Alright boyz here we go again! (TPF download/first impressions thread)

[HornedFrog Purple]

Made you look!

I don't have it yet, but I got the jumpstart on you all. hehehehhehehehe

Start your engines!

[GrantDawg]

Errrrrrrr....

[Coop]

urge to kill rising

[sabotai]

Feelin' Fine

[HornedFrog Purple]

Gotta go to work now, this thread better reach epic proportions when I get back.

Have fun!

[hoosierdude]

Heard Arlie should be posting something pretty soon.

[Ragone]

Well.. i almost have the complete file.. am on irc on gamersnet server in tpf room.. i could dcc it to a few people if you all like :)

[Coop]

how big is it

[Ragone]

54.3 megs

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Ragone
Well.. i almost have the complete file.. am on irc on gamersnet server in tpf room.. i could dcc it to a few people if you all like :)

You have AIM?

[MizzouRah]

Maybe Arlie will give a discount for those of us (FOFC'ers) who are making sure the game gets off the ground tonight?

j/k, but it's amazing how fast news travels....



Todd

[Ragone]

anyone else wanting the file? i'm kinda limited on # of transfers but doing what i can

[The_herd]

Im waiting for it.

[Tasan]

I'll take it if nobody else is dl'ing now....I have a fast connection for download

[Coffee Warlord]

Biding my time till someone pops a link, basically.

[Sidhe]

I'd like the file.. but I don't know what you guys are talking about.. :(

Never one of the cool kids.

[DeToxRox]

anyone care to send it over AIM, or nope?

[Richards]

First impressions:

Damn, it's gonna take me a long time to get thru this game. I'm a slow player, taking a long time even for one season, there's a lot of detail here, and it certainly looks beautiful.

Some nice attention to detail, like detailed city information including a little rustic picture.

Controlling the Green Bay Ice Giants.

Interface is nice. One thing I noticed is the scroll wheel didn't work in at least some of the listings i.e. college draft pool.

Configuration options are numerous.

But really, I won't be getting to what's REALLY important for some time, something the FOF games do and do well, and thats how does the game simulate football. I expect it will be some time before we know this.

Bottom line, that will make or break the game for me. If the engine itself sux, all the nice interface and pretty graphics don't mean anything. However, I have nothing to indicate either way yet, after only playing 1/2 hour or so.

[Ragone]

i'll send over aim.. just pm me for aim name reply

[Sidhe]

I did not know you could send files over AIM.. interesting.

Too bad I ripped it out of my computer roots and all.

And I know *what* file you are talking about, but was confused about the method of transfer.

[Coop]

just got done d/l. :) going to go play

[maximus]

Originally posted by Coop
just got done d/l. :) going to go play

Me too. :)

[Urlacher]

I've got it... been on the beta testing crew since the start... let me just say it's... NDA

[The_herd]

Just launched the game, getting started now.

[Urlacher]

http://66.193.175.87/redist/TPF_setup.exe
http://www.400softwarestudios.com/redist/TPF_setup.exe


Link and mirror

[Lazy Eye]

NDA?

[GrantDawg]

Weeeeeee!!!!

[MizzouRah]

Originally posted by Urlacher
http://66.193.175.87/redist/TPF_setup.exe
http://www.400softwarestudios.com/redist/TPF_setup.exe


Link and mirror

Now you're talkin'!


Todd

[sachmo71]

Has anyone tried to play the game on a system with less than the minimum hardware reqs? (PII 500)

[sabotai]

Actually, they're both the same link. :)

But anyway...hopefully my mirror willbe up soon. Damn Dreamweaver crashed on me the first time I tried to upload it.

[Coffee Warlord]

First Impression: They get points for the game actually RUNNING without crashing. Now to play!

[yabanci]

I love the way you can start in the offseason, before FA and the draft.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by yabanci
I love the way you can start in the offseason, before FA and the draft.

My favorite part.

[Ragone]

i have a aim chat room going.. just aim me kctall76 for invite heh :)

[Richards]

:( First crash. Saved my game, restarted with a new league, crashed while assigning players.

[VPI97]

Crash - Trying to cut a third ILB to free up space to sign draft picks.

I really dislike how cumbersome the interface is.

[Sloan]

Originally posted by Richards
:( First crash. Saved my game, restarted with a new league, crashed while assigning players.

Crashed on me at assigning players too. It went through the second time.

[Arles]

I would make sure you exit the game before starting a new career until we get a chance to look at this

[VPI97]

Originally posted by Arles
I would make sure you exit the game before starting a new career until we get a chance to look at this What's the protocol for reporting bugs?

[Ragone]

did you all restart like the installtion told you to? :P

[spleen1015]

Probably the Tech Support forum over at .400

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by VPI97

I really dislike how cumbersome the interface is.

The interface is overwhelmiing at first. Give it time. It'll be like the back of your hand, and is much easier to learn than most.

[VPI97]

Originally posted by spleen1015
Probably the Tech Support forum over at .400 You mean I have to go over to THAT board? :confused:

[Comey]

Here's a link:

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/invboard/upload/index.php?act=ST&f=92&t=45664

This addresses the issue of restarting with a new league while in the game.

Hope this helps!

-John

[maximus]

Originally posted by VPI97
I really dislike how cumbersome the interface is.

This is ironic to say the least.

[Sloan]

Stats after the first season look pretty good. Tackles by linebackers seem to be a little high though. Many players with 140+ tackles. The leader ended up with 211 :eek:

[VPI97]

Originally posted by maximus
This is ironic to say the least. ???

[tucker342]

211?!?!?!?!?! GOOD GOD! That's a bit high....

[The_herd]

When negotiating contracts it would be nice to have a window that confirms your offer. Instead the contract is just accepted, that could kill you if you have a typo in your offer.

[Ben E Lou]

You might want to check out the manual for how tackles are calculated in TPF.

[chrisj]

I'm finding free agency awkward... I've had a couple of free agents who were favoring my offer just disappear. It'd be nice to at least get an e-mail letting me know they've signed with a different team (like OOTP).

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by chrisj
I'm finding free agency awkward... I've had a couple of free agents who were favoring my offer just disappear. It'd be nice to at least get an e-mail letting me know they've signed with a different team (like OOTP). Hmm...that's odd. You should get an e-mail when they sign with someone else.

[The_herd]

By the way, if you haven't checked out Contract Negotiations, I strongly suggest it. You can do just about anything you can imagine with it.

[yabanci]

I kind of like the detailed owner profiles. Instead of Al Davis, I have a Japanese electronics tycoon who doesn't care about wining. The Raiders' new motto: Just profit baby.

[Coffee Warlord]

Just went through the first week of re-signing my boys, noticed something I find bizarre.

I'm wondering about 30+ year old stud linemen (1 offensive, 1 defensive) wanting 7 year deals, and it being damn near impossible to get them to agree to anything else.

[The_herd]

Just got a RTE when going to depth charts. Gonna try to recreate it.

[ISiddiqui]

Hmmm... is it a bad thing when the program crashes on installation? :D

[The_herd]

Ok, traded a starter, then went to "view depth chart" and got:
RTE 91
Object Variable or With Block Variable not set

Anyone want to try this as well?

[VPI97]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Hmm...that's odd. You should get an e-mail when they sign with someone else. I don't get any notice either...

[ScottVib]

Please post all bugs in our Tech Support Forum... Arlie's going through and killing them as they are reported and he finds them.

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/invboard/upload/index.php?showforum=92

[Tasan]

Shouldn't the beta......aw screw it, i'm not going to be the one who says it......

[DookieMowf]

So whats the feedback so far...on the surface does it seem to be better then fof2004? I just bought fof2004 tuesday and im hoping I didnt miss out and not waiting for this game.

[The_herd]

Work around for the RTE 91 is simply "Edit Depth Chart" before going to view when you have a starter missing.

[VPI97]

Originally posted by VPI97
I don't get any notice either... My bad...the three FA's I bid on haven't signed with anyone yet. All of the non-rookie FA's just disappeared for a week. :confused:

[The_herd]

Originally posted by DookieMowf
So whats the feedback so far...on the surface does it seem to be better then fof2004? I just bought fof2004 tuesday and im hoping I didnt miss out and not waiting for this game.

Too early to say. The interface is a bit overwhelming at 1st. I wouldn't say cumbersome by any means, but the game has a lot of promise.

[yabanci]

Originally posted by DookieMowf
So whats the feedback so far...on the surface does it seem to be better then fof2004? I just bought fof2004 tuesday and im hoping I didnt miss out and not waiting for this game.

too early to tell IMO. You can't go wrong with FOF2004 though.

[Logan]

RTE for me as well.

I was trying to sign an OLB who I had recently cut. He had no values for year 1, 2, etc... When I put in an offer, and clicked submit, I received the error message. Had to follow with a Ctrl-Alt-Del.

Heading over to 400 to post this now.

[INDalltheway]

I just can't wait until I become familiar with the interface. I am sure it will be great, but at first it is very confusing...

[Coffee Warlord]

Hmm. Maybe I'm just insane, but I swear I issued a minimum tender offer to this guy. Instead, he just agreed to a multiyear deal with my team.

[ScottVib]

Originally posted by Coffee Warlord
Hmm. Maybe I'm just insane, but I swear I issued a minimum tender offer to this guy. Instead, he just agreed to a multiyear deal with my team.

You can sign your own guys to bigger deals rather than just doing the RFA tender route.

[yabanci]

I like the depth charts. I just wish they added the first name too.

[VPI97]

Is there an easy way to set your active roster? The drag and drop screen is okay, but there's no apparent way to sort the lists...I have to keep going back and forth to the normal roster screen to remember who I want to move to the inactive list.

[Tasan]

Could we get some screenshots in here or something?

[The_herd]

Trade AI for draft picks is spotty. I can trade my star WR for Tennessee's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th round draft picks.

He is one of the better WR's in the league, but he's an 11 year vet with 2 years and $11 mil left on his contract.

[Arles]

another thing guys, when you sim a full season, check a folder under your save game called "Stats", it will include all the league-level stats output file for that season to let you know what the baselines for each stat were.

[INDalltheway]

Originally posted by Tasan
Could we get some screenshots in here or something?
What do you want to see? Last week Joe posted tons of screenshots. I may be able to help you out if you want to see something Joe hasn't already posted.

[Tasan]

I dunno. I guess I asked about one thing I haven't seen yet. Show me a screen like the offense or defense breakdowns that shows special teams ability ratings, or at least break down what kind of ratings there are for it.

[VPI97]

Another crash - made it through pre-season games...adjusted my roster to 46 active/7 inactive/2 practice squad...simmed week 1 and the game crashed.

