This sounds like something you would see in an OOTP online league.... anyhows the Red Sox have placed Ramirez on irrevocable waivers. Meaning he is available for any team who wants to pay his salary for the rest of his contract...

Not sure how many teams could even afford him, but my first instinct is this is the type of thing where classic George Steinbrenner would demand that his guys pick him up with the sole purpose of playing him only vs the Red Sox...

Thoughts?

It's a great move, for the reason Neyer suggests - Steinbrenner's never gonna be more frustrated and prone to making an irrational decision then he is just a few days after losing the WS, so throw out the bait and see if he can help himself.

Manny wasn't worth $20M a year, even when people thought salaries would keep going up. He's certainly not worth it now, and won't be worth it 3-5 years from now.

Wow. Interesting move. I'm sure they won't lose him, but you have to wonder what kind of message Manny will take from this. I was under the impression that we was a flake, but still popular in the clubhouse. I guess not.

Originally posted by Alan T
This sounds like something you would see in an OOTP online league.... No, that would be if they made fourteen high-profile trades in three days, half with the same team.

I tihnk it's simply a combination of his attitude, his high price tag, and the sheer number of free agents they will have after 2004. They've got to get rid of him so they can pay Garciaparra, Varitek, maybe Pedro (or find a replacement for him), plus a couple of other starters.

It's worth a shot. I'm just hoping that George doesn't take the bait. He will be able to get Sheffield or Vlad for significantly less than $20 million.

I marvel at guys like Manny, Carl Everett, and the like. Teams tie themselves down to these highly-talented distractions with monster contracts, and then do crazy things to wriggle themselves off the hook when things go sour. And THEN some other team comes along and takes the burden off of their hands.

I think Manny is done with the Red Sox, regardless. He'll end up as a Yankee, or a Brave, or a Dodger, or a Ranger, or somewhere else whose desperate for his skills and is willing to roll the dice on his flaky personality.

When I win the Powerball and make many more millions on the Ryan Leaf Guide to Individual Success series of audio tapes, my professional sports team will never buy into guys like this.

I hope to god the Yankees sign him. An outfield of Beltran/Manny/Godzookie looks pretty damn good to me.

Braves can't afford Manny.

Depends on if the ownership is willing to go over the salary cap threshold to add his bat. We've got some salary room with Ashby and Jordan coming off the books, but I think the money might be better spent upgrading the middle infield and perhaps going after Vlad. Plus, we still need a first baseman.

Josh

Shawn Green will be the Dodgers' 1B next year.

Yanks say no.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1650323

Just shows how stupid these big signing packages are. Many in Cleveland were up in arms when Manny left, now Cleveland can have him back if they are willing to devote 40% of their payroll for him.

This shows trades are almost irrelevant. In the past you'd have to give up half your minors for a guy like Ramirez. Now you can have him if you are just willing to pay him, which it seems no one is.

I wonder if Texas did this with A-Rod if anyone outside New York would be willing or able to pick up the tab.

I think I read that Texas offered A-Rod to Boston, but when Boston offered Manny in exchange, Texas said no thanks.

Wow. That's harsh. Ramirez is one of the best right-handed hitter out there and he can't find a home this off-season.

What's the chance of the Mets 1) needing to grab some headline back from the Yankees and 2) needing a bat in the outfield actually going for it?

Originally posted by daedalus
Wow. That's harsh. Ramirez is one of the best right-handed hitter out there and he can't find a home this off-season.

What's the chance of the Mets 1) needing to grab some headline back from the Yankees and 2) needing a bat in the outfield actually going for it?

I would say the chances are slim. The Mets say they are actually trying to build a team with youth and chemistry in mind now instead of just signing some players and plugging them in somewhere. They are going to take a hard look at Vlad this offseason because he is just entering his prime, but they are most likely going to look to add a starter and if they don't land Vlad they will probably stick with the current lineup.

For the 1st time for as long as I can remember the Mets aren't looking to spend a ton because they finally accepted the fact that their window of opportunity closed with the current Piazza led Met team.

I read the ESPN analysis and they said this was a clear sign Boston intended to offer Ramirez on the trading block. WTF! They let him dangle for nithing and no one wants him, so now they expect to trade him. So what's the offer?

"OK, you don't want him for nothing. We'll throw in Mike Timlin and our best prospect. Will you take him now? We want nothing in return."

I guess a "trade" will basically involve some token veteran or prospect that's really worth nothing in x-change for Ramirez and the committment from Boston to add cash to help alleviate the salary drain. All the negotiation is in how much cash Boston adds.

I think that they'll have to take on someone else's salary headache. Unfortunately, Ramirez is the biggest salary problem in the league. At least A-rod looks fairly close to being worth his money going forward.

I think that the real problem is the years that are left as much or more than the money. Will Ramirez even be a $10 million player in three years, let alone five?

Originally posted by oykib
I think that the real problem is the years that are left as much or more than the money. Will Ramirez even be a $10 million player in three years, let alone five?

Yep. You know, as bad as the Tigers were this year, think of how bad they would be if Juan Gone had taken them up on that 9 year, $180M offer they made a few years ago. They might have won 50 games this year, but with a payroll $20M more, and with no end in sight to that contract.

Come to think of it, maybe the Tigers should take Manny and a good prospect in exchange for Bobby Higginson.

