Reds...

Not sure if they'll show up but I definitely think Boone used and I think Larkin did for at least one season. I don't think he did but I wouldn't be shocked if Griffey's name showed up.

Worst thread ever

The Mitchell Report is about as fraudulent as Bud Selig.

Don't know, Don't care.

And "". to what Dark Cloud said.

The Mitchell Report is about as fraudulent as Bud Selig.

Selig isn't fraudulent. He's exactly the dumb, self-serving jerk he appears to be.

That only took 4 posts for Dark Cloud and Crapshoot to come out with their heads-up-their-ass stance. So predictable

That only took 4 posts for Dark Cloud and Crapshoot to come out with their heads-up-their-ass stance. So predictable

About as long as it took you to come with the "I'm an old self-righteous fart" bit. :rolleyes:

Astros=Everyone

Crapshoots team=Everyone

MLB=Everyone

Who knows who did it, but a couple of things are clear.

The good guys who did it only did because of injuries.

The bad guys who did it only did it to cheat the game.

Who knows who did it, but a couple of things are clear.

The good guys who did it only did because of injuries.

The bad guys who did it only did it to cheat the game.


your forgeting, the good guys are the ones the press take turns blowing. the "bad guys" are the ones that dont get along with the press much

As a Cubs fan, I'll just say Sosa and let anyone else be a suprise :P

Depends on how far back this goes, but some names I would suspect to see are Brian Giles, Kevin Young, Jay Bell, and Jeff King.

Is this actually getting released?

Gagne probably juiced

I don't expect to see many names. My guess is six to eight total. Just enough to show that baseball is "serious".

I'd guess Brett Boone and probably Aaron as well. I disagree about Larkin. I really doubt it with Griffey. If any of the pitchers were, they didn't get their money's worth.

I don't expect to see many names. My guess is six to eight total. Just enough to show that baseball is "serious".

I'd guess Brett Boone and probably Aaron as well. I disagree about Larkin. I really doubt it with Griffey. If any of the pitchers were, they didn't get their money's worth.

It's been stated that every team will be affected in some way. I have no doubt Larkin used in '96 but I think the whole league was at that point.

I am going to go out on a limb and say none of the current Marlins will be on the list.

Burrell, Abreu, Lieberthal, Randy Wolf, David Bell, Jose Fucking Mesa, Lidle(rip)

Astros=Everyone


Bite me! It was only Caminiti, dammit!

I'm gonna throw myself off a bridge when it comes out that Bags juiced :(

Mike Piazza and Ivan Rodriguez for sure.

Steve Balboni

Ronnie Gant

I don't know if he'll be in the report or not, but I know for a fact that a certain former rookie of the year did one cycle of steroids. A family member of mine went to high school with him and is good friends with him to this day. Let's just say he'll be set for life, but won't be getting a big contract anytime soon.

I don't know if he'll be in the report or not, but I know for a fact that a certain former rookie of the year did one cycle of steroids. A family member of mine went to high school with him and is good friends with him to this day. Let's just say he'll be set for life, but won't be getting a big contract anytime soon.

Damn you, Jerome Walton and Chris Sabo!

SI

It's been stated that every team will be affected in some way. I have no doubt Larkin used in '96 but I think the whole league was at that point.

But I doubt they'll name a lot of players. The liability for doing so would be extreme. If they don't ave a confession or iron clad evidence they would be foolish to list one-hundred names of "probable" users. It would take about a day to get a few billion dollars worth of defamation lawsuits.

Of course I also have a hard time believing that baseball will really come clean. It seems so against their nature.

Damn you, Jerome Walton and Chris Sabo!

SI

haha, nope.

think last decade or so.

haha, nope.

think last decade or so.

And the winner is Ben Grieve.

I don't know if he'll be in the report or not, but I know for a fact that a certain former rookie of the year did one cycle of steroids. A family member of mine went to high school with him and is good friends with him to this day. Let's just say he'll be set for life, but won't be getting a big contract anytime soon.

Hinske?

Both are logical guesses and one is correct.

One of my employees went to school with both of the Sweeney brothers and said they were on the juice

Scott Williamson!?

<-----Cardinals fan

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Mark McGwire might show up on the list.

I'm gonna throw myself off a bridge IF it comes out that Bags juiced :(

Fixed. He was my favourite player for awhile because of his stance, OBP, SB, HR power, etc. I really hope he's clean. :(:(

Giants: Bonds, Santiago, Felix Rodriguez wouldn't shock me, Galaragga, maybe Kent (though he doesn't have the body).

Galaragga? No way. Not unless you think the entire Rockies organization 'roided up (which I suppose is entirely possible)...

Giants: Bonds, Santiago, Felix Rodriguez wouldn't shock me, Galaragga, maybe Kent (though he doesn't have the body).

Bobby Estalella. Not that it did any good.

Galaragga? No way. Not unless you think the entire Rockies organization 'roided up (which I suppose is entirely possible)...

After his cancer with the Giants. He comes to the Giants with all these old guys who are having resurrections (Santiago, for instance) one year and he starts doing well again. Just seems odd.

Each of the Blake Street Bombers, from what I have heard (which went back to 1995).

It's interesting to see some names of guys who I might not have thought about. Bagwell will be very interesting to me. I really hope he's not on there but I have a feeling he might very well be.

BTW, I don't know how anything else can explain when Brady Anderson hit 50 home runs in a season.

BTW, I don't know how anything else can explain when Brady Anderson hit 50 home runs in a season.

That season is either the year it was at it's worst or they were playing with a bouncy-ball that season. The homerun numbers for so many guys were just so far off of their career highs prior to that.

After his cancer with the Giants. He comes to the Giants with all these old guys who are having resurrections (Santiago, for instance) one year and he starts doing well again. Just seems odd.

His first year back was in 2000 with the Braves where he had a better than expected season with a 122 OPS+. His highest OPS with the Giants was 127. If any year sticks out for Andres, it's the stunning 1998 season with the Braves, when he put together the highest OPS+ of his career at age 37.

Andruw Jones.

BTW, I don't know how anything else can explain when Brady Anderson hit 50 home runs in a season.

A couple things here - I have no idea if Brady Anderson was on the juice. I'll assume he was, and I'll assume the majority of ballplayers were in the time period. FWIW, Brady Anderson was always a guy who spent a lot of time in the gym and still does. Now, that could either provide more "evidence" or not based on what you believe.

To get back to the point of my original comment - I always find the mention of his hitting 50+ homeruns as evidence of steroid use to be bas-ackwards. He went from 16 HRs to 50 and then back to 18 in 1997. Are we to assume then he took steroids in 1996 but then stopped in '97 when there was absolutely no change in baseball's policy on testing? While the 50 HRs is an eye opener, to use it as proof-positive of steroid use makes no sense.

Maybe he realized he was killing himself and his girl was pissed that he couldn't get his dick up and he figured it wasn't worth it anymore?

It seems pretty clear based on statistical analysis that Rafael Belliard was juicing. I mean, his HR/AB jumped from 1 per 2,210 over his first 15 seasons in the league all the way up to 1 per 91 his last 2 seasons. Fuckin' juicer. :mad:





:D

A couple things here - I have no idea if Brady Anderson was on the juice. I'll assume he was, and I'll assume the majority of ballplayers were in the time period. FWIW, Brady Anderson was always a guy who spent a lot of time in the gym and still does. Now, that could either provide more "evidence" or not based on what you believe.

To get back to the point of my original comment - I always find the mention of his hitting 50+ homeruns as evidence of steroid use to be bas-ackwards. He went from 16 HRs to 50 and then back to 18 in 1997. Are we to assume then he took steroids in 1996 but then stopped in '97 when there was absolutely no change in baseball's policy on testing? While the 50 HRs is an eye opener, to use it as proof-positive of steroid use makes no sense.

If it helps, I think the same thing about Larkin. 20 homeruns in 1991 at the age of 27 was his high before. Makes total sense. Then in 1996, at the age of 32, after hitting 15 the year before, he ups it to 33. Probably would have hit 10 the next year had he not been hurt.

It's quite possible something was in the ball in 1996. The bottom line for me is that the players, managers, owners, front offices, Selig, and the rest knew they had to get butts back in the seats after the strike in 1994 and 1996 is when the balls started leaving the yards in ridiculous amounts so maybe everyone and their brother was in on it.