The game hadn't been saved since midway through the college draft, so I would have to go back to there if I had any inclination to open this mess again.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Tasan
Shouldn't the beta......aw screw it, i'm not going to be the one who says it......

^

Anyone?

[Abe Sargent]

My first impressions:

Just 11 agents for the league?

Each owner appears different in that they have a type, but although owners are rated in a variety of areas, it seems like each owner listed as a type, say Man in the Box, has the exact same subset of desires at equal rating. Therefore, there are only like 4 or 5 different owner types, when, at first, it appears that every owner is unique.


-Anxiety

[VPI97]

Originally posted by Tasan
^

Anyone? I won't say it either, but the fact that I have had two separate instances when the game has crashed to the desktop while performing routine things just amazes me.

[yabanci]

one thing that's annoying is you have to retype all the nicknames everytime you start a new season.

[Coffee Warlord]

Alright, since I have the evil thing called work tomorrow, I'll leave with a few parting *very* early impressions of the offseason/draft. (Yeah, that's as far as I got in about an hour and a half of playing.)

There's a whole truckload of depth here. And by a lot, I mean...a lot. Very impressive, albiet a tad overwhelming at first. The actual draft is possibly one of the coolest things I've seen. Some of the 'strengths/weaknesses' are somewhat questionable (I noticed several players that were projected as late round picks being summarized as a 2nd-3rd rounder), but it's still pretty spiffy.

Re-signing your own free agents is a snap. There's a seperate screen dedicated to doing so, which is pretty handy. The tender offers to RFA's is also a very cool touch. Contract offers to FA's...christ. I'm surprised there's not an option in there for a new car too. LOT of variety there. Again, it's still early to tell, but I noted earlier that the demands of older players seems off. Something about 10 year vets wanting 7 year deals just is not right.

The major problem I see with Free Agency is that I find it difficult to have any clue how my offers are holding up. You have to navigate to a seperate screen to check your offers (like, entirely away from the free agent section), and it's sorta clunky how it's listed. With all the other interactivity and immersion in the game (even thus far), this doesn't feel right. That, and maybe I just suck, but I offered contracts to 6 players, and over the first 7 weeks (week 8 is draft), not one of them had signed. Fuckers.

Interface is up in the air thus far. I always kinda liked FOF's organized list 'o shit, and this to me seems like there's a lot of stuff needlessly spread out over too many different screens. We'll see if it grows on me. It does sorta feel like I have to flip back and forth to a LOT of different subsections to get the information I want.

It's interesting. It passed my first test of 'dear god I hate this', which means it's already better than MOO3. :)

More tomorrow night when I have time to actually get a real season going. I imagine there will be about 8000 posts on the subject by that time, but hey. :)

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by DookieMowf
So whats the feedback so far...on the surface does it seem to be better then fof2004? I just bought fof2004 tuesday and im hoping I didnt miss out and not waiting for this game.

Hard to judge. So many bugs get discovered right when a game is released, you should probably wait until after the first patch or so to get a true opinion.

I'll let you know as soon as I get the NFL player MOD.

:D

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by yabanci
one thing that's annoying is you have to retype all the nicknames everytime you start a new season.

It would be nice if there was a way to edit the default league setup, kind of like ootp.

[INDalltheway]

http://fof2004.freeservers.com/photo.html

Here is a picture of the special teams page. All of the abbreviations are pretty self-explanitory except for the last one. "Nrv" is nerves, so it is pretty much a clutch rating.

[Tasan]

Linky no werky.

EDIT Remove the period from the html link.

[Arles]

Originally posted by yabanci
one thing that's annoying is you have to retype all the nicknames everytime you start a new season.

Just go into the pseason.dat file (can do it with MS Access) and change the teamnames and nicknames to whatever you want them to be. You can also change the stadium name and capacity there as well. Then, for each later career, those will be the defaults.

[Tasan]

Dola

Thanks for the pic! Exactly what I was looking for. Just glancing at it, it looks like returners and long snappers are pretty easy to find, either that or you are just loaded with them...

[INDalltheway]

This was just what my team was dealt. That is about all though this team is good at though... :D

I just looked at my league some and there are lots of good longsnappers. There aren't as many good returners though. I just have a lot of solid ones compared to most teams.

[INDalltheway]

The boxscores are amazing... If they had all of the information that FOF has in this format, that would be amazing.... I will show you a picture of that and individual player record page if anyone wants to see it.

[The_herd]

The page with each players personal bests, along with the year and team it was against, is a nice touch.

[maximus]

Originally posted by Anxiety
My first impressions:

Just 11 agents for the league?

Each owner appears different in that they have a type, but although owners are rated in a variety of areas, it seems like each owner listed as a type, say Man in the Box, has the exact same subset of desires at equal rating. Therefore, there are only like 4 or 5 different owner types, when, at first, it appears that every owner is unique.


-Anxiety

I agree. I wish there were more agents. I made a agent facepack that had at least 100 faces. I was hoping to use them all. :)

[Tasan]

Originally posted by INDalltheway
The boxscores are amazing... If they had all of the information that FOF has in this format, that would be amazing.... I will show you a picture of that and individual player record page if anyone wants to see it.

I'll take one please. In the future, heck, just go ahead and post up something you find interesting. I'm sure at least 1 other person will find it cool too.

[Franklinnoble]

Bah. Too many bugs reported already. I'm staying away from it.

I'll re-evaluate my decision in a month or two when a few patches come out. In the meantime, FOF is good enough for me.

[INDalltheway]

http://fof2004.freeservers.com/photo.html

I uploaded a couple more pictures...

[yabanci]

Some people might be interested in this: I thought I'd try the "presim" option to get some history. I started in 1985 and used "sim multiple seasons" to do 14 years. It took exactly 1 hour and 4 minutes. Not bad. Haven't checked the results yet. AMD Athlon XP o/c'd to 3.0 ghz with 512k ram.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by yabanci
... with 512k ram.

Wow we timewarped back to the late 80s for the ram there ;- )


Anyway, disturbing news from the .400 board is that there are no fake kicks of any kind in the play selection. That just isn't right.

[FargoFreez aka fof playa]

Originally posted by Tasan
Anyway, disturbing news from the .400 board is that there are no fake kicks of any kind in the play selection. That just isn't right.

That's just plain retarded. It's like making a baseball sim and electing not to give the user the option to put on a suicide squeeze. I know this will make some people around here just cringe.

[sabotai]

What makes me cringe is the pretty slim selection of plays in general. If you're going to offer up playbook style gameplans (as opposed to the tendency style gameplan of FOF), you really have to offer a lot of plays (or the ability to create our own). This is really a small selection.

But, so far that's my only real complaint. I haven't played much of it yet (just play called one game and went through the offseason), but this is definatly not last year's TDCB. I think .400 has did a good job (as far as what the standard is) with this release and they can finally leave the reputation that TDCB gave them behind (at least imo).

Now, they just need to fix the bugs that exist and program a ton of plays into it and we'll be set. :)

[Ragone]

Whats up with only one week of coach contract offering?

:)

[lynchjm24]

Welcome to the RTE Olympics.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by yabanci
Some people might be interested in this: I thought I'd try the "presim" option to get some history. I started in 1985 and used "sim multiple seasons" to do 14 years. It took exactly 1 hour and 4 minutes. Not bad. Haven't checked the results yet. AMD Athlon XP o/c'd to 3.0 ghz with 512k ram. There's an easy way to check sim speed without bothering to time it yourself. Go into your \saves\[LeagueName]\Stats folder. It outputs stats at the end of each regular season, so just look at the timestamp. On my machine (P4,2.4GHz,512Meg), it is outputting season stats at 9-to-11 minute intervals. So, at an average of 10 minutes per season, a 30-year history could be generated in about 5 hours on my machine. Or (my recommendation for those who want to start with history) you could start it simming before leaving for work, and come home to 50+ years of league history.

[yabanci]

I decided to start out with a fantasy draft. I liked the way it was done. Had fun drafting initial start up team. Selected players at every position and a few backups at key positions and I was ready to go. Just had to sim to end of draft and let the scouts fill up the roster. Click............"Run-time error '91' Object variable or With block variable not set" Doh!!! shame on me.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by yabanci
I decided to start out with a fantasy draft. I liked the way it was done. Had fun drafting initial start up team. Selected players at every position and a few backups at key positions and I was ready to go. Just had to sim to end of draft and let the scouts fill up the roster. Click............"Run-time error '91' Object variable or With block variable not set" Doh!!! shame on me. Ouch. :(

[yabanci]

Originally posted by SkyDog
There's an easy way to check sim speed without bothering to time it yourself. Go into your \saves\[LeagueName]\Stats folder. It outputs stats at the end of each regular season, so just look at the timestamp. On my machine (P4,2.4GHz,512Meg), it is outputting season stats at 9-to-11 minute intervals. So, at an average of 10 minutes per season, a 30-year history could be generated in about 5 hours on my machine. Or (my recommendation for those who want to start with history) you could start it simming before leaving for work, and come home to 50+ years of league history.

Okay, I checked and I was averaging 4-5 minutes. I later started up a career on my notebook (PIII 800mhz 256mb) and got 14-15 minutes for a couple of seasons of history, and after that it played very nicely on the slow computer. I was pleasantly surprised.

[Angie]

Anxiety - Wanted to address your question about the owners and agents. For the agents, we used 11 because we wanted you to be able to get to know agents and their tendencies - their reputations - and didn't want to include so many that it would be overwhelming.

As for the owners, they do have a broad category, ie "Man In the Box", "The Miser", etc, but there is also a series of underlying variables that uniquely define each owner - items such as the importance of making a profit vs the importance of winning, etc. This makes each of them very different, though they may share a general category.

[sachmo71]

Originally posted by sachmo71
Has anyone tried to play the game on a system with less than the minimum hardware reqs? (PII 500)

Hoping more people see this...

[Richards]

Here are my second impressions. Played about 4 hours last night and this morning. I am one of the VERY SLOW players, so I'm not even thru to the beginning of the season.

Let me preface, I like the game overall, and it has a lot of potential.

The Mel Kiper style draft coverage is fun, and the draft in itself is a fun experience. The presentation of the game is very nice. The players have enought information and character to feel "real." The game is very immersive, and again, lots of potential.

Now, that being said there is starting to be a growing list of annoyances that give me the impression the game, or at least the final release is very rushed or not tested enough, or both.

To name a few:

*navigating player lists/draft pools/rosters is very cumbersome. The scroll wheel doesn't work, which I can live with, HOWEVER, you can't hold down the mouse button on the arrow on the scroll bar to scroll the list up and down. The only choice is to click the arrows one player at a time, or use the coarse adjustment of moving the slider box up and down.

more on the player lists:
*They don't "remember" their last configuration, i.e. if you sort by position, go to a player card, and go back, it is back to the default sort.

