So my 4 year old laptop (main PC), got broken by my brother, but he says he'll buy me a new computer. I'm not looking to be a jerk or break the bank, and I really only use the computer for internet and text based games.

I've been doing some looking around, and I found a computer that I think fits what I want. Here are my questions


Pentium D vs Pentium 4 with HT - if their clock speeds are the same, which will perform better?
Intel vs AMD - I read a thread awhile ago where it was said that AMD processors run cooler. Is this still true?


Here's a link to the computer I'm looking at.

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/126588/bundleId/1545/rpem/ccd/bundleDetail.do

Like I said, my PC needs are not that big, but I like the idea of having the PVR built in. It doesn't seem to have a graphics card or any included software tho. Would it be better to buy this system directly from HP?

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/cto/computer_customize_addons_continue.do

I hope that link works, because its as close as I can go.

Somebody help. :(

dont buy your cpu at a retail store.


its best to goto a mom and pop shop and have them custom build the computer for you.

this way you can have the parts you want to be inyour computer.

or its best to build your own cpu.

I don't really know the difference between the two Pentium's, I have heard mixed reviews about the hyper-threading, but I do know that AMD is better (in personal experience as well) than Intel. For what you say you use the computer for, it probably wouldn't make THAT huge of a difference, however.

I couldn't get to computer from the HP link, but the Circuit City link looks like they are charging you a little more than you should have to pay...if you have a little computer knowledge (or grab some knowledge from those of us that do here ;)), I would highly suggest a site like buydirectpc.com. You can customize everything you want on a PC down to the case on this site and you will save yourself some money for sure.

There's my baby, that I will be hopefully buying soon.

http://www.robertbrandt.com/temp/computah.gif

Niiice.

I wish I had the money to purchase a new computer. I don't NEED one, but...wait, who the hell am I kidding, of course I need one!

Being a computer guy sucks...its like a fucking drug, lol...

lol, CWL, I didn't even notice it until you said it. *copies it* Just kidding ;)

AMD is faster and cooler, not so prevalent with OEM machines though.

dont buy your cpu at a retail store.


its best to goto a mom and pop shop and have them custom build the computer for you.

this way you can have the parts you want to be inyour computer.

or its best to build your own cpu.

Just remember if you do this you are going to get pretty much no support. It's up to you how important it is. I'd stay away from HP. I've run into their support to get them to replace things they TOLD ME WERE BROKEN and still wouldn't (thse were production servers mind you). So yeah I'm not a fan.

Now I'm even more confused

relax. this is what you need.


http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8248/c6413gz.jpg

IT MUST BE MINE!

On the computer I just built, I put in a Pentium 4 despite having always had AMDs in the past. I did it because it was cheaper, but since people had always said they run hotter, I monitor it. I haven't had a problem yet with it being anywhere near too hot. Granted, I don't run a lot of things at once typically. But for general purposes, I don't think you'll have to worry about that.

That said, most websites I found did say that the Pentium 4 doesn't run as fast as its speed says, at least compared to the same AMD. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but like I said, I've been very happy with my P4 thus far.

what about the Pentium D tho? Does the dual core do anything or is it marketing BS like Centrino?

Dual cores are great and are the wave of the future, even if Intel's solution is a bit of a hack job ;), it's still effective. But for them to really show their power applications need to be designed for them, which is not too common right now.

Also, the HP I linked to initially has a network interface card? Does this mean it doesn't have a modem, because I'm still on dial-up, can't get DSL where I live, and am not going to even deal with the cable company.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=D51F1&s=dhs#bottom_anchor

$1037, includes dual-tuners + Media Center for PVR stuff, and should do your internet / text sims just fine (plus other light games and multimedia)

If you use dial-up, add a modem. If you want to burn DVDs/CDs, change the optical drive options.

Network card in the home is for cable/dsl/ect. You still need a modem.

If you can't customize the PC enough to put a modem in, they are fairly cheap, so that shouldn't be a problem.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=D51F1&s=dhs#bottom_anchor

$1037, includes dual-tuners + Media Center for PVR stuff, and should do your internet / text sims just fine (plus other light games and multimedia)

If you use dial-up, add a modem. If you want to burn DVDs/CDs, change the optical drive options.