Forgot about the juiced ball being an explanation.

Another guy who we might suspect did it was Luis Gonzales. I remember one day on the sports radio show here they were kind of just going over a list of guys they thought might or might not have done steroids. They get to Luis Gonzales think yes, but call the afternoon host, Jim Trabor, who did color commentary the year before for the D-Backs. He answers about the other guys, then hmmms and haws over Gonzales saying something like "I don't know whether he did or not, but he's such a family man, trying to do the best thing for his family and if he could get a big contract that would set them for life." Not an exact quote, but it was along those lines.

Clemens

Dola- What about pitchers? Kevin Brown for some reason comes to my mind.

Maybe because Kevin Brown is ripped?

Maybe because Kevin Brown is ripped?

And I guess because he goes from being decent to being a sub 2.00 ERA guy in 1996 when he joins the Marlins featuring Gary Sheffield in the year baseball blew up.

Burrell, Abreu, Lieberthal, Randy Wolf, David Bell, Jose Fucking Mesa, Lidle(rip)

Bell? Stupid MoFo must have been doing the wrong stuff...

How far back are we going?


Dykstra, Hollins, Daulton...

Oh yeah.....

Lance Parrish

You could pretty much look at the entire Rangers roster during the Jose Canseco era and be pretty much right on the money. Other rangers of note... Raffy, Ivan Rodriguez, Juan Gonzales, Gabe Kapler, Big Cat, Ken Caminiti, Lance Nix, Gary Mathews Jr., John Wetteland, Jeff Zimmerman, Roberto Kelly, Hank Blalock, Kevin Elster, Dean Palmer, Lee Stevens

All speculation on my part of course.

Reds: I know this is probably before the report's time, but Rob Dibble juiced like a motherfucker.

Otis Nixon?

I predict that only a minority of the players named in the Mitchell report will be power hitters. I think it will skew towards power pitchers and position players who rely on speed over power.

I predict that only a minority of the players named in the Mitchell report will be power hitters. I think it will skew towards power pitchers and position players who rely on speed over power.

Otis Nixon?

Like I said. :D

Mario Mendoza. Everyone knows the TRUE Mendoza line is .100, not .200.

Dave Kingman ;)

The Mitchell report apparently going to be released at 2pm tomorrow according to ESPN.com. I've read that its going to be very critical of Selig and the front offices of teams and since Selig will not be at Mitchell's press conference to announce the findings it seems like there's some truth to that.

Phil Andrews

Clemens

Sounds like his name is there.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129

A former New York Yankee strength trainer says information he supplied to the George Mitchell investigation regarding supplying Roger Clemens with steroids is included in the Mitchell report scheduled to be released later today, a source close to the trainer told ESPN The Magazine's Shaun Assael.

Brian McNamee, who worked for the Yankees and as a personal trainer for Clemens and Yankee teammates Andy Pettitte, also told investigators that on at least one occasion, Clemens was in possession of steroids from another supplier, the source said.

The source said McNamee told investigators her supplied Clemens with steroids while Clemens was witih the Yankees, and prior to Clemens joining the team.

Also, The Bergen (N.J.) Record, citing a baseball industry official, says "several" prominent Yankees will be named. The paper said the source spoke to a third party who had seen the final report.

"It's going to be a rough day in the Bronx," the paper quoted the source as saying.

doh!

I am going to go out on a limb and say none of the current Marlins will be on the list.


LOL

That is probably because the entire current Marlins roster was still in diapers when the steroid issue first came into the public eye. Perhaps that is why they traded Cabrera, mmmmmm? ;)

Sheffield, Pudge, and for some reason I think Kenny Rogers might have.

The Mitchell report apparently going to be released at 2pm tomorrow according to ESPN.com. I've read that its going to be very critical of Selig and the front offices of teams and since Selig will not be at Mitchell's press conference to announce the findings it seems like there's some truth to that.

Yeah, I am sure that Selig will agree with everything in the report except for the part where they say he and the owners are partly to blame...

Yeah, I am sure that Selig will agree with everything in the report except for the part where they say he and the owners are partly to blame...


That is true. Selig is a douchebag. :mad:

Let's see.....

Bonds (obviously)
McGuire (obviously)
Juan Gonzalez
Kenny Rogers
Eric Gagne
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettite (good friends with Clemens, do the math)
Jeff Bagwell
Ivan Rodriguez
Shawn Green

Many others I won't name. Either way, MLB is a joke. Bud Selig is a moron.

C'MON BASEBALL, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!!!

Clemens apparently IS mentioned in the report, from multiple sources, no less.

Clemens AND Pettitte!

Haven't seen anything on pettite yet.. but one of the people implicating Clemens was also Pettite's personal trainer..

Clemens AND Pettitte!

I have felt that Clemens was using the juice since his last season or two with the Red Sox. No way does this guy still over power people the way he was without taking SOMETHING. Does not surprise me much. Too bad about Pettite though. Of course, being a Yankee fan I detested Petitte after he left for Houston anyway. :mad:

The Mitchell Report is about as fraudulent as Bud Selig.

How so? Full disclosure: I interned for Mitchell when he was Senate Majority Leader, so I may have a biased opinion. However, in my opinion, for George Mitchell, see Patrick Fitzgerald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Fitzgerald), although it's more likely the other way around.

I have tremendous respect for Mitchell. I have seen first hand exactly how hard of a worker he is, and he is also very diligent and thoughtful. If Selig wanted a whitewash, he definitely picked the wrong guy.

The Mitchell report apparently going to be released at 2pm tomorrow according to ESPN.com. I've read that its going to be very critical of Selig and the front offices of teams and since Selig will not be at Mitchell's press conference to announce the findings it seems like there's some truth to that.

I would expect nothing less. Look back on his time in the Senate, and you'll see a guy who was universally respected by his colleagues. Plus, let's not forget that he's the one who finally brokered a real peace agreement in Northern Ireland. I know a lot of people are going to try and discredit the report, but they'll be trying to discredit the wrong person.

How so? Full disclosure: I interned for Mitchell when he was Senate Majority Leader, so I may have a biased opinion. However, in my opinion, for George Mitchell, see Patrick Fitzgerald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Fitzgerald), although it's more likely the other way around.

I have tremendous respect for Mitchell. I have seen first hand exactly how hard of a worker he is, and he is also very diligent and thoughtful. If Selig wanted a whitewash, he definitely picked the wrong guy.



I would expect nothing less. Look back on his time in the Senate, and you'll see a guy who was universally respected by his colleagues. Plus, let's not forget that he's the one who finally brokered a real peace agreement in Northern Ireland. I know a lot of people are going to try and discredit the report, but they'll be trying to discredit the wrong person.


Good info.:cool:

How so? Full disclosure: I interned for Mitchell when he was Senate Majority Leader, so I may have a biased opinion. However, in my opinion, for George Mitchell, see Patrick Fitzgerald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Fitzgerald), although it's more likely the other way around.

I have tremendous respect for Mitchell. I have seen first hand exactly how hard of a worker he is, and he is also very diligent and thoughtful. If Selig wanted a whitewash, he definitely picked the wrong guy.



I would expect nothing less. Look back on his time in the Senate, and you'll see a guy who was universally respected by his colleagues. Plus, let's not forget that he's the one who finally brokered a real peace agreement in Northern Ireland. I know a lot of people are going to try and discredit the report, but they'll be trying to discredit the wrong person.

Not saying anything about him personally or about what he's done (I plead ignorance), but isn't it true that his "investigation" really was more about getting reports from people on what they had seen/heard? There were some stories about trainers/clubhouse guys who felt that they were being bullied to name names, so I'm questioning where there is any EVIDENCE of wrongdoing. Of course, I could be proven wrong when the report comes out. I just don't really understand how an investigative team with absolutely no subpoena power and no real legal ground to stand on can come up with solid evidence.

Not saying solid evidence is needed for people to believe what they want to believe...

I would expect nothing less. Look back on his time in the Senate, and you'll see a guy who was universally respected by his colleagues. Plus, let's not forget that he's the one who finally brokered a real peace agreement in Northern Ireland. I know a lot of people are going to try and discredit the report, but they'll be trying to discredit the wrong person.

The assumption from a lot of those that have been bashing the investigation since they announced it is that Mitchell is a lap dog for Selig and the sole pupose of this is to throw out a bit of info on steroid use in baseball in a one-sided manner to appease fans and congress.