*One way sorting only, at least on most menus. When you click to sort, you get descending sort only. Click again, principle of least surprise says you get ascending sort, but nothing.

*my tpf email inbox must have an aggresive spam filter :), because 90% of the time, free-agents I have made offers to appear on the transaction list, but no emails whatsoever. I get the general impression thrughout the game of being "in the dark."

*Same thing with hiring coaches, only one week to hire coaches. I made two offers, one for a def, one for off. Week goes by. The off guy emails me, accepting. Def guy dissapears to another team. No email. No chance to hire someone else. AND, there's like a max slider value to offer the coach a salary, or like $700,000, so slid all the way up, he still did not sign. Hmm, coach lottery anyone??


*And this one is a potential "show-stopper" for me, as I quit playing after running into this one. Free agency signing period: To free up cap room, I let some of my vets go play somewhere else. After the draft, I decided to hire a bunch of no-hopers to fill my slim roster spots. Fine, plenty of talent around. starting the first week of rookie free agent signing (wk 12?) I offer about 10-12 guys contracts. Time goes by. Almost all of them have only ONE offer, from me. One guy signs during week 16 or something. Free agency period ends. No signings. No emails. FINE, I'll sign them during training camp. WELL TOO BAD RICHARDS, all the undrafted free agents that had offers on the table a week ago have decided to go back to washing cars or packing meat, because they are nowhere to be found. Maybe some of them signed on other teams, I wouldn't know, I didn't get an email. EVEN WORSE, the free agent market now consists 99%-ly of the vet FA's that didn't sign, and the positional distribution is rediculous, plenty of QB's and WR's, but some positions, like OT have 3 players, many have NO players. [I posted this problem at 400 forum also]

*No fake field goals/punts (what?? it's a football sim right?)

*maybe you can do it, but I don't see any easy way to change a players position, and I'm not talking about editing the player data, I mean in the game, like in FOF.


Oh well, I guess I'll go into training camp with 54 players. Better yet, I'm going back to FOF for the time being.

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret buying the game YET, and I belive they'll fix it. Some people have reported crashes, and I got one related to a known issue, but periodic crashes are OK with me, it's these other annoyances that make the game appear unfinished and rushed.

These issues aren't subtle, they came out and beat me accross the face after less than 4 hours of play.

I may play on in my Free Agentless world a little bit, but I'll probably just wait for the patch(es).

Maybe Jim just spoiled me.

Crashes, and game balance issues are acceptable to me for a first generation game like this, but this other stuff, I don't know.


Richards

P.S. I'm not trying to slam the beta testers like Skydog or the development team. They have a nice creation here, and I make no assumptions about their development or testing process, as I'm sure they worked very hard...I'm just stating my viewpoint at this early point.

[Richards]

Originally posted by sachmo71
Hoping more people see this...

I think I saw something at .400 forum that someone played with 64mb ram on a modest processor and had no problems.

[spleen1015]

Take a look at this for screens.

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/tpf/Help/default.htm

[sachmo71]

Thanks Richards, I saw that post, and have put the call out to him to see if he'll share his processor specs with me.

On an unrelated note, I think most of the bugs I've seen posted are pretty easy to fix. Having said that, I'll be watching from the sidelines for a while.

[Richards]

Originally posted by sachmo71
[ I think most of the bugs I've seen posted are pretty easy to fix. Having said that, I'll be watching from the sidelines for a while. [/B]

I agree. It will be a fun game when they patch it. It's mostly small tweaks needed.

I think they should have tested it longer, but I'm probably the minority if you count some of the fanboys over at .400 screaming about their Xmas being runied without the game, I guess I understand the pressure.

[VPI97]

Well, I'm strongly leaning towards returning it. I played about 3-4 hours and was never able to play Week 1. Two crashes + hard to use interface + memory hog + disappearing FA's + vague messages ("Something is wrong with the CB's on your roster") + zero LB's in the FA pool = I'm not willing to spend much more time on this when there are actual playable games on my PC that I could be enjoying.

[ScottVib]

For those "disappearing" players did they not show up in the Player Database if you did a search for them? The AI is VERY aggressive signing FA's at the start of camp and its entirely possible that the guys you were pursuing got signed by the AI... this happened to me a bit during testing, but sure enough they had all gotten signed by the AI. Which meant I had to wait until the cuts during camp to get a crack at them.

[MizzouRah]

I'll be watching from the sidelines for a while.


I'm with you!



Todd

[VPI97]

Originally posted by ScottVib
For those "disappearing" players did they not show up in the Player Database if you did a search for them? The AI is VERY aggressive signing FA's at the start of camp and its entirely possible that the guys you were pursuing got signed by the AI... this happened to me a bit during testing, but sure enough they had all gotten signed by the AI. Which meant I had to wait until the cuts during camp to get a crack at them. In my case, the disappearing FA's were there one week, not in the FA pool the next, and back in the pool the third week. In all three weeks they appeared on the PDA as having offers from me, but they didn't appear in the FA list.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally posted by Angie
Anxiety - Wanted to address your question about the owners and agents. For the agents, we used 11 because we wanted you to be able to get to know agents and their tendencies - their reputations - and didn't want to include so many that it would be overwhelming.

As for the owners, they do have a broad category, ie "Man In the Box", "The Miser", etc, but there is also a series of underlying variables that uniquely define each owner - items such as the importance of making a profit vs the importance of winning, etc. This makes each of them very different, though they may share a general category.


For me it is not. Every owner with a broad category has the exact same set of ratings - no variation at all. For example, (And I am making these ratings up as I am at the office, not at home), every owner ratred the Realist has average spending, very high patience, etc. Every one a carbon cutter of the other.

-Anxiety

[Angie]

Ah, I see. The specific ratings are not shown.

I know from having worked on the owners that 'Very Important' or 'Average' etc. actually represents a range, so even though the ratings appear to be the same for like 'The Miser,' there actually different ranges for each variable, on a 1-100 scale. Does that make sense? I'm having a hard time explaining this I think. :)

[sabotai]

To help Angie out... :)

What she's saying is that "Average" (and I'm makign these numbers up) could mean a range from 40-60. One owner rated average might have 41 while another would have 57.

[jshipman2]

I can't even get into the game. I keep getting this error message: Run-time error: '429' - ActiveX component can't create object.

[FBPro]

Do you have Direct X 9 or higher installed?

[jshipman2]

Yes, 9.0b

[Angie]

Thanks Sabotai!

[Richards]

Originally posted by ScottVib
For those "disappearing" players did they not show up in the Player Database if you did a search for them? The AI is VERY aggressive signing FA's at the start of camp and its entirely possible that the guys you were pursuing got signed by the AI... this happened to me a bit during testing, but sure enough they had all gotten signed by the AI. Which meant I had to wait until the cuts during camp to get a crack at them.

Yes, this is what I thought at first, that they went somewhere else, however unlikely, as they were complete scrubs.

I searched and they were not on any teams (I stopped searching after 3). This is not the issue, really, as any free agent rookie would do. They all dissapeared.

There are NO rookie free agents in the FA pool.

They ARE in the player database, however, accessed under the tools menu, listed under incoming draftees.

I cannot get them in the FA menu by narrowing my search parameters or fudging this way.

The problem seems to be two-fold.

A. Rookie free agents bidded on after the draft, with one offer, go eight weeks and don't sign.

B. In my game, the first week of "season" i.e. Offseason pulldown is greyed-out for the first time, the FA pool has 0 players of 0 years experience.

Maybe I'll sim ahead to see if they come back. However, this doesn't help me fill out my roster for this weeks preseason game.

The "macro" problem here is that, starting the week after the draft, I was not able to sign a bunch of rookie free agents to fill out my roster, and now I am stuck short as positions in the preseason.

[Deattribution]

Originally posted by jshipman2
I can't even get into the game. I keep getting this error message: Run-time error: '429' - ActiveX component can't create object.

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/invboard/upload/index.php?showtopic=45677

same problem you have, some suggestions from Arlie, doesn't look like it's fixable at the moment though.

[Deattribution]

From my understanding there is no substitutions during the game as it's being played?


Have I just mis-understood this or is this correct?


If this is the case though, wouldn't my starters get all the playing time unless they get injured?

[Sun Tzu]

After reading through all of the posts regarding TPF I have decided to wait until a patch is released to buy it. It certainly *seems* like there are several bugs that could interefere with the normal season routine. It sounds like a great game, and I am looking forward to getting it after the first patch, but definetely not before.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Deattribution
From my understanding there is no substitutions during the game as it's being played?


Have I just mis-understood this or is this correct?


If this is the case though, wouldn't my starters get all the playing time unless they get injured? No user substitutions. They auto-sub when they are tired.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by Sun Tzu
After reading through all of the posts regarding TPF I have decided to wait until a patch is released to buy it. It certainly *seems* like there are several bugs that could interefere with the normal season routine. It sounds like a great game, and I am looking forward to getting it after the first patch, but definetely not before.

Yeah, who wants to pay $35 to be a beta tester. ;)

In all fairness, any new game is going to have its share of bugs and shortcomings upon release - I'm really not trying to cap on .400 here - I just have enough on my plate right now so that it's not hard for me to hold on to the money until the product is a little more polished.

[Deattribution]

Originally posted by SkyDog
No user substitutions. They auto-sub when they are tired.

Ah okay, thanks.


A little odd but I don't typically play the games in sports sims so shouldn't affect me.


I'm on the same boat as Sun Tzu, waiting for a patch - possibly two before I purchase.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Deattribution
A little odd but I don't typically play the games in sports sims so shouldn't affect me. Same here. I'm sure some will complain about this (and I wouldn't be shocked if it is added in a future patch), but it definitely won't make a difference to me. ;)

[ScottVib]

Originally posted by Deattribution
http://www.400softwarestudios.com/invboard/upload/index.php?showtopic=45677

same problem you have, some suggestions from Arlie, doesn't look like it's fixable at the moment though.

It is a system specific issue. The first stuff to check is the MDAC and Jet settings as at least with TDCB those were the source of the error.

[Sloan]

How do I find out what the minimum salary for a particular year is? I can't offer a contract to a FA because the game says I'm not offering the minimum, even if I use the amounts that are in the boxes by default.

[ScottVib]

Arlie posted it in the forums...

Minimum salaries:
0 EXP - 225,000
1 EXP - 300,000
2 EXP - 375, 000
3 EXP - 450, 000
4-6 EXP - 525,000
7-10 EXP - 650,000
10+ EXP - 750,000

[Sloan]

thanks for the info.