Its an interesting move by the Sox. I cant imagine there is any market for claiming him but it speaks clearly that he is on the trade block.

On the trade block I think he has SOME value. Large contracts with fewer years for one long contract for alot of years. He IS a great player with a bad contract(in todays market). Be fun to see if he moves anywhere.

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Come to think of it, maybe the Tigers should take Manny and a good prospect in exchange for Bobby Higginson.I'm guessing that's the only way they'll manage to get rid of Ramirez. Who out there have contracts they're just dying to get rid of? The only one with big contract that comes to mind is Kendall. But I don't really see Pittsburgh being able to take on the difference.

Didn't they ditch Giles, though? You'd think between getting rid of Kendall and getting a younger, cheaper Nady for Giles that they'd be able to take his salary.

Originally posted by SackAttack
Didn't they ditch Giles, though? You'd think between getting rid of Kendall and getting a younger, cheaper Nady for Giles that they'd be able to take his salary.

They are trying to make room to see what J.R. House can do.

Originally posted by SackAttack
Didn't they ditch Giles, though? You'd think between getting rid of Kendall and getting a younger, cheaper Nady for Giles that they'd be able to take his salary.They were trying to get rid of both contracts, though. Kendall's is about 12M, i think. Swapping Kendall's out for Ramirez's would add quite a lot to their payroll.

Originally posted by Ronnie Dobbs2
The Sox don't necessarily need to get big contracts in return. It could be they ship him to a mid-market for a decent/good prospect, and agree to pay half his salary. At least that way they'd get something in return.I don't know that the issue is so much what they can get in return. I think it's more what they'll have to take to get rid of The Contract. I don't know of that many teams in the league that can afford to add ~$10M to their payroll (in the example of the Red Sox being willing to pay half his salary).

Seattle would love to get rid of Jeff Cirillo and his $7M salary. However, would they be willing to pay an additional $13M per year to ditch Cirillo and add Ramirez? How many more years on his deal?

I don't see Boston being able to ditch Manny without paying a large portion of his contract to whoever takes him.

By the way, I think this news ought to put a big hole in the MLBPA's argument that collusion has been happening among the owners to drive down salaries. Ummm, when one of the best hitters in the game is waived because his salary is too high, I think the collusion argument goes out the window - face it Fehr, the economics in baseball are not favoring A-Rod type contracts right now.

Angels learned their lesson about overpaying for Boston sluggers with Mo Vaughn, one would hope.

The Mets, well...there's no telling with them.

Dodgers might. Cubs don't really have room for Manny with Alou and Sosa. Who'd play center?

Braves might if Sheff ditches, though.

Originally posted by Ronnie Dobbs2
You don't think the Dodgers, Angels, Mets, or maybe even Braves or Cubs would take Manny on at 10 million a year? I'd have to think there'd be a taker somewhere in there.The Dodgers might, if the new owner wants to make a splash and, as SackAttack mentioned, Brian Jordan and Andy Ashby coming off the book does help. (Doesn't Hundley come off the book this year as well?) Although, Kevin Brown and Darren Dreifort still kills their overall team salary.

The Angels might since Arthur Moreno seems like he'd be willing to spend the money and Tim Salmon is supposedly moving to DH on a full-time basis (I have crappy knees and watching him run makes *me* cringe). I just have a feeling that they're targeting Miguel Tejada and possibly an arm, though. In which case, there might not be money there left over for Ramirez.

If you look up the thread, you'd see me mentioning the Mets myself. I though they'd consider it to "top" the Yankees and to bolster their weak outfield. Somebody else disagreed and made a very good argument against that possibility.

The Braves would have the financial mean with Greg Maddux coming off the book, if they decide to replace Gary Sheffield's salary with Ramirez's. I have a tough time seeing Bobby Cox dealing with Ramirez's sometimes-lackadasical play, though. Of course, how much clout Cox has with players acquisition may make that point moot.

The Cubs might be a possibility since they'd have the financial resource but, then, that would mean moving Moises Alou. That would have to be considered a possibility.

Two other possitility that just came to mind:

What about Baltimore? They have money and they supposedly want to make a "splash" this offseason. Is that a possibility?

How about San Francisco? Their right-field is open now that they realize Jose Cruz, Jr is, y'know, Jose Cruz, Jr. Do they have the money to fit him into right-field? Ramirez fighting the wind in San Francisco's right-field would be entertainment all on its own but having him hit with Barry Bonds on 1st base would be a crazy 3-4.

Originally posted by dawgfan
By the way, I think this news ought to put a big hole in the MLBPA's argument that collusion has been happening among the owners to drive down salaries. Ummm, when one of the best hitters in the game is waived because his salary is too high, I think the collusion argument goes out the window - face it Fehr, the economics in baseball are not favoring A-Rod type contracts right now.

I don't know about that, only because from what I've read, the player's union has evidence that all free agent offers from last year were logged in a central "clearing house" in New York, where all teams had access to them. Plus, the union isn't focusing on collusion at the "star level" - realizing, of course, that Thome and Glavine got pretty good deals last year - but rather, at the mid-level free agents, guys who only got 1 year, $1M offers after making $4-6M in previous years. That's the focus.

The problem is that the owners think they are too clever to get caught. Yet they are not clever enough to pay players what they are worth.