I think anyone that actually has knows anything about Mitchell knows that couldn't be further from the truth. I had no doubt he would put out the best and fairest report he possibly could. Selig would have been an idiot to get someone that would do anything less since this report is going to be heavily scrutinized by fans, and most importantly congress.

What I've found ammusing is Mitchell refused to give the MLBPA an advanced copy of the report since they refused to cooperate in the investigation. The guy earned bonus points with me there.

I've seen an apparent list on a couple websites, (won't post it all), but yes, the Yanks and Sox do get several names of past and former players on the list. (Including Jason Varitek, which I really feel disappointed about).

I've seen an apparent list on a couple websites, (won't post it all), but yes, the Yanks and Sox do get several names of past and former players on the list. (Including Jason Varitek, which I really feel disappointed about).

Another assumption in the report was that since he works for the Red Sox he'd hold back names from that organization....

Here's the list that I've seen: Take with a grain of salt, as I said, it's all from "sources" from different boards:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Pior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts,Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

I've seen an apparent list on a couple websites, (won't post it all), but yes, the Yanks and Sox do get several names of past and former players on the list. (Including Jason Varitek, which I really feel disappointed about).

Varitek? ESPN has said that there are no names from the Red Sox and Mets. Hmmmmm..........:confused: :confused:

Rich Garces

El Guapo deserves some sort of special achievement award for getting fat on steroids.

I have tremendous respect for Mitchell. I have seen first hand exactly how hard of a worker he is, and he is also very diligent and thoughtful. If Selig wanted a whitewash, he definitely picked the wrong guy.



I would expect nothing less. Look back on his time in the Senate, and you'll see a guy who was universally respected by his colleagues. Plus, let's not forget that he's the one who finally brokered a real peace agreement in Northern Ireland. I know a lot of people are going to try and discredit the report, but they'll be trying to discredit the wrong person.

Agreed. Mitchell is an honest broker.

If they continue to distance themselves from the report, Selig and the owners will lose a lot of respect. Their reaction will be very telling.

El Guapo deserves some sort of special achievement award for getting fat on steroids.

See also Andruw Jones

As long as there's no Smoltz or Chipper, I'll be happy

Here's the list that I've seen: Take with a grain of salt, as I said, it's all from "sources" from different boards:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Pior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts,Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

Some of these names are mildly surprising to me, but I guess if I really think about it they make sense. Garciaparra probably with all his injuries. Johnny Damon is a HUGE disappointment to me if it is true. Probably the biggest disappointment on here though is Pujols. It seems to me that he is too young and talented to need performance enhancers. Maybe he took stuff to get through an injury. I dunno, but it goes to show that we can't trust any of these guys anymore. In addition, how do we really know what to believe anymore anyway? All I know is that Selig really screwed up this great game for many generations, past, present, and future. :mad: :(

Varitek? ESPN has said that there are no names from the Red Sox and Mets. Hmmmmm..........:confused: :confused:

There was no chance Schoenweis wasn't on the list since he's already been busted. Fernando Tatis will be named apparently and he's in AAA for us.

Varitek? ESPN has said that there are no names from the Red Sox and Mets. Hmmmmm..........:confused: :confused:

Perhaps it was from when Varitek was on the Mariners?

That said, it'd be very disappointing for me as well if Tek was on the list.

Agreed. Mitchell is an honest broker.

If they continue to distance themselves from the report, Selig and the owners will lose a lot of respect. Their reaction will be very telling.

Many of the owners have not reacted at all to any of this, so I seriously doubt they will say anything after the report comes out either. Selig is in a position where he is forced to react to it due to the nature of his job. Regardless of how he reacts to this, his legacy is etched in stone as an incompetent moron. :mad:

Here is hoping for more creativity when the players deny or give excuses for their PED use. The major ones (Did not know what I was taking, injuries, etc.) are played out.

God bless Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr...the true baseball heroes of the 1990's...

Don't forget, Mitchell probably only had a few sources that squeeled, many players will be thanking their lucky stars tommorow...

Deadspin posted the list with a story, and then later updated the list with the following.

(UPDATE: A source inside baseball says this list is "not entirely accurate." Emphasis ours.)

When I saw Tejada had been traded I figured it was cause he was going to show up on the report.

Don't see any current Royals, but I'm not sure that's all that surprising. We're obviously not cheating well enough because we're not winning enough. :)

The Braves look to be pretty clean. Time for MLB to do the right thing and retroactively award us the last 3-5 World Series titles.

When I saw Tejada had been traded I figured it was cause he was going to show up on the report.

I thought pretty much the same thing when I saw Mark Prior's name on that list, since the Cubs decided last night not to offer him a contract for next year....

Also, disappointed and actually pretty surprised to see Kerry Wood's name show up (although it makes sense w/ all the injuries I guess..)

The Braves look to be pretty clean. Time for MLB to do the right thing and retroactively award us the last 3-5 World Series titles.

I bet Rocker did enough roids to cover the rest of the roster.

I bet Rocker did enough roids to cover the rest of the roster.

At least now I know that if I want to hate blacks and gays, I just need to do lots of roids.

David Bell on the list.....called that.

Wally Joyner. :(

Albert Pujols!

Anyone guessing if A-Rod will be named? My guess is even if he DID do anything, he won't be named because baseball wants him to overtake Bonds' HR record and they don't want Rodriguez to be tainted as well.

Anyone guessing if A-Rod will be named? My guess is even if he DID do anything, he won't be named because baseball wants him to overtake Bonds' HR record and they don't want Rodriguez to be tainted as well.

If Mitchell found anything on him he'll be in the report. The homerun record won't be considered.

Glad to see Pujols was finally called out for the roid freak that he is.

If Mitchell found anything on him he'll be in the report. The homerun record won't be considered.

If they threw pujols on there, they'd throw arod on there if they had proof

pettitte unofficially official

Don't see any current Royals, but I'm not sure that's all that surprising. We're obviously not cheating well enough because we're not winning enough. :)

I was thinking the same thing about the Pirates. :)

Wally Joyner and Rich Garces are the two most surprising to me.

Count me among those who cannot wait to hear all the denials and lawsuit threats (that will somehow not come to light).

I bet Dykstra had roids flavored side chew.

So who isn't on the list that is surprising/refreshing?

Griffey, Frank Thomas, who else?

So who isn't on the list that is surprising/refreshing?

Griffey, Frank Thomas, who else?


Piazza.

Anyone guessing if A-Rod will be named? My guess is even if he DID do anything, he won't be named because baseball wants him to overtake Bonds' HR record and they don't want Rodriguez to be tainted as well.

There's no proof A-Rod has done steroids. None at all. A-Rod is just that good that he doesn't need them. He's not like that fraud and cheater Albert Pujols.

Not even a Sox fan, but very disappointed to see Varitek and Nomar on the list. Both of them seemed like good guys.

I can't say I'm surprised about Pujols. Dude is just freakishly, 0% body fat ripped.

Props to Gregg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz as well...

Piazza.

This absolutely amazes me. If you'd have asked me for a list of 5 guys (other than the guys who had already been outed) that would have been in there, Piazza would have been one of them. If he really didn't juice that is amazing.

I'm kind of impressed that some of the older pitchers that are still kicking around were clean. Guys like David Wells and Jaime Moyer.

I'm amazed that you guys are talking the fake list so truthfully. I personally will wait for 1 hour to see the real list first before I start lighting torches.

Not even a Sox fan, but very disappointed to see Varitek and Nomar on the list. Both of them seemed like good guys.

I am glad about Varitek. He annoys the hell out of me by wearing that stupid "C" on his jersey.

I'm amazed that you guys are talking the fake list so truthfully. I personally will wait for 1 hour to see the real list first before I start lighting torches.

This is a text sim message board. We can light whatever torches we feel. We don't even need a list for that.

I'm amazed that you guys are talking the fake list so truthfully. I personally will wait for 1 hour to see the real list first before I start lighting torches.

I'm amazed that people are assuming that anyone not on the list is "clean", even though the list is supposed to be a sampling and not complete.

For those of you playing at home, MLB has denied this list is accurate. There are a lot of mis-spellings on it and Glaus is on twice.

Hey guys, long time no see. :) Felt like posting this for some reason...