It seems to me that this system is much closer to the HP.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V659&l=en&oc=d91sap&s=dhs

I think the whole computer industry is a scam. I know I'm not buying another Gateway.

Dude... You're gettin' a Dell!

Dude... You're gettin' a Dell!

No. I'm not.

Best thing to do is have a nerdy computer friend around who will build you your parts from some place like newegg. That's what I did with my computer and my wife's- mine was done for about $800 with some really nice parts and hers was $600 last year for a "good enough" machine. As others have said, the support would be non-existant but with the support that companies offer these days, you may not even notice the difference :(

SI

Typically for what you spend at a retail/chain type store you could get about twice the PC online, etc.

If I get a PVR on my computer, I avoid the fees related to TiVo, etc, correct?

C'mon, haven't you seen the commercial? For only $35 a month for one year, you too can get your own new brand name computer!!!!! I got mine!!!

C'mon, haven't you seen the commercial? For only $35 a month for one year, you too can get your own new brand name computer!!!!! I got mine!!!

Watch those ads closely....I'm pretty sure it's $35 per WEEK! :eek:

Anyhow, the computer industry IS a racket and if you ask 11 people for their advice you're going to get 11 different answers rather than any sort of cohesive advice.

With that said, here is my own completely unhelpful advice:

First and most importantly, DON'T BUY THE HP. IT's an overused cliche, but HP really DOES make crap-ass computers. Who knows how or why they can consistently make generation after generation of bad PCs, but they do.

Second, I've also gone the homebrew route a couple of times, and while it's fun, rewarding, and a learning experience it can also be extremely frustrating, and just plain slow. What with all the research required and shipping times it'll probably be a month before your finished and you DO need a working computer and internet connection to properly build a PC or else you're going to have to wait until the next internet-enabled workday to solve any roadblocks that pop up....and as was mentioned earlier you get no support. Also remember that unless you can get everything thru a retailer with free shipping whatever savings you think you're getting might evaporate when you have to ship 18 components from 4 different retailers. Everytime I've built a PC I've also had to deal with getting the wrong items shipped and it's been more of a hassle tahn I allowed for.

I'm also not sure I agree with people who caution you to stay away from chain stores, as I think there ARE good deals to be had at some of these places. When you're buying Gateway or Dell you are still paying at least somewhat for the branding , but Circuit City can buy boxes of less-branded PCs in bulk and offer them at a price that no mom and pop can match....so long as you're not planning on modifying the original configuration. And Circuit City will ship for free, which can be a big savings.

If you have specific hardware needs then one of these online places that offers a 'configurator' like Dell's system is probably the way to go...you get the ability to pick and choose your hardware, but they'll toss it together for you, and verify that everything works as expected. This is probably going to cost more than building it yourself or buying a generic config, but you're getting exactly what you want and you won't have to spend a week waiting for the parts to get shipped before you realise you bought an ATA-133 HDD that isn't supported by your mothereboard.

Personally, I just bought a PC about 4 months ago and although I love the nerd-cred I was way too lazy AND poor to deal with building anything near top of the line, so I took the lazy, half-nerd approach that would get me laughed out of any serious modding discussion.

First I bought this here eMachines T6212 at circuit city for $550 w/free delivery:

http://reviews.cnet.com/eMachines_T6212/4505-3118_7-31341178.html

eMachines still carries a nasty stigma, but I believe it was purchase by Gateway a while back and they are now basically using the eMachines name to sell their AMD PCs and they are far better than their past would indicate. People laugh whenever I tell them I have a 'kick ass eMachines', but that's half the fun.

When the PC arrived I shoved another gig of dual channel RAM and a GeForce 6600GT in there, and that was the extent of my SOOPER high-tech 'modding'. The resulting machine has absolutely ZERO 'street cred' but it will run anything, it will burn anything, still has room to upgrade, and it cost me all of $800. I should note that as soon as you start swapping hardware you can say goodbye to your waranty and support, so keep that in mind. I heart my eMachines, and I would even go so far as to recommend them to everybody regardless of the unavoidable backlash that the brand name still carries with it. EMachines is also one of the only PC retailers AFAIK that actually changes their product line every quarter, so my PC isn't even available anymore.

