a few years even if $4 p/m doesn't sound bad on paper.

It's arguable that the Wii nickel and dimes you more than the others but it's not that big a difference. Gaming is expensive no matter how you slice it unless you only play handhelds.

360 wireless adapter is $90-100 which is crazy, the $50 per year for online play adds up after a few years even if $4 p/m doesn't sound bad on paper.

I agree, the price is crazy. If it was $50 I would have bought one a long time ago. As it is I refuse to pay that much for it, and because of that I have not ever been on XBox Live and they miss out on more money from me there too I guess.

I think the 360 execs comments were geared toward software and I think he's probably right. While the Wii will continue to dominate in console sales, I'm still not convinced there is a huge market for non first party Nintendo titles. I'm interested to see how that plays out long term.

Of course, the console getting it's ass kicked there now is the PS3. Under 1 million software sales in a week where the Wii and the 360 were at 3 million. 500k software sales for the PSP when the DS had close to 2.5 million.

I think the 360 execs comments were geared toward software and I think he's probably right. While the Wii will continue to dominate in console sales, I'm still not convinced there is a huge market for non first party Nintendo titles. I'm interested to see how that plays out long term.

Of course, the console getting it's ass kicked there now is the PS3. Under 1 million software sales in a week where the Wii and the 360 were at 3 million. 500k software sales for the PSP when the DS had close to 2.5 million.

Part of the problem is that some of the best third-party games on Wii also haven't gotten any marketing support. It's like some of the third-parties expect things to be like they were in the NES days, where all you had to do was release it and wait for the money to roll in.

It's going to be damned hard, yeah, for 'Zack & Wiki' to compete for sales against "Super Mario Galaxy," but it's going to be even harder if you don't spend any money advertising it.

That sucks that Zack and Wiki bombed, I just got it for my birthday a couple days ago and it is super fun :(

That sucks that Zack and Wiki bombed, I just got it for my birthday a couple days ago and it is super fun :(

Yeah, only 35k over October and November apparently. Capcom had trouble getting retailers to even carry this game from what I've read. On the bright side, the game is being published by Nintendo in Europe, maybe they will actually try to advertise it. Also, interweb rumors suggest Capcom is already planning a Zack and Wiki 2 despite the low sales.

I do agree, it is a very fun game.

Of course, the console getting it's ass kicked there now is the PS3. Under 1 million software sales in a week where the Wii and the 360 were at 3 million. 500k software sales for the PSP when the DS had close to 2.5 million.

Haha, you are like Missou BBall fan in reverse.

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned all week. There's been a pretty heavy backlash against Microsoft over the past week concerning the Xbox Live outage. The outage had lasted over a week as of the writing of this column. Really surprised that Microsoft would let this happen on one of the most crucial weeks of the year in regards to use of the service. The worst part is that many people haven't been able to play any downloaded games due to the stipulation that users must log in to Live to play those games (copy protection).

http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/12/31/unhappy-xbox-live-users-demand-compensation/

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned all week. There's been a pretty heavy backlash against Microsoft over the past week concerning the Xbox Live outage. The outage had lasted over a week as of the writing of this column. Really surprised that Microsoft would let this happen on one of the most crucial weeks of the year in regards to use of the service. The worst part is that many people haven't been able to play any downloaded games due to the stipulation that users must log in to Live to play those games (copy protection).

http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/12/31/unhappy-xbox-live-users-demand-compensation/
I definitely mentioned in both the NBA 2k thread and the Gamertag thread that I couldn't even got on to sign-up for my account. Fortuanetely for me I must have been at the tail end as I couldn't get in one night, but the next day everything was peachy.

If it would have gone on for several days for me I would have been pretty pissed.