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/2001/0305_large.jpg


Oh, and those of you surprised to see Wally Joyner's name on the list must have missed it when he admitted in 2005 to ESPN Mag that he got roids from Caminiti when both were on the Padres in 1998, I believe it was.

And I'm glad to see Johnny Damon on the list. I hate that fucker. What a worthless piece of shit he is, to marry his high school sweetheart, have triplets, become a very good baseball player, and then decide that he should live the rock star lifestyle, cheat on his wife, ignore his kids, divorce her, then write a book about it all. I hope his nuts shrivel up, fall off, and he keels over at 42. Other than that, I wish him a happy 2008 season.

For those of you playing at home, MLB has denied this list is accurate. There are a lot of mis-spellings on it and Glaus is on twice.

What hasn't MLB denies at this point in regards to 'roids?

For those of you playing at home, MLB has denied this list is accurate. There are a lot of mis-spellings on it and Glaus is on twice.

but other than those problems, the list is accurate:)

Cameron? That's my biggest disappointment on the unofficial list.

As for Varitek with the Mariners, I don't even remember him having much more than a cup of coffee at the major league level before he was traded.

Cameron? That's my biggest disappointment on the unofficial list.

Some of you guys must be living in a cave. Mike Cameron was just suspended for the first 25 games of next year.

Hey guys, long time no see. :) Felt like posting this for some reason...

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/2001/0305_large.jpg


Oh, and those of you surprised to see Wally Joyner's name on the list must have missed it when he admitted in 2005 to ESPN Mag that he got roids from Caminiti when both were on the Padres in 1998, I believe it was.

And I'm glad to see Johnny Damon on the list. I hate that fucker. What a worthless piece of shit he is, to marry his high school sweetheart, have triplets, become a very good baseball player, and then decide that he should live the rock star lifestyle, cheat on his wife, ignore his kids, divorce her, then write a book about it all. I hope his nuts shrivel up, fall off, and he keels over at 42. Other than that, I wish him a happy 2008 season.

Still don't know why the Yankees signed that bum.

Interoffice Memo to the Steinbrenner's:
cc: Brian Cashman:

Please do not sign any more overpriced, past their prime free agents. Carl Pavano, Tanyon Sturtze, Jason Giambi, Randy Johnson (via trade), Johnny Damon, and numerous others HAVE NOT WORKED OUT!!

Promote from within. Just like Microsoft. LOL.
:rolleyes:

If Mitchell found anything on him he'll be in the report. The homerun record won't be considered.

Probably not true. Selig wants to distance himself as much as possible from the whole Barry Bonds debacle. His best way to do that is to promote the only current player whom has a chance to surpass Bonds: Alex Rodriguez. I doubt A-Rod has taken anything, but at the same time I would not be surprised if he has either.

Hey guys, long time no see. :) Felt like posting this for some reason...

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/2001/0305_large.jpg




I look like that and I don't do roids.

The following is a list of players already having implications of some sort. So any of these guys are probably on the real list already. Since the list is only 60-80 players I suspect we won't have many new names coming out.

List pulled from http://www.baseballssteroidera.com/

Total
64
24 Pitchers
Admitted Users
Ken Caminiti
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Armando Rios
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Jose Canseco
Tom House
Wally Joyner
Jim Leyritz
Paxton Crawford
Jason Grimsley
David Segui
John Rocker
Paul Byrd
Total: 17

Implicated Players
Mark McGwire
Manny Alexander
Chuck Finley
Marvin Bernard
Randy Velarde
Wilson Alvarez
Bret Boone
Ozzie Canseco
Juan Gonzalez
Dave Martinez
Ivan Rodriguez
Tony Saunders
Miguel Tejada
Lenny Dykstra
Dave Hollins
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Brian Roberts
Jay Gibbons
Gary Matthews Jr.
Jerry Hairston Jr.
David Bell
Darren Holmes
Rick Ankiel
Troy Glaus
Scott Schoeneweis
Matt Williams
Jose Guillen
Ismael Valdez
Total: 29

MLB Positive Tests
Alex Sanchez
Jorge Piedra
Agustin Montero
Jamal Strong
Juan Rincon
Rafael Betancourt
Rafael Palmeiro
Ryan Franklin
Mike Morse
Carlos Almanzar
Felix Heredia
Matt Lawton
Yusaku Iriki
Guillermo Mota
Juan Salas
Dan Serafini
Total: 16

Non-MLB Positive Tests
Terrmel Sledge*
Derek Turnbow*
Total: 2

Griffey not being on the list is NOT surprising! He's never been ripped, just slowly getting fatter as the years go by.

Also, no Larkin! My baseball life can continue.

That list is sad, because, with all those names I feel stupid for not thinking they might be on roids, all those guys are ripped.

Ripken not being on the list is somewhat surprising to me. I thought for sure that he'd show as a user to continue the streak but glad he's not on any list public so far.

Listening to Steve Phillips try to defend himself JUST in case his name might be mentioned is hilarious.

Least Surprising Inclusion: (tie) Ozzie Canseco and Jeremy Giambi
Most Surprising Exclusion: No Bonds? hmmmm list must be bad
How many roids did Juan Gonzalez take to get on there 2x?

LoDuca, thats out of LF.

Rondell White?

Stop smiling Dan Duquette, stop smiling!

Mo Vaughn, Paul Lo Duca (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6032), Eric Gagne (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6342), Glenallen Hill, Gregg Zaun (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5427), Rondell White, Hal Morris, Todd Hundley, Larry Bigbie, Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Matt Herges (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6296), Kevin Brown and Mike Lansing, David Justice, Brian Roberts, Miguel Tejada, Clemens, Pettitte, Grimsley, Segui, Mike Stanton, CHuck Knoblach

These are confirmed

CHuck Knoblach

These are confirmed


LOL :D

Download the Mitchell Report (http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/12/13/mitchell.report.pdf)

I'm far more interested in the fallout and hearing what players will say after being implicated.

Still don't know why the Yankees signed that bum.

Interoffice Memo to the Steinbrenner's:
cc: Brian Cashman:

Please do not sign any more overpriced, past their prime free agents. Carl Pavano, Tanyon Sturtze, Jason Giambi, Randy Johnson (via trade), Johnny Damon, and numerous others HAVE NOT WORKED OUT!!

Promote from within. Just like Microsoft. LOL.
:rolleyes:

Did the bolded guy even have a prime?? :)

Yeah, isn't this just a list of confirmed guys? So if someone isn't on it, they could still be juice bags...

The report itself does not have a list. From what I have seen.

The report itself does not have a list. From what I have seen.

Nope. No list. It just implicates people based on the interviewing and information he obtained.

Greg Zaun!!!!! Nooooo!!!!!

I like the checks and packaging slips at the end of the report. Its classic.

Oh yeah, spoiler alert

Oh and I was unable to find the names Bagwell or Pujols named in the report. :)

From Pages 113-114:

Conte told the agents that he had sold “the cream” and “the clear,” and advised on
their use, to dozens of elite athletes, including several players in Major League Baseball whom
he named in the interview: Barry Bonds; Jason Giambi; Jeremy Giambi; Armando Rios; and
Gary Sheffield.300 In that regard, Conte explained:
At the beginning of this major league baseball season, Greg
Anderson, a personal trainer at Bay Area Fitness who works closely with
several major league baseball players, brought in several of the players to
Balco in order to obtain the undetectable cream and clear. This was done
because of Major League Baseball’s new drug testing policy. Barry
Bonds was one of the players that Anderson brought to Conte to obtain
“the clear” and “the cream”. Bonds takes “the clear” and “the cream” on a
regular basis. The protocol for using the substances is two times per week
for “the clear” and two times per week for “the cream”. The athletes do
this for three weeks then take one week off. [BALCO vice president] Jim
Valente deals more with Anderson than Conte does. Anderson last got
some of “the clear” and “the cream” from Conte for his athletes about
three (3) or (4) weeks ago.

Conte told the agents that “Barry Bonds does not pay Conte for ‘the clear’ and ‘the cream’ that
he receives. Bonds’ payment is in the form of promotion for Conte’s ZMA product."

Denny Naegle.... Jump on that train!!!!

Nope. No list. It just implicates people based on the interviewing and information he obtained.

ITs basically hearsay, but why let the facts get in the way of a good witchhunt?

And who the hell is jeff williams?

Greg Zaun!!!!! Nooooo!!!!!

