A new path to the NBA?

[Eaglesfan27]

Jeremy Tyler decides to go pro in Europe after he completes his junior year of high school basketball:

Basketball Prospect Leaving High School to Play in Europe - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/sports/ncaabasketball/23prospect.html?_r=1&hp)

[GoldenEagle]

This is interesting. FIFA has a requirement that you can not leave your country until you are 18. I think there might be some sort of loophole though. I wonder if the governing body of international basketball will look to do something similar.

I just don't see many young American players leaving after the Brandon Jennings experiment.

[bhlloy]

This was an excellent article I thought

One giant leap for Tyler - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=AmTox4iO6TzP3fKGalfqAb85nYcB?slug=dw-tyler042209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

I say good luck to the kid. As far as I can see nothing shady here, he's making the decision for reasons that make sense to him and his family, and he's only going to catch shit for it because if more people did it the NCAA cash cow would explode.

At the end of the day, he could get paid in almost any other profession (except football, and that new league might change that) in the US.

[Izulde]

I think it's a smart avenue to take personally, kind of like going to a community college for a technical degree in some ways.

It's great for professional development and if these kids wind up going to college later, they'll have a greater appreciation for education because they're older and better able to understand the value of it.

The current college basketball environment strikes me as a joke. It's my layman opinion that a fairly high number of these kids aren't there to be student-athletes, they're there to be indentured servants for a year or two and just go through the motions in classes while a lot of people make money off of them and the work they do.

And I wholeheartedly agree with James Tyler that living in Europe for a year or two is an extremely valuable learning experience. In fact, it's my own personal belief that studying abroad for at least a semester, if not a year, should be mandatory to graduate with a bachelor's degree.

[Crapshoot]

More power to him, and another blow to the idiocy that is selective "amateurism" here.

[MrBug708]

Tyler's problem is that he wouldn't have been eligible for the 'ville anyhow

[Groundhog]

If the NBA is smart, this will lead them to reevaluate how the NBDL is currently being used.

[Abe Sargent]

In fact, it's my own personal belief that studying abroad for at least a semester, if not a year, should be mandatory to graduate with a bachelor's degree.

Yeah, because if I want a nursing degree or accounting degree, I should be forced to spend a semester in Portugal or S Korea

[Neon_Chaos]

Yeah, because if I want a nursing degree or accounting degree, I should be forced to spend a semester in Portugal or S Korea

Or live in Chinatown for a semester.

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[Karlifornia]

Yeah, because if I want a nursing degree or accounting degree, I should be forced to spend a semester in Portugal or S Korea

While I don't think it should be mandatory, it would awesome.


At first, I thought this was a bad idea, seeing how Brandon Jennings has struggled (understandably....he's playing against adults. Not other college kids aged 18-22, but fully grown adults. Not to mention he's halfway across the world), but I've changed my mind. His dad made a compelling argument by mentioning that 18 year olds can go off to war, but not play professional basketball? That doesn't make much sense.

[Icy]

It could work for him in Spain exactly for the reasons he stated. Here every pro team has also an under 18 team that plays in the under 18 league. Under 18 years old players can be promoted/demoted anytime during the season.

That way the first year he can alternate between the pro and under 18 teams to find his best fit, if playing with the pros or with the kids of his age.

That is what Ricky Rubio did. He started in the Spanish pro league at 14 years old (setting a youngest record). That year he played 14 games with the pros and 14 or so with the under 18 team. The following year he played full time with the first team, leading the pro league in steals at only 15 years old.

Then when he reached 16 years old he was already a monster compared with the players at his age as he had experience vs the pro players. That year he was named the best young European player of the year, scoring 51 points, graving 24 rebounds and 12 assists in the under 16 years old European championship final vs Rusia.

This year, when he is still 18, he is predicted to be a top 3 draft pick.

That shows how it could help a talented player to play with the pros even being that young, and to dedicate his whole time to have an incredible development. Of course things could have turned the other way, with him being burned soon and forgotten, but he could always have gone back to play in the under 18 team anytime if overmatched in the pros, something you can't do in the NBA where are either a top player or just a bench warmer.

Also in Spain he can start to earn pro money since day one and to work the 100% of his time on basketball, as he won't have any academic requirements here. If he is an strong minded kid, the foreign experience could be unvaluable for him, if he is weak... he could become homesick soon or even worse, to discover the Spanish night party and destroy his basketball career.