Shouldn't it default to something that is legal?

[ScottVib]

Originally posted by Richards
I searched and they were not on any teams (I stopped searching after 3). This is not the issue, really, as any free agent rookie would do. They all dissapeared.

There are NO rookie free agents in the FA pool.

They ARE in the player database, however, accessed under the tools menu, listed under incoming draftees.


I'm a little unclear, when you searched did you use the Player Database under the GM Office? (Also accessible via Ctrl+B) Did they show up here?

[Arles]

Originally posted by VPI97
In my case, the disappearing FA's were there one week, not in the FA pool the next, and back in the pool the third week. In all three weeks they appeared on the PDA as having offers from me, but they didn't appear in the FA list.

OK, a couple things. The way that game works is that you sign UFAs from week 5 to week 9. Then, at week 10, you go to the draft (no FA signing). After the draft, you got to week 11 where you have up to 30 bids to make on undrafted FAs. Their top concern is playing time, with their next concern being signing bonus (max of 30K for any bid). There is also no regular FA signing in this week.

Then, in week 12, the normal FAs will reappear for the rest of the FA process. Most guys will not sign with one offer until week 16 or so. I will look at changing this but didn't want the user to be able to swoop in and sign a nice value FA before the AI teams made their way to him (they go for the top players first).

If you guys do hit any issues, post them on the tech support board and I will fixed them ASAP. If possible try to send me a save game if it can be reproduced there.

Finally, to the fake FG and fake punts, I stated in a chat two months ago they wouldn't be in the release. When doing a first version game, you don't want to take on too much or you will never get completed. And, given their rare occurances in football, I didn't think it was worth the time to punt in fakes off the bat.

Thanks,

Arlie

[Schmidty]

I really want to buy this game, so I have one question:

Is anyone out there playing it without any problems right now?

[Sloan]

Originally posted by Schmidty
I really want to buy this game, so I have one question:

Is anyone out there playing it without any problems right now?

I can get the game to crash by scrolling really fast in the career leaders screen, but other than that, everything has been fine for me.

I think this game is going to be fun, but I'm having a really hard time getting used to the interface and getting the info that I need.

[sabotai]

The interface is really starting ti kill me. It takes much longer than it should to do different things.

Like managing the roster for active/inactive rosters. This takes way too long. First I go to the Roster to see how many players I have at each position. (I would do this in the Active/Inactive Management screen, but you can't sort by position on that screen). I see I have 5 OLBs. I want to make one inactive. So I look through the 5 and I find the no-talent roster filler I want to through on the inactive list.

In FOF, you just click a button on the player screen and you're off to the next guy to put on the inactive roster. But here, you have to then go into the Active/Inactive screen, refind the player you want to put on the Inactive Roster and then drag him over.

Then you go back to the roster screen and realize you forgot to click the save button, so now you have to go back into the Active/Inactive management screen, find the guy again and drag him over again.

Two things would make this SO MUCH easier.

1) Have the players sorted by position, not number. Does anyone really look at their roster with is sorted by number? Sorting by position si the first thing I do when I load up any roster screen.

2) Have changes saved by default. It's an unneeded extra click and if you forget to do it, it becomes an annoyance. I see that you wanted to be able to offer a "reset" to the previous config, but I think in this case, it becomes more of an annoyance than anything else.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Schmidty
I really want to buy this game, so I have one question:

Is anyone out there playing it without any problems right now?

The only problem I've run into was the RTE 91 I posted earlier, but there is a simple work around for that. Other than that, no problems here.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by sabotai


Two things would make this SO MUCH easier.

1) Have the players sorted by position, not number. Does anyone really look at their roster with is sorted by number? Sorting by position si the first thing I do when I load up any roster screen.

2) Have changes saved by default. It's an unneeded extra click and if you forget to do it, it becomes an annoyance. I see that you wanted to be able to offer a "reset" to the previous config, but I think in this case, it becomes more of an annoyance than anything else.

These are the only major problems I have with the interface. The first one is a poor design choice, the 2nd is probably for the reason you stated above. However, both of these suggestions should be considered by Arlie, because they would both be improvements on the interface.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by Arles
OK, a couple things. The way that game works is that you sign UFAs from week 5 to week 9. Then, at week 10, you go to the draft (no FA signing). After the draft, you got to week 11 where you have up to 30 bids to make on undrafted FAs. Their top concern is playing time, with their next concern being signing bonus (max of 30K for any bid). There is also no regular FA signing in this week.

Then, in week 12, the normal FAs will reappear for the rest of the FA process. Most guys will not sign with one offer until week 16 or so. I will look at changing this but didn't want the user to be able to swoop in and sign a nice value FA before the AI teams made their way to him (they go for the top players first).

If you guys do hit any issues, post them on the tech support board and I will fixed them ASAP. If possible try to send me a save game if it can be reproduced there.

Finally, to the fake FG and fake punts, I stated in a chat two months ago they wouldn't be in the release. When doing a first version game, you don't want to take on too much or you will never get completed. And, given their rare occurances in football, I didn't think it was worth the time to punt in fakes off the bat.

Thanks,

Arlie

Arlie, thanks for the post. You've got the makings of a fine football game here and I hope Ic an help you guys spot some bugs and stuff.

I totally understand about the fake punts and fake field goals, it would be nice to have down the road, but there are other issues that are way more important than this one.

I was wondering if you guys have looked into adding wheel mouse support? That would be very handy in scrolling through rosters, FA's, etc.

[sabotai]

Nit-Picking here: On the View Coaching Staff screen, why is there a scroll bar?

[VPI97]

Originally posted by sabotai
The interface is really starting to kill me. It takes much longer than it should to do different things. That's my #1 issue with the game right now. Bugs are bugs and some are going to be out there in an initial release, but this interface is like torture. It took me 10 times longer to do basic roster management in TPF than it does in FOF...and since my style of play is to micromanage, that resulted in 3-4 hours of game time before I even got to Week 1 of the regular season (where the game crashed, of course).

[Tasan]

Okay I haven't bought the game yet, but I installed it at first thinking there was a Trial period already. Well, being that there isn't one, I decided to go ahead and look at some of the .dat files, as I think Arlie mentioned you could do in access. Wow. config.dat has a ton of stuff you could modify, and most of it is headed really well to know what you are messing with. For any modders/tinkerers, I strongly suggest digging around in there and seeing if you find something to tinker with.

[Sidhe]

I'm getting a complete shutdown crash (is there an acronym for this? You know, when the computer just shuts off?) that is not related to my processor overheating. I've had that with MTW:VI (a very graphics intensive game) and you could feel the heat coming off the keys palpably before the crash. That doesn't happen here.

Sometime between pick 9 & pick 20, bang. Straight to black.

Is it possible that a player who gets picked in this range can cause the crash?

[Godzilla Blitz]

If anyone's there yet, I'd be very interested to hear comments about the AI with respect to roster management, trading, and drafting.

[Richards]

Originally posted by ScottVib
I'm a little unclear, when you searched did you use the Player Database under the GM Office? (Also accessible via Ctrl+B) Did they show up here?

Nope, not in player database or FA list. Only under the database listed under the "tools" menu. And there, they were not listed in the FA pool, but rather in the "incoming draft" list (not sure the exact name, I'm at work. )

I simmed ahead to see if the players would come back, but I got the dreaded "91" error :) during the game. I was pausing several time, and switching back and forth between other apps. Not sure if that had anything to do with it.

Under Win XP 512ram sp1a if that matters.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
If anyone's there yet, I'd be very interested to hear comments about the AI with respect to roster management, trading, and drafting.

Was just getting ready to fire it up and check these out. I did post earlier that trade AI with picks is a bit spotty, the CPU will not trade you two 1st round picks from what I've seen. I think that's good, stockpiling 1st rounders in FOF was an easy way to cheat.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Ragone
Whats up with only one week of coach contract offering?

:)

Yeah, I think this needs to be tweaked. IT should be like in CM where a coach can be fired/hired at almost any point...it should be like that in TPF, too. One week is def. not enough...and that little slider to select a salary is tough to use.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
If anyone's there yet, I'd be very interested to hear comments about the AI with respect to roster management, trading, and drafting.

I just simmed a few seasons to keep an eye on how teams draft. I looks real good. Almost every team has at least its 1st rounder starting, a handful have a 2nd rounder, and there is a few with a 3rd starter coming out of that years draft. There were 2 teams with Undrafted freeagents starting at CB and WR. The lowest drafted starter I saw was a 5th rounder.

To summarize, the teams draft need very well. The highest non-starter drafted was at #9 and he was a QB. When drafting there is a list of each teams biggest needs by position on the board and Syd Nyquist doesn't shy away from blasting a team that goes away from their board.

Going to check free agency a bit later.

[The_herd]

Messed around a bit with trading just now, the problem with it seems to be when you offer up superstar players. The CPU will give away just about anything to get a 4.5-5.0 star player. For example, I just offered a 5* OLB to New Orleans for 1st through 5th round picks and they were fine with it. I then took the 1st rounder off the board and replaced it with their 4.5* DT with 5* potential, still ok with it. The only thing they weren't ok with was both the DT and the 1st rounder going in the same deal for my OLB.

The CPU also doesn't seem to distinguish between the value of giving away a pick from the current year and giving away a pick 2 years down the road. Not good there, the picks value should drop a little a bit for each year in the future they are.

The good news is that trades not involving star players appears to be solid. I tried like hell to give away my backup 3* QB and he wasn't generating much interest. My 3.5* starting RB could get me a 2nd round pick if I threw in a late rounder to even up the deal.

[Richards]

Originally posted by Richards
Nope, not in player database or FA list. Only under the database listed under the "tools" menu. And there, they were not listed in the FA pool, but rather in the "incoming draft" list (not sure the exact name, I'm at work. )

I simmed ahead to see if the players would come back, but I got the dreaded "91" error :) during the game. I was pausing several time, and switching back and forth between other apps. Not sure if that had anything to do with it.

Under Win XP 512ram sp1a if that matters.

In response to Arlie and Scottvib, I'll repost my issues in the tech forum at .400. Also, I can mail my savegame with the missing FA's. I probably also have a savegame back in week 12 or 13 with the bidded on Undrafted rookies that ignored my bids, if you want to recreate this.


I agree that it should not be easy to swoop down on FA's, and I don't mind that they waited 8 weeks for other offers, but none came. These are 1 - 1.5 star players. I can see how a vet FA might say, hey, I'll try my chances that something better will come, but I'd imagine that an undrafted rookie wouldn't still hold out after 8 weeks, no matter who his agent is :)

[Balldog]

1. RB Dan Hubbard. He is projected to go in the second round. Based on our research, we grade him as a not projected in draft pool value.