I like the checks and packaging slips at the end of the report. Its classic.

Oh yeah, spoiler alert

Zaun :(

Also, Jason Grimsley has flowers on his checks.

After listening to Mitchell's press conference, I think he's done a good job. Now let's wait for the NFL to do theirs..... [cues laughtrack]

ITs basically hearsay, but why let the facts get in the way of a good witchhunt?

Now now, let's not go speaking that. Someone will come out and say your "head is in the sand..." What about the children?!


;)

ITs basically hearsay, but why let the facts get in the way of a good witchhunt?

Exactly.

(and that's coming from someone who wants all the real cheaters exposed)

Mike Lansing?!

Mitchell Friedman?!?!

ITs basically hearsay, but why let the facts get in the way of a good witchhunt?

The scanned checks and shipping statements are hearsay?

A quick look through the report and I see that Miguel Tejada is the only smart one. His checks went to Adam Piatt, who sent checks to Radomski.

Some of you guys must be living in a cave. Mike Cameron was just suspended for the first 25 games of next year.

I've ignored most of this shit. Bad light in the cave for reading.

Denny Naegle.... Jump on that train!!!!

Hell I'm still shocked that Hal Morris on there.

Man, the Radomski stuff, with the cancelled checks in the report are pretty damning.

Here's an interesting note that I'm sure we'll hear more about, re: Lo Duca:

According to the notes of an internal discussion among Los Angeles Dodgers officials in October 2003 that were referred to above, it was reportedly said of Lo Duca during
the meetings:

Steroids aren’t being used anymore on him. Big part of this.
Might have some value to trade . . . Florida might have interest.
. . . Got off the steroids . . . Took away a lot of hard line drives.
. . . Can get comparable value back would consider trading. . . . If
you do trade him, will get back on the stuff and try to show you he can have a good year. That’s his makeup. Comes to play. Last
year of contract, playing for 05.

F.P. Santangelo. Heh.

Did the bolded guy even have a prime?? :)


LOL

The only "prime" Sturtze had was Prime Rib everytime he got paid from the Yankees and Royals. :mad:

After listening to Mitchell's press conference, I think he's done a good job. Now let's wait for the NFL to do theirs..... [cues laughtrack]

NFL?

About that asterisk........

NFL?

Yes. The National Football League.

A steroids investigation.

Or will we just call that "The Pro Bowl."

No Varitek (or Nomar for that matter) in the report. :)

No way Mia Hamm marries Nomar if he was on 'roids. Besides, he's hurt way too much.

Brian Roberts, Jack Cust, Tim Laker, Randy Velarde, Josias Manzanillo, Todd Hundley, Mark Carreon, Matt Franco, ROn Villone

Having finally surfed through the report to the section where the names start popping up, I think the thing that jumped out at me was the number of backup catchers, lefty relievers, and utility infielders that were on the list.

Kent Mercker? Mike Stanton? Tim Laker? WTF?
(Yeah, I know, it's marginal guys trying to hang on for the last roster spot, but those aren't the sort of players that normally come to mind when steroids are discussed)

edit to add: The other thing that popped out at me was that it sure seemed like a shitload of former Expos were on the list.

Damn you Kent Merker. You have forever tainted my World Series '95 seasons on my Sega Genesis

(Yeah, I know, it's marginal guys trying to hang on for the last roster spot, but those aren't the sort of players that normally come to mind when steroids are discussed)


But it should. They're the ones with the least to lose.

Here's an interesting note that I'm sure we'll hear more about, re: Lo Duca:

Interesting since the wording implies that the Dodgers front office, at best, knew; and at worst, encouraged it as part of some sort of regimen.

Yes. The National Football League.

A steroids investigation.

Or will we just call that "The Pro Bowl."

If baseball had 1/4 of the brains of the NFL, they wouldn't be in this position.

The NFL started suspending players for steroids and other drugs in 1987. You read that right. 1987. As in 20 years ago. Two freakin decades.

Yes, we all know NFL players find ways around the tests. But there is widely known penalty for violating the policy and getting caught and they've suspended stars, scrubs and everything in between during that time.

The NFL isn't perfect. In fact, it may be a joke. But they understood the PR of the situation and they have random tests. Bash football if you want, but baseball should have been smarter.

I heart the Red SOx

In considering whether to trade for Donnelly in 2007, Red Sox baseball
operations personnel internally discussed concerns that Donnelly was using performance
enhancing substances. In an email to vice president of player personnel Ben Charington dated
December 13, 2006, Zack Scott of the Red Sox baseball operations staff wrote of Donnelly: “He
was a juice guy but his velocity hasn’t changed a lot over the years . . . If he was a juice guy, he
could be a breakdown candidate.”
427
Kyle Evans of the baseball operations staff agreed with
these concerns, responding in an email that “I haven’t heard many good things about him, w[ith]
significant steroid rumors.”
428

Interesting since the wording implies that the Dodgers front office, at best, knew; and at worst, encouraged it as part of some sort of regimen.

Was there really any team in baseball that didn't have a front office that both knew with reasonable certainty that specific players were using and encouraged it at least tacitly?

Not that it's the most mind-blowing thing in the world, but Matt Williams being suspected is a bummer.

Scanning through, haven't seen any new information on Bonds.

Was there really any team in baseball that didn't have a front office that both knew with reasonable certainty that specific players were using and encouraged it at least tacitly?

Not at all...and looking through the report, there seem to be many discussions between teams on it...I'm just surprised they wrote this stuff down on paper.

All non-Balco names from the report, according to Deadspin

Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Gregg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan
Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
David Bell
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard

Scanning through, haven't seen any new information on Bonds.

Sure there is. Those legendary battles between him and Roger Clemmens were steroid user against steriod user.

EDIT: My bad, alleged user against alleged user.

Haven't looked through it with a comb, but I think he'll get some shit for having probably his two biggest "new" names in Clemens and Pettite not have any checks or packing slips.

Was there really any team in baseball that didn't have a front office that both knew with reasonable certainty that specific players were using and encouraged it at least tacitly?

I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, it is in the organization's interest to encourage steroid use, especially for marginal players. If it works out, it's great for the organization. If it doesn't, any physical "tools" development will pump up that player's trade value. If the player gets caught, the player gets punished, not the organization.

As for the Dodgers, leaving a paper trail is just dumb. As an aside, I always mocked my English teachers' insistence on using active voice, but I guess they are having the last laugh--it would have been less incriminating if the note taker didn't write the key sentence in passive voice...

After listening to Mitchell's press conference, I think he's done a good job. Now let's wait for the NFL to do theirs..... [cues laughtrack]


LOL
:)

All non-Balco names from the report, according to Deadspin

Glenallen Hill




I wonder now why he never won any batting titles??? Oh yeah, because he SUCKED. :rolleyes:

The player's union tipped off at least one player on a test....

Rondell White

Hadn't suspected him after seeing him the last two years on the Twins, where there seem to have been no benefits for roids over the last two seasons.

Very disappointed in Paul Lo Duca if all of what I'm reading about him is true. Sounds like the Dodgers knew he was probably juicing, which disappoints me as well, but we don't get the whole story from the 7 lines of text.

All non-Balco names from the report, according to Deadspin

Lenny Dykstra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Gregg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Adam Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Jim Parque
Brendan Donnelly
Chad Allen
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan
Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
David Bell
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard

Fortunately these websites have never heard of putting things in alphabetical order. It might actually make it easy to look through... :)

Somehow Steve Philips has managed to make himself seem like even more of a tool today.

Is this a big surprise?

"In his book, Sheffield attributed the increase in home runs in Major League Baseball after the 1994 strike to widespread steroid use, and he claimed that at the time he asked the Commissioner to investigate the issue, only to be ignored. Selig denied that he ever received such a request from Sheffield."

Crooks and liars. All of them. Bud Selig is the ringleader.

Steven A. Smith on his show is saying that he never heard Roger Clemens mentioned in regards to steroids before today. Talk about living in a cave. This guy has his own tv/radio show?? Really? I need to send off my pilot episode to ESPN ASAP.

Is this a big surprise?

"In his book, Sheffield attributed the increase in home runs in Major League Baseball after the 1994 strike to widespread steroid use, and he claimed that at the time he asked the Commissioner to investigate the issue, only to be ignored. Selig denied that he ever received such a request from Sheffield."