While i like the general idea of athletes being also students in USA, as most of them won't be able to become pros, so they will have an academic career as backup, i can see how it can slow down the 100% secure pro players development, as they won't ever use their degree.

Agree that this should also shows the NBA that they need to keep upgrading the development league idea to make it more attractive and to keep there the players instead of them leaving to Europe.

[Swaggs]

While I don't think it should be mandatory, it would awesome.


At first, I thought this was a bad idea, seeing how Brandon Jennings has struggled (understandably....he's playing against adults. Not other college kids aged 18-22, but fully grown adults. Not to mention he's halfway across the world), but I've changed my mind. His dad made a compelling argument by mentioning that 18 year olds can go off to war, but not play professional basketball? That doesn't make much sense.

I think the rule is a little bit odd, but I don't think you can quite equate it to going to war. An 18-year old can still play professional basketball, just not in the NBA. There are a lot of organizations that require you to have a degree (high school or college) before they will consider hiring you -- in the NBA, the minimal requirement is one year out of college. An pretty arbitrary rule, but it is not unprecedented and it serves as a mean to their end (ie: they didn't want every starry eyed high school kid to think that he could make the jump to the NBA and then be left scrambling).

In the long run, I think the rule is better for the health of the NBA and the college game.

[Passacaglia]

If the NBA is smart, this will lead them to reevaluate how the NBDL is currently being used.

I think it would be a PR nightmare for the NBA here if their D-league was taking kids from high schools. Although if they had a GED program to go with it, they'd have a shot..

[Young Drachma]

D-League doesn't need high school kids and the NBA doesn't want them, understandably.

I think Europe is a great way for kids who are serious about their craft to get some extra training and to get circumvent the college racket.

[Fidatelo]

I think the NCAA is the biggest scam in the world, and I am happy to see people looking for ways to circumvent it.

[bulletsponge]

I think the NCAA is the biggest scam in the world, and I am happy to see people looking for ways to circumvent it.

+1

[Noop]

That's an interesting path to take and I wonder how many more kids will just take that option instead of toiling through school. It makes sense to me that a kid could go overseas for a couple of years, get paid, and have unlimited time to practice and get better.

The NCAA likely won't go away but without top stars we may see better team play across the board. Another thing maybe those small schools who keep their players will be able to make deep runs in the tournament.

[Eaglesfan27]

I have a patient who is a very good but not spectacular high school player who had already talked about trying to go this route. I wonder how many athletes will look at this and fail to realize that it is an unrealistic option for them.

[Noop]

If they fail they still have the option of going to college which can be paid for by the amount of money they received from the euro teams. I wonder if the NCAA would allow them to play especially if a kid goes over at say 16 and spends two years over before coming home for college.

[DaddyTorgo]

If they fail they still have the option of going to college which can be paid for by the amount of money they received from the euro teams. I wonder if the NCAA would allow them to play especially if a kid goes over at say 16 and spends two years over before coming home for college.

not if they got paid at any point

[BishopMVP]

I just don't see many young American players leaving after the Brandon Jennings experiment.Isn't the jury still out on "the Brandon Jennings experiment"? If he goes top 5 or even top 10, how was it a failure? Even if it was, there were plenty of kids with no chance to be drafted declaring out of HS every year before the rules were changed.not if they got paid at any pointWell they can still go back to get the education and a degree if they care about that. (And there are some cases where you can pay back money received and play after a suspension, but those are all ad hoc and require NCAA waivers.)

[sooner333]

Brandon Jennings' options in the USA were either Prep School, Junior College, or maybe NAIA. It wasn't as much of an experiment as a way to get paid and get better at basketball for a year while he'd be ineligible to play at a D-I school anyway. I think it worked out all right because it seems that NBA scouts are all of the assumption that the level of play and training is much better than in college. With the scouting that goes on in Europe now, he's not at risk of not being seen.

[whomario]

Jennings also has reportedly also handled himself pretty well, sth people were sceptical of.

Just recently came forward donating 50K for the earthquake victims, too.

The kid (Tyler) will still get homeschooled and take the GED, so that´s not that much of an issue. From what i´ve heard his family is pretty well in terms of finances, so that likely isn´t a motivation, doubt he´ll get anything outrageus anyhow. Should definitely look outside the Euroleague, a decent mid table team that can use him as a player and later the money they´ll get when he gets drafted via a reasonable bouyout.

[Neon_Chaos]

So...

is the European option a valid one, now that Jennings has made good money that one year he played overseas, learned to play with veterans and the hardships of Euro basketball, and ended up being an overnight sensation with the Bucks?

Or was it just a fluke?
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[Young Drachma]

So...

is the European option a valid one, now that Jennings has made good money that one year he played overseas, learned to play with veterans and the hardships of Euro basketball, and ended up being an overnight sensation with the Bucks?

Or was it just a fluke?
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The NY Times story that talked about Tyler's situation highlighted the fact that Jennings was good enough to play in the pro's, but didn't have the grades to go to college and had the resume of having played against better HS talent than Tyler did. Jennings also had a better deal in Italy and a shoe deal.

Tyler has a six figure deal, but no shoe deal and if he doesn't do well over there, could slip to the bottom of the first round or worse, if he's not careful and doesn't get his act together.

I don't think it's a fluke, but I don't think it's a widespread trend either. I mean, there should be a steady drip of kids heading over there, now that the trail has been blazed, but...the overwhelming majority will stay here and let the college lifestyle do the hard work for them, because the risk of going overseas is being forgotten when there is more than one kid over there at a time.

[miami_fan]

OTL: Jeremy Tyler - ESPN Video - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4657149)

Outside the Lines just did a piece on Tyler on Sunday.

Is it an option? Sure. Will the John Walls of the world take be heading off to Europe instead of spending a year in college? I don't think so.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Not only is Europe an option for new players, it's also quickly becoming a financial option for players in the middle of the NBA roster. Players like Linus Kleiza and Josh Childress could easily make a NBA roster, but they can make a few million more overseas than they could in the NBA and have jumped at that option.

[RainMaker]

The odd thing is that I think Europe hurt Jennings draft status. He would have dominated as a Freshman in college and been the likely 2nd pick (I believe he was the top recruit in high school). Now that Jennings is playing so well, I wonder if we'll see a reverse with teams drafting kids who go to Europe for a year higher due to the success of Jennings. Remember, this is a league that has owners copy the success of others every year in the draft.

[Lathum]

The whole one year in college is such a joke anyway. IIRC kids basically have to take 6 credits the first semester and that is it. By the time they flunk out of their second semester they are already headed to the draft.

If they wanted to make the college experience meaningful do it like the NFL and have them go 2 years minimum.

[Neon_Chaos]

The odd thing is that I think Europe hurt Jennings draft status. He would have dominated as a Freshman in college and been the likely 2nd pick (I believe he was the top recruit in high school). Now that Jennings is playing so well, I wonder if we'll see a reverse with teams drafting kids who go to Europe for a year higher due to the success of Jennings. Remember, this is a league that has owners copy the success of others every year in the draft.

I agree that Europe did hurt Jenning's draft position.

I do think, however, that he learned so much more in Europe playing with vets rather than playing against other players his age.

edit:

Of course, if the NBA didn't have the stupid one-and-done rule in place, he wouldn't have needed to head to Europe in the first place.

[SnDvls]

Jennings didn't have the scores to make it into college though so he didn't really have a choice. It was either go to a junior college or Europe.

[RPI-Fan]

NY Times had a feature article on this just last weekend... Young, Talented and Unhappy Playing Basketball Overseas - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/sports/basketball/08tyler.html) - long story short, the answer is "no".

[Atocep]

The whole one year in college is such a joke anyway. IIRC kids basically have to take 6 credits the first semester and that is it. By the time they flunk out of their second semester they are already headed to the draft.

If they wanted to make the college experience meaningful do it like the NFL and have them go 2 years minimum.

Let them go pro out of high school, but if they commit to a college they're not draft eligible for 2 years.

[Lathum]

Let them go pro out of high school, but if they commit to a college they're not draft eligible for 2 years.

right, it has to be one or the other. All the one and done rule does is take scholarships from someone else who will actually take advantage of it.

[RainMaker]

I agree that Europe did hurt Jenning's draft position.

I do think, however, that he learned so much more in Europe playing with vets rather than playing against other players his age.

edit:

Of course, if the NBA didn't have the stupid one-and-done rule in place, he wouldn't have needed to head to Europe in the first place.
It might have helped him, although I don't think the competition over there is any better than some of the major conferences in college. He didn't play a ton for his team and the style of play is much different than what he's playing in the NBA.

I'm just not sold on Europe making players better for the NBA. College resembles the NBA game much more than the European leagues.