WTF.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by The_herd
I just simmed a few seasons to keep an eye on how teams draft. I looks real good. Almost every team has at least its 1st rounder starting, a handful have a 2nd rounder, and there is a few with a 3rd starter coming out of that years draft. There were 2 teams with Undrafted freeagents starting at CB and WR. The lowest drafted starter I saw was a 5th rounder.

To summarize, the teams draft need very well. The highest non-starter drafted was at #9 and he was a QB. When drafting there is a list of each teams biggest needs by position on the board and Syd Nyquist doesn't shy away from blasting a team that goes away from their board. Some beta tester must have spent a lot of time with that draft, huh? ;)

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Balldog
WTF. Put dashes in. "not-projected-in-draft-pool" value.

[PSUColonel1]

I have run accross a serious bug. I installed, and when I am presented, I click onto create league, and everytime the game crashes with a runtime error 91. This is obviously very serious (at least from where I'm sitting anyway)

[Tasan]

I think his WTF might be in reference to it saying he's a second round projection, then it saying your guys say he shouldn't even be drafted....

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Tasan
I think his WTF might be in reference to it saying he's a second round projection, then it saying your guys say he shouldn't even be drafted.... There is a significant chunk of scout variance in this game. This could be a result of two sets of circumstances:

1. He set his scout budget very high, and his scout realized that this kid is gonna be a bust.

2. He set his scout budget very low, and his scout doesn't have a clue.

From my experience with the draft, I'd guess that option 1 is the case.

[Tasan]

Isn't that a REAL wide variance though? From 2nd round to out of the draft? If this is a one off type thing it would be okay I guess, but if this is the norm, it is a problem.

[Balldog]

I got a A+ grade in my first draft, now when do I get to sign these guys?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Tasan
Isn't that a REAL wide variance though? From 2nd round to out of the draft? If this is a one off type thing it would be okay I guess, but if this is the norm, it is a problem. It isn't the "norm." Even if you put as much money as possible into scouting, you may not always identify a bust....but sometimes you do.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by SkyDog
It isn't the "norm." Even if you put as much money as possible into scouting, you may not always identify a bust....but sometimes you do.


I don't know if it's the norm, but I bet you there were teams that wouldn't have taken someone like Ron Dayne if it was the 12th round. I wouldn't have, and all I have is a TV. :)

[ScottVib]

Originally posted by Balldog
I got a A+ grade in my first draft, now when do I get to sign these guys?

Go to your roster, click on the guys names and negotiate a salary.

[Balldog]

I have an issue with this, why can I not call my own timeouts? I have the ball at my six yard line with 10 seconds left all I want to do is run out the clock and the AI calls a timeout for me after I run the ball.

EDIT: This was at halftime by the way.

[Tasan]

Thats got to be an AI flaw there, especially since you can't call your own.

[Balldog]

Originally posted by ScottVib
Go to your roster, click on the guys names and negotiate a salary.

Why do they sometimes accept my offer but I have no way of knowing? Shouldn't a box come up that says we accept.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Tasan
I think his WTF might be in reference to it saying he's a second round projection, then it saying your guys say he shouldn't even be drafted....

I dont see that as a problem. That stuff happens in real life all the time.

[ScottVib]

Originally posted by Balldog
Why do they sometimes accept my offer but I have no way of knowing? Shouldn't a box come up that says we accept.

A box should come up that says we think this is a fair offer and we accept if you submit an acceptable offer. Also after you sign them the agents comment will say that they aren't interested in renegotiating their contract.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by ScottVib
A box should come up that says we think this is a fair offer and we accept if you submit an acceptable offer. Also after you sign them the agents comment will say that they aren't interested in renegotiating their contract.

The 1st time I offered a contract to a player and he accepted I got no comment box. I commented on it earlier in this thread, but I haven't seen it since.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by ScottVib
A box should come up that says we think this is a fair offer and we accept if you submit an acceptable offer. Also after you sign them the agents comment will say that they aren't interested in renegotiating their contract. I'm fairly sure that sometimes the box doesn't come up.

[Sidhe]

Scott sometimes the "fair offer" message didn't pop up. It's a little thing, but someone should know.

Also, I'm getting absolutely no play on my shutdown problem over on the tech boards. I have only had XP for a little under a year, but it seems I remember someone saying these shutdowns happen in XP for a reason, but now I can't remember anything else about it.

Does this ring a bell with anyone?

[Ben E Lou]

Heh. Poor Scott. Three people correcting him at one time.

Thanks for being over here Scott! Seriously.

[Balldog]

Well I am thinking this game is pretty much useless to me until we get real rosters.........hopefully Erich is done soon.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Balldog
Well I am thinking this game is pretty much useless to me until we get real rosters.........hopefully Erich is done soon.

I dont want to say useless...but its really tough for me to hit the ground running w/o a frame of reference, if you will...I.E. if I'm the Chargers, I know I need D. If I'm the Raiders, I know I need to get youngers...

[Balldog]

Maybe useless was a little strong but not knowing any players makes it hard to call plays.

[The_herd]

Very small question for Arlie or Joe:

Would it be possible to make the current week highlighted yellow (or some other color) on the Season Schedule NAV bar?

Also, It would be great to have the human controlled team highlighted on the schedule as well.

[FloridaFringe]

Originally posted by rexallllsc
I dont want to say useless...but its really tough for me to hit the ground running w/o a frame of reference, if you will...I.E. if I'm the Chargers, I know I need D. If I'm the Raiders, I know I need to get youngers...

Many others probably feel the same way. However, try to consider the lack of foreknowledge as an added handicap against you. This should make the game more difficult and challenging, therefore more satisfying once you accomplish your goals successfully. Just a though.

[rexallllsc]

One thing I can say for certain...very promising for a first-gen release.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Heh. Poor Scott. Three people correcting him at one time.

Thanks for being over here Scott! Seriously.

Yea, that would help me get into the game much more as well.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Tasan
Isn't that a REAL wide variance though? From 2nd round to out of the draft? If this is a one off type thing it would be okay I guess, but if this is the norm, it is a problem.

Kelly Campbell?

[Tasan]

I KNEW someone would finally bring him up ;- )

Thats why I wanted to know if it happened all the time or just one offs, like him. There are usually one or two of these guys in drafts, but not a whole slew of them.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally posted by Tasan
I think his WTF might be in reference to it saying he's a second round projection, then it saying your guys say he shouldn't even be drafted....

Things like this do happen, but mostly because they're perceived as being head cases or poor fits for the offense/defense.

The wording in the example given above was poor; I would say something like this: "He is projected to be drafted sometime in the second round, but we do not recommend taking him because..."

[damnMikeBrown]

Well if this isn't a work of frustration. . .

Won't let me advance to week 21 of FA because my draft picks aren't signed. Hello, they are. Oh fun. Not that it didn't take freaking 2 hours to figure out how to do it. Nice and non-intuitive.

The point that is really annoying though, is the help system. I download a 54meg game, and they put the help files on-line? WTF? That is -not- helpfull.

[Karim]

Ok, my initial review after "playing" for about 5 hours 'till 3:30 a.m....

1) The offseason coaching hiring/firing is only 1 week, which sucks. I couldn't find out any way to fire my offensive coordinator so I assumed I simply have to make an offer to another OC and if he accepts, my current OC will be replaced. I make an offer and get no message as to what happened when I proceed to the next week.

2) I haven't been able to simulate a game because of what I think is an incorrect # of each position player. It tells me "there is a problem with the FB", but doesn't tell me what. I sign another FB, go through the auto depth-chart and try and sim. Now there's a problem with the WR, etc., etc. It would be nice if the manual or pop-up window would just say "You need 2FB, 6 WR, etc., etc.". I now only have 3 OG and there are no offensive linemen available in free agency so I don't know how to proceed.

3) The active/inactive roster screen is useless since it is ordered by jersey # instead of position. I inevitably need to write down who is going to be inactive or flip back and forth between screens.

4) You don't always get notified that your contract offer has been accepted. I get a little "flash" of the screen sometimes with the updated contract info in the player profile but not always a pop-up window.

5) Free agency needs some work. We really need to be notified that a free agent we bid on has signed with another team. I waited around without realizing the player I wanted had signed weeks earlier with another team. I offered a 26 year old QB a 3 year deal, fairly decent signing bonus, with a guaranteed starting promise. Year 1 was over $1 million and it went up from there. He signed with Cleveland for $650k on a 1 year deal and wasn't going to see the field. This was really frustrating.

6) I love the draft. This is easily the best part of the game for me so far. I only wish the lowest speed setting was a little slower. Also, the start/pause/resume doesn't always show up.

7) I can't execute a trade for whatever reason. Again, the manual is no help here. Does the thermometer have to go up a certain level before the "offer trade" button lights up? I kept on clicking on that thing and nothing happened.

Luckily, I have no stability issues.

This game has a lot of potential and is quite impressive considering it's a first release. A couple patches in and this will be a solid game all the way around.

Now if I could only sim a game...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Karim
Ok, my initial review after "playing" for about 5 hours 'till 3:30 a.m....

1) The offseason coaching hiring/firing is only 1 week, which sucks. I couldn't find out any way to fire my offensive coordinator so I assumed I simply have to make an offer to another OC and if he accepts, my current OC will be replaced. I make an offer and get no message as to what happened when I proceed to the next week.

2) I haven't been able to simulate a game because of what I think is an incorrect # of each position player. It tells me "there is a problem with the FB", but doesn't tell me what. I sign another FB, go through the auto depth-chart and try and sim. Now there's a problem with the WR, etc., etc. It would be nice if the manual or pop-up window would just say "You need 2FB, 6 WR, etc., etc.". I now only have 3 OG and there are no offensive linemen available in free agency so I don't know how to proceed.

3) The active/inactive roster screen is useless since it is ordered by jersey # instead of position. I inevitably need to write down who is going to be inactive or flip back and forth between screens.

4) You don't always get notified that your contract offer has been accepted. I get a little "flash" of the screen sometimes with the updated contract info in the player profile but not always a pop-up window.

5) Free agency needs some work. We really need to be notified that a free agent we bid on has signed with another team. I waited around without realizing the player I wanted had signed weeks earlier with another team. I offered a 26 year old QB a 3 year deal, fairly decent signing bonus, with a guaranteed starting promise. Year 1 was over $1 million and it went up from there. He signed with Cleveland for $650k on a 1 year deal and wasn't going to see the field. This was really frustrating.

6) I love the draft. This is easily the best part of the game for me so far. I only wish the lowest speed setting was a little slower. Also, the start/pause/resume doesn't always show up.