Crooks and liars. All of them. Bud Selig is the ringleader.



I'm in no way defending Selig, but I'm calling BS here. Sheffield was a user himself and is known to speak out of his ass.

He tried calling Bonds out on the BALCO thing when he was later tied directly to it himself.

Fortunately these websites have never heard of putting things in alphabetical order. It might actually make it easy to look through... :)

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 91pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="121"><col style="width: 91pt;" width="121"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt; width: 91pt;" height="17" width="121">Chad Allen</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Rick Ankiel</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">David Bell</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mike Bell</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Gary Bennett, Jr.</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Larry Bigbie</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Kevin Brown</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Paul Byrd</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jose Canseco</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mark Carreon</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jason Christiansen</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Howie Clark</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Roger Clemens</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jack Cust</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Brendan Donnelly</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Chris Donnels</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Lenny Dykstra</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Matt Franco</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Ryan Franklin</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Eric Gagne</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jay Gibbons</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Troy Glaus</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jason Grimsley</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jose Guillen</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jerry Hairston</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jerry Hairston, Jr.</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Matt Herges</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Phil Hiatt</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Glenallen Hill</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Darren Holmes</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Todd Hundley</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">David Justice</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Chuck Knoblauch</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Tim Laker</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mike Lansing</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Paul Lo Duca</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Nook Logan</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Josias Manzanillo</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Gary Matthews, Jr.</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Cody McKay</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Kent Mercker</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Bart Miadich</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Hal Morris</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Denny Neagle</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jim Parque</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Andy Pettitte</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Adam Piatt</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Todd Pratt</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Stephen Randolph</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Adam Riggs</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Brian Roberts</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">John Rocker</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">F.P. Santangelo</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Scott Schoeneweis</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">David Segui</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mike Stanton</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Miguel Tejada</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Ismael Valdez</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Mo Vaughn</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Ron Villone</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Fernando Vina</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Rondell White</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Jeff Williams</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Matt Williams</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Todd Williams</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Steve Woodard</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Kevin Young</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Gregg Zaun</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
So, if I read this correctly, Bond isn't implicated by this report?!

/tk

That was a list of non-BALCO names, I believe.

So, if I read this correctly, Bond isn't implicated by this report?!

/tk

No. These are non-Balco names. Bonds is all over the report.

That was a list of non-BALCO names, I believe.

Oh der.
I'm so stupid sometimes.
*smacks head*

Well, I gave you the list alphabetically by last name, anyway. ;) I can pretend I was useful.

/tk

Jerry Hairson needs to ask for his money back if he did roids.

I'm in no way defending Selig, but I'm calling BS here. Sheffield was a user himself and is known to speak out of his ass.

He tried calling Bonds out on the BALCO thing when he was later tied directly to it himself.

Agreed. They are all guilty. Selig is a bum, and Sheffield is a loser. Nice job MLB. After this, the NFL just pulled even FURTHER ahead of you in the sports race.:D

Jerry Hairson needs to ask for his money back if he did roids.


So does Jason Grimsley.

Agreed. They are all guilty. Selig is a bum, and Sheffield is a loser. Nice job MLB. After this, the NFL just pulled even FURTHER ahead of you in the PR race.:D

Fixed ;)


Don't think the NFL doesn't have just as big of a problem.

MEMO TO STEPHEN A SMITH:

"In October 2006, after the Los Angeles Times reported that the names of Clemens and McNamee were among those that had been redacted from an affidavit in support of a search warrant for the residence of Jason Grimsley as allegedly involved with the illegal use of performance enhancing substances..."

LOL. How dark IS that cave, Stephen A?

Fixed ;)


Don't think the NFL doesn't have just as big of a problem.

Obviously they do when OL/DL are in excess of 350 lbs. these days. Yes, humans are bigger than we were 100 years ago, but c'mon. In any case, the NFL is much better at sweeping stuff under the rug (i.e. Shawn Merriman received very little press).

i.e. Shawn Merriman received very little press
Really? How do you quantify how much press someone receives? I have always wondered when reading statements like that.

Did I see a guy named Nook in there?

Nook?

The most depressing part of this (after admittedly only skimming it) is that the report for the most part is based around only three suppliers (BALCO, the Mets guy and McMann or whatever - I can't be bothered to look it up).

Think of how many other suppliers are out there that would have been getting steroids to other players that didn't make this report.

Also, what is there, 8 Yankees from the 2000 World Series team? Better throw an asterisk on that one.

McNamee is tied to Rodomski (Mets guy) -- the 3rd supplier would be Signature Pharmacy.

The Dodgers really should look at their record-keeping techniques in the future:

"In the notes of the October 2003 meetings among Dodgers officials, it was reportedly said of Brown: Kevin Brown – getting to the age of nagging injuries . . . Question what kind of medication he takes . . . Effectiveness goes down covering 1st base or running bases. Common in soccer players and are more susceptible if you take meds to increase your muscles –
doesn’t increase the attachments. Is he open to adjusting how he takes care of himself? He knows he now needs to do stuff before coming to spring training to be ready. Steroids speculated by GM."

Between this and the comments the Dodgers wrote down on Paul Lo Duca, they have some serious explaining to do, eh? Or not, I suppose, since it IS all about the bottom line in the end anyway.

Really? How do you quantify how much press someone receives? I have always wondered when reading statements like that.

Compared to the baseball steroid/HgH debacle, Merriman was a blink of an eye in the media coverage. That is all that I am saying.

Also, what is there, 8 Yankees from the 2000 World Series team? Better throw an asterisk on that one.

That is a good argument, and I am a Yankees fan. But 2 things should be considered here; 1) how many of the players linked to it on that Yankees team were integral parts of the championship team? Clemens, Pettite - yes. Grimsley? That is laughable. 2) How many players on other championship teams before and after the 2000 Yankees team also were on 'roids? Maybe we should just put an asterisk next to every name and every team in every year. That way all of our bases are covered....:eek:

Fixed ;)


Don't think the NFL doesn't have just as big of a problem.

They DON'T have a problem.

The issue here isn't that guys are using drugs. Yes, some guys careers are ruined. Some guys will never make it to the hall because of this. But that isn't it.

This is a PR issue. The NFL doesn't have a problem with steroids because they can hold up their contract and go through their history and show that they did everything they could do to clean things up.

The NFL sits back and laughs their asses off at these other sports. It'll happen in hockey and basketball too, because those sports have been lax. The way to attack this is to go on a PR campaign and come up with a testing policy BEFORE it becomes a widespread problem. Then if something comes up, you can say you tried.

Baseball swept it under the rug and pretended the problem didn't exist. Now they are paying the price. Baseball has nobody else but themselves to blame for this. Instead of people laughing at the NFL's policy, they should be looking at the NFL as the model league for staying ahead of these problems.

Just noticed Paul Byrd and Ismael Valdez. Huh.

They DON'T have a problem.

The issue here isn't that guys are using drugs. Yes, some guys careers are ruined. Some guys will never make it to the hall because of this. But that isn't it.

This is a PR issue. The NFL doesn't have a problem with steroids because they can hold up their contract and go through their history and show that they did everything they could do to clean things up.

The NFL sits back and laughs their asses off at these other sports. It'll happen in hockey and basketball too, because those sports have been lax. The way to attack this is to go on a PR campaign and come up with a testing policy BEFORE it becomes a widespread problem. Then if something comes up, you can say you tried.

Baseball swept it under the rug and pretended the problem didn't exist. Now they are paying the price. Baseball has nobody else but themselves to blame for this. Instead of people laughing at the NFL's policy, they should be looking at the NFL as the model league for staying ahead of these problems.

Couldn't agree with you more. MLB has swept this stuff under the rug for so long that they don't even know what is legal or healthy anymore. Bud Selig is a complete moron whom tried to escape these problems but was unable to. Now he is being forced to confront it and the results are really quite ugly. Selig should read up on what Paul Tagliabue did with the NFL and get a clue.

Compared to the baseball steroid/HgH debacle, Merriman was a blink of an eye in the media coverage. That is all that I am saying.

I disagree with this. Merriman was talked about all year in the press. When he made the pro bowl, the league changed the rule on allowing players to make it who had suspensions in that year. It even dragged out to the DPOY voting when Taylor talked about how he should win it because he was clean.

