Is there a feature or tool that will allow us to import a current/saved season from another version of FOF, ie FOF 4? Thanks in advance.


Also, good looking screenshots.

No, I don't think that's a possibility due to the new player file formats.

Not 100% positive though...


Todd

None, built into the game. I doubt one would be available from 3rd party developers any time soon if ever because of the aforementioned reason in the previous post.

This is one reason why I think I will have an issue buying FOF2K4. I would like to keep my careers constant, even if it is for 10,000 seasons. The ability to import previous careers/stats/history plays a major role when playing football sims. The only one that has done this to date has been FBpro. Hopefully in TPF we will be able to do this. If FOF2K4 had this option, I would be buying it on day one. :)

edit; spelling

Has that ever, that you know of, been mentioned as a possible feature/tool/add-on?

Doesn't it get frustrating that every year or so, when Jim G. creates another episode of "As the Down Marker Turns", and you have staked about 30-300 years in your football universe, that you have to start over?

I may be in the minority, but wouldn't that be a good feature or function?

Originally posted by KJDelaney
Has that ever, that you know of, been mentioned as a possible feature/tool/add-on?

Doesn't it get frustrating that every year or so, when Jim G. creates another episode of "As the Down Marker Turns", and you have staked about 30-300 years in your football universe, that you have to start over?

I may be in the minority, but wouldn't that be a good feature or function?

You are not the minority. I feel the same exact way. I would be buying this game if this feature would be added for the next version of FOF. This is the only feature that is missing for me.

I brought this point up in the thread following the Q&A session with Jim and many folks were a bit condescending about it saying backward compatibility would stunt development of the game.

I may buy this new version yet, but I agree that sometime Jim needs to come to a final format to use on out that makes his game compatible. He loses a certain amount of customers each time a new game doesn't have it. For those of us without the time to play online, we need continuity in solo leagues. It's a real bitch to devote lots of time to several years of a dynasty you really like then be asked to throw it out to start all over with the newest game.

Originally posted by maximus
You are not the minority. I feel the same exact way. I would be buying this game if this feature would be added for the next version of FOF. This is the only feature that is missing for me.

Just to be nitpicky, your second statement in no way makes the first statement true. You both may well be in the minority and judging by the posts about the game I'd venture to say you are.

I'm not one concerned one whit about backwards compatibility myself due to my playing style but I can appreciate the opinions and feelings of those who do care. I've been reading a very similar thread on the OOTP board and due to the continued online leagues, it's needed for that game.

Still, at some point features are going to have to be dropped due to compatibility issues and personally my warm and fuzzy feelings about supporting older versions wanes when I consider that I'm now spending money for a lesser product just to make you guys happy. Jims not keeping customers either way if either you or I am not going to buy the game because of how he goes about designing it. It's not a win win possibility for Jim.

I guess I fall into the why not buy the new product and run concurrent careers camp. You don't lose the old game when you get the new one and if the old one still fills a void for you then keep playing it. I do that with many games. *COUGH* CHAMP MAN *COUGH*

You're not being asked to throw anything out like Leonidas says. You're simply not. You still have the game, you can still run the career as long as you'd like. What you're being asked is that if you want to utilize the NEW features of the NEW game that you have NEWLY bought that you start a NEW career with the NEW game.

If you don't want to, nothing lost really. The new features aren't enough of a draw to cause you to purchase the new product. The tradeoff for Jim is how many people play your way and decide to pass on the new game vs how many people will pass on the game if the feature set isn't vastly improved over the last version they bought.

Until the screenies I was in this camp quite frankly. The printed list of features didn't particularly grab me as being worth a new version and I was justifying it to support Jims efforts. If I was less of a fan of the games I could certainly see me taking a pass on that. The screenies sold me though and I am currently a happy customer in waiting.