7) I can't execute a trade for whatever reason. Again, the manual is no help here. Does the thermometer have to go up a certain level before the "offer trade" button lights up? I kept on clicking on that thing and nothing happened.

Luckily, I have no stability issues.

This game has a lot of potential and is quite impressive considering it's a first release. A couple patches in and this will be a solid game all the way around.

Now if I could only sim a game... 1. Agreed. I don't think they'd add another week or two to the offseason. If that is the case, I, for one, am going to be pushing and prodding for the option to do secondary and tertiary offers during Week 1. It stinks to have to play out your very first season with a horrid coaching staff because you only had one shot.

2. I think that will be an early patch issue.

3. I've suggested to Arlie, and he seems enthused about the idea, that on the "Offensive Roster--Ratings" and "Defensive Roster--Ratings" screens (Ctrl-O and Ctrl-Y), to be able to right click on a player, and a little mini-menu comes up: "Activate/Deactivate/Release/Negotiate". If something like that could happen, I think a large chunk of the interface issues are gone. Those two screens have just about all the info you need to make the active/inactive decision, so why not have the option to do it from there?

4. Arlie's been made aware of that.

5. Haven't seen that yet, or heard about it. You might want to make sure Arlie knows that.

6. Someone must have really spent a lot of time making suggestions to Arlie to get that part of the game right, huh? I sense real genius at work in that part of the game. ;)

I've mentioned that pesky little button to Arlie, but I'm not sure there's rhyme or reason as to when it doesn't work. It is the there the vast majority of the time for me, and I've yet to be able to say specifically, "If you do x, y, then z, the start/pause/resume button no longer works." Without that, it makes it hard for him to trace. If you can come up with a pattern, PLEASE let him know.

7. I think the thermometer has to be almost all the way to the top. It is meant to be a visual guage of how amenable to the offer the other team is.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by damnMikeBrown

The point that is really annoying though, is the help system. I download a 54meg game, and they put the help files on-line? WTF? That is -not- helpfull.

That's likely a problem with your install. The exact same "manual" is included in the tpf\help directory and is accessable through the help\contents menu option.

Now, it's not exactly a good manual or anything I'll agree with you there but it's not only accessable online.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by SkyDog


3. I've suggested to Arlie, and he seems enthused about the idea, that on the "Offensive Roster--Ratings" and "Defensive Roster--Ratings" screens (Ctrl-O and Ctrl-Y), to be able to right click on a player, and a little mini-menu comes up: "Activate/Deactivate/Release/Negotiate". If something like that could happen, I think a large chunk of the interface issues are gone. Those two screens have just about all the info you need to make the active/inactive decision, so why not have the option to do it from there?


What I was thinking would really make a nice right click option for the free agent and draft screens would be if the game would show you a mini depth chart of your palyers at the current players position . Have it list name, experience, cap info and grade.

Especially at the beginning when deciding offers to your own free agents I have to keep going back to the roster screen because yes, even though Bubba is a 3 star fullback if he's your fourth best option you aren't going to try real hard to resign him.

Also, do you draft that stud DE if you have three young studs already at the position. Right click and you can see what your "need" is at DE. Would be super nice.

It would be nice if they could implement some nice screen specific right click options like the ones noted above.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Axxon
What I was thinking would really make a nice right click option for the free agent and draft screens would be if the game would show you a mini depth chart of your palyers at the current players position . Have it list name, experience, cap info and grade.

Especially at the beginning when deciding offers to your own free agents I have to keep going back to the roster screen because yes, even though Bubba is a 3 star fullback if he's your fourth best option you aren't going to try real hard to resign him.

Also, do you draft that stud DE if you have three young studs already at the position. Right click and you can see what your "need" is at DE. Would be super nice.

It would be nice if they could implement some nice screen specific right click options like the ones noted above. Brilliant! I'm passing this along to Arlie. In FOF and TPF, I end up having to write down a list of my position needs. My mantra in beta testing this game has been: Make it so the gamer doesn't have to spend so much time information-gathering, as decision-making. This fits right into that philosophy.

[Ben E Lou]

Arlie has posted a fix list for patch one:I should have the patch out no later that Wednesday. Here's what it will have:

Crash Fixes:

- Crash when cutting a player you gave a RFA tender offer to
- View Depth chart after trading a starter
- Start fantasy draft in offseason and begin college draft sometimes caused a crash
- Put only one player in the compare option
- Clicking Next or Previous when signing your own FAs and using UFA
negociation to get to the player card.
- Crash where moving your mouse wheel really fast on career leaders
- Rare and odd crash involving very large signing bonuses (not sure how it happened or if it really did, but I added in some logic to prevent it)
- Crash in regards to having inactive or cut players in your depth chart and trying to play week 1 (this has been a main one for many of you emailing me - an easy fix is to remove all players from your depth chart that were cut or are inactive for week 1)

Bug Fixes:

- Now able to do Signing Bonuses for rookies and vets in week 11 higher than 30K
- Make sure all offers are atleast the league minimum for that player.
- Fix plays to show when viewing the defensive play diagrams
- Fix changes to stick when editing conf names and divisions in league creation
- Display issue where kickoffs out of bounds were called touchbacks in the PBP on rare occasions
- False Start - penalty declined bug
- Repetitive hiring/firing of coaches
- 4th down penalties against the offense being declined
- PBP issue a penalty on a punt sometimes gave the ball to the opposing team on your original line of scrimmage
- Safeties should now appear in the PBP and gamelog.
- Fixed the advance scouting reports to have better value good rushing teams in its description (ie, not most teams favoring passing)
- Fixed a trade AI issue where you could get multiple good players and high picks for one Star.
- Refined general panelty accept/decline logic

Enhancements:
- You can now call timeouts in the game.
- You will now receive an email about any coach you make an offer to, regardless if he signs with you or not
- Refined the coach sign AI to be a little more fair to the human since there is only 1 week.
- You will now get an email after the undrafted FA bidding week (11) is complete detailing where each person you bid on went (or if they signed with you)
- Refined the AI in the undrafted FA period to give human players a better shot
- Marginal players will sign earlier in the FA process even if they only have one offer.
- Fixed some interface issues on things like not having the FA grid re-sort after making a bid. You will also stay in the contract screen after making a bid. This should make the week 11 undrafted FA period a little easier as you can simply sort by rating - make an offer - then click the next arrow.
- Reduced the number of Veterans asking for 6 and 7 year deals
- Changed the click in the coach bid slider to equal 25K for easier offers
- Made most of the scroll bars do a full page up or down when clicking the area above the arrows.

Let me know if I missed anything. I will try and get accepting penalties into the next update after the holidays as well.

Arlie

[The_herd]

One thing I like about the playcalling interface in FOF is the 2 minute offense box that you can check. I was wondering if it would be possible to put a "run the clock down" box that does pretty much the opposite? There is nothing more frustrating than trying to bleed the clock in the 4th quarter, running the ball 3 straight times, and not even seeing a minute go off the clock.

I only watch a game once in a blue moon, but that has been one of the experiences that are frustrating for me.

[Bee]

I blame all problems with the game on SkyDog. :D

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Karim


1) The offseason coaching hiring/firing is only 1 week, which sucks. I couldn't find out any way to fire my offensive coordinator so I assumed I simply have to make an offer to another OC and if he accepts, my current OC will be replaced. I make an offer and get no message as to what happened when I proceed to the next week.


I can understand them not wanting to add weeks to the offseason, but is there any way they could split this week up into 3 separate phases?

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by The_herd
I can understand them not wanting to add weeks to the offseason, but is there any way they could split this week up into 3 separate phases?

I just don't understand why this can't be an "anytime" acitivity. With coaches being a big part of these games, they are sure given little attention.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
I just don't understand why this can't be an "anytime" acitivity. With coaches being a big part of these games, they are sure given little attention.

That would be the perfect solution, however, no developer has attempted it yet, so I don't hold out much hope.

[Buckner]

I'm still very new to FOF but have really taken to its depth and its general playability. Some of you have really helped me out with some of my questions, so I guess it comes down to this for those with TPF:

Is it worth it? If you could only play 1 game would it be FOF or TPF? Assuming the above patch stuff is fixed, which is the better game? I know it's still maybe too early to tell but hey.. :) That sure is a long patch list for a game that's been out a few days, though. Makes you wonder (and makes me fear) that the deeper you go the more you'll uncover that needs fixing. I'm very leery about buying TPF because I felt .400 Software's College Basketball game was atrocious despite a good first impression and I don't want to get burned again.

A few questions that I have not read addressed here:

-How's the Sim Engine? This was the killer in their college hoop game. Do you see solid stats or are there any that stand out as bizarro-world? Leading rushers, passers, sack leaders, etc all look within reason?

-Anyone messed with the multiplayer stuff? (I assume there is MP stuff..). Easy to set up?

-Have any FAs priced themselves out of the market? Do the top shelf FAs all sign believable contracts?

-How's the in-game CPU playcalling AI?

-Finally how's player progression? Any late round picks turning into solid players? Any first round picks busting?

thanks guys,
Mike

[Wasabiak]

I just finished my first rookie draft.............I got an F! :(

However, the team owner is a tight ass, so i had to pull a few people off the street to do my scouting for me (like the shopping cart guy in Big Daddy). I suspect that has something to do with it. I'm really having fun with this game. A patch or 2 to tweak a few things, and we'll have ourselves a very nice football sim.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
I just don't understand why this can't be an "anytime" acitivity. With coaches being a big part of these games, they are sure given little attention.

Speaking as a guy who once cut a player in CM during halftime I must agree with you. BTW, that is indeed my dearest memory in any game ever.

This guy was a million pound signing whose favorite number must have been 5 as he sure as heck kept getting them.

On the game in question we weren't doing well but it certainly wasn't all his fault but I saw one five too many and not only did I boot his butt I didn't let him ride the team bus back home.

That felt SOOOO good and the team didn't even get upset. Some things just need doing. :)

[yabanci]

Originally posted by Buckner
I'm still very new to FOF but have really taken to its depth and its general playability. Some of you have really helped me out with some of my questions, so I guess it comes down to this for those with TPF:

Is it worth it? If you could only play 1 game would it be FOF or TPF? Assuming the above patch stuff is fixed, which is the better game? I know it's still maybe too early to tell but hey.. :) That sure is a long patch list for a game that's been out a few days, though. Makes you wonder (and makes me fear) that the deeper you go the more you'll uncover that needs fixing. I'm very leery about buying TPF because I felt .400 Software's College Basketball game was atrocious despite a good first impression and I don't want to get burned again.

