Ok, so a local high school has fired one of their teachers who also coaches softball. The reason, her boyfriend video taped them having intercourse and posted it on the internet and somehow the students and school board found the video.

Supposedly she didn't even know they were being taped and that it was on the interent. I went to high school with her boyfriend and from what I know of him I wouldn't put this past him, even though I always thought he was gay.

Anyway, there has been a lot of debate around here about whether or not the school can legally fire her.

Thoughts?

Thoughts?

My thoughts are...
Where is the video?

My first thought:

If students have seen the video (and surely are passing the link around to other students), I would think that she would want to resign.

I'm gonna be the first to say this..

Balldog, you know/meet some strange people :)

I don't think she should have been fired. After all, she did not know she was being taped and didn't put it on the internet. She should be allowed to resign (if she wants). A firing for this reason will harm her future job prospects, I'd think. Since she wasn't at fault here, I don't think she should be punished by the school board.

This will almost certainly be a matter of state law and the conditions of her employment.

If she is simply an employee at will, then the only thing that would keep them from firing her would be if they did it for an illegal reason (race, age, gender, etc.). Being an unwilling participant in net porn does not qualify as a "protected" class under the law, and she will be SOL. It would be the same as if they fired her for having red hair--no recourse if you are an employee at will.

If, however, she is like a lot of teachers and has an employment contract and/or tenure, then she can only be fired for cause. I am 90% sure that any such contract/tenure system would have a generic "morals" provision which would generally state that you can be dismissed for immoral acts.

At this point, two interests come into play. Because she has a contractual right to this employment, it is considered "property" for due process purposes, and she cannot be deprived of it without due process of law. All this means is that she gets to say her side of the story. They cannot fire her without giving her a chance to put on her case. They don't have to beleive her, but if they over-reacted and told her to clean out her desk before she could say boo--then she has a good case (this assumes that the school is public).

They probably gave her enough of a hearing to satisfy due process, however. Any public school board worth its salt knows all about procedural due process. More interesting, therefore, is a straight up analysis of the "morals" clause that I assume is in her contract. The question here is--was her conduct "immoral." Or, more to the point--was the school reasonable in assuming that her conduct was "immoral" based on all of the information that it had? Remember that her side of the story is only that--her side of the story.

If she is simply an employee at will, then the only thing that would keep them from firing her would be if they did it for an illegal reason (race, age, gender, etc.). Being an unwilling participant in net porn does not qualify as a "protected" class under the law, and she will be SOL. It would be the same as if they fired her for having red hair--no recourse if you are an employee at will.

Most teachers are unionized, so its probably not that simple.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are...
Where is the video?

My roommate's girlfriend is an assistant coach and from what I have been told, no one in their right state of mind would want to see this woman naked.


I'm gonna be the first to say this..

Balldog, you know/meet some strange people :)

I agree, personally I haven't seen this guy since a couple weeks before graduation. I thought/hoped he had fallen off the face of the earth.

Was it "Wifey"?

If they can kick Frenchie off American Idol, certainly they can fire this woman as a teacher.

On another note, there was a girl, Libby Hoeler, a few years ago that hit the internet with 4(?) videos of her, on webcam, naked dancing around masturbating. Supposedly the story goes that she was at college and sent them to her boyfriend, she later cheated on said boyfriend, he gets pissed and puts videos on the internet. If you allow people to not be hired because of questionable but legal things they have done on the internet this chick will be screwed for life.

teacher - not hot
libby - hot

I cant ever understand that a person could be fired by reasons outside his work.

I cant ever understand that a person could be fired by reasons outside his work.

Where I work we have to sign a Community Standing Agreement, which basically says we agree to being held within high regard outside of work. Which I would still think would be debatable.

Most teachers are unionized, so its probably not that simple.
Did you read the rest of his post? Or has that second cup of coffee not kicked in yet? ;)

I cant ever understand that a person could be fired by reasons outside his work.
It would be because there was some sort of morals clause in the contract. It would be a condition of employment like any other--enforcable unless it was an illegal condition.

I cant ever understand that a person could be fired by reasons outside his work.

Our high school wrestling coach (and also a pretty good social studies teacher) got canned at my school for being caught on tape, in a police sting propositioning hookers. They even showed it on the nightly news. I know a lot of people were upset when he got canned because he was such a good teacher.

Funny thing is, fast forward a couple years and our rival high school (same school district) hired him and he ended up coaching them to a state title. He really was a great wrestling coach.

As long as she's union I see a legal battle coming up. Is having sex with your husband "immoral"? If she was selling the tape or if she released it then maybe I'd agree with the morality clause but not in this case.

I cant ever understand that a person could be fired by reasons outside his work.

Sure...pedifiles make great first grade teachers.

Not husband, boyfriend. If this is a catholic school, this could be a problem.
eh still. From what everyone is saying, it's a miracle she's getting laid at all :)

As long as she's union I see a legal battle coming up. Is having sex with your husband "immoral"? If she was selling the tape or if she released it then maybe I'd agree with the morality clause but not in this case.

Not husband, boyfriend. If this is a catholic school, this could be a problem.

GAYLORD FOCKER the timestamp monster is back!

As long as she's union I see a legal battle coming up. Is having sex with your husband "immoral"? If she was selling the tape or if she released it then maybe I'd agree with the morality clause but not in this case.
Yeah, that is my question as well. If she wasn't putting the tapes up on the internet, then all she did was have sex with her boyfriend. Unless she works for a Christian high school which frowns on the whole premarital sex thing, what did she do to violate the morals clause?

This is a public school, not a catholic school. However, it is in a catholic dominant community in which two catholic schools and a public school combine into one public school at the start of 9th grade.

I cant ever understand that a person could be fired by reasons outside his work.

Teachers have a responsiblilty to educate and influence the younger portion of soceity. This(whether intentional or not) is not influencing this younger portion of society in a good way.

Like several others mentioned, I'd say this will all come down to the language written into the teacher's CBA.

C.B.A= Can Bang Anyone "clause" or Collective Bargaining Agreement?

My guess is she'll end up getting suspended for a year (probably with pay, knowing how powerful the teaching unions are).

/is trying to become a teacher
/is hoping to get suspended with pay someday

Did you read the rest of his post? Or has that second cup of coffee not kicked in yet? ;)

Oh, my tolerance is such that the first cup puts me to sleep, the second puts me in a normal state, and the third actually makes me somewhat alert.

The coffee club at work ran out of coffee after the first pot this morning, so I only got one cup. I'll be alert some time tomorrow.

My roommate's girlfriend is an assistant coach and from what I have been told, no one in their right state of mind would want to see this woman naked.

I think we should be the judge of that. Although softball isn't a sport that makes me think of attractive women.

If it is public the CBA will most likely protect her. The union will have a duty to file a grievance (duty of fair representation) and if they don't she will be able to sue both the union and school district (as co-defendants) in federal court.

I'm not sure about Ohio (if that is where this happened) but on the west coast any CBA worth the paper it is printed on is going to protect this teacher to do what she wants in her own bedroom. Unless the school can show that she was the one posting them on the internet (which would still give rise to an argument about whether this violates the CBA-depending on the language of the agreement) the arbitrator is going to reinstate her and make the school remove any references to the event from her file.

And even if it does violate some clause of the CBA, if it is the first time she has been in trouble most CBAs will still protect her job (she may get in some trouble, but not lose her job).

Heeeeyy. I play softball. Well I did until this semester. And Jennie Finch and Cat Osterman both play softball. My boyfriend thinks they are hot so they must be.