Here's a model that's similar to the HP:

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/127600/originURLEncoded/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.circuitcity.com%252Frpsm%252FcatOid%252F-12962%252FN%252F20012961%2B20012962%2B748%252Flink%252Fref%252Frpem%252Fccd%252Fcategorylist.do/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do#tabs

Watch those ads closely....I'm pretty sure it's $35 per WEEK! :eek:

Anyhow, the computer industry IS a racket and if you ask 11 people for their advice you're going to get 11 different answers rather than any sort of cohesive advice.

With that said, here is my own completely unhelpful advice:

First and most importantly, DON'T BUY THE HP. IT's an overused cliche, but HP really DOES make crap-ass computers. Who knows how or why they can consistently make generation after generation of bad PCs, but they do.

Second, I've also gone the homebrew route a couple of times, and while it's fun, rewarding, and a learning experience it can also be extremely frustrating, and just plain slow. What with all the research required and shipping times it'll probably be a month before your finished and you DO need a working computer and internet connection to properly build a PC or else you're going to have to wait until the next internet-enabled workday to solve any roadblocks that pop up....and as was mentioned earlier you get no support. Also remember that unless you can get everything thru a retailer with free shipping whatever savings you think you're getting might evaporate when you have to ship 18 components from 4 different retailers. Everytime I've built a PC I've also had to deal with getting the wrong items shipped and it's been more of a hassle tahn I allowed for.

I'm also not sure I agree with people who caution you to stay away from chain stores, as I think there ARE good deals to be had at some of these places. When you're buying Gateway or Dell you are still paying at least somewhat for the branding , but Circuit City can buy boxes of less-branded PCs in bulk and offer them at a price that no mom and pop can match....so long as you're not planning on modifying the original configuration. And Circuit City will ship for free, which can be a big savings.

If you have specific hardware needs then one of these online places that offers a 'configurator' like Dell's system is probably the way to go...you get the ability to pick and choose your hardware, but they'll toss it together for you, and verify that everything works as expected. This is probably going to cost more than building it yourself or buying a generic config, but you're getting exactly what you want and you won't have to spend a week waiting for the parts to get shipped before you realise you bought an ATA-133 HDD that isn't supported by your mothereboard.

Personally, I just bought a PC about 4 months ago and although I love the nerd-cred I was way too lazy AND poor to deal with building anything near top of the line, so I took the lazy, half-nerd approach that would get me laughed out of any serious modding discussion.

First I bought this here eMachines T6212 at circuit city for $550 w/free delivery:

http://reviews.cnet.com/eMachines_T6212/4505-3118_7-31341178.html

eMachines still carries a nasty stigma, but I believe it was purchase by Gateway a while back and they are now basically using the eMachines name to sell their AMD PCs and they are far better than their past would indicate. People laugh whenever I tell them I have a 'kick ass eMachines', but that's half the fun.

When the PC arrived I shoved another gig of dual channel RAM and a GeForce 6600GT in there, and that was the extent of my SOOPER high-tech 'modding'. The resulting machine has absolutely ZERO 'street cred' but it will run anything, it will burn anything, still has room to upgrade, and it cost me all of $800. I should note that as soon as you start swapping hardware you can say goodbye to your waranty and support, so keep that in mind. I heart my eMachines, and I would even go so far as to recommend them to everybody regardless of the unavoidable backlash that the brand name still carries with it. EMachines is also one of the only PC retailers AFAIK that actually changes their product line every quarter, so my PC isn't even available anymore.

Here's a model that's similar to the HP:

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/127600/originURLEncoded/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.circuitcity.com%252Frpsm%252FcatOid%252F-12962%252FN%252F20012961%2B20012962%2B748%252Flink%252Fref%252Frpem%252Fccd%252Fcategorylist.do/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do#tabs


If you get a EMachine, make sure it has an AGP slot. My wife's did not, and the "intergrated" video card wouldn't work with anything.

Good post Sloppy, though the eMachine stigma sticks strongly with me :). It's by reputation only though, never used one.

If I get a PVR on my computer, I avoid the fees related to TiVo, etc, correct?