The NFL didn't take a PR hit though. Why? Because THEY SUSPENDED Merriman. If Merriman had set a sack record and the was linked with a clinic providing steroids to multiple NFL all pros and those players had never received a suspension or had never even been tested? Now they have the problem MLB has and now they get slammed in PR.

Steven A. Smith on his show is saying that he never heard Roger Clemens mentioned in regards to steroids before today. Talk about living in a cave. This guy has his own tv/radio show?? Really? I need to send off my pilot episode to ESPN ASAP.

Good thing I heard the show. What he said was he had never heard Roger Clemens's name in regards to 'roids in the same way that the Steroid Five (Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro and Giambi) were mentioned. As you pointed out, Clemens was named in L.A. Times report. However the immediate reaction from most of the media and many fans that there was no evidence that he used anything. Today is the first time I have heard widespread media attention (acceptance?) of Clemens's alleged steroid use.

Compared to the baseball steroid/HgH debacle, Merriman was a blink of an eye in the media coverage. That is all that I am saying.
You are talking about one player versus an entire professional sport. Of course there is a difference. That doesn't mean that Merriman did not receive "a lot" of coverage. His story came up in numerous different news cycles, too (the suspension, the aftermath, the playoffs, the DPoY, the Pro Bowl...)

Just wondering for those who've had a chance to look over the report. How much (if any) is Bud Selig implicating in covering up or obstructing plans to deal with the steroid issue? ESPN was seeming to say that very little of the blame was left at Selig's door.

I thought Steve Phillips comments on ESPN just now were interesting. Nothing new really -- basically he acknowledged that GM's "knew" (i.e. believed but had no evidence) certain players were on the juice -- but that without anyone else raising cane about it that he (nor any GM) were willing to put their own jobs on the line by going to the owner & demanding something be done.

I'm sorry, MLB used this investigation as a PR stunt, a complete joke...carry on MLB, with one less fan...

Frank Thomas(god bless him) and Giambi the only players who talked with Mitchell? ESPN defending/spinning the situation at every turn? I know it makes economic sense for them to sweep this under the rug, but please, fuck you MLB...

I think it's kind of interesting that, of the ESPN talking heads, Kruk & Phillips seem to be the most accepting of the findings of the report while Kurkjian & Gammons are much more dismissive of it.

Can't help but notice that the former have pretty much already made their living from baseball while the latter are dependent upon continued fan interest to continue making their livings.

That is a good argument, and I am a Yankees fan. But 2 things should be considered here; 1) how many of the players linked to it on that Yankees team were integral parts of the championship team? Clemens, Pettite - yes. Grimsley? That is laughable.

Taken from somewhere else...

2000 world series:

Game 1 Starter
Andy Pettitte (steroids)
Yankees win

Game 2 Starter
Roger Clemens (steroids)
Yankees win

Game 3 Starter
Orlando Hernandez
Mets win

Game 4 Starter
Denny Neagle (steroids)
Yankees win

Game 5 Starter
Andy Pettitte (steroids)
Yankees win

Yankees Steroid Users in 2000 World Series:
30.2 IP, 5 ER, 1.46 ERA

Non-Steroid Users:
16.1 IP, 9 ER, 4.95 ERA

Just saying.

I'm sorry, MLB used this investigation as a PR stunt, a complete joke...carry on MLB, with one less fan...

Frank Thomas(god bless him) and Giambi the only players who talked with Mitchell? ESPN defending/spinning the situation at every turn? I know it makes economic sense for them to sweep this under the rug, but please, fuck you MLB...
Did you actually read the report, there were a number of other players that spoke to Mitchell besides those two.

Edit... Unless you are talking about current players...

Clearly should award the 2000 WS to the Mets!!!

Taken from somewhere else...



Just saying.


I forgot Neagle even played for them in that series. If it is really THAT important to everyone, the Yankees should give back the 2000 world series title. Of course, they still have 25 more of them to admire.....:D

I think it's kind of interesting that, of the ESPN talking heads, Kruk & Phillips seem to be the most accepting of the findings of the report while Kurkjian & Gammons are much more dismissive of it.

Can't help but notice that the former have pretty much already made their living from baseball while the latter are dependent upon continued fan interest to continue making their livings.


ESPN has more talking heads than Mr. Rogers neighborhood. With that being said, if there is one person that probably took something that is not being talked about, it is Kruk. That guy has the biggest melon I have ever seen (except for maybe Stewie Griffin in The Family Guy, but that is a cartoon).:eek:

I think it's kind of interesting that, of the ESPN talking heads, Kruk & Phillips seem to be the most accepting of the findings of the report while Kurkjian & Gammons are much more dismissive of it.

Can't help but notice that the former have pretty much already made their living from baseball while the latter are dependent upon continued fan interest to continue making their livings.


Another conclusion could be that Phillips and Kruk are/were on the inside where Kukjian and Gammons despite their reputation and respect level were always outsiders.

Ive said this numerous times before, but I know FOR A FACT that major college football programs had a major problem in the late 90s (not saying they didnt before or dont now, but I KNOW they did then) and it was amazing how candidly it was discussed amongst fellow "brothers" (even from different programs) but never breathed when anyone else was present or to an outsider.

Maybe its naievity but I find it entirely possible that Kruk and Phillips KNOW what goes on and Gammons and TIMMAY only can speculate and feel betrayed by the athletes they felt were their friends, now realizing they most likely lied to them "in confidence"

Anyone watching/listening to Selig? What a moron. I wish he would go back to the Brewers.

They DON'T have a problem.

The issue here isn't that guys are using drugs. Yes, some guys careers are ruined. Some guys will never make it to the hall because of this. But that isn't it.

This is a PR issue. The NFL doesn't have a problem with steroids because they can hold up their contract and go through their history and show that they did everything they could do to clean things up.

The NFL sits back and laughs their asses off at these other sports. It'll happen in hockey and basketball too, because those sports have been lax. The way to attack this is to go on a PR campaign and come up with a testing policy BEFORE it becomes a widespread problem. Then if something comes up, you can say you tried.

Baseball swept it under the rug and pretended the problem didn't exist. Now they are paying the price. Baseball has nobody else but themselves to blame for this. Instead of people laughing at the NFL's policy, they should be looking at the NFL as the model league for staying ahead of these problems.

You're grouping a problem with steroid use in the NFL with the NFL's ability to PR the situation. The NFL doesn't have a problem with steroids in the court of public opinion. The NFL does have a problem with players using. Just the same as baseball, the difference is they've PR'd the situation immeasurably better than baseball has.

The NFL has the weakest union in all of sports and one that would be a joke outside of sports. Baseball has to fight tooth and nail to get anything done while the NFL can go to Gene Upshaw, ask him anything, and he'll bend over backwards to help the commissioner. Baseball proposed steroid testing in 1994 and the talks based around that collective bargaining agreement led to the season being canceled. To get baseball on the field again they just dropped steroid testing from the collective bargaining talks.

Instead of blaming all of baseball, people should be looking directly at the player's union and asking them why they continue to defend and protect criminals.

The NFL is far from a model league in how they delt with steroids. They've delt with them as public has knowledge increased. They had their eyes on dollars, not protecting players.

Anyone watching/listening to Selig? What a moron. I wish he would go back to the Brewers.

I was actually kind of surprised that Selig's comments were as strong as they were & even the tiniest bit optimistic about the tone overall.

Problem is that the commissioner's office is pretty neutered by the players union and I'd be shocked that they agreed to anything that was truly "in the best interest of baseball".

Anyone watching/listening to Selig? What a moron. I wish he would go back to the Brewers.


I know Selig is hated by most baseball fans, but does anyone actually have reasons for this?

I'm willing to bet over 90% of the problems people have with Selig and his perceived incompetence can be tied directly to having to deal with the player's union.

Albert Pujols!

Glad to see Pujols was finally called out for the roid freak that he is.

If they threw pujols on there, they'd throw arod on there if they had proof

Pujols isnt on the list SI just put on their front page, so im not sure why he was on the list someone else posted earlier.

Pujols isnt on the list SI just put on their front page, so im not sure why he was on the list someone else posted earlier.

Yeah... he was on that first - mostly false - list. He's not one of the guys talked about in the report.

...which, as I'm reading it, I remember why I never wanted to be a lawyer. :)

I know Selig is hated by most baseball fans, but does anyone actually have reasons for this?

I'm willing to bet over 90% of the problems people have with Selig and his perceived incompetence can be tied directly to having to deal with the player's union.