Also, I don't see how there's any way to do it this season. For example, the game can't fabricate career stats from a game that didn't store them. It can't so the best you'll get is importing old guys who look and feel exactly like newly created guys with zero history in the game and with likely many newer features not properly affecting them anyway. Most games I've seen with backwards compatibility end up like this. I'm not trying to be cute but in that case I'd honestly rather just keep that career going than raping it like that.

With the addition of multiplayer leagues I would hope that the ability to continue a league begun in FOF2004 would "from here on out" be an standard feature in any future FOF versions. Having this ability in past version would have been nice but it is understandable that it is not, from now on "I'd say" this feature is A MUST.

You're not cute. But, ummm, yeah, you did say exactly what I wanted to say. Except, y'know, more eloquent and coherent. Yeah.

I start a new career with every patch, because I don't want to "taint' the new-and-improved version of the game with my previous successes from old versions. In virtually every text sim, within 5-10 years I've built a very strong, if not dominant, team. I want a challenge, and what excites me about each new patch, and especially each new version, is that the game gets a bit more difficult.

I've owned OOTP3 through 5, and never even remotely considered importing a career. For example, in my current OOTP5 career I'm winning 95-110 games a year, and near the top of the league in virtually every on and off the field measurable category. I will take advantage of OOTP6's improved AI by starting over with a weak team and having the more difficult challenge of building, rather than starting on top with my old team and simply having to maintain.

I don't feel that I've missed anything at all by not being able to import careers in FOF's. If anything, the fact that I can't makes me feel like there have been significant changes in the game's data structure and internal workings, rather than just new features having been added on top of the same old engine (which is the feel I get from OOTP).

Originally posted by SkyDog
I start a new career with every patch, because I don't want to "taint' the new-and-improved version of the game with my previous successes from old versions. In virtually every text sim, within 5-10 years I've built a very strong, if not dominant, team. I want a challenge, and what excites me about each new patch, and especially each new version, is that the game gets a bit more difficult.

I've owned OOTP3 through 5, and never even remotely considered importing a career. For example, in my current OOTP5 career I'm winning 95-110 games a year, and near the top of the league in virtually every on and off the field measurable category. I will take advantage of OOTP6's improved AI by starting over with a weak team and having the more difficult challenge of building, rather than starting on top with my old team and simply having to maintain.

I don't feel that I've missed anything at all by not being able to import careers in FOF's. If anything, the fact that I can't makes me feel like there have been significant changes in the game's data structure and internal workings, rather than just new features having been added on top of the same old engine (which is the feel I get from OOTP).


BUT, Fbpro makes a good point about multi-player leagues. This would be pretty important if you wanted to keep going in one and not starting over with ever version.

Originally posted by GrantDawg
BUT, Fbpro makes a good point about multi-player leagues. This would be pretty important if you wanted to keep going in one and not starting over with ever version. I agree with that statement, but to me this is probably a place where you just can't have it both ways. There is always going to be a conflict between the needs of people who play the game differently.

A classic example of this would be that infernal "triples" rating in OOTP. It makes 100% perfect sense to have a triples ratings if you're playing a historical league, but it makes no sense whatsoever to have a triples ratings if you're playing a fictional moving-forward league.

I still hold to my strong opinion that the attempt to be all things to all people that OOTP makes is why it still feels like a "jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none" game.

Back to multi-player though, I completely understand that it would be desired to continue an online league. At the same time, this desire, if followed, will hold back the development of a stronger single player experience every single time.

In a perfect world, there'd be enough text simmers out there that more "speciality" games could exist:

Career Sim Multiplayer Football--Focuses on multiplayer-related issues only. Very little time spent improving draft, free agent, and game-planning AI, since the human is going to do that anyway. Better HTML reports and other stuff like that is added every year. New features built on top of same basic engine allow leagues to carry on from version-to-version infinitely.

General Manager Football--Single-player oriented game. Focus is heavy on AI-related issues, such as AI roster building, game planning, drafting, free agency, depth charting, etc., so that the computer handles these things very well for the AI teams, but also for the macromanaging owner who just wants to let the computer handle depth charting and game planning, so he can focus on trading, free agency, drafting and finances. (Buccaneer has multiple orgasms when this game is released.)