I don't know anything about this, but I did want to add that you can probably get a pretty good deal on a solid computer by going to TigerDirect and getting one of their barebones systems, then adding whatever else you need. It'll likely end up being cheaper and of better quality than a lot of what you'd get at chain stores.

You may not have any kind of service options or anthing like you would with Dell or what-not (although I'm sure TD offers some kinds of warranties), but I think the quality will be better.

So, I'm on Dell's website trying to put together a system, and it says that a modem is incompatible with XP Media Center Edition. Fantastic. I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. :( This is BS. I'm not giving Patriot Media $57 a month for high speed internet.

A similar computer on Gateway's site (Pentium D instead of Pentium 4 HT) does come with a modem tho, so does Gateway not know what they are talking about, or does Dell suck?

Is Media Center what you want? I thought that was more for set top boxes.

I don't know much about that end of it though :).

Is Media Center what you want? I thought that was more for set top boxes.

I don't know much about that end of it though :).

I wanted to wire DirecTV into the computer, so that I can PVR and then burn stuff to DVD.

Of the different Internet Security/ Anti-Virus stuff, what is the best one?

Any thoughts on Sony computers?

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=124506&WT.mc_n=3&WT.mc_t=U&cm_ven=COMPARISON%20SHOPPING&cm_cat=CNET&cm_pla=DATAFEED->PRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=3

It seems to have everything I want, and the price is much better than building the same thing from Dell or Gateway, plus it's not like I ever used the Gateway tech support in the last 6 years.

i never like retail stores computer.

the parts are cheap inside and most of the time hard to upgrade it.

do you have a local computer store that custom makes the cpu the way you want.
its a lot better that way and will be easy to upgrade in the future.

i never like retail stores computer.

the parts are cheap inside and most of the time hard to upgrade it.

do you have a local computer store that custom makes the cpu the way you want.
its a lot better that way and will be easy to upgrade in the future.

I don't know. :confused: My brother does know a cop who builds computers as a side business, but I don't want to be paying $40 an hour for labor.

The only thing I know, is that I need to make a move soon before I get kicked out of my OOTP leagues.

Nah, retail shops are fine if you don't plan on providing your own support and fixes, just stay away from HP.

As far as Sony, I don't know. I thought their Vaio laptops were cool but heard their support wasn't too hot. Just second-hand information though, I've never dealt with them.

I was reading some CNet reviews on the different Vaio RB line and they seem ok as non gaming computers. It's not like I can't always go out 6 months from now and throw a video card in there.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_VAIO_RB42G/4505-3118_7-31383024-2.html?tag=top

Dola, is a computer with a 2.80 GHz Pentium D and 5.1 speaker system worth $125 more than the same system with a 3.20 GHz Pentium 4 with HT technology? I mainly mean from a performance basis. Will the dual core make up for a slower processor?

Probably not initially, probably will even be slower. In the long run you could be looking at a 50% speed improvement over the P4 in some apps with the dual core.

Watch those ads closely....I'm pretty sure it's $35 per week
Man, I'm losing it. I KNEW it was $35 a week, otherwise it wouldn't be as much of a laughable ad. I can't even make a joke without screwing it up!

Probably not initially, probably will even be slower. In the long run you could be looking at a 50% speed improvement over the P4 in some apps with the dual core.

Would you get the dual core? or are the applications that take full advantage of it a long way off?

Would you get the dual core? or are the applications that take full advantage of it a long way off?

I got a Dell Dimension 9100 for work, with a Pentium D 820 (2.8GHz). I could have had a 3 GHZ with Hyperthreading for $100 less, but I chose the dual.

The nice thing about dual cores, and HT to a lesser degree, is that the system will typically exhibit normal responsiveness when a particular app uses 100% of the CPU for a while. In my case, I might be building my code and I can flip to a web browser and it runs just like I'm doing nothing else. I like that.

As jeff061 indicates, a dual core is good for 1.5 times a single core on average, when loaded, which means it has at least two threads to run continously. This means that, when loaded, a Pentium D 820 is more or less like a 4.2 GHz P4 without HT.

Since it seems that multi-cores are where most of the performance gains are going to come from in the forseeable future, I expect developers to start focusing on ways to make their apps, including games, take advantage of them. In other words, I expect the dual core I have to get better over time.