A few questions that I have not read addressed here:

-How's the Sim Engine? This was the killer in their college hoop game. Do you see solid stats or are there any that stand out as bizarro-world? Leading rushers, passers, sack leaders, etc all look within reason?

-Anyone messed with the multiplayer stuff? (I assume there is MP stuff..). Easy to set up?

-Have any FAs priced themselves out of the market? Do the top shelf FAs all sign believable contracts?

-How's the in-game CPU playcalling AI?

-Finally how's player progression? Any late round picks turning into solid players? Any first round picks busting?

thanks guys,
Mike

I bought TPF, but I shelved it until it's patched up. I have a feeling I'm going to end up leaning toward TPF, because I like to sim slowly, watching the play-by-play of my games and even other big games each week. Since FOF's pbp is so sparse, I think TPF will be better suited to my style of play. I haven't played TPF enough answer the questions.

[The_herd]

Is it worth it?

If you're looking for a game that runs fine with no problems, then no, not yet. If you are looking for a sim that has a lot of potential and is almost guaranteed to get patched into shape very quickly, then yes. I suggestion is hold off until people can get a feel for things after that patch, which is due out today.

-How's the Sim Engine? This was the killer in their college hoop game. Do you see solid stats or are there any that stand out as bizarro-world? Leading rushers, passers, sack leaders, etc all look within reason?

The stats are off, some people are posting some stuff over at .400 showing that they aren't off, but that's BS. The rushing totals are up, passing stats are a bit off, and a few other things. However, Arlie does know about this and they will probably be addressed in patch 2.

-Anyone messed with the multiplayer stuff? (I assume there is MP stuff..). Easy to set up?

There is MP, but I think most are waiting for a patch or 2 to get started with it.

-Have any FAs priced themselves out of the market? Do the top shelf FAs all sign believable contracts?

From my experiences so far, FA prices are pretty good. I haven't seen an unbelievable contract yet. My backups are also asking backup money. And as I've mentioned several times already, I really think contract negotiations is the best I've seen in any game.

-How's the in-game CPU playcalling AI?

The CPU's playcalling is ok, its had some questionable moments in the couple game's that I've watched, but its fairly good overall. I would suggest simming right now instead of watching because there are some other glitches with games when you watch them right now.


-Finally how's player progression? Any late round picks turning into solid players? Any first round picks busting

Although its too early for me to really get a good feel for this yet, I think its ok. QBs are too good right out of college is the only glaring thing I've seen. There are definately Booms and Busts in the draft, but I can't tell you if there are too many/few yet.

[MizzouRah]

From my experiences so far, FA prices are pretty good. I haven't seen an unbelievable contract yet. My backups are also asking backup money. And as I've mentioned several times already, I really think contract negotiations is the best I've seen in any game


Really? Wow, this game might get looked at yet. :)

Of course until there are onside kicks, two point conversions, etc... I don't think I'll buy the game just yet.


Todd

[Karim]

Yeah, contract negotiations are really well done, with a whole host of personal incentives. You're never stuck wondering "what does he want?" as there's constant feedback. Cap room and bonus money available is always there and dynamically changes so you know what you have to work with.

It is really well done.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally posted by MizzouRah
Of course until there are onside kicks, two point conversions, etc... I don't think I'll buy the game just yet.


Todd

I thought it was just fake punts and field goals that didn't make it in. There are really no onside kicks or 2 pointers yet?

[RedKingGold]

Yes, there are no onside kicks or 2 pointers, meaning if you are down by 8 with less than 2 minutes to go, you are literally screwed (even if you score a touchdown)

This (and the penalty problems) are the major reason why I'm going to hold off playing TPF until it is more patched

Its sad, 400 studios did avoid the TDCB debacle, but between the flame wars on the boards and outright glaring omissions, TPF ain't to far off

[Buckner]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm still in the dark about some stuff though as to how TPF pertains to FoF. Why does TPF have more "potential"? What is it about TPF that makes some of you feel it'll be better than FoF when fully patched? Is it just the play by play? The graphics? Is there more detail (FoF seems pretty detailed to me, granted I'm still learning.) Sorry for all the questions but since there's no demo...

But yeah the game is a definte "hold off" until there are 2 point attempts and onside kicks. That's a deal breaker until patched.

thanks
Mike

[Philliesfan980]

I also I agree 100% with what Mike has to say. I'd like to hear some thoughts on the situation.

[Vince]

I find it interesting that in developing a football sim, they have decided to leave out portions of the game that occur in real life (and are a relatively important part of it) in favor of the "bells and whistles."**

That being said, I like the direction they are taking with the game and am looking forward to it being patched up to the point TDCB is at. Based upon previous experience, I have no doubt they will get it there rather quickly.

** - The use of the phrase 'bells and whistles' is probably inappropriate...though I might not consider the things they focused on more than fluff (welcomed fluff, but not so important nonetheless), other people might be tremendously interested in them. So take this with a grain of salt, as it is purely my unadulterated opinion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by RedKingGold
Yes, there are no onside kicks or 2 pointers,

I haven't been following this discussion particularly, but just catching this on the last page of the thread (as of posting) ...

Please tell me you're kidding or something, they didn't really omit onside kicks AND 2 point conversions in a pro football sim.

[sabotai]

I never realized they left out onside kicks and 2 point conversions. Guess that somehow didn't make it into the feature lists...

I REALLY hope the make it into a patch.

I'm not going to go as far as get a refund if they don't. I like Arlie and Joe, and want to support them. But I doubt TPF will get much playing time with those kinds of things missing. (And I doubt anymore sims will be bought from them if similar omissions occur in future sims).

[The_herd]

Originally posted by sabotai
I never realized they left out onside kicks and 2 point conversions. Guess that somehow didn't make it into the feature lists...

I REALLY hope the make it into a patch.

I'm not going to go as far as get a refund if they don't. I like Arlie and Joe, and want to support them. But I doubt TPF will get much playing time with those kinds of things missing. (And I doubt anymore sims will be bought from them if similar omissions occur in future sims).

I'm pretty certain he said they would be in a patch soon.

[Vince]

Yeah, I do remember hearing them say it is just a matter of time before those are implemented...but still.

[FargoFreez aka fof playa]

Some of the things lacking in TPF almost make field goals look like a "Top Feature".

They're included, right? :)

[Karim]

Well, I can't play anymore. The patch has created a whole slew of new problems that weren't there initially. I've posted a running list at the .400 boards but in summary:

- can't extend contract length when negotiating
- free agents' ratings are different when clicked on than when scrolling
- draft no longer works and causes a crash

<sigh>

[Buckner]

sigh, thanks Karim. You are saving me $

[LloydLungs]

The idea that 2-pt conversions and onside kicks (not to mention fake punts/kicks) are considered "features" is a problem to begin with. It's not far off from leaving three-pointers out of a basketball sim or bunts out of a baseball sim.

It simply is not football until they are added.

[Bee]

Originally posted by Karim
Well, I can't play anymore. The patch has created a whole slew of new problems that weren't there initially. I've posted a running list at the .400 boards but in summary:

- can't extend contract length when negotiating
- free agents' ratings are different when clicked on than when scrolling
- draft no longer works and causes a crash

<sigh>

Ouch! Looks like I'll be waiting a while longer before getting the game.

[sabotai]

Originally posted by LloydLungs
The idea that 2-pt conversions and onside kicks (not to mention fake punts/kicks) are considered "features" is a problem to begin with. It's not far off from leaving three-pointers out of a basketball sim or bunts out of a baseball sim.

It simply is not football until they are added.

Yeah, I sometimes laugh at the "feature lists" I see from developers. Most of them are "Duh! You have to have that!" things.

[yabanci]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Please tell me you're kidding or something, they didn't really omit onside kicks AND 2 point conversions in a pro football sim.


Is it safe to assume that overtime is included?

[Antmeister]

A lot of people are surprised by this. Originally there weren't even timeouts in the game either. As it stands now, there are no 2 pt conversions, no onside kicks, no fake fields and no fake punts. So if you are trying to make any attempt at a comeback, it is very difficult to do so (if not nearly impossible).

[sabotai]

A lot of people are surprised by this. Originally there weren't even timeouts in the game either.

I hope Arlie is reading this.....THAT'S FREAKING INSANE!

[Antmeister]

Originally posted by sabotai
I hope Arlie is reading this.....THAT'S FREAKING INSANE!

Well as a GM game, I happen to like the game, but if you have any wishes to be a coach, it is fairly limited.

The timeouts only came out with this patch and there is still no in-game substitutions either.

Now if this were strictly a GM game, I would be fine with that, but you are automatically given the title of head coach and GM. You can't hire your own head coach.

If you simulate the game, you are doing so with you as a coach and if you suck, the owner will fire you even if you never coached one game.

[General Mike]

Sounds like a certain group of people didnt do their job *wink wink nudge nudge*

[Antmeister]

Originally posted by General Mike
Sounds like a certain group of people didnt do their job *wink wink nudge nudge*

Heh, I think the problem is that some of the beta testers are not really interested in coaching and possibly didn't look too closely at the features. Just my opinion, of course.

[General Mike]

Originally posted by Antmeister71
Heh, I think the problem is that some of the beta testers are not really interested in coaching and possibly didn't look too closely at the features. Just my opinion, of course.

I agree. I think that stuff like the lack of timeouts/ onside kicks/ penalties would have been reported in beta testing if people were really focused on the play by play. If the beta testers pointed it out to Arlie before the game was released and he ignored them than thats something, but I don't think thats what happened.

I realize .400 studios games are far from perfect on release which is why I'm holding off on buying TPF, but I hold off on buying most games i play (mainly video games) until I've given them a rental. I played the demo of TPBasketball, and I enjoyed it, but there were certain things that kept me from buying it, such as the IR bug. If there was a demo of TPF available right now, it would probably be the same way for me, but once it gets straightened out it sounds like it has alot of potential and should be a good game.

[astralhaze]

Originally posted by General Mike
I agree. I think that stuff like the lack of timeouts/ onside kicks/ penalties would have been reported in beta testing if people were really focused on the play by play. If the beta testers pointed it out to Arlie before the game was released and he ignored them than thats something, but I don't think thats what happened.


From Mr. Rahn:

"In a first version of the game, you have to make certain decisions. We did a chat months ago where we said that fake punts and FGs would not be in the initial release.

I have also stated that onside kicks and 2-points will be added in a future patch. Plus, I refined the penalty logic in this 1.1 patch and added in the ability to rest your starters for this first patch. My feeling was with the ability to set as detailed a depth chart as you can in TPF and still have the ability to rest starters (ie, play younger players or backups when the game is out of hand) was enough for this release from a substitution standpoint. I will, as always, listen to the community on this as well."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by yabanci Is it safe to assume that overtime is included?