My personal opinion is that Selig is a supreme pushover and a man of little action. He had to have known about the steroids problem at least since he became commissioner, probably even earlier from his days with Milwaukee. Now if this is the case, why did he not do something about it sooner, rather than later? As someone earlier posted, why not put a drug testing policy in place BEFORE all of this becomes public? Yes, the players union in baseball has immense power, but it takes 2 sides to offer a product such as this. Instead of bending over for the union, Selig should have stood firm and required a mandatory drug testing regiment. Perhaps an entire season would have been missed due to a player strike (a.k.a. the NHL), but the players would have eventually come around because they want to play and get their huge salaries. True, most of them could play in Japan or something, but who really believes that players like Pujols, Jeter, Rodriguez, and others would go to Japan for more than one season? Selig is an embarrassment to anybody in a leadership role. The steroid problem came full circle on his watch, and he was asleep the whole time.

Couldn't agree with you more. MLB has swept this stuff under the rug for so long that they don't even know what is legal or healthy anymore. Bud Selig is a complete moron whom tried to escape these problems but was unable to. Now he is being forced to confront it and the results are really quite ugly. Selig should read up on what Paul Tagliabue did with the NFL and get a clue.


Selig proposed steroid testing in 1994. The new collective bargaining agreement signed after the strike left it out. Owners just wanted the players back on the field. This meant it wasn't even up for discussion again until 2002.

In 2001 Selig implemented testing on minor leaguers not on the 40-man roster of MLB teams since those on the 40 man roster are protected by the player's association.

Selig's problem isn't action on his part. His problem is a player's union and his inability to handle PR proactively rather that reactively.

I believe perhaps the most influential thing in this whole situation is something that Selig alluded to toward the end of his presser: that this is really a societal problem, not just a baseball problem.

Let's be real here, there's a lot more people upset over the idea that a few home runs or strikeouts might have been affected than by the number of people willing to commit felonies in order to get those dingers & K's. And if that's the majority (and of those who actually follow baseball I imagine it is) then we're so fucked up that this isn't going to really be fixed no matter what MLB does. Players, owners, et al don't exist in a vacuum, they're just parts of society like all the rest of us. They're a mirror of the rest of us and if we don't care about the more important issues here then how/why do we expect them to?

My personal opinion is that Selig is a supreme pushover and a man of little action. He had to have known about the steroids problem at least since he became commissioner, probably even earlier from his days with Milwaukee. Now if this is the case, why did he not do something about it sooner, rather than later?

I think you answered your own question there.

Selig is weak, and the union is strong. I don't know if anyone could have stood up to them, honestly. The only way to "save" baseball from payroll and steroid issues would have been to shut it down - long term. The union wouldn't agree to help the game until seasons (plural) went down the drain. By then there would probably be a new player-friendly league.

Back in '94 though, it wasn't about the issues, with the media and fans. It was about "They're greedy - it's our game!!!!". I'm not blaming the fans. But I don't think there was really any way to fix any of this.

My personal opinion is that Selig is a supreme pushover and a man of little action. He had to have known about the steroids problem at least since he became commissioner, probably even earlier from his days with Milwaukee. Now if this is the case, why did he not do something about it sooner, rather than later? As someone earlier posted, why not put a drug testing policy in place BEFORE all of this becomes public? Yes, the players union in baseball has immense power, but it takes 2 sides to offer a product such as this. Instead of bending over for the union, Selig should have stood firm and required a mandatory drug testing regiment. Perhaps an entire season would have been missed due to a player strike (a.k.a. the NHL), but the players would have eventually come around because they want to play and get their huge salaries. True, most of them could play in Japan or something, but who really believes that players like Pujols, Jeter, Rodriguez, and others would go to Japan for more than one season? Selig is an embarrassment to anybody in a leadership role. The steroid problem came full circle on his watch, and he was asleep the whole time.


Selig's power in neutered not only by the player's union but by the owners as well. If you remember, baseball got rid of Faye Vincent who was baseball's last true commissioner in a vote of no confidence mainly because he sided with the players in the collusion scandal.

Selig was then named chairman of baseball's Executive Council and his main job is to answer to the owners. It always has been. What he has managed to do is get a lot of the power previous commissioner's have had, but he still isn't the voice of the league in the same way the NFL's commissioner is.

As I said above, Selig proposed steroid testing in '94. His job after the strike, however, was to get baseball back on the field before it became about as relavent as the NHL. Owners weren't prepared for the strike and they were losing money faster than the player's union was.

I was actually kind of surprised that Selig's comments were as strong as they were & even the tiniest bit optimistic about the tone overall.



I've heard a lot of interviews with him - he actually seems like smart guy who understands the game and where it's going. He's just overpowered by the union.

I've heard a lot of interviews with him - he actually seems like smart guy who understands the game and where it's going.

Then again there's the whole All-Star game mess, which kind of makes that description hard to really get behind too.

Then again there's the whole All-Star game mess, which kind of makes that description hard to really get behind too.

I think it fits in - the guy's awful under pressure.

Then again there's the whole All-Star game mess, which kind of makes that description hard to really get behind too.

True. I would love to support the guy, but I have seen nothing from him to warrant my support. Instead, he is a weak man whom is (as mentioned above) overpowered by the player's union. It is unfortunate that they don't all see the benefit of drug testing and how the careers of all these players will be viewed in 20 years. Not to mention the possibility that many of these players will die very young (i.e. Caminiti).

So now we get a World Series home field advantage determined by steroid popping guys in a staged all-star game in a bloated league.

This is a sad day for baseball, no matter how you look at it. :(

Following the release of the Mitchell report, Chairman Henry A. Waxman and Ranking Minority Member Tom Davis released the following statement:

“This is a sad day for Major League Baseball but a good day for integrity in sports. It’s an important step towards the goal of eliminating the use of performance enhancing substances.

“The Mitchell report is sobering. It shows the use of steroids and human growth hormone has been and is a significant problem in Major League Baseball. And it shows that everyone involved in Major League Baseball bears some responsibility for this scandal.

“We are going to ask Senator George Mitchell, Commissioner Bud Selig, and the President of the Major League Players Association, Don Fehr, to testify at a House Oversight and Government Reform hearing on Tuesday, December 18. We look forward to their testimony on whether the Mitchell report’s recommendations will be adopted and whether additional measures are needed.

“We want to commend Commissioner Selig for authorizing this investigation and thank Senator Mitchell for his dedication to this effort.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the reason for this is to get Fehr in front of the House Oversight Commitee to ask him if he's willing to accept the recommendations from Mitchell and if not, why.

Somewhat anti-climactic since many of you nailed a lot of the players in the predictions.

The part I liked best was saying that these f'n cheaters created an unfair, unnatural imbalance. Unlike past drug problems in baseball (where it was a much higher percentage of users), as well as other sports including track&field, cycling and football (yes, I said football, where if you not using, you're not good enough to play), the smaller percentage of users in the Steroids Era created aberations.

My hope going forwards is that ALL of these players will be (or continue to be) condemned and those targeted for the HOF, get no more than the 25% they deserve...forever. There is no need to erase records because there is no precedent of it in baseball (Jackson is still among the top lifetime BA and Rose is still the hits leaders).

Dumb question. I didn't see two of four poster boys (along with Bonds and Clemens) for the Steroids Era: McGwire and Sosa.

Dumb question. I didn't see two of four poster boys (along with Bonds and Clemens) for the Steroids Era: McGwire and Sosa.

Well that's the problem with "comdemnation" and building up anyone not on this list - it can't possibly claim to cover everyone and everything.

Well that's the problem with "comdemnation" and building up anyone not on this list - it can't possibly claim to cover everyone and everything.

But it can cover those ON the list.

Dumb question. I didn't see two of four poster boys (along with Bonds and Clemens) for the Steroids Era: McGwire and Sosa.

Quite honestly, this was surprising at first but as I did a bit of research, it made a bit more sense.

What exactly is the evidence against McGwire and Sosa that show that they used steroids or HGH? Other than being accused by Canseco and their performance in front of Congress, I can't find any. There is no positive test. There is no link to a BALCO or such. Does that mean they did not use drugs? Hell no. Do I believe that they did? Absolutely. But I can't point to any conclusive evidence to say yes they did. Maybe that evidence will come in the future.