Head Coach Football--AI and long-term game stability perhaps aren't as strong as in CSMF and GMF, because the "Head Coach" player calls every play of every game, and simply doesn't make it through as many seasons. In lieu of focusing on such things, the developer includes hundreds and hundreds of plays to call. The player can put together a playbook of X number of plays for each game, and put in Y number of new plays each week. Play-calling AI is top-notch, adapting to the player's tendencies to try to outsmart him in the game of chess.

I could go on (Historical Football, etc.), but you get the idea. Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen so far in the genre, the "perfect" game that works for all kinds of players is a near-impossibility.

--Ben

SkyDog, just add the Historical Football to the GM Football game and I would never stop until I'm dry. :)

Seriously, you are right. That is why I strongly prefer the 'jack-of-all-trades' games because at least there would be something to play instead of nothing at all.

Originally posted by Buccaneer
SkyDog, just add the Historical Football to the GM Football game and I would never stop until I'm dry. :)

Seriously, you are right. That is why I strongly prefer the 'jack-of-all-trades' games because at least there would be something to play instead of nothing at all. I hear ya. I guess it turns out that you're a little more optimistic than me then, Mr. Curmudgeon. :D

I agree with your basic argument SkyDog that it is impossible to make a Sim that is perfect for everyone, since it is obvious that gamers have widely varied preferences.

What I do not see is how that argument applies to this issue. Putting in the ability to use/import previous dynasties allows all playstyles free reign, since it would in no way prevent those who want to start new dynasties with each version or patch from doing so. With most design decisions, you have to annoy/alienate some people in order to please others, but I don't see how having this in the game would curtail someone's enjoyment, since using the feature is optional.

Originally posted by Samdari
I agree with your basic argument SkyDog that it is impossible to make a Sim that is perfect for everyone, since it is obvious that gamers have widely varied preferences.

What I do not see is how that argument applies to this issue. Putting in the ability to use/import previous dynasties allows all playstyles free reign, since it would in no way prevent those who want to start new dynasties with each version or patch from doing so. With most design decisions, you have to annoy/alienate some people in order to please others, but I don't see how having this in the game would curtail someone's enjoyment, since using the feature is optional. In the Q&A, Jim mentioned that the reason for this version being incompatible was due to some large steps forward having been made in data structure, record keeping, etc. For those of us that these things are very important to (single players), it is worth it. For those of us who are primarily into multi-player, the desire would be for the data structure to remain more static so that careers could carry forward.

Originally posted by SkyDog
In the Q&A, Jim mentioned that the reason for this version being incompatible was due to some large steps forward having been made in data structure, record keeping, etc. For those of us that these things are very important to (single players), it is worth it. For those of us who are primarily into multi-player, the desire would be for the data structure to remain more static so that careers could carry forward.

I agree that everyone would like to keep their league history on import. This as you say would not work when significant changes are made in the data structure. I am stictly a solo player with no interest in multi player ( I just don't have the time to do it right). And though I believe my league history is very important I still would at least like to be able to import my current roster even if the stat history couldn't come with it. I see no difference in starting a new career with a new roster and no history or starting a new career in the new game with my old roster and no history. At least with my old roster I will be starting with players I already know and off and def schemes in place.

I realise there are new ratings in the game (gunner, holder, long snapper, any others?). I would think these skills could be randomly generated base on position played ala linemen for snapper, safety or speed guy with strength for gunner, and qb's or playerys with good hands for holder.

With regard to multiplayer, what happens to your league in a year or two when a new version comes out and 16 guys vote to move to the new game and 16 want to stay with the old?

As I said I won't be playing multi player but I thought I'd throw out the quesiton as it does need some consideration. Perhaps a third party utility could be developed to "pull" the stats from each version and keep a league history seperate of the game if the mod had the right info to do it? I don't know as a non-programmer these questions are easy to ask. In the end it will be up to Jim either way.