[molson]

It's weird to have both an NBDL and an age limit.

Shouldn't the existence of an NBDL warrant a lower age limit?

[Lathum]

It's weird to have both an NBDL and an age limit.

Shouldn't the existence of an NBDL warrant a lower age limit?

One would think.

I am biased because I am a much bigger college fan then NBA, but think about how awesome the college game would be if guys still went to college for 3-4 years.

[Logan]

Update:

Ex-high school star Jeremy Tyler, 18, quits Israeli team - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5008825)

JERUSALEM -- Former U.S. high school basketball star Jeremy Tyler quit Israeli team Maccabi Haifa and returned home Friday, cutting short a disappointing first pro season.

The 18-year-old Tyler arrived in Israel on a wave of publicity in August after deciding to skip his senior year at San Diego High School to gain professional experience.

However, his time in Israel was fraught with problems, and he left two months before the end of the season.

"Due to personal matters, Jeremy chose to leave the team on his own will on March 18 and return home to San Diego," Maccabi Haifa owner Jeffery Rosen said in a statement. "We wish Jeremy all the best."

In the 10 games Tyler played for Haifa, the 6-foot-11 power forward averaged only 2.1 points and 1.9 rebounds in 7.6 minutes. Tyler, who reportedly earned a $140,000 salary, found it hard to adapt to the pro game and couldn't find a place in Maccabi Haifa's starting lineup.

His frustration began to show. Last month, he walked out on the team at halftime to protest not getting more minutes. For the last three games, he sat on the bench not wearing a uniform after being left off the Haifa squad.

[MikeVic]

Mature player.

[SportsDino]

Biggest problem with these young wannabe superstars is they don't have the mental ability to focus on their game and put in the work needed to improve and earn the big money contract later in life. They see money flashing in front of their face up front and it goes straight to their head and they think they are a big shot before they ever really get their shot.

Some keep focused and do well, most fail miserably.

[molson]

I'm amazed that sending an 18-year old kid to Israel to play pro basketball with grown men didn't work out.

[whomario]

Biggest problem with these young wannabe superstars is they don't have the mental ability to focus on their game and put in the work needed to improve and earn the big money contract later in life.

Which is all fine as long as you are playing next to other kids, but playing with guys in their prime that play basketball for a living ...

This really looks like the kid had no idea what he was getting into and just assumed he´d be handed playing time, that also was the gist of quite a few comments by the fellow americans on the team in a couple articles (davon jefferson was the 15th ranked HS player of his class btw, ben strong was a late bloomer and dominated DIII college with 26/11, jason rich a 4 year starter for Florida State who averaged 15 his senior year, todd golden started 3 years for Saint Mary´s).

That´s what was so impressive with Jennings, who just kept his head down and kept working and took advantage of the opportunity to learn new things and improve on his weaknesses rather than concentrating on his strength like he would have in College.

@ rainmaker : Which IMO means, had Jennings gone to College and hit that shooting slump like he did, he would have been much worse prepared and propably lost focus. He plays very heady, picks his spots and makes great decicions, all staples of the european game.

Going to Europe imo is a great way of rounding out your game, playing veterans instead of other kids is invaluable experience.

Plus how are most college teams similar to the NBA style of play ? There´s maybe half a dozen teams every year that play a NBA style offense and that doesn´t nescessarily mean they´ll play an NBA style defense or face those.

And i´ll say it again :

You have an age range from 18 to 35, the (say) 20th to 60th best college senior of every year from the mid 90s to now are battling for spots with the top level talent of Europe (again, age group 18-35).
And they don´t get signed by power houses right away, basically everyone has to climb up the ladder.

The 20th best european team would easily beat the 20th best College team 8 or 9 out of 10 times, the same fot both 50th best and both 100th best.
The depth is much stronger.

It´s the same with the jump from High School to College. Even the best HS team propably couldn´t come close to haging with even decent mid majors. Look at the rosters of the best HS teams and where they wind up in College.

[stevew]

Who is gonna bite?

[bulletsponge]

Bobcats took him

[Lathum]

cool bump

[bulletsponge]

and traded to golden state

[RainMaker]

Interested to see how this pans out for him now. He doesn't look like he has improved any skills since his Junion year of HS which is not a good thing. But he's still got an NBA body and probably worth the risk that late.

[GoldenEagle]

I just don't see many young American players leaving after the Brandon Jennings experiment.

Oops.