As an aside, do check the Dell Small Business website Outrageous Desktop Deals. They usually have pretty good deals on the 9100 with a flat-panel monitor, although I should the 1905FP probably isn't a good choice for games and movies because of its slow response time.

I suddenly find myself in the market as well, now that my four-year-old motherboard has apparently decided it no longer wants to work for me (fans all work, but nothing, not even a beep happening at startup, which is a rather bad sign from all that I've gathered).

I'm quite willing to build my own box as it was what I did last time. My dilemma is trying to figure out what I need. At this point, it looks like a CPU-mobo-graphics card combo (all are presently what I built four years ago...hard drive and RAM are all less than a year old). I went to CompUSA (hold the snide comments, please) to feel out what they'd recommend and the guy behind the counter was pushing a $250 Asus (I think) mobo with another $250 for an Athlon processor. I've also seen that the graphics card form factors are changing again as they now move to PCI Express, which supposedly is superior to the AGP cards available. Pulling all these components together from CompUSA would've been about $700. My aim is to plant the computer fairly close to the top end of the curve while allowing for the opportunity to upgrade the processor or graphics card down the road. Given the rapidly changing state of computer technology, this is obviously easier said than done. I will also note the primary uses of this machine (aside from the Internet, of course) will be for my wife to continue her digital scrapbooking work in Elements 3, while I play the occasional 3D shooter or whatever else may come down the pike (I don't play a whole lot of games anymore, but a better rig may induce me to do so going forward).

I've always bought Intel before now because they were a known quantity (and partially to keep my brother employed by Intel--no longer the case--and to improve the stock portfolio of relatives in the family who do hold Intel--still the case). I've also read in places that AMD always seems to be on its last legs for one reason or another, but they're still there. Is Intel or AMD truly superior to one another anymore or is there really no difference?

As for the graphics card situation, AGP is obviously more prevalent right now, but if PCI Express is set to take over, would it be worth the extra clams to get in position with that form factor instead?

Obviously, both these questions directly impact what sort of motherboard ends up being purchased. What makers should be considered and what should be avoided? (This question could also extend to the graphics cards as well)

Thanks in advance for any advice offered.

If you plan on keeping this system for a long time I'd get the dual core, the potential benefits are just too nice and the lifespan of the system will be longer.

Wolfpack, if a guy is recommending a motherboard for anywhere over $150 stay the hell away from him. Really wouldn't expect you to be breaking the $100 mark. Asus is a good brand and I've had good luck with the Nvidia chipsets.

AMD vrs Intel. Right now AMD is superior to Intel in price, speed, power consumption and temperature. As far as I am concerned the only reason to go Intel is if you are going OEM and they don't offer AMD cpu's.

I'd get PCI express just so you are compatible with video cards that come out a couple years from now. Other than that, right now, there is no difference between the two.

Do your shopping at http://www.newegg.com

Doing a very quick config

Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131530)
Memory (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440)
Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143030) or sub in an ATI card if you like
CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103539)

This would be a pretty damn fast system at $765. Bump the video and cpu up and down to change the price as you'd like.

Only thing I'm not sure about is whether socket 939 is still the way to go. IF anyone else has any opinions go for it :)

newegg or pricewatch.com is a good site too (or if you want it assembled for you but have a lot of config abilities, buydirectpc.com, like I suggested earlier)

If you plan on keeping this system for a long time I'd get the dual core, the potential benefits are just too nice and the lifespan of the system will be longer.



Well I had my laptop for almost 4 years, and while I was considering getting something newer, it wasn't that big a deal for what I was using it for. As it is, I'd probably plan on keeping the new computer at least that long, maybe upgrading some stuff a couple years down the road.

Thanks to all the help from everyone.

Thanks for the advice. I'm now having to reconsider my options a bit. I may just try to see if I can replace the motherboard now and just upgrade in the future. Reason I'm having to reconsider is once again our current crappy car decided to stall out at an intersection and I had to turn it over twice to get it going again, thus bringing home the reminder that there are other more pressing needs before the computer could be turned into a whiz-bang screamer again. (It totally sucks to be a one-income household in a place as expensive to live in as Ann Arbor.)

This is what I got.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7439505&type=product&productCategoryId=cat15108&id=1124431815424

:p