Judging strictly by what I've read in this thread ... I wouldn't feel safe to assume anything other than several patches in the future.

[Easy Mac]

FOF fanboy :p

[Buckner]

I have to ask...what does the fact that it's a first release have to do with it? It's not like .400 Software is pressured by retail chains for shelf space and time limits. Onside kicks and 2 pt conversions should have been in the game from the get go. That it is to be patched is great, but the "hey this is a first release" excuse is lame. A text sim needs to have ALL of the basics covered from the start and onside kicks are 2 pt conversions are pretty darn basic. Until said patch is released TPF cannot be considered a serious football simulation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by General Mike
Sounds like a certain group of people didnt do their job *wink wink nudge nudge*

I've got zero idea what the current .400 beta process is like, so please consider this as an observation in very general terms --

Having been through another sports sim beta project in the past, unless there's an admission from one side or the other, I don't believe you can safely assume anything about what a beta team didn't mention vs what a developer didn't do/fix/change.

That beta experience was easily, without any hesitation, the single most frustrating project I've ever been a part of, professional or amateur, paid or volunteer.
Just .02 worth

[General Mike]

Am I the only one who missed this in the last hour?

From Arlie:

"Guys, somehow I had some version control issues and uploaded the wrong EXE for the patch. I'm not sure how it happened, but I just downloaded the patch and got consistent crashes in week 1. I couldn't even sim a game. I tried my EXE that I had earmarked for the patch and it worked fine for week 1.

Anyhow, I posted the correct EXE here and apologize to any of you that downloaded the other one and were frustrated with this error. I changed the link in the announcement message to the new EXE.

Please try this new EXE and it should fix this RTE 91 in week 1 while coaching games. Also, please do not be critical of the BETA team for this. It was a mistake on my part from an uploading standpoint. The BETA team (and some of you I recruited) put a great deal of holiday time into testing this and I want to again express my appreciation and gratitude towards them.

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/redist/tpfUpdate_11.zip

Download the file above, copy the TPF.EXE file found there over your current TPF.EXE located in your main installation folder. And, if you have any stability issues with old save games I would recommend starting a new career to be safe. If you do not have a career that was started in version 1.0 with the fantasy draft beginning in the offseason, this patch may fix your old save game. But, I don't know if any lingering issues will be there. So, to be safe, you may want to start a new career. "

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/invboard/upload/index.php?showtopic=46329

ETA: the .400 studios message board clock is totally off, so who knows when it was really posted.

[Barkeep49]

I've never been such a big fan of .400's corporate spin. The party line for this seems to be "Had an ambitious features list and things had to get left out". I'm cool with that. But how can two point conversions be considered a feature? I might be willing grant onside kicks as a feature (this is a big might) and frankly don't really give a damn about fake fg/punts. I really wanted to buy this one from them and now, well, maybe after a couple patches I'll plunk down my money. I just hope that when Shaun releases his new baseball game that it follows his tradition of rock solid releases rather than the .400 sports pattern. I still am rather taken aback by the idea that 2 point conversions are features that the developer could choose to include or not include. By that logic I guess the foward pass is a feature too since a bunch of football games have been played historically with-out that too...

[HornedFrog Purple]

The forward pass is a feature! I would not be crying if it was left out. :D

[sabotai]

Blitzing is a feature. Has this been confirmed to be in the game yet? :D

[HornedFrog Purple]

Now those are fighting words.....

[Buccaneer]

[taking a break from wrapping presents]

I still don't understand this fatalistic view. Isn't TPF's strength always supposed to be in GM decision making and roster management features? Aren't the touted features the draft, free agenting, trading, depth charts, etc.? Why are you guys turning this into a coaching/pbp sim only? If you want that, why not play Madden? I realize the dream (and expectation) is to have both but I would think that hitting the quick sim button (or however you do it) works well, does it not? Yes, there are some GM stuff that doesn't work well but that's what you get for believing the PR hype and having unrealistic expectations for a 1st generation product.

[Easy Mac]

so you want it to simluate being a football GM regardless of whether it gives football results that determine your job in the game?

[Cringer]

Wow!

I know i am just echoing others but i really just have to say it.
I really wanted this game and was going to buy it over my long weekend here to play. But i don't think i can even say out loud "I am going to buy this game now," without luaghing at myself. This is really VERY dissapointing sounding. And you don';t hire head coaches because you are the head coach just irks me a little more i think. I most likely am a "FOF fanboy," but i still thought i would love this game just as much if not more if it turned out what it promised to be. I cna't see myself buying this AT ALL now. Unless some of this stuff is patched REALLY fast, otherwise i have other games i can move onto, if i can tear myself away from FOF2004. Just getting going in an online league will make that hard though.Now i just need to figure out what my "late" christmas present will be, since TPF was gonna be it.

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by Buckner
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm still in the dark about some stuff though as to how TPF pertains to FoF. Why does TPF have more "potential"? What is it about TPF that makes some of you feel it'll be better than FoF when fully patched?

To me, the main reason it has more potential is that Joe and Arlie are more willing to "listen" to we the users (as opposed to Jim) and, for better or worse, I think there is a better chance of getting "more" in the game that we want.

[Antmeister]

Ok Buccaneer, I understand your point, but the problem is that you do not have an option to be just a GM. You are forced to be both. You succeed in this game if your coach does well (which is me). You don't have an option to hire a head coach.

I am not slamming the game. I am just saying that if I have to be both roles, I should have all the options in my disposal to win. I mean why else include PBP and over 300 plays if coaching wasn't considered an important option. Why have any coaching options at all for that matter, like adding people to the inactive list or adjusting your depth charts or setting up a practice schedule. These are functions of a coach, not a GM.

[FargoFreez aka fof playa]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
To me, the main reason it has more potential is that Joe and Arlie are more willing to "listen" to we the users (as opposed to Jim) and, for better or worse, I think there is a better chance of getting "more" in the game that we want.

You should see if you could get them to rename the title of the game to "Don't even think of kicking it short on me, bitch".

[Buccaneer]

Antmeister: This gets at something that I had in back of my mind since FOF2 - if you were to set up a controlled test with coaching features vs AI coaching, would you get better results over the long run? In other words, how much does randomness or luck factor in? This is rhetorical for now.

To answer your's and mac's question, I want to know that when I fast sim, it would give me results within the range of expectations (e.g., a team loaded with superstars wouldn't go 0-16). What I don't know yet from all of these posts is whether the AI goes ahead and logs in 2pt conversions (for example), even if you can't manually call one. When I fast sim (in OOTP, FOF), I don't even bother with the logs so I don't know whether the AI tried to call any specific plays. If there are no 2pt conversions in the game at all, then that is insufficient. My point is that all football plays should be in the game, regardless if its in the pbp or not.

But seeing that there are missing features in the GM parts and trading is weak, I'm holding off until they are there. I won't go through the charade of buying, returning and buying again. So far this year, I am 0-2 on football sims and that is kinda sad.

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by FargoFreez aka fof playa
You should see if you could get them to rename the title of the game to "Don't even think of kicking it short on me, bitch".

At this point, I haven't even made it to my first regular season game. Between "figuring out what to do" and the patches, I haven't gone farther than week 12 of the first offseason.

[Antmeister]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Antmeister: This gets at something that I had in back of my mind since FOF2 - if you were to set up a controlled test with coaching features vs AI coaching, would you get better results over the long run? In other words, how much does randomness or luck factor in? This is rhetorical for now.

Well for one, there are decisions I would have made differently than the PBP that would have determined the outcome of the game. For one, you can't kneel the ball to run out the clock and you have no 2-minute offense (actually, this is not much different than earlier versions of FOF), but the thing that really gets me is that if you are behind by any number of points, you can't make an onside kick or hit that two point conversion to tie. The game log will often reflect this as well. I didn't expect the playcalling to be the most fantastic thing in the world, but leaving out some rules of the game is just wrong. Luckily this will all be addressed in the next patch.


Originally posted by Buccaneer

But seeing that there are missing features in the GM parts and trading is weak, I'm holding off until they are there. I won't go through the charade of buying, returning and buying again. So far this year, I am 0-2 on football sims and that is kinda sad.

All I have to say about this is that I am sure it will be vastly improved in 1 or 2 patches. If you just love the GM functions, this game is pretty good (in my opinion). I look forward to the draft (in which I feel more involved with). The contract negotiations are nice and even trading seems good (at least with this 1st patch). Hopefully when the demo comes out, you can judge it from there.

[Axxon]

One question just came to mind about the no onsides kicks and no 2 pt plays. Since they were planning to add these features soon but didn't have time for the release, why not just be upfront and tell people that these features were missing but would be added shortly? Anybody, like me ( though I never expressed such on any board btw ), who was impatient and wanted to play the game asap could order now but those who didn't mind waiting wouldn't be broadsided by the issue.

Seems like it would have cut down on some of the criticism. Well, probably not but the criticizers couldn't say that they bought the game expecting it to be there like they are saying now anyway.

[HornedFrog Purple]

I am really not being critical, I am just surprised that they weren't included. But I agree something on the website saying "coming soon" would have been appropriate. That was one of the minor gripes with Tournament Dreams concerning the multiplayer aspect not in the game yet. But there were more immediate problems obviously at the time.

This sim has been in development for quite a while and it just surprised me that's all.

[TroyF]

I read bits and snippets of the thread. . . and then I got to this last page and had a heart attack.

No two point conversions or onside kicks? I can live without the fake kicks, but the other two can have a direct impact on your game.

I'm glad I held off. I'm now wondering how well they'll be put into place when they are put in the game. Will the AI try for 2 in the correct situations? Will it use a blanket chart to determine when to go for 2 and do it too early in the game?

As has been said, these things aren't features. These are important facets of an NFL game. Things that even as GM will come into play and bother me to no end.

I'll probably buy the game at some point down the road, but I have to say this would be considered a game killer for me.

Thank goodness I'm having so much fun with FOF. Yep, I'm a fanboy.

[damnMikeBrown]

Don't worry about the 2pt conversions & fake kicks. The game is completely unplayable now for me. The "patch" 1.1 has introduced a here to fore, rarely seen 91 error. It now occurs like clockwork every time I try so sim week 1. I used both the first 1.1 patch, and the second 1.1 "patch".

At least it's gotten me back into playing SWG. Wow, a football sim has made me appreciate SOE. . . damn. . .

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Antmeister71
Heh, I think the problem is that some of the beta testers are not really interested in coaching and possibly didn't look too closely at the features. Just my opinion, of course. .400 did an excellent job of getting a balanced group of beta testers with different game interests. The people who were taking a hard look at PBP were people very interested in PBP. I'